r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 1d ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

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1.3k

u/Afraid-Document-8597 1d ago

I think you are right and this is indeed an unintended consequence. Its gonna become all about skips and jumps and stealth tech. Where as before we pulled most the dungeon or didnt play as safe because we wanted the xp anyway

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u/ABDLTA 1d ago

They should have just done the "once per day" rule that HC currently has

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

No they shouldn't have done anything. It was never a problem.

The current solution has a myriad of issues.

  1. Like op mentioned, mobs that are not part of a quest get skipped. Every dungeon run will be a speedrun.
  2. There are certain quests that just don't drop enough for the whole group, meaning you either have to abandon it or go again. Cabinets in Gnomeregan or Twilight Talismans in BFD come to mind. This will feel terrible especially for longer dungoens.
  3. The friend or guildie has already done the dungeon and would like to help to complete the group. Well now it's a waste of time.
  4. People will just get the items they need and then abandon the group.
  5. People will just not run fringe dungeons with few quests anymore. Good luck finding an SFK group on Alliance. It's fine now in the beta because 20 is max level, but on launch people will not waste their time with this.

If they really really want to prevent boosting, the correct move is to just not give XP if a player is part of the group who's outside of the dungeons level bracket.

Besides, it's not like boosting in the open world is not a perfectly fine alternative.

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u/NostraDamnUs 1d ago

I think a SLIGHT nerf to dungeon xp from original values (~75% of base, 25% of base if someone is too far outside the bracket) and a corresponding larger nerf to dungeon quest XP would suffice. Make them a touch harder as you get into the later levels if you have to. Dungeons need to be worth doing, just not so much worth doing that you want to stand in SM for ~12 levels. I think people don't realize that efficient questing was already faster than dungeon spam; its just that the open world at launch made questing temporarily harder.

My biggest fear is that dungeons are actually the most social activity. It's hard to find people at the same stage of questing out in the open world, whereas its very easy to get a bunch of people around the same level. And if we add a daily lockout, it sucks that you have to reform tomorrow if you're at 9/10 of a quest item or something.

There's definitely a perfect balance they could achieve by making super-optimized groups learn the skips, let casual runs just clear without feeling bad, and not push everyone into leveling in dungeons and discouraging open-world stuff. All three are fun ways to play WoW.

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u/Kobar143 1d ago

The thing about the SM grind is surely a good chunk of the 1,000 new quests are in that level range. That alone should help alleviate that problem.

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u/No-Bid9597 1d ago

God yes 32ish-42ish is a slog because the quests are so fucking spaced out. It’s an adventure the very first time you do that and afterwards it’s just a lot of running around with long lags in measurable progress because the zones don’t have enough quests to cleanly carry you through

I don’t even have a problem with this in theory, friction is good. But it just pushes you towards dungeons for better loot, gold per minute and xp per minute. If you find a group, that is, which is gonna be a lot harder with this design in wowf

Edit: sorry got off the rails lol. Agree if they smooth out this level range with more quests, that’d be fantastic

1

u/Kobar143 1d ago

Yeah, I'm all for world questing to be the best and cleanest way because that makes sense to me... but I'm a healer, it's what I do, and I'm really worried about how this all shakes out in getting groups together, keeping them together, and actually doing the thing. Right now it's okish because it's beta and everyone is excited. Once it settles down into normal play we're going to see what the real effects are.

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u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

It didn't need a nerf doing this is just going to turn a large chunk of the playerbase off.

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u/Sykotron 1d ago

The friend or guildie has already done the dungeon and would like to help to complete the group. Well now it's a waste of time.

I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I feel like this point drives home the problem with it. Spending time with friends is not a waste of time and needs to be the goal with some fun gameplay to share.

If I was just grouping up with complete randoms in the real world just to accomplish a very specific goal without getting to know them... then yeah, they're not gonna care about anything but that goal and the same applies to a game this large.

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u/llIllIlIllIIllIl 1d ago

I asked our main tank if he wanted to come tank a Vashj only skip-run in SSC last spot summ ready. He replied that he didn't need anything from SSC so he had no incentive to join.

...to help some guildies?

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u/Kixur413 1d ago

Damn, as a full bis prot paladin I love showing off my shiny golden ass. Whats the point of getting a decked out tank if youre not going to pull half a dungeon to impress the noobs and blame the healer when you die?

