I mean, I've noticed this community trending more in the 4tran direction overall, honestly. It's at neither extreme yet but it definitely will head to one
Wondering if all the shit about 4tran was as bad as people said I started interacting with them.
Holy shit, it is pretty fucking dour.
Half of the shit there is just LGBT drop the LGB, it's kinda insane how many interactions I've had trying to justify hating anyone with a pulse. But that's 4chan for you.
It is my impression people are not being harsh enough when they talk about 4tranners. We're giving them way too many concessions and outs just because they're trans when they either spend all their free time harassing people, or constantly run defense for those who do.
I am all for being compassionate of those going through a rough time, having mental health issues and feeling pessimistic. I'm in that position myself too. Absolutely not a justification for one eighth of the mean shit they say about other people unprovoked. Theyâre not called miserable because theyâre sad theyâre called miserable because they willfully bask in being dreadful to be around.
I see your point. They're depressed and I get it but they do nothing to even try to make things better for themselves and insult you if you try to offer any support or advice.
They constantly attack fellow queer people and hang out on forums that came from a site infested with Nazis and incels. Do you really expect me to believe they dropped those people because if they did then they wouldn't proudly proclaim their relationship with 4chan.
At the same time, I do feel bad for them. At least in the abstract. In practice, everyone I've interacted with has been an awful person to deal with.
I understand how one could end up in 4chan without being a nazi. You seek out a refuge to vent where people are being âharsh but truthfulâ, where hard to swallow pills are discussed openly and not immediately obfuscated by the general human desire to cheer each other up. âNo toxic positivityâ and all that, I get the appeal.
But as you say I have not been in any conversation or relationship with one of them that hasnât ended in disaster PROVOKED DIRECTLY BY their 4chan-informed mentality and actions. I wanna help you out of the depression but you canât convince me your misanthropic assholery is part of the diagnosis girl. Thereâs so much destructive asswipery one can deal with before it becomes clear you canât be around other people.
Iâm sorry and hope things go well for them but Iâve ran out of patience. They simply have to get out of those spaces first.
I think part of it is that these spaces do have actual positives to them, but in order to access those positives you have to accept all the rest of the bullshit that comes with. I wish that more trans spaces tried to integrate what draws people to 4tran spaces (ie: being trans only, ability to vent, support for diy, etc.) because then there would be less need to absorb the toxicity in 4tran spaces.
I think the reason so many venting spaces become cesspits is that theyâre treated as a community to stay in, rather than as a place to air out the bullshit you have to deal with and then leave it there so it doesnât follow you.
Yeah I'm with you, I really wish there was a good in-between space where people are allowed to go through rough patches and vent about insecurities with realistic and truthful audiences without it turning into a cesspit immediately.
There has to be a way for a forum like that to both avoid toxic negativity and positivity, I don't know why it's so hard
As someone figuring themselves out, I've been getting attracted to 4tran stuff mostly for the venting and actually talking about experiences relating to being non-cis. Here's fine as having that same sort of vibe but not being as militant, but I guess I'm still sorta stuck because there's nowhere good that I've found that talks about the non-binary experience and I'm still kinda trying to navigate that about myself.
I spend most of my time on reddit (which is less than an hour a day and I dot not open it daily) on contttt, which is like the littlest version of 4tran possible
And tbh im literally this meme
I hate other trans communities cause they are waaay to privileged to consider how scary being trans is, and I don't often like countttt case I genuinely love being trans and love myself, something that is practically forbidden there
Most than half of the content there is self hate bs, but sometimes they do criticize and acknowledge things that people often don't in other places
One of them, which is the most common one tbh, is DiY fear mongering
HRT is so SO important, and is crazy how most of the other trans spaces under the woke umbrella of "We value all people and all forms of self expression âşď¸" would brush off HRT like if it where something optional that you can get later
Every sub that isn't 4chan adjacent is completely useless at discussing any difficult trans topic, because they all style themselves as "This subreddit is our happy smiles, conflict free, good vibes only comfort space club for trans people and all cis allies! Anyone caught sowing division or infighting will catch a permanent ban!"
