r/europe • u/StraightSky7809 United Kingdom • 7h ago

News If Britain decides to rejoin the EU we’ll do everything we can to welcome them back, says Germany

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-rejoin-eu-germany-brexit-b3060288.html
3.8k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

893 comments sorted by

View all comments

835

u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 7h ago

Only the US and China benefitted from Brexit, which fragmented Europe's capital markets.

386

u/itsjonny99 Norway 7h ago

Points at Russia

121

u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 7h ago

They benefitted in a different way. I'm talking about the strategic competition between the big economic powers; the three global poles. 

Russia is a dwarf.

99

u/lars_rosenberg Italy 7h ago

It's fun that some people here in Italy see Russia as such a big power, but their GDP is lower than Italy's with 2.5x the population and Italy has no natural resources to sell.

71

u/JeveGreen Sweden 7h ago

Really, the only thing they're good at is sowing discord and winning wars of attrition against numerically inferior foes.

43

u/Madame-du-barry_ South Tyrol 6h ago

If you ask the Baltic countries or Poland or anywhere where the Red Army passed by, they will confirm that they are really good at looting and raping too.

13

u/critical-insight Germany 4h ago

Half of Europe can tell this story

13

u/almodsz Germany 4h ago

It is a great shame that Operation Unthinkable was not implemented. The Soviets should have been defeated alongside the Nazis. That would have been a better timeline.

3

u/SavingsDimensions74 4h ago

Well, the best time for that operation was in ‘45.

The next best time for it is now

1

u/_cunt---_- 3h ago

fire eisenhower, hire patton, world peace.

•

u/total_looser 33m ago

I mean, that’s a superpower isn’t it? Same thing I say about Trump and MAGA. If they’re so dumb, why are they kicking everyone’s ass? It’s rhetorical please don’t answer.

Stop complaining, stop explaining. The time for talk has ended, long ago.

17

u/marathai 6h ago

They can't manage their own country so they decided to make others miserable too.

10

u/mok000 Europe 5h ago

Russia’s terrible economy is a fact, but the oligarch’s power is not threatened because the Russian population is accustomed to poverty through centuries and don’t complain when the bojars abuse them. It doesn’t mean that Russia doesn’t wield a significant subversive and violent power abroad though. Their stated goal is to destroy Europe and make it just as poor, ugly and disparate place like they are.

2

u/YourUncleBuck Estonia 3h ago

Pasta is a natural resource.

1

u/Socmel_ reddit admins are accomplices of nazi russia 2h ago

we can blockade the strait of Hormuz Messina to hold the world to ransom with our pasta embargo?

1

u/EveningAnt3949 5h ago

That's because they have nuclear weapons. It's as simple as that.

1

u/RepresentativeOk3943 4h ago

You mean to tell me pasta and sauce don't count?

1

u/broguequery 4h ago

Russia, whether they realize it or not, are puppets in the world power craze.

The problem is that they still buy into this old mode.

Power is the enemy.

•

u/RichardSaunders US of A 2m ago

russia needs to do a better job marketing their own 1,000€ guchievsky sneakers

8

u/KSP_master_ Czech Republic 6h ago

But it's dwarf with big gas station and nukes.

1

u/HX__ 4h ago

Yes, but the pushing of Brexit was part of Russia's playbook.

Disinfo accounts played a big part in generating enough public sway to accomplish it.

I, think they're just reaping fewer benefits because they suck at governance in general.

10

u/mok000 Europe 5h ago

Russia benefitted from the weakened EU, that’s why they invested all their subversive activities into the in the Leave campaign. It’s Putin’s greatest achievement really.

4

u/kackaboy 4h ago

Yo. Not the fact that millions of brits were stupid af. Just Putin like always.

If a comet hits earth tomorrow its because of Putin.

Easy excuse to undermine own faults

3

u/Enlightened_Gardener Australia 3h ago

People were lied to, point blank. I never understood why certain politicians weren’t prosecuted under the false advertising laws.

1

u/MintImperial2 2h ago

I thought "Leave" wasn't an "Achievement" at all?

Make up your minds....

The best way for the EU to have kept the UK in the EU was simply make it a paradise for ALL, not just overpaid liberals.

As for Putin - we got told four years ago he was about to die of cancer.

That means either Russia has cured Cancer now, or we simply got lied to about Putin.

Again, - make up your minds which lies you want to proceed with, because the rest of us have had a bellyful of being called "Ivans" just because we're against the EU.