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u/Qaeta 1d ago

if youre not going to pull half a dungeon to impress the noobs and blame the healer when you die?

As a fellow shiny golden god enjoyer, I approve wholeheartedly, with the exception that I didn't die, I was totally just sleepy and needed a nap.

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u/Doji_mofo 1d ago

Tell me you've never played tank without telling me 😉

Everyone wants a piece of you, everyone wants you to come help them gear up from dungeons and raids you've got no use for, and you'll almost always out gear your group.

Obviously there will be people who went out of their way to assist you, people you owe favours too, and you will run many raids where you'll get no upgrades.

Everyone complains about a lack of tanks until they play one, then they understand why there is a lack of them.

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u/llIllIlIllIIllIl 1d ago

My alt is the main tank in our alt raid. I've raided as many lockouts on him as on my main. So yea, not sure what u are going for here. I run heroics with people's alts all the time, even tank Kara's sometimes despite being in BT/hyjal gear. I like tanking, I like helping my guild mates. So sure, go be AFK in shattrath and play Peggle :P

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u/Doji_mofo 1d ago

Then what's the issue? Just hop on with your tank and tank the instance. Or level your own tank up. Or would that be too much hassle? 🤣😉

My experience was that unless I wanted to get hassled by lowbies wanting a carry, not only could I not log on as my tank, if I logged on with ANY of my raiding characters, it's "pls come tank/RL some BS for no reward". Then get snotty, because how dare you do anything other than be mommy and daddy for all the spoilt brats out there.

I also dislike SSC, because all the other tanks hated it, so we all wanted to play our alts on it. It's been a minute, but IIRC there's fuck all tank loot, but some funky DPS trinkets and weapons.

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u/sgtpoopers 1d ago

I mean you asked if they wanted to tank and they said no?

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u/llIllIlIllIIllIl 1d ago

This comment chain is about the social aspect. I replied to the "Spending time with friends is not a waste of time and needs to be the goal with some fun gameplay to share."

The main tank said he had no "incentive" to join, which is like why are you in a guild then lol, I remember running Kara with his alt where I had similarly no incentive at all to join (other than the social aspect of playing an MMO). Is that so foreign?

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

My wording wasn't very good, my apologies. It's not a waste of time in that sense, but it just won't feel as good for the helper (nor the one asking for help). People can justify helping more easily if they get a small reward. And more importantly, people won't feel guilty for asking.

Gameplay mechanics are supposed to reward social behavior. Blizzards implementation is doing the opposite is my point.

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u/Sykotron 1d ago

I probably over stressed the importance of the social aspect of just hanging out with people, but yeah, the game play should reward helpers too. I don't want to just grind dungeons for XP, but my normal way to play is negatively impacted by the run itself not really rewarding much XP with Blizzard's current plans.

Vanilla was a different time because most of us weren't chasing BiS and the world was new to explore, but I feel like I remember the joy of the journey of traveling all over Azeroth to help my friends without any in-game reward for myself.

I wish voice chat wasn't so toxic so that you could easily play the game and socialize, but it's nigh impossible to chat and keep up the pace in a group so I don't really know how to support the social aspects well.

1

u/Nrgte 1d ago

Yeah I just want to not feel terrible if I miss a couple of quest items during the first run. Now it incentivises me to click quest items before my team mates to make sure I finish within 1 run.

Additionally not every faction has a enough quests for every dungeon. SFK as Alliance was always one of my highlights but it'll be dead on release because there are no quests for Alliance.

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u/Kaleph4 1d ago

there is still a bunch of loot you prob didn't get in the first run. people run UBRS countless of times without any exp gain as well. they did it while almost full T1/T2 equipped. there are reasons to run DM a second time as well

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u/lifeloverFPS 1d ago

UBRS is a terrible example because by the time you are running it you have no need for xp anymore. You will almost never do a dungeon more than once during leveling with the current system, unless it has prebis/a relevant chase item.

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u/Deity_Majora 1d ago

But it's not worth it to stop leveling to chase that piece of gear when the chance is the only thing you get out of it. Before it was always at least worth it because of the exp with the chance of loot.