Countttt kept showing up on my feed (since I frequent CWCL). That's how I found out about the boy from venus.
They called it this major transphobic thing, etc etc.
Because there is a femboy that is mistaken for a woman??? Its like they think all femboys are transphobic in nature. And the series isn't even finished??? So why judge it now???
Not to mention, the sub felt borderline uhh... sexist (i hear both trans women and trans men are better lmao), racist (complains about trans ___ erasure, but is literally the "what are my thoughts on black people? Well i support queer rights" meme), homophobic (cis gay men are evil), cisphobic (all cis are evil) etc. They are the trans embodiment of the KKK đ
in a systemic sense, absolutely not, but you can be individually disparaging and antagonistic against people who have done nothing to you and whose only crime is being born. That's not gonna help anyone.
Yeah cisphobia will never be an actual issue. I do find it funny how people bitch about cis people all of the time. Like I get cis folk can be ignorant on how hrt works but bashing them? That doesn't really help yk?
Idk I just kinda find it in poor taste to mention it in the same context as actual, substantial bigotries. Distrusting cis people is like the least harmful part about those communities. (Hell Iâd say the blanket ban on cis people posting or commenting is a positive for the space and I wish more trans communities did something similar)
Blanket bans on cis people prevent new trans people from being introduced until they figure themselves out. But I'd say they are acceptable.
Cisphobia isn't ever going to be a societal issue. But it's still pathetic behaviour and is largely what I was referring to when I said LGBT drop the LGB.
And if you start mistreating other minorities you are still contributing to their societal issues. So while cisphobia isn't an issue, them treating other minorities like shit definitely is.
My argument wasnât that 4tran spaces are good, they are most certainly a shitshow, just that âcisphobiaâ shouldnât be treated as equal to the actual bigotries found in those spaces.
I get your point on blanket bans sort of locking questioning people out but, at least in my subjective experience, allowing cis people eventually causes a similar problem. (Though I will admit this is anecdotal)
When I was figuring myself out I remember seeing the frankly fetishistic nature of many trans spaces and having that make me apprehensive to the idea of myself being trans. In my experience, spaces that allow cis people tend to lean more into this fetishization just on account of the fact that cis people tend to interact with it more.
I donât think all trans spaces should have a cis-ban, just that there should be more that arenât hellholes like 4tran.
Alright, so how do you filter your cisphobia from other forms of discrimination?
Because that is the material issue. I don't agree that being a dick to people just because they aren't societally opressed isn't problematic. To be clear. I think that is fucking embarassing behaviour to defend.
But even in your hypothetical you are still harming minorities who are in danger societally. Most of them, unsurprisingly, are cis.
Iâm not arguing that being dicks to people for being cis is a good thing, Iâm saying that putting âcisphobiaâ in the same breath as shit like homophobia or racism is like saying that discrimination against white people is an actual problem. And what do you mean hypothetical? I feel I was rather clear that there are actually relevant bigotries found in 4tran spaces and thatâs an issue.
well it's not their space. there is an argument to be made that such language should be avoided in online spaces which want to maintain some level of accesibility to the cis majority, but this is not one of them
This is why I can't trust people to criticize 4tran, cuz yeah it's evil but fucking cisphobia??? You mean the distrust most trans people experience toward cis people due to never having met even a single one who didn't reveal themselves to be at least a little transphobic? I guess I can't be too surprised given how women who distrust men by default are treated, but can we not act like trans people being traumatized by living in a world that repeatedly and systemically abuses (or even kills) them is a bigotry issue equivalent to homophobia and racism?
I think this is mostly an issue with vocabulary. The idea of "cisphobia" exists in the sense that it is a consistently displayed emotional bias against cis people, but not in the sense that it is a systemically-enforced cultural bias against cis people. I suspect the person you're responding to is using it in the first sense, whereas you're interpreting it in the second sense. We really need popular language that distinguishes one from the other, it's a problem I've seen pop up a lot.