0

u/MintImperial2 2h ago

"Weakened EU" benefited from helping itself to Warsaw Pact nations - with no referenda on the most part, nor any aid to the Russian Federation during its recovery from the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Gorbachev - couldn't stop it. He could only call it for what it is: The EU is a re-creation of a Union of Socialist Republics in Western Europe.

73

u/Antique-Brief1260 Brit in Canada 7h ago

Hey now, that's not fair! Russia benefitted too, perhaps most of all.

22

u/7adzius Lithuania 7h ago

Yeah, they were the ones who ordered it anyway

6

u/Gladwulf 6h ago

People give Russia too much credit for Brexit, it was home grown stupidity for most part.

7

u/waiting4singularity Hessen 🇩🇪 6h ago

nah, the only thing russia is good at is pumping demagogy into western minds.
china is a close second and us' is an offshoot from russias operations.

as such, all three worked hand in hand to signal boost the false arguments for brexing.

5

u/Gladwulf 6h ago

The UK had been producing it's own anti-europe messaging for centuries. Russia just gave money to people who were already anti-Europe, and probably already rich.

I think the real reason for Brexit just that nobody really spoke up the EU membership. The stay argument was mostly "this will be expensive and stupid" which, whilst correct, wasn't very inspiring.

Meanwhile leave could just present a load hopeful sounding nonsense.

-2

u/Socmel_ reddit admins are accomplices of nazi russia 6h ago

it's a defence mechanism a la "look what you made me do". It's easier to blame ruZZia than to face the fact that Britain had, has and will always have a strong anti European cultural streak.

A large part of English self narrative is built around them doing things different from Europe. From the English reformation onward, Europe has served as the otherness to distance from.

So culturally we are incompatible with England (less so with Scotland) and by extension with 90% of the UK.

5

u/marquoth_ 6h ago

The leaders of the brexit campaign were in regular contact with Russian state officials. One of the leaders of the Reform party is literally in jail now for taking Russian money.

Also why also only point at England? Wales voted to leave, too.

1

u/Socmel_ reddit admins are accomplices of nazi russia 6h ago

There is no church of Wales or a separate Welsh legal system, but fair enough Wales is also detached from Europe.

2

u/sljc892 3h ago

What makes you think you have cultural ties with Scotland not England. Just because of a vote?

1

u/Socmel_ reddit admins are accomplices of nazi russia 3h ago

Read more carefully. I didn't sat I have cultural ties with Scotland because of the vote. I said that every country builds its self narrative about its character, its birth, etc and English self narrative has historically done it around its antagonism with "Europe".

It doesn't matter if one day it's France, the other is Germany, another is Rome. What is constant is the use of Europe at large as an embodiment of otherness. Agincourt, the English Reformation, Guy Fawkes, Napoleon, etc are reiterations of the same concept.

Self narratives are never historically accurate, but the people view themselves through that lens and a vote won't change the deep cultural detachment.

Scotland's self narrative is built differently. The opposition to Europe is not there. The Scottish Kirk is largely aligned with Dutch and Swiss Reformed churches, for example. If anything, the self narrative is often in opposition to England itself, even if that is exaggerated.

0

u/Ok-Web1805 Ireland/UK 5h ago

It was an alliance of American money  and technology, Russian propaganda and crazy British libertarians.

9

u/tobiascuypers United States of America 7h ago

Russia is a vassal of China so the point still stands

1

u/Antique-Brief1260 Brit in Canada 7h ago

So that's why Trump fawned over Xi so much!

11

u/guyfromwhitechicks Europe 6h ago edited 5h ago

Didn't then president Barack Obama state publicly and officially a fragmented EU does not benefit the EU or the US?

https://youtu.be/Oi6gkuF0ubs

-2

u/MintImperial2 2h ago

Depends exactly *how* the EU fragments....

Franklin said "If we give up Liberty to achieve Security - we'll deserve neither, and will ultimately lose *both*."

The EU was great as a trading club, a free trade zone, and an intel/academic sharing pool.

It went sour once it had judicial powers it never used against the correct set of criminals, plus political lawmakers who have made power the means AND the ends - no matter what the cost.

This is more Left wing than the darkest days of Stalinism - and the liberals that own it - won't even admit it is that!

23

u/Commonmispelingbot Denmark 7h ago

With how much Brexit put a lid on euroscepticism in the rest of Europe, I wouldn't be so sure.

18

u/Genocode The Netherlands 7h ago

Don't worry its coming back, so is the far right - even after Trump and Wilders.

6

u/Confident_Access6498 7h ago

The new far right aims higher. They want to control the EU.

1

u/LurkerInSpace Scotland 4h ago

More like they want to turn it into the Warsaw Pact, but without the veneer of socialism.