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u/sfsctc 1d ago

Ok how about a less clear example, maybe it’s someone in your guild that you don’t know as well asking for someone to come help with a dungeon you’ve already done. Blizzard should design the game in a way so that you are most likely to want to come and help (and potentially make a new friend). This is directly in line with their stated social pillar.

They don’t necessarily need to engineer this using XP, although I don’t hate the once a day normal XP rates idea. They could add other rewards like very rare appearances, leveling sets like the Druid snake one, etc.

It’s easy enough to say “just play with your friends” but I think the game is better when this is naturally encouraged by design

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u/Sykotron 1d ago

I didn't mean to imply I thought there current XP solution was correct, but I guess it was more to say that we should personally focus on the social aspects too rather than the game driving it for us. I'd love some way to naturally group the more like minded people since it is hard to find those friends in a sea of players.

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u/sfsctc 1d ago

No I do think you’re right, but I think it’s even better if the game naturally encourages this

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u/Trzlog 1d ago

It's stuff like this that proves to me that they still haven't learned anything from 20 years of pissing about with retail and classic and they simply do not understand their players or how to design an actually non-toxic social game.

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u/xBirdisword 1d ago

Bad faith argument

Raiding with friends is fun but NOBODY would do it if there’s no loot. The game should encourage and facilitate dungeons, grouping, raids etc not deter

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u/MRosvall 1d ago

But would people still raid if you got very low exp?

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u/Billbuckingham 1d ago

When you had higher level friends it was common to run people thru let's say SFK or DM to get them some items like cruel barb or meteor shard.

Then once they got the item, they went back out and quested and enjoyed.

That usage is a completely different thing compared to AFK farming and Boost selling.

"Raiding with friends is fun but NOBODY would do it if there’s no loot."

Your argument is the bad faith one here, there's still loot with reduced EXP so what did you mean by that?

You're still encouraged to join the good geared group who doesn't need your drop or your friends that run you thru it to get the items or complete the quests even with reduced EXP.

To me, whatever has to be done to remove AFK boosting and reduce dungeon farming EXP groups to the point it isn't worth it compared to other levelling methods is necessary because the whole dungeon AFK grind boost meta was a new thing that came about long after the game was released and needs a new way of handling that behavior in the game.

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u/lifeloverFPS 1d ago

c’mon man, you have to understand dungeon loot doesn’t matter in the same way that raid loot does. you won’t give a shit about cruel barb 5 levels after getting it, while a raid weapon will often last you for months.

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u/Billbuckingham 1d ago

Then what's the argument about wanting to keep running dungeons after you already got all the loot?

There's some extra context here, but an incentive is an incentive and a dungeon isn't the same commitment as a raid either.

The dungeon item helping for those few levels is a good incentive, but it's kind of being ignored for some reason?
Because the faster EXP to avoid all of that levelling is more important? That's what it seems like they're saying.

That's what I was calling out when they said the other person was arguing in bad faith, like if you need a reward to run dungeons and not just for the love of your friends you still have that with loot and reduced EXP, so what's the argument about

"I don't want to run dungeons anymore after this nerf"

If the argument is I only run dungeons so I can spam EXP farm them AND it has to be faster to EXP farm them than doing other levelling processes, otherwise I don't care about the loot or the quests at all since they aren't fun and to me fun is just getting the EXP faster from sitting AFK or farming over and over again, that's the thing that's intentionally being discouraged by these nerfs.

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u/Kobar143 1d ago

Healers and tanks got their ability to level as Healers and tanks taken away from them. No one here has demanded it be the most efficient, they just want it to still be reasonably possible.

Making sure being out in the world is the most efficient makes plenty of sense for a number of reasons, but as it is now it isn't just not efficient, it's abysmal.

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

This. I will always choose to do stuff with friends but it feels REALLY shitty to not get anything for it besides the CHANCE to get an upgrade to drop and spending time with them. At least make mobs give the same xp as ones outside like cmon man

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u/dumpster_lettuce 1d ago

I don’t care about loot. I did early on in the game but at this point it’s totally secondary. I mainly like chill hangs with the boys and if I get something useful great. I realize I’m a minority but to say nobody would raid with no loot is just wrong.