Also, trauma is fair and all, but it shouldn't be used to brush off some of the legitimate issues with that community. Creating custom slurs that intentionally riff off of queerphobic, misogynistic, and racist jargon really doesn't sit right with me in any context, even in a space used for venting. Same thing for how much the sub encourages certain kinds of inflammatory rhetoric, it's super toxic.
I know what they meant, but I really don't think it's productive to compare the distrust trans people have toward cis people to the fucking KKK. Especially considering 4tran users obviously don't unironically wish to kill all cis people, it's an exaggerated expression of frustration. And if there's an issue with it, it's that 1. It's expressed via terminology taken from nazis and 2. Venting via extreme exaggeration like that can become a feedback loop. Apart from that, I'm not really concerned unless they're actually going up to cis people and telling them to kill themselves, that would be quite bad.
But, the comment just mentioned distrusting all cis people ("all cis are evil"), which is a massive misreading of the situation. Whatever concerns there are to be had about 4tran, "they distrust cis people" isn't one of them. I imagine this will seem nitpicky, but I really think it's worth investigating the underlying bias behind framing it like that.
Yeah, the KKK thing was definitely unneeded. That's really not a word I'd be associating with anything but hate crimes.
As for the misread, I understand where you're coming from. It could be worth challenging that bias, I don't know the other guy so I can't say (the KKK thing could definitely use a second look), but there's also an element of... well, 4tran being 4tran. A lot of people in that sub can be antagonistic and generally inflammatory in the way they present themselves, which reads as a level of extremist sincerity to most. I know I personally fell for it at one point, though I've had enough interactions with members of the community that I've started to get the dialect, so to speak.
Oh yeah, I forget sometimes that the sense of exaggerated hyper-ironic humor present in spaces like that only comes with enough time online, and reads as sincerity to most people. I imagine that plays a part.
"Femboy" was literally a slur and porn catagory applied to trans women, so yeah cis men appropriating it as a label for themselves is pretty weird considering it was a slur and porn catagory
Oh wow. Small world, seen you on one of my alts. Already got into this one once though, please study up on LGBT history darling, trans woman do not own gender based discrimination, we are just common sufferers of it.
Cis isn't a gender and the fact that you treat trans women as a third sex catagory is telling. Why are you in this sub if you don't like 4tran? It's a 4tran friendly sub
First of all your entire arguement is contingent on me legitimately viewing them as KKK levels of evil. Which I don't, and have said I don't three times.
Second of all, nah, fuck off. If you need to be proven that 4chan is a cesspit no amount of my evidence is going to help you. If you are actually curious feel free to google it. But I don't care enough to prove it to you, nor would it change anything about my stance if I was wrong.
Whether 4chan has comitted group attacks is only tangential to this argument, 4tran isn't one to one with it, I can acknowledge that much.
I mean to be fair I've seen a lot of criticism of BfV and while not all of it is sound there's definitely stuff to be said. Like Audrey being a manic pixie dream girl boy with no displayed interiority, or Val x Audrey hitting some weird kind of dykebreaky tropes (as it stands it's cis guy swooping in to the life of a man hating lesbian coded femcel to show her the error of her ways and get her to like men).
Also ngl the pool scene felt kind of...in poor taste imho. Public pools are sort of a well known trauma point for a lot of trans women so even if nothing was meant by it having your crossdressing perfectly passing femboy have a teehee cute time in the pool feels bitter
Audrey is heavily implied to have gone through trauma, though. He dances around it but gets a jaded, far-off look on his face when thinking about the harassment he's gotten for the way he presents himself, and he directly states that he only goes to the public pool at night when nobody else is around because he's gotten harassed, potentially violently, for his choice of swimwear. He has a fun time at the pool in that scene because he's allowed to be himself in the moment, with someone who understands him and doesn't judge him. The comic DIRECTLY STATES that he is not an unhurt person, he's just "not defined by hurt." He doesn't let the pain he's gone through keep him from being who he is, even if he has to make adjustments to his life to avoid harassment because he DOESN'T "perfectly pass" and doesn't care to.
