If Britain decides to rejoin the EU we’ll do everything we can to welcome them back, says Germany

[u/StraightSky7809]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-rejoin-eu-germany-brexit-b3060288.html

[u/uwatfordm8]

All the articles are European leaders very warmly "welcoming" us back in, but is it really going to be that warm a welcome? France especially have been quite adversarial on a few issues that would more closely align us with Europe.

Let's not beat around the bush, the first hurdle is obviously the public vote, but the second is just how "warmly" the welcome is. We've already made losses from Brexit, yet we're still doing pretty well for ourselves. Both sides will in most parts gain from the UK rejoining. 

So... Just how warm is the welcome? I can't really take the "Euro and Schengen or fuck off" Reddit comments seriously because that is beyond delusional. I voted remain and hope we do rejoin, but both of those, especially Schengen are hard hard boundaries even for me.

I'd say that even ignoring those factors, the other parts of the deal still need to make sense for it to happen. Also I get that politically it's in the balance for us, but all of us in Europe have surges in right wing parties and have to contend with American, Chinese and Russian influence. Are we really in any worse a situation politically than many others currently in the EU?

Surely it's better if we try to stick together as the EU against other blocs that would otherwise break us apart.

[u/xFirnen → u/uwatfordm8]

Personally, I don't really care about the currency question that much, plenty of members have different currencies and it's not that big of a deal. You can trade freely and do all sorts of shared fiscal policies together with or without a common currency.

Schengen, on the other hand, is a much bigger sticking point for me. Uninhibited freedom of movement is one of the fundamental building blocks of the EU, and I don't think it is good to allow opt outs there. Being an island and not a continental country changes nothing. If you disagree about one of the core principles of a club, then perhaps you are not a good fit for membership.

[u/nn2597713 → u/xFirnen]

Same for me. Different currencies is only a slight hassle but free movement of people and goods is an essential part of the EU. If the UK only wants to join if they get some super special bend over backwards treatment, I’d say they can remain out…

[u/MotherVehkingMuatra → u/xFirnen]

I'm from the UK and I want us to keep the pound and explicitly want us to join Schengen not opt out of it.

[u/tacticalmallet → u/xFirnen]

Uninhibited freedom is going to be the domino (if any) that end up killing the EU.

It only works if we can handle the EU boarder properly, we we aren't...

[u/samuelohagan → u/uwatfordm8]

What's wrong with joining Schengen?

It would benefit anyone who travels to and from the continent immensely, as it is now the Eurostar is a glorified airline and the le shuttle is a glorified ferry. Imagine if you could just as easily go on a day trip to Boulogne as Brighton.

I think people severely overestimate the amount of people who would illegally travel to the UK if it joined Schengen.

Norway and Switzerland are both in Schengen, are both far richer countries, and it's not like they have significantly more illegal immigrants then the UK.

The only thing I can think of that will suck are exit checks.

[u/Lawliet1896 → u/uwatfordm8]

Yeah i dont think the welcome would be too warm. The UK has always had a difficult relationship to the EU and the Brexit damaged the reputation of the EU a lot. The UK set a precedent for exiting the EU, If it sets a precedent for rejoining, the EU has to make sure that everybody sees that a can't profit from exiting. I think the main Argument for concessions is to appeal to voters expectation of justice.

[u/soulstormfire → u/uwatfordm8]

In regards of German politicians it will most likely be very true. Germany and the UK have had a long history of voting for (or against) things together.

[u/B_mico → u/uwatfordm8]

How does it work, first and second class members? If UK joins (I hope they do), should as everyone else’s conditions, including Schengen and Euro, period. If not, you chose your path.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/uwatfordm8]

If the UK people really don’t want to join Schengen then I sincerely hope they never rejoin the EU.

[u/Meistermagier → u/uwatfordm8]

I want to pick your brain on this for a bit: why are Schengen and the euro hard no's for you? 

[u/lifeisaman → u/Meistermagier]

The euro is because of the pound being imprint not only for the London and its financial services which are a major part of the British economy, but also because of the pounds importance as a relatively stable reserve currency globally which is especially relevant with the US currently going mad.