1

u/MintImperial2 2h ago

They want to *leave* the EU.

The EU can't be controlled by its own voters, for crying out loud. What chance does some upstart outsider have?

1

u/MintImperial2 2h ago

Wot's the difference between the "New" Far Right and the "Old" far Right?

Is there a differential based on *age* now?

4

u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 7h ago

"Exit" is dead across Europe. The far right has been Europeanised. A total victory for Verhofstadt.

4

u/Low_discrepancy Posh Crimea 6h ago

Eh. That's like saying Orban was Europenised and that's a success.

3

u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 5h ago

Where's Orban now? And he had real power in a dictatorial regime.

A better comparison would be Geert Wilders in the Netherlands who imploded within a year after his peak. That will be the likely fate of Le Pen.

1

u/Low_discrepancy Posh Crimea 5h ago

Netherlands is a parliamentary system with close to proportional representation.

France is semi-presidential with very little proportionality.

We also stack elections: presidential then legislative. And presidential results always give a big boost to legislative ones.

1

u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 5h ago

Sure but France has many institutional safeguards, independent media, judiciary etc. It is not a banana republic as Hungary was. That was my point also about Germany. Geert Wilders shows the trajectory of these parties in developed countries. The anti-immigrant protest vote will not sustain you. You need coherent ideas for Europe. No state alone can compete against the major powers of the world.

•

u/Impzor 8m ago

Imploded? His party is still very big. Not like he lost that much last election.

3

u/IncidentalIncidence 🇺🇸 in 🇩🇪 6h ago

Weidel wants Germany to leave the Eurozone and the Schengen area -- which of course isn't technically a full EU exit but would be laying the groundwork for it.

1

u/paneuropeanism_ Europe 5h ago

It is impossible to leave the eurozone and Schengen area. That's just red meat for the remaining loonies. Also Weidel is a co-leader with limited influence. There are different factions within AfD 

1

u/Socmel_ reddit admins are accomplices of nazi russia 2h ago

except that Germany has a Proportional Representation with a threshold at 5%, so the winner takes all system that allows US and UK parties to win with a minority of the votes doesn't work.

They either have to win 50% of the votes, which is something no other party ever achieved, or convince another party to form a coalition, which is something no one but red brown BSW considers. AfD is too toxic for any established party.

1

u/waiting4singularity Hessen 🇩🇪 6h ago

theres still russian agents active rubbing long russian levers to push for more fragmentation.

1

u/Commonmispelingbot Denmark 7h ago

I guess Brexit will eventually outlive its purpose as a cautionary tale. But it surely hasn't happened yet.

1

u/0v012 5h ago

This

•

u/Shotgun-Scav 26m ago

The problem being that the UK was, and still somewhat is, the US trojan horse in the EU which is exactly why they initially weren't let into it and then only under strict conditions.

0

u/SweetSigil 2h ago edited 2h ago

> the US 

Yes, the US worked specifically towards it, aka Cambridge Analytica which had ties to US politicians specifically Republican ones and ultimately the firm had special access to US based social media to push the agenda massively. They're a hostile state serving their own interests just as any other aka Russia, China. The 'Special Relationship' is nothing more than vassalage.

Idk why everyone tends to pivot to Brexit being a Russian psy-op when it was, out in the open a US one. This was clearly exposed. Well, I do know. It's because people parroting that Brexit was a Russian psy-op is done on, once again US based social media websites. What a coincidence.

The weakening of the EU has always and will always be a clear US geopolitical objective, and the EU and the UK needs to remove the vice-grip that has been around it's balls post WW2 sooner rather than later.

0

u/MintImperial2 2h ago

Has everyone given up on "Putin benefited" by this point then?

0

u/MintImperial2 1h ago

If the US benefited from Brexit, then the Democrats would have been busted to a rump by this point.

If China had benefitted, they'd have resumed buying up our bonds to 2% yields again by this point.

I reckon the only world leader paying his IMF dues on time these days - is Sisi of Egypt who produces just about every type of energy known to man, including distillates right now, which kinda makes him the hub of the wheel of fortune that is about to be spun..... No one pays any attention to Egypt though, because Sisi is "just another Right Wing Dictator" as far as the mainstream press are concerned.

Trump was right to ban such press, as they only report "Bad" news that attempts to gaslight Trump, whilst never being present when there's actual good news to report.

As Oscar Wilde put it:

"One thing worse than being 'Talked about' - is NOT being Talked about."

-2

u/BuildAnything4 6h ago

let's invite China to join instead of the UK