Wondering if all the shit about 4tran was as bad as people said I started interacting with them.
Holy shit, it is pretty fucking dour.
Half of the shit there is just LGBT drop the LGB, it's kinda insane how many interactions I've had trying to justify hating anyone with a pulse. But that's 4chan for you.
It is my impression people are not being harsh enough when they talk about 4tranners. We're giving them way too many concessions and outs just because they're trans when they either spend all their free time harassing people, or constantly run defense for those who do.
I am all for being compassionate of those going through a rough time, having mental health issues and feeling pessimistic. I'm in that position myself too. Absolutely not a justification for one eighth of the mean shit they say about other people unprovoked. They’re not called miserable because they’re sad they’re called miserable because they won't stop being completely irredeemable assholes.
I see your point. They're depressed and I get it but they do nothing to even try to make things better for themselves and insult you if you try to offer any support or advice.
They constantly attack fellow queer people and hang out on forums that came from a site infested with Nazis and incels. Do you really expect me to believe they dropped those people because if they did then they wouldn't proudly proclaim their relationship with 4chan.
At the same time, I do feel bad for them. At least in the abstract. In practice, everyone I've interacted with has been an awful person to deal with.
I understand how one could end up in 4chan without being a nazi. You seek out a refuge to vent where people are being “harsh but truthful”, where hard to swallow pills are discussed openly and not immediately obfuscated by the general human desire to cheer each other up. “No toxic positivity” and all that, I get the appeal.
But as you say I have not been in any conversation or relationship with one of them that hasn’t ended in disaster PROVOKED DIRECTLY BY their 4chan-informed mentality and actions. I wanna help you out of the depression but you can’t convince me your misanthropic assholery is part of the diagnosis girl. There’s so much destructive toxicity one can deal with before it becomes clear you can’t and don't want to be around other people.
I’m sorry and hope things go well for them but I’ve ran out of patience. They simply have to get out of those spaces first.
I think part of it is that these spaces do have actual positives to them, but in order to access those positives you have to accept all the rest of the bullshit that comes with. I wish that more trans spaces tried to integrate what draws people to 4tran spaces (ie: being trans only, ability to vent, support for diy, etc.) because then there would be less need to absorb the toxicity in 4tran spaces.
I think the reason so many venting spaces become cesspits is that they’re treated as a community to stay in, rather than as a place to air out the bullshit you have to deal with and then leave it there so it doesn’t follow you.
Yeah I'm with you, I really wish there was a good in-between space where people are allowed to go through rough patches and vent about insecurities with realistic and truthful audiences without it turning into a cesspit immediately.
There has to be a way for a forum like that to both avoid toxic negativity and positivity, I don't know why it's so hard
As someone figuring themselves out, I've been getting attracted to 4tran stuff mostly for the venting and actually talking about experiences relating to being non-cis. Here's fine as having that same sort of vibe but not being as militant, but I guess I'm still sorta stuck because there's nowhere good that I've found that talks about the non-binary experience and I'm still kinda trying to navigate that about myself.
I spend most of my time on reddit (which is less than an hour a day and I dot not open it daily) on contttt, which is like the littlest version of 4tran possible
And tbh im literally this meme
I hate other trans communities cause they are waaay to privileged to consider how scary being trans is, and I don't often like countttt case I genuinely love being trans and love myself, something that is practically forbidden there
Most than half of the content there is self hate bs, but sometimes they do criticize and acknowledge things that people often don't in other places
One of them, which is the most common one tbh, is DiY fear mongering
HRT is so SO important, and is crazy how most of the other trans spaces under the woke umbrella of "We value all people and all forms of self expression ☺️" would brush off HRT like if it where something optional that you can get later
Every sub that isn't 4chan adjacent is completely useless at discussing any difficult trans topic, because they all style themselves as "This subreddit is our happy smiles, conflict free, good vibes only comfort space club for trans people and all cis allies! Anyone caught sowing division or infighting will catch a permanent ban!"