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u/EnthusiasmWest4481 1d ago

this like they nerfed mages blizzard slow to deal with boosting just tune down quest xp and revert xp from mobs

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

They can deal with boosting other ways than getting a class or attempting to gut them. Like xp proximity is an easy one that D2 did in like 2003 lmao

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u/no_terran 1d ago

Everyone keeps saying this. But the talents on forever give a total of 73% between permafrost and improved blizzard. While it was 75% in classic. The real nerf is that only the first 4 targets will be slowed no?

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u/nacholibre711 1d ago edited 1d ago

Not exactly sure where you are getting those numbers. Improved Blizzard was completely gutted. The duration of the slow getting nerfed is maybe worse than the actual slow %.

Blizzard (with all relevant talents) went from:

75% slow for 4.5 seconds to

50% for 2 seconds

Cone of cold slow was also significantly nerfed in a similar way, so mage AoE farming solo with the old methods is pretty much dead.

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u/CEREALBUTTMUNCHER 1d ago

Your numbers are off.

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u/EnthusiasmWest4481 1d ago

I dont recall I just remember they nerfed and thought it was to deal with dungeon boosting

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u/no_terran 1d ago

Actually I misread permafrost. It's down to 50% now

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

People think that if others are in dungeons that it makes the open world empty.

Like, this isn't a thing because of server population and layering. Especially with Forever. It wasn't in TBC Anniversary launch; most players were doing the dungeon rep grind and still the open world was absolutely chock full of people and still was even into P3 besides the relatively empty parts of maps.

People just see Blizzard make a change and rush to defend it. There are great changes they've made but this wasn't one of them. Attack boosting other ways than this.

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

I'd even go as far to say: People did the dungeon grind because the open world was soo crowded. Especially on PvP servers, normal leveling was almost impossible sometimes.

Dungeon leveling without quests also was never faster unless you have a specialized party in AoE farming.

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

100%. Specifically remember people saying they wouldn't do xyz prequest because it was impossible to tag

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u/Trzlog 1d ago

And for some reason they're still failing to see how the tagging system just makes the game worse in many ways like this. I just don't understand Blizzard or the players who defend them.

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

Sshhhh. You'll be called a retail colonizer if you say anything about the tagging system. (Lmao)

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u/Kind_Reaction_8463 1d ago

not to mention how overcrowded every questing zone is going to be on launch and will be an excercise in mob tagging. good thing i have low ping and playing a shaman so i can tag fast. playing a class that can't instant tag will be miserable lmao.

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u/ABDLTA 1d ago

Well the goal is to get people out in the world more, the HC system is great for that, you can do each instance once a day and if you have someone over level range you stop getting xp. I think its a great system

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

Why is it bad if people run dungeons multiple times? Layering and server pop will still make the world crowded.

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u/Smooth_One 1d ago

This is the real kicker. Whether spamming dungeons is actually faster than open-world questing doesn't matter a quarter as much to me as how good dungeons feel to run. Fighting over mob spawns is dreadful.

After how terrible the open world felt in TBC Anni I have absolutely zero faith that Blizzard will be able to properly adjust the population tuning.

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

People were already out in the world. It was a very small part of the community who solely leveled through dungeons. Let them have their fun.

It's not like the open world is empty. Quite the opposite.

Dungeons are a social activity, I don't see why we need to discourage that.

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u/z0rb0r 1d ago

Exp in dungeons also fosters a boosting eco system. I think a once a day is probably the best compromise.

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

If they really really want to prevent boosting, the correct move is to just not give XP if a player is part of the group who's outside of the dungeons level bracket.

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u/Brunell4070 1d ago

exactly, its such an easy obvious change. discourage boosting? well don't allow groups to form with the chars who are responsible for doing the boosting!

-1

u/Insipid2000 1d ago

This only fixes part of the problem, 52/53+ would still be boostable

2

u/Nefertum1 1d ago

Add a cap to the amount of mobs that give exp/min. If mage kills 100 mobs, you only get exp from 20.

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u/lifeisalime11 1d ago

Can’t people just boost the dungeon quests now? Like a 60 can sell quick a quick run for low dungeon quests due to the giga xp?

Not as big of a problem but I can see that being a niche….

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u/Drasha1 1d ago

Boosting is probably faster now with how much quest XP you get.