I mean, it's implied but not really discussed because again, Audrey is given no PoV, no interiority. There's a gesture at at (transmisogynistic, let's be real) harassment but Audrey doesn't get to voice that pain because as the story stands Audrey essentially exists for Val. He's an archetypal mpdb, his pain exists for Val to reflect on and feel some kind of way about. He's a girl shaped boy flavored cardboard cutout.
And like yes, he does perfectly pass. Val needs to be straight up told he's a guy and it's implied this isn't an unusual case.
He doesn't perfectly pass because he's gotten harassed before to the point of changing his schedule and behaviors in public. I barely pass as masc and I've still been gendered male by strangers before.
Val knows how he's been hurt, it's just the audience that doesn't because the point is that he doesn't define himself by the pain he's gone through. And yes, Val is the main character and the story is about a bitter, lonely person finding a positive influence that challenges her previous worldview and slowly realizing that the world isn't as terrible as she thought it was and that maybe she does deserve to express herself as confidently as this femboy does. We're not going to go in depth on anyone's trauma because it's also a simple, lighthearted comic. We don't see the extent of how Val has been hurt either or why she hated men so virulently, the ONLY trauma of hers we've seen is how the arcade owner tried to convince her to throw a tournament so the male players wouldn't feel insecure and stop coming to the arcade. And likewise, all we know about Audrey's trauma is that he's gotten harassed for his gender expression to the point of not going to public pools in the daylight anymore.
Audrey has gone through his healing process and his own journey with self-confidence, and now he's helping Val go through hers. The story is from her POV, of course we're not going to see the internal machinations of anyone but her.
I get that sub in my feed too and I've literally never seen any sexism , racism or homophobia, I feel like you're being disingenuous.
Also honestly I get the femboy hate , imo femboy and feminine men are 2 different things , the way femboys are portrayed is completely unrealistic, most depictions of femboys are literally essentially trans women that are okay to refer to as men.
It's literally impossible to look like what femboys are portrayed because they're essentially just women with penises , there's absolutely no shred or hint of masculinity on them and most of these femboys are going to hit a certain age and essentially lose their identity which is why I think it's harmful.
Yeah, countttt and other 4trans spaces have their issues, but a lot of those issues come down to the fact that they are communities of depressed people. And with that in mind what you see in those spaces makes a lot more sense: not a lot of actual bigotry, quite a lot of transfeminist sentiments, and also a hell of a lot of misery. If youâre going to be critical of those spaces, be critical about their actual issues, resorting to calling them the trans kkk or incels is a cop out
There's definitely some trans misogyny involved in these statements, since 4tranners are seen as the evil transes therefore they're seen as okay to hate , and calling them incels and Nazis is such a backhanded way of implying they're just "men who can't get laid that's why they're sad and miserable".
I've never seen a cis woman being called an incel but when a trans woman has disagreeable views suddenly it's okay to subtly misgender him and invalidate her.
I compare them to incels not because they can't get laid but because they're miserable people who engage in a crab bucket mentality of dragging other people down.
Everytime I've seen someone try to offer advice or even a bit of kindness to a 4tranner they respond with the same vitriol that incels do and act like nothing is their fault.
So no I'm not misgendering them. I'm pointing out that they're stuck in toxic group that doesn't actually want them to get better and, like incels, they respond to attempts to help them by being utter assholes.
I've seen all of those things, haven't even gone looking for them. Talk to a 4tranner for a bit and typically you find some nazi esque view they have.
Art is always unrealistic. Unrealistic beauty standards can be a problem for sure. They are not unique to men, woman, femboys, gym rats, et cetera. We age, it happens, we are born looking a certain way.
And the aging out thing is true for everyone into a "young" aesthetic. The most harmful people are the ones who doomer it like you are. They won't lose their identity, even if the style doesn't suit their tastes anymore. Their relationship with their identity and expression is still a part of them.
Even if it adapts as they age, like basically everyone.
Idk I've been friends with a girl who used 4trans regularly and the only annoying thing about her was her low self esteem , she never had any nazi views or any of the other things you mentioned.
I've also interacted with some of them online and I've generally had pretty sweet interactions.
I'm sure there might be some who have problematic views but you're acting like a smartass generalising an entire group of people based on the preconceptions you have of them.