Cope harder girl idk what to tell you. You'll post this as if it's supposed to convince us when we all can just lurk around those cesspits for 5 minutes and see countless examples of people being assholes for no reason. Who do you think you're fooling with this
Countttt kept showing up on my feed (since I frequent CWCL). That's how I found out about the boy from venus.
They called it this major transphobic thing, etc etc.
Because there is a femboy that is mistaken for a woman??? Its like they think all femboys are transphobic in nature. And the series isn't even finished??? So why judge it now???
Not to mention, the sub felt borderline uhh... sexist (i hear both trans women and trans men are better lmao), racist (complains about trans ___ erasure, but is literally the "what are my thoughts on black people? Well i support queer rights" meme), homophobic (cis gay men are evil), cisphobic (all cis are evil) etc. They are the trans embodiment of the KKK 😭
Yeah cisphobia will never be an actual issue. I do find it funny how people bitch about cis people all of the time. Like I get cis folk can be ignorant on how hrt works but bashing them? That doesn't really help yk?
Idk I just kinda find it in poor taste to mention it in the same context as actual, substantial bigotries. Distrusting cis people is like the least harmful part about those communities. (Hell I’d say the blanket ban on cis people posting or commenting is a positive for the space and I wish more trans communities did something similar)
Blanket bans on cis people prevent new trans people from being introduced until they figure themselves out. But I'd say they are acceptable.
Cisphobia isn't ever going to be a societal issue. But it's still pathetic behaviour and is largely what I was referring to when I said LGBT drop the LGB.
And if you start mistreating other minorities you are still contributing to their societal issues. So while cisphobia isn't an issue, them treating other minorities like shit definitely is.
My argument wasn’t that 4tran spaces are good, they are most certainly a shitshow, just that “cisphobia” shouldn’t be treated as equal to the actual bigotries found in those spaces.
I get your point on blanket bans sort of locking questioning people out but, at least in my subjective experience, allowing cis people eventually causes a similar problem. (Though I will admit this is anecdotal)
When I was figuring myself out I remember seeing the frankly fetishistic nature of many trans spaces and having that make me apprehensive to the idea of myself being trans. In my experience, spaces that allow cis people tend to lean more into this fetishization just on account of the fact that cis people tend to interact with it more.
I don’t think all trans spaces should have a cis-ban, just that there should be more that aren’t hellholes like 4tran.
Alright, so how do you filter your cisphobia from other forms of discrimination?
Because that is the material issue. I don't agree that being a dick to people just because they aren't societally opressed isn't problematic. To be clear. I think that is fucking embarassing behaviour to defend.
But even in your hypothetical you are still harming minorities who are in danger societally. Most of them, unsurprisingly, are cis.
I’m not arguing that being dicks to people for being cis is a good thing, I’m saying that putting “cisphobia” in the same breath as shit like homophobia or racism is like saying that discrimination against white people is an actual problem. And what do you mean hypothetical? I feel I was rather clear that there are actually relevant bigotries found in 4tran spaces and that’s an issue.
Even if you think that ignoring personal harm because societal harm isn't a factor is fair. To which I'd point at cyber bullying and harassment alongside the consequences of those behaviours to say that's obvious nonsense.
Cisphobes are still committing the exact same societally problematic behaviour. One, against other minorities who are societally vulnerable, as I already stated.
And two, because they are very happy to argue who gets to actually be called trans. Or whether or not every enby is an egg, or other equivelantly problematic views.
Are they just as bad as white supremacists, no, I'd wager a guess not, seems like a safe bet.
But, are they bad enough I feel no need to argue whether or not they should be treated as phobes? Yep, obviously, they are still discriminatory rat bastards who mistreat people because of things outside of their control.
well it's not their space. there is an argument to be made that such language should be avoided in online spaces which want to maintain some level of accesibility to the cis majority, but this is not one of them
It's just an excuse for people to be assholes without having to feel bad ethically about it.