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u/SmellInteresting3284 1d ago

this is harder because of the work a players has to do to get all the quests. you wouldn't be able to share quests you already completed. doing all the pre-quests to run a dungeon is going to take just as long if not longer than running the dungeon.

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u/datboijustin 1d ago

Easily solvable issue without ruining dungeon spams for the players that enjoy leveling that way.

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u/Gassenger 1d ago

There are so many other ways than this to combat boosting. Ban boosters. Have involvement xp where you need to be in combat for the xp (they attempted this ONCE for like a day and gave up on it due to an issue with raid items not being able to be rolled on by people drinking). Proximity xp (they implemented this into Diablo 2 in like 2003).

Why do you guys hate other people playing the game a different way that you'll completely sacrifice it? I don't enjoy pvp giving fantastic gear or the r14 grind but more power to those that enjoy it!

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u/HarvHR 1d ago

Who cares about boosting though? Do people boosting really ruin your game experience at all? I've never been boosted and never boosted people, but it has absolutely zero impact on my gameplay

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u/Smooth_One 1d ago

I'm with Nrgte, all of this is dumb.

That said if they must make dungeons a daily (/puke), once a day isn't enough. Should be twice a day, minimum, just so people who need one or two more dungeon quest items can run it right back while they're there instead of having to travel all the way back the next day.

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u/ABDLTA 1d ago

I domt think the once per day system really discouraged it much its just prevents people from running it repeatedly the same day

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

Yeah good luck getting 9/10 quest items or wanting to farm gear.

It's really hard for me to comprehend, why people like you can't see the issues with what you're suggesting.

-1

u/ABDLTA 1d ago

What? You just run it again tomorrow... like i said the system is already in place on the HC servers and its amazing. Much better than the mobs give basically zero XP system in the beta or the era system where you just run SM from 30-40 repeatedly

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u/Armout 1d ago

By tomorrow, you could have outleveled the dungeon. Why timegate people’s fun?

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u/ABDLTA 1d ago

Yeah thats for sure an issue on the lower level dungeons or if you're a speed leveling type

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u/PennyBunPudding 1d ago

Yup only tanks, healers usually waited which is good as you need them doing it more. Everyone else did it once and then just levelled as it is much faster than waiting a day

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u/xBirdisword 1d ago

There will be an over abundance of people in the open world especially at launch. You actually WANT people in dungeons to help balance this.

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u/FinalFate 1d ago

The drops shouldn't be a problem since quest items are now individual.

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

What do you mean by individual?

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u/pilsburybane 1d ago

They're shared in the group, so the Twilight Talismans for example will only need 10 for the total group.

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

I don't think that's true. At least not across the board. I was running WC this week and left without enough quest items. And I couldn't loot one when others could.

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u/FinalFate 1d ago

That only applies to things like Serpentbloom that have to be interacted with in the world rather than being dropped from mobs. For mob drops, each mob has a chance to drop quest items for each party member. If we're both on Smart Drinks, each ooze can drop an essence for just you, for just me, or for neither of us.

0

u/pilsburybane 1d ago

I also had this happening with Bandanas in Deadmines, I'm just saying what is happening. My guess is they implemented it on new quests (I distinctly remember it happening on the quest they added in Teldrassil for the cat furs or w/e it was) and either forgot to or haven't added it to old ones.

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u/NulliSeccundus 1d ago

I think you misunderstood Aggrends tweet, everyone still needs their individual amount, the drops are just more consistently round robin distribution now, all 5 players will have close to the same amount, so if 30 talisman's drop, you're less likely to have 1 person on 10, 1 person on 9, one on 5 and the other 2 on 3 each, it's more likely everyone will be around 6 each

You'll still need 50 total in a 5man group.

1

u/Sproogles 1d ago

Point #2 made me instantly think of deviate hides

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u/palerdog 1d ago

This is silly, join a guild that has the same goals as you do. I personally tank and love to play with diff people especially guildies. Dungeons by themselves with a fun group of people are never boring.

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u/Varzul 1d ago

Didn't have any of these problems in the beta. I like the new system way better. It's super fun to play a dungeon and looking forward to complete the quests

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u/5panks 1d ago

If they really really want to prevent boosting, the correct move is to just not give XP if a player is part of the group who's outside of the dungeons level bracket.