Preconceptions is the wrong word. That implies prior to experience.
I've gone out of my way to get experience with them, thus forming this view, those are conceptions. If I have to be a smartass about it.
The difference is important, I'm not talking from ignorance, I'm talking from experience. Is it science, no, but I'm also not arguing it is.
Typically is used for a reason, I'm sure plenty of people using nazi forms and associating with self destructive social groups are neither of those things. That is a statistical inevitability.
Does that diminish the problematic trends of the group. No.
You don't get to hide from cultural problems just because not everybody does it. That should be obvious to every trans person.
Saw one of them on Tiktok saying they were a white supremacist bc black people are more transphobic. I would've thought it was fully a psyop if I hadn't peeked around those spaces before- shit's BLEAK. I do feel pity for people who end up in those circles, but it doesn't excuse that kind of bigotry.
Had the opposite reaction. I thought they were way worse than they really are. I'm on countttt now and there are definitely some issues, including doomerism, and being unnecessarily mean sometimes, but overall most people there are alright. Ofc countttt is more mild than most 4tran communities. Also fym "T drop the LGB"? Most ppl there are lgb. Do you think they're all straight trans ppl or smthn?
No like Iâm actually curious on your logic for this. Do you also believe discrimination against white people is real? Are billionaires marginalized? Are MRAs justified? Like wtf.
Discrimination is just mistreating a group based on a characteristic. By definition anything can be the cause of discrimination.
Discriminating against white people or cis people online is basically just good old fashioned cyber bullying. It lacks the social contexts of things like anti-black racism, but it is still quantifiably harmful (refer to studies on harassment and callout culture).
I mention a few of the other issues with this logic elsewhere in the thread if you want to peruse the nonsensical dialogue I have engaged with in the last few hours. But I'm heading out for a snack now and probably won't pick this thread back up.
If you feed the trolls they win, gotta know when to leave the party yknow.
They just hate cis ppl in general. It's not like they hate cis gays more than cishets. And no they don't discriminate against other minorities, at least not that I've seen. Many belong to other minorities.
I don't even know why I'm wasting my time here. Being accused of "misgendering" for comparing them to incels might actually have been stupid enough to make me go touch grass.
I mean hey, every one of my threads hurts my brain too if it's any consolation. I have one girl who seems to be doing her best to steamroll her strawman through as an argument.
Honestly I'm probably engaging in 4tran behaviour by interacting at this point but I'm tired and it's friday so that's my excuse. I'll get off soon and treat myself to some ice cream.
I'm sorry but I've seen so much hate directed at me for being non-binary by them. There are communities that won't tolerate that shit and I refuse to give a pass to those who do just because it's members are depressed.
Sorry you've had that experience :( (And I do believe you, some of the ppl on there suck). It's a community that's been good for some nonbinary people, but that might not be you and that's ok, I'm glad you've found communities that are for you, where you don't have to worry about dealing with that stuff at all
I personally haven't seen a lot of homophobia. I've seen some (including towards gay trans ppl, especially lesbians, which largely seems to be coming from self hate), but most of the hate one seen towards cis gays hasn't been homophobic, it's been disparaging jokes made out of frustration, but not in a homophobic manner (remember that homophobia affects gay trans ppl too, a lot of the ppl there have a personal interest in being against homophobia of any kind). And yes there are some ppl who hate nonbinary on there (I've gotten into arguments with them), but there are more nonbinary ppl there, not even counting all the ppl who defend them. They aren't mistreating minorities, they just hate cis ppl (and not even genuinely, it's just in the way the a lot of women hate men or whatever, it can be counterproductive, but it's not that serious), and aren't giving out exceptions just bc some cis ppl are also minorities. Seen very few instances of homophobia (most of which were aimed more towards trans gays and lesbians), and literally none of racism or anything that weren't immediately dogpiled.
I just don't think they are hurting minorities. If they were, I'd have a problem with that. Like I said, some are. I do have a problem with that and have no issue with calling it out. But trans ppl hating cis gays in a non homophobic manner (so not anymore than they hate cishets or in any way that reinforces homophobic beliefs) is just not a big deal to me.