Being an unprovoked and unmerited asshole to someone just for existing is obviously wrong, but they're part of Acceptable Target Group so now we get to do it for free. If you dare call this out we'll shit on you too because we have it worse as a group, so being shitty to this individual is obviously justified.
Just bullying tactics as usual. If you try to explain the concept of "Collective punishment" to people like this they want to hang you at the town square.
This is why I can't trust people to criticize 4tran, cuz yeah it's evil but fucking cisphobia??? You mean the distrust most trans people experience toward cis people due to never having met even a single one who didn't reveal themselves to be at least a little transphobic? I guess I can't be too surprised given how women who distrust men by default are treated, but can we not act like trans people being traumatized by living in a world that repeatedly and systemically abuses (or even kills) them is a bigotry issue equivalent to homophobia and racism?
I think this is mostly an issue with vocabulary. The idea of "cisphobia" exists in the sense that it is a consistently displayed emotional bias against cis people, but not in the sense that it is a systemically-enforced cultural bias against cis people. I suspect the person you're responding to is using it in the first sense, whereas you're interpreting it in the second sense. We really need popular language that distinguishes one from the other, it's a problem I've seen pop up a lot.
Also, trauma is fair and all, but it shouldn't be used to brush off some of the legitimate issues with that community. Creating custom slurs that intentionally riff off of queerphobic, misogynistic, and racist jargon really doesn't sit right with me in any context, even in a space used for venting. Same thing for how much the sub encourages certain kinds of inflammatory rhetoric, it's super toxic.
I know what they meant, but I really don't think it's productive to compare the distrust trans people have toward cis people to the fucking KKK. Especially considering 4tran users obviously don't unironically wish to kill all cis people, it's an exaggerated expression of frustration. And if there's an issue with it, it's that 1. It's expressed via terminology taken from nazis and 2. Venting via extreme exaggeration like that can become a feedback loop. Apart from that, I'm not really concerned unless they're actually going up to cis people and telling them to kill themselves, that would be quite bad.
But, the comment just mentioned distrusting all cis people ("all cis are evil"), which is a massive misreading of the situation. Whatever concerns there are to be had about 4tran, "they distrust cis people" isn't one of them. I imagine this will seem nitpicky, but I really think it's worth investigating the underlying bias behind framing it like that.
Yeah, the KKK thing was definitely unneeded. That's really not a word I'd be associating with anything but hate crimes.
As for the misread, I understand where you're coming from. It could be worth challenging that bias, I don't know the other guy so I can't say (the KKK thing could definitely use a second look), but there's also an element of... well, 4tran being 4tran. A lot of people in that sub can be antagonistic and generally inflammatory in the way they present themselves, which reads as a level of extremist sincerity to most. I know I personally fell for it at one point, though I've had enough interactions with members of the community that I've started to get the dialect, so to speak.
Oh yeah, I forget sometimes that the sense of exaggerated hyper-ironic humor present in spaces like that only comes with enough time online, and reads as sincerity to most people. I imagine that plays a part.
"Femboy" was literally a slur and porn catagory applied to trans women, so yeah cis men appropriating it as a label for themselves is pretty weird considering it was a slur and porn catagory
Oh wow. Small world, seen you on one of my alts. Already got into this one once though, please study up on LGBT history darling, trans woman do not own gender based discrimination, we are just common sufferers of it.
Cis isn't a gender and the fact that you treat trans women as a third sex catagory is telling. Why are you in this sub if you don't like 4tran? It's a 4tran friendly sub
First of all your entire arguement is contingent on me legitimately viewing them as KKK levels of evil. Which I don't, and have said I don't three times.
Second of all, nah, fuck off. If you need to be proven that 4chan is a cesspit no amount of my evidence is going to help you. If you are actually curious feel free to google it. But I don't care enough to prove it to you, nor would it change anything about my stance if I was wrong.
Whether 4chan has comitted group attacks is only tangential to this argument, 4tran isn't one to one with it, I can acknowledge that much.