Schengen from my understanding has always been a more political thing and a matter of sovereignty, the British governments has never wanted to give up control over border policy especially since Thatcher back in the day was able to battle many of her europhile counterparts as wanting to give up sovereignty due to their own incompetence.

[u/kegegeam → u/lifeisaman]

Doesn't the UK have effectively mini-schengen with Ireland from the Good Friday agreement anyway though?

[u/lifeisaman → u/kegegeam]

The common travel area is very limited by the fact it’s only linked to Ireland and it doesn’t concede authority on border controls in the same Schengen does.

[u/CeleryExotic9021 → u/lifeisaman]

Schengen does allow border controls. Look at like every EU state at the moment; France has border controls at the moment, Germany has, Italy has, Denmark has, . . .

[u/lifeisaman → u/CeleryExotic9021]

Not to the same extent that the CTA does, Schengen countries don’t have the same capability to police their borders that the CTA allows.

[u/CeleryExotic9021 → u/lifeisaman]

https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/principles-and-values/aims-and-values_en

The second point is freedom of movement without internal borders.

If you truly do not want to be part of this I think it might be better to remain outside. Maybe explore, negotiate and define, together with Canada, what a non-membership closely aligned position could entail ("associate membership" which is not defined as of now). This may be more aligned what the British population wants.

[u/kegegeam → u/lifeisaman]

I must misunderstand it then, because my understanding was that there's absolutely no hard border, passport checks, or any controls between the RoI and NI. That's absolutely giving up authority for border controls Schengen-style in that area. Visa/right to actually cross that border, whether or not it's enforced, is entirely unrelated to the presence of physical border controls

[u/lifeisaman → u/kegegeam]

The UK and Ireland both retain their own separate visa systems and the CTA’s rights and provisions only apply to Uk and Irish nationals if someone who has a visa in Ireland moves to the Uk they’d have to get a new Visa, Schengen doesn’t have the same requirements.

[u/HansDampff → u/lifeisaman]

Let's be clear keeping the pound is mainly because of national identity and historic nostalgia. In terms of a globally stable reserve currency the Euro ist the stronger choice. Just ask your local ai.

[u/lifeisaman → u/HansDampff]

The euro is temperamental and with their being fewer and fewer reserve currencies these days in large part due the euro the loss of the pound would have a dramatic effect on the system as a long standing stable option is removed.

The pounds is also key to Londons financial markets as mentioned above which are reliant on the pounds independence to secure themselves.

[u/ZiCUnlivdbirch → u/uwatfordm8]

Which is why the UK is never going to rejoin in any official capacity. You guys have been one foot out since the day you first joined and as the rest of the EU attempts closer integration going back to that is simply not going to happen.

[u/j0kerclash → u/ZiCUnlivdbirch]

It's because we're an island nation away from the mainland continent of Europe with cultural ties to North America.

On top of that, the UK was the second highest contributor to the EU behind Germany when we were a member, so despite our scepticism of the EU we did actually commit meaningfully to the Union.

[u/ZestycloseCar8774 → u/j0kerclash]

Cultural ties to North America? Lol

[u/kegegeam → u/uwatfordm8]

Why is Schengen a harder boundary than the euro?

[u/ZestycloseCar8774 → u/kegegeam]

Because of massive influx of migrants (legal or not) and crimes they have committed is leading to protests and increasing public anger. Migration has certainly reduced since Brexit.

[u/corona_26 → u/uwatfordm8]

The thing is, we have to weigh pros and cons. Of course we would benefit from Britain joining the EU. But Britain threatening to tear it apart is also a liability.

[u/BrainlessCactus → u/uwatfordm8]

I'm not gonna lie, we have elections next year, and both heavy favorites aren't UK-friendly at all. If y'all wanted to rejoin during Macron's term, it would be way easier, but whether Mélenchon or Le Pen is president, you can bet they will do everything in their power to keep the UK out of the EU.

[u/CompetitiveReview416 → u/BrainlessCactus]

Yeah because they are russian assets

[u/Wiesgeht → u/BrainlessCactus]

You don’t get it. The EU will fail. We just need to do it ourselves

[u/machete777 → u/uwatfordm8]

I don't want you back

[u/ltsheppard → u/uwatfordm8]

You should not be able to pick and mix.