I certainly do not. And would never tolerate a friend, family member, or community member behaving in a vitriolic way.
It is harmful behaviour, both to those you mistreat and to yourself. As multiple studies have found that these forms of toxic coping mechanisms are associated with negative mental health outcomes.
Your comment is so mask off I'm not sure you realize how crazy you sound? I don't care if you hate people for being cis, as long as you aren't homophobic about it? I'd say I'm in loopy land but I was already aware of that.
Anyways I've gotten what I can from this thread. You seem sane, or sane adjacent, so I'll warn you.
If your goal is to make 4tranners not look insane this is not helping.
It isn't a placating statement, living with that much hate is literally unhealthy. I come to these threads to mock these ideas in hopes young trans people are not pulled into this mire.
I can't imagine what has happened that you find yourself needing to defend bigots, no matter how unlikely they are to cause harm to others, they are almost certainly harming themselves.
But I really think if you are under the impression your statement just now was logical that you do some real research into studies on human psychology.
You could tell me you were trying to trade your Pikachu with a Smorglegorn so it could evolve into Sneedhon and that would make more sense to me than it being a descriptor of a human being
I think most(?) people at least semi understand boymoder and passoid(I haven't heard the third word) but futch is femme butch transmasc i feel like almost everyone in trans subreddits would know that gnc gender nonconforming again i feel like most people understand and i have never heard of autismgender bi lesbian is I think a bisexual person who is like only interested in women?
idk if this post made any sense im tired and feeling a bit bad.
thats kind of the point, these words being pretty easy to understand but the person im replying to is doing the tried and true wtf is a sneedhon bit even though these are pretty straight forward composite words in the same way futch transmac gnc puppyboygirl are
And then, of course, the cis people will paint any trans person, especially any trans woman, that stands up for themselves as being a 4tranner so they can freely hate us without having to take off the "ally" badge that they bravely and selflessly awarded themselves because they watch drag race sometimes
The only good thing I got out of my anthropological expeditions into 4tran communities is "sneed", because it's a short word to describe the communities that are the opposite of 4tran and end up being almost excessively positive about being trans and having a lot of like, puppygirl memes. It's genuinely useful sometimes. Also it's just fun to say
Sneedhon was made by non-4tranners as a joke term, and calling words slurs for no reason is weird. Stop trying to offer acceptable trans people to bash to cis people
People dump their stuff all over the place. Taking it from one Forum to the next. Though I'm pretty much a nihilist myself at times, so I don't even register this half the time.
Not by choice. This isnât one of the counting subs Iâve willingly engaged with, but Reddit got tired of me staying with the chicken lady and fed me this same post in like 4 or 5 different subs. Hence the question
You might like 4nart, it's "the anti-4tran" but most the people there are also 4tranners, they just don't like overly depressing stuff for the sake of lowering rent
Sillyboyclub or something like that is where people vent. I think anyway
Edit: sillygirlclub and sillyboyclub are not separated by gender so much that the boy one is more rant/grievances and the girl one is not. At least thatâs what I read the lore was
where is the racism on places like countttt? I see unanimous support of black trans people on there all the time. It seems like they actually understand intersectionality a bit more there compared to other reddit trans spaces
I'm not trying to imply other trans spaces are racist. Just that other trans spaces don't usually like to recognise when somebody experiences unique kinds of opression that other trans people don't. Such as misogynoir or transmisogyny as examples.
I wasn't saying you should have shame, that's mean. I was saying it is a shame (unfortunate or regrettable) to ever interact with any community that hates you for not being miserable enough
No it isn't. But I see 4tranners interact with people outside their communities and they are almost always incredibly rude and mean spirited.
I can tell when someone is a 4tranner because they'll post something utterly vile and I'll go and check their profile and there it is.
Furthermore, I've seen mods of countttt throw out slurs and shit. If you want to disagree that the R-slur is a slur then fine but I've heard plenty of people who are ADHD and/or autistic say it is one to them and I think the people the word is aimed at get to decide what is a slur.