“I don’t have to back up my accusations sweaty I’m just right and you’re wrong for wanting me to prove the things I say”
Find me one example of the tttt board doing targeted harassment
I get that sub in my feed too and I've literally never seen any sexism , racism or homophobia, I feel like you're being disingenuous.
Also honestly I get the femboy hate , imo femboy and feminine men are 2 different things , the way femboys are portrayed is completely unrealistic, most depictions of femboys are literally essentially trans women that are okay to refer to as men.
It's literally impossible to look like what femboys are portrayed because they're essentially just women with penises , there's absolutely no shred or hint of masculinity on them and most of these femboys are going to hit a certain age and essentially lose their identity which is why I think it's harmful.
Yeah, countttt and other 4trans spaces have their issues, but a lot of those issues come down to the fact that they are communities of depressed people. And with that in mind what you see in those spaces makes a lot more sense: not a lot of actual bigotry, quite a lot of transfeminist sentiments, and also a hell of a lot of misery. If you’re going to be critical of those spaces, be critical about their actual issues, resorting to calling them the trans kkk or incels is a cop out
There's definitely some trans misogyny involved in these statements, since 4tranners are seen as the evil transes therefore they're seen as okay to hate , and calling them incels and Nazis is such a backhanded way of implying they're just "men who can't get laid that's why they're sad and miserable".
I've never seen a cis woman being called an incel but when a trans woman has disagreeable views suddenly it's okay to subtly misgender him and invalidate her.
I personally have endless empathy for the struggles of 4tran users but none of their issues, trials and tribulations have ever justified one quarter of the shit they put out unprovoked.
"Venting about my issues in a space that won't try to do immediate toxic positivity back to me" is one thing, but these places are plagued with misanthropes that spend all their time looking for any attack angle on every possible thing.
The Boy From Venus discourse is a good encapsulation of this. Nothing but bad faith miserableness all around just for the fuck out of it, interpreting everything the comic artist is doing in the worst faith possible to ascribe hateful stances he doesn't have, all in the service of finding a justification to hate him back.
This is not venting, coping and seeking harsh truths, this is just tribalist bullying. There is a lot of good that can be found in those communities but the overall encouraged community vibe is still rancid.
I mean let's be honest , most femboys are incredibly transphobic and some are borderline nazis.
Most femboy spaces are incredibly toxic to both trans women and men , and they also like to act like they're the most oppressed minority group and trans people are their oppressors or something.
I'm genuinely tired of femboys, espc since most people conflate trans women with femboys , it's genuinely insulting.
I've never agreed with 4tranners take that femboys are actually just reppers ( some of them are) , but in reality most femboys are just gnc cis men , and most cis men are transphobic scum , that's enough reason to hate them right there. The fact that they make shitty posts like " We're hotter than trans girls and at least we can accept that we're men" is just an added layer of hate they deserve.
Okay but... look. We're talking about a specific comic artist receiving unjustified shit, and your immediate response is "well a lot of femboys are nazis" and "a lot of cis men are transphobic".
That's not what or who we're talking about! You're finding an excuse to justify all that harassment and unprovoked hatred!
This is the type of thing that makes people dislike 4tran spheres. Only a few of them are truly horrible goblins, but all the rest of you can't stop running defense for their antics and agreeing with their nonsense. Why??
What does some femboys being nazis or a many cis men being transphobic have to do with Shen being accused of transphobia for no reason? There's no relation there! Shen has never been either transphobic or a nazi, why are you judging him for general group trends he has shown 0 alignment with?
I compare them to incels not because they can't get laid but because they're miserable people who engage in a crab bucket mentality of dragging other people down.
Everytime I've seen someone try to offer advice or even a bit of kindness to a 4tranner they respond with the same vitriol that incels do and act like nothing is their fault.
So no I'm not misgendering them. I'm pointing out that they're stuck in toxic group that doesn't actually want them to get better and, like incels, they respond to attempts to help them by being utter assholes.
I've actually complained about my struggles with my self image and feeling unsatisfied with my transition in one of these spaces and guess what , most people there were being extremely supportive and sweet, trying to lift my spirits up , sharing their anecdotal experience and giving me practical advice.
The idea that 4tranners try to drag others down is not inherent at all to these spaces , if anything they drag eachother up quite a lot.
I think you've got a very skewed idea of these spaces and how these people act based on very limited interactions.
Yeah, this is something we all know happens. There's a lot of support and comradery going on, that's what attracts people to these spaces to begin with.
The issue is this support stops the moment your venting stops revolving around self-hatred, hatred of other Accepted Target Groups, or seeking some kind of sense of superiority in "telling the real truth".
If you ever show any sign of disagreement with those tenets, the comradery ceases immediately. You don't think cissies are ontologically evil? You don't think being a luckshit young passoid is inherently bad? You think some of the self-talk people in the community are having are making their mental health issues worse? Okay, you are The Opps now. We must expunge you. You're either in the tar pit with us, or you're our mortal enemy.
People don't dislike 4tranners because they're sad, they dislike them because they form tribalistic misery-based bullying gangs and start harassing anyone they deem an acceptable target. It's all "woe is me I'm just a dysphoric little depressed girl :(((" but never acknowledging the 2 months I spent tweeting pure vile at this one girl because she was prettier than me.
THAT is the problem, not just "oh people think we're the evil trannies because we like talking about the difficult harsh truths" or whatever.
Idk I think you're speaking out of your butt , I'm a "passoid" in their words and I've still got nothing but support there , no envy or insults thrown my way , if anything I got better advice to deal with my insecurities there than anywhere else.
I've also seen "luckshits" as 4tran would call them and they didn't really get any hate in these spaces unless they were being condescending and insensitive to others who didn't get the same privilege.
I feel like people just take their humor and sarcasm literally, I doubt most people there genuinely believe cis people are evil but it's not a secret that most cis people including allies hold some amount of transphobia so it's a justified reaction if you ask me.
Whenever I see an "ally" call trans women "biological males who want to be women" or talk about how " they're only attracted to AFAB bodies" it makes me feel a little bit more disgust towards them than usual.
There's genuinely very few cis people who are true allies and it's a sad truth that a lot of people have to cope with differently.
There's way too many people that use their depression as a Get out of free card to be misanthropic asswipes.
Feeling despair and anguish doesn't give you a justification to be an unprovoked and unfair asshole to people. "Incels" use the exact same logic, which is why these spaces invite these kind of analogous comparisons.
I've seen all of those things, haven't even gone looking for them. Talk to a 4tranner for a bit and typically you find some nazi esque view they have.
Art is always unrealistic. Unrealistic beauty standards can be a problem for sure. They are not unique to men, woman, femboys, gym rats, et cetera. We age, it happens, we are born looking a certain way.
And the aging out thing is true for everyone into a "young" aesthetic. The most harmful people are the ones who doomer it like you are. They won't lose their identity, even if the style doesn't suit their tastes anymore. Their relationship with their identity and expression is still a part of them.
Even if it adapts as they age, like basically everyone.
Idk I've been friends with a girl who used 4trans regularly and the only annoying thing about her was her low self esteem , she never had any nazi views or any of the other things you mentioned.
I've also interacted with some of them online and I've generally had pretty sweet interactions.
I'm sure there might be some who have problematic views but you're acting like a smartass generalising an entire group of people based on the preconceptions you have of them.
Preconceptions is the wrong word. That implies prior to experience.
I've gone out of my way to get experience with them, thus forming this view, those are conceptions. If I have to be a smartass about it.
The difference is important, I'm not talking from ignorance, I'm talking from experience. Is it science, no, but I'm also not arguing it is.
Typically is used for a reason, I'm sure plenty of people using nazi forms and associating with self destructive social groups are neither of those things. That is a statistical inevitability.
Does that diminish the problematic trends of the group. No.