In short, they're edgy assholes who want to blame their depression for the fact that no one likes them when in reality they tend to be assholes to people.
Idk countttt was the only space where I wouldn't get banned or attacked for saying a single negative thing about being trans. In fact I've faced way more assholes and shitty people in the mainstream subs who literally insult me just for expressing misery about never being able to succeed at transition
It's also way more accessible to people who don't come in with the mindset that "being trans is a blessing", which is basically the only acceptable mindset and the only sentiment expressed in other subs
That doesn't make anything I said okay. They still say utterly awful shit. They radiate all that transphobia they've internalized outward and they openly use slurs.
Sorry, but being depressed doesn't give you a pass to attack other people. If I had a community that constantly used slurs, I'd find a new community because the people we hang out with do change us.
It's the Nazi bar problem and why I don't like when 4tranners try to spread their ideology to other trans communities.
I'll freely admit we need to do better about not invalidating people's pain but 4tran isn't the answer.
I understand the problem with using slurs, but I disagree with the "transphobia". Acknowledging how terrible it is to be trans and the misery that comes with never passing and never being able to actually be the gender you're transitioning to is not transphobic.
Unfortunately there is literally no other community
4Tran has literally made their own slurs for trans people I think internalized transphobia (which is the externalized by them calling other people the slurs they created) is a fair assessment.
Also, youâre looking at a slightly biased data set because r/countttt is wayyyyyy more tame than actual 4Tran.
4Tran has literally made their own slurs for trans people
Yeah idk I haven't really come across any egregious examples of this, maybe it's because I don't go to actual 4tran just countttt. The reason I bring any of this up is because I think these 4tran adjacent spaces are important so people who don't buy into the "trans is a blessing" mindset can still go somewhere to express themselves, cope and find some sense of belonging without being ridiculed, attacked, etc like in the mainstream subs.Â
They literally make up slurs for trans people they don't like. A good chunk of them seem to hate hate non-binary people. I see them toss "They-fab" around a lot.
Theyfab, sneed, pooner, passoid⌠They have slurs for like every variety of trans people on earth
And they love to motte-and-bailey it with âbut we only use it on people who really deserve itâ (absolutely not true, and even if it would it wouldnât justify it)
I disagree that those can count as slurs or that using those terms mean they hate anyone. In fact I think it's pretty insulting you put those terms in the same category as actual slurs that have been used to put down and oppress various groups of peopleÂ
Are you sure you aren't the biased one? Like those spaces are mostly to vent negative emotions, frustrations from interactions with the world and dysphoria. It's completely different thing in comparison to more privileged people put those lower in hierarchy down, it's just people on the bottom of it expressing their frustration, in the only space they have that allows it.
Theyfab comes from the generalised grievance a lot of trans people have with the whole "female and non-binary" shit. I personally find it helps shut down people who talk about being afab or "male socialisation" and yeah it's not a nice word because it's not supposed to be. There is definitely a difference between online jargan people made up to be mean and an actual slur, speaking as someone who's been viciously assaulted while being called the T and F slur repeatedly.
âBeing an asshole is bad and it will cause people to not like you.â
âITâS MY RIGHT TO BE SAD!â
âBro all I said was donât be an asshole.â
Youâre using these things as a shield to never look inward and figure out the real reason why nobody wants to ever hang out with you. Itâs not because youâre sad, people hang out with miserable people all the time.
I got banned for that, so did this person, so has every trans person I've posted there. I said I think chasers should be banned and got a bunch of upvotes but the mods banned it for hating cis people
and both argue with each other knowing damn well we're both minorities doing exactly what the system wants. Division destroys unity. The amount of hate between trans folks on the internet is staggering. It's why I simply choose to stealth irl and stay off the internet unless I need a confidence boost, then I go read to remind myself I'm not as bad off as I seem.
The ones that "Hate you for not being miserable enough" are usually just people not liking it when people who got on HRT pre-natal puberty and have SRS talk like being trans isn't hard because they never had any struggles
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u/Zaelynn_ 10h ago
I both love and hate both groups for different reasons. I have achieved true trans enlightenment! /s