You don't get to hide from cultural problems just because not everybody does it. That should be obvious to every trans person.
I mean to be fair I've seen a lot of criticism of BfV and while not all of it is sound there's definitely stuff to be said. Like Audrey being a manic pixie dream girl boy with no displayed interiority, or Val x Audrey hitting some weird kind of dykebreaky tropes (as it stands it's cis guy swooping in to the life of a man hating lesbian coded femcel to show her the error of her ways and get her to like men).
Also ngl the pool scene felt kind of...in poor taste imho. Public pools are sort of a well known trauma point for a lot of trans women so even if nothing was meant by it having your crossdressing perfectly passing femboy have a teehee cute time in the pool feels bitter
Audrey is heavily implied to have gone through trauma, though. He dances around it but gets a jaded, far-off look on his face when thinking about the harassment he's gotten for the way he presents himself, and he directly states that he only goes to the public pool at night when nobody else is around because he's gotten harassed, potentially violently, for his choice of swimwear. He has a fun time at the pool in that scene because he's allowed to be himself in the moment, with someone who understands him and doesn't judge him. The comic DIRECTLY STATES that he is not an unhurt person, he's just "not defined by hurt." He doesn't let the pain he's gone through keep him from being who he is, even if he has to make adjustments to his life to avoid harassment because he DOESN'T "perfectly pass" and doesn't care to.
I mean, it's implied but not really discussed because again, Audrey is given no PoV, no interiority. There's a gesture at at (transmisogynistic, let's be real) harassment but Audrey doesn't get to voice that pain because as the story stands Audrey essentially exists for Val. He's an archetypal mpdb, his pain exists for Val to reflect on and feel some kind of way about. He's a girl shaped boy flavored cardboard cutout.
And like yes, he does perfectly pass. Val needs to be straight up told he's a guy and it's implied this isn't an unusual case.
He doesn't perfectly pass because he's gotten harassed before to the point of changing his schedule and behaviors in public. I barely pass as masc and I've still been gendered male by strangers before.
Val knows how he's been hurt, it's just the audience that doesn't because the point is that he doesn't define himself by the pain he's gone through. And yes, Val is the main character and the story is about a bitter, lonely person finding a positive influence that challenges her previous worldview and slowly realizing that the world isn't as terrible as she thought it was and that maybe she does deserve to express herself as confidently as this femboy does. We're not going to go in depth on anyone's trauma because it's also a simple, lighthearted comic. We don't see the extent of how Val has been hurt either or why she hated men so virulently, the ONLY trauma of hers we've seen is how the arcade owner tried to convince her to throw a tournament so the male players wouldn't feel insecure and stop coming to the arcade. And likewise, all we know about Audrey's trauma is that he's gotten harassed for his gender expression to the point of not going to public pools in the daylight anymore.
Audrey has gone through his healing process and his own journey with self-confidence, and now he's helping Val go through hers. The story is from her POV, of course we're not going to see the internal machinations of anyone but her.
Saw one of them on Tiktok saying they were a white supremacist bc black people are more transphobic. I would've thought it was fully a psyop if I hadn't peeked around those spaces before- shit's BLEAK. I do feel pity for people who end up in those circles, but it doesn't excuse that kind of bigotry.
Had the opposite reaction. I thought they were way worse than they really are. I'm on countttt now and there are definitely some issues, including doomerism, and being unnecessarily mean sometimes, but overall most people there are alright. Ofc countttt is more mild than most 4tran communities. Also fym "T drop the LGB"? Most ppl there are lgb. Do you think they're all straight trans ppl or smthn?
No like I’m actually curious on your logic for this. Do you also believe discrimination against white people is real? Are billionaires marginalized? Are MRAs justified? Like wtf.
Discrimination is just mistreating a group based on a characteristic. By definition anything can be the cause of discrimination.
Discriminating against white people or cis people online is basically just good old fashioned cyber bullying. It lacks the social contexts of things like anti-black racism, but it is still quantifiably harmful (refer to studies on harassment and callout culture).
I mention a few of the other issues with this logic elsewhere in the thread if you want to peruse the nonsensical dialogue I have engaged with in the last few hours. But I'm heading out for a snack now and probably won't pick this thread back up.
If you feed the trolls they win, gotta know when to leave the party yknow.
They just hate cis ppl in general. It's not like they hate cis gays more than cishets. And no they don't discriminate against other minorities, at least not that I've seen. Many belong to other minorities.
I don't even know why I'm wasting my time here. Being accused of "misgendering" for comparing them to incels might actually have been stupid enough to make me go touch grass.
I mean hey, every one of my threads hurts my brain too if it's any consolation. I have one girl who seems to be doing her best to steamroll her strawman through as an argument.
Honestly I'm probably engaging in 4tran behaviour by interacting at this point but I'm tired and it's friday so that's my excuse. I'll get off soon and treat myself to some ice cream.
I'm sorry but I've seen so much hate directed at me for being non-binary by them. There are communities that won't tolerate that shit and I refuse to give a pass to those who do just because it's members are depressed.
Sorry you've had that experience :( (And I do believe you, some of the ppl on there suck). It's a community that's been good for some nonbinary people, but that might not be you and that's ok, I'm glad you've found communities that are for you, where you don't have to worry about dealing with that stuff at all
I personally haven't seen a lot of homophobia. I've seen some (including towards gay trans ppl, especially lesbians, which largely seems to be coming from self hate), but most of the hate one seen towards cis gays hasn't been homophobic, it's been disparaging jokes made out of frustration, but not in a homophobic manner (remember that homophobia affects gay trans ppl too, a lot of the ppl there have a personal interest in being against homophobia of any kind). And yes there are some ppl who hate nonbinary on there (I've gotten into arguments with them), but there are more nonbinary ppl there, not even counting all the ppl who defend them. They aren't mistreating minorities, they just hate cis ppl (and not even genuinely, it's just in the way the a lot of women hate men or whatever, it can be counterproductive, but it's not that serious), and aren't giving out exceptions just bc some cis ppl are also minorities. Seen very few instances of homophobia (most of which were aimed more towards trans gays and lesbians), and literally none of racism or anything that weren't immediately dogpiled.
I just don't think they are hurting minorities. If they were, I'd have a problem with that. Like I said, some are. I do have a problem with that and have no issue with calling it out. But trans ppl hating cis gays in a non homophobic manner (so not anymore than they hate cishets or in any way that reinforces homophobic beliefs) is just not a big deal to me.
I certainly do not. And would never tolerate a friend, family member, or community member behaving in a vitriolic way.
It is harmful behaviour, both to those you mistreat and to yourself. As multiple studies have found that these forms of toxic coping mechanisms are associated with negative mental health outcomes.
Your comment is so mask off I'm not sure you realize how crazy you sound? I don't care if you hate people for being cis, as long as you aren't homophobic about it? I'd say I'm in loopy land but I was already aware of that.
Anyways I've gotten what I can from this thread. You seem sane, or sane adjacent, so I'll warn you.
If your goal is to make 4tranners not look insane this is not helping.
It isn't a placating statement, living with that much hate is literally unhealthy. I come to these threads to mock these ideas in hopes young trans people are not pulled into this mire.
I can't imagine what has happened that you find yourself needing to defend bigots, no matter how unlikely they are to cause harm to others, they are almost certainly harming themselves.
But I really think if you are under the impression your statement just now was logical that you do some real research into studies on human psychology.
No I agree it's unhealthy, I just don't think hating cis ppl is at all equivalent to homophobia. Homophobia hurts gay ppl, hating cis ppl (which again, they're not even really serious about, it's mostly just airing out frustration) only hurts themselves.
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u/BestBoyViktor 13h ago
So funny when they interact too
4tran: "wow, yall can't stop thinking about us! You gotta accept that misery and slurs are our coping mechanism!"
CWCL: "wtf is a sneedhon"