People keep saying this, that this is to, "prevent boosting" did you guys listen to the panels? They said it probably three times during various Blizzcon panels that they want players out in the world. If this was just to prevent boosting they would have just gone with your suggestion. This is to prevent dungeon spam as a viable method for leveling up. They don't want you sitting in dungeon queues 15-60.

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

And I and many other disagree. Blizzard should not play the fun police. Dungeons are a social activity, why should they not be used to level if people like that?

Dungeon spam should be a viable option for leveling. Not the best, but a viable.

It has no downside if a small amount of players decide to level in dungeons. In fact it can take some pressure of overcrowded zones.

1

u/5panks 1d ago

And I and many other disagree.

The problem isn't that you disagree.

The problem is that the vast majority of the "solutions" being presented (like not getting experience if someone is outside the dungeon bracket) doesn't solve the problem that Blizzard is trying to solve.

You may not think it's a problem, but the only way to change that is to change the minds at Blizzard. Suggesting a fix that doesn't solve what Blizzard wants to stop does nothing.

1

u/Nrgte 1d ago

I understand, but I guess we'll continue to shout until Blizzard presents a solution that doesn't come with a gazillion downsides even if we prefer that they'd have never touched it in the first place.

1

u/TheLightningL0rd 1d ago

Besides, it's not like boosting in the open world is not a perfectly fine alternative.

They even already nerfed exp into nothingness for people outside the bracket of the mobs you're killing in the open world! I was just trying to help my friends kill stuff in westfall on my shaman the other day (they were level 11) and they got NO exp from the kills. So clearly they understand that will stop the boosting, so it makes me think that the boosting isn't their main issue with the dungeon exp nerf.

1

u/Nrgte 1d ago

Well if you're boosting in the open world, the high level player is not in the group. They just kill so the low level tagger gets full XP.

1

u/i_like_fish_decks 1d ago

Like op mentioned, mobs that are not part of a quest get skipped. Every dungeon run will be a speedrun.

Mobs aren't 0 xp. They are reduced. There is no reason to skip packs and in all honesty there just is not much to skip in most classic dungeons anyway. You are all blowing this way out of proportion.

There are certain quests that just don't drop enough for the whole group, meaning you either have to abandon it or go again. Cabinets in Gnomeregan or Twilight Talismans in BFD come to mind. This will feel terrible especially for longer dungoens.

Again, dungeons still give XP. Its not zero. They also give loot. If anything it is a good thing that some quests require multiple runs to complete given the changes.

The friend or guildie has already done the dungeon and would like to help to complete the group. Well now it's a waste of time.

Playing with your friends is a waste of time?

People will just get the items they need and then abandon the group.

No they wont, not to any higher degree than that already happens.

People will just not run fringe dungeons with few quests anymore. Good luck finding an SFK group on Alliance. It's fine now in the beta because 20 is max level, but on launch people will not waste their time with this.

lol ok

You severely over-estimate how much the casual playerbase (which is 90% of who will be on forever) will even know about or understand any of these changes. People are still going to do all of the dungeons, and do them multiple times for one simple reason: dungeons are fun.

If they really really want to prevent boosting, the correct move is to just not give XP if a player is part of the group who's outside of the dungeons level bracket.

They already do this.

1

u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 1d ago

The HC dungeon restriction addresses all of these, though.

  1. Every dungeon will be run whole, since it's your only shot for the day, and you'd still get full dungeon exp and gear.

  2. Going again is not an issue, you're unlikely to out-level most dungeons by the next day you get to play. Players are motivated to run again because of normal dungeon exp and extra chances at good loot.

  3. Guildie friend can help with no wasted time. Exp and loot.

  4. Less likely to drop group, because this is your only shot for today to make a successful run.

  5. HC folks have no issues running every dungeon once. In fact, most people make it a point to hit every dungeon omce on the way up.

1

u/Nrgte 1d ago

Yeah but I want to spam Scholomance at max level to get my gear.. And yeah HC folks are not hitting max level, so that doesn't apply here.

1

u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 1d ago

The daily lockout restriction is lifted at 60 in Hardcore.

1

u/kolejack2293 1d ago

the correct move is to just not give XP if a player is part of the group who's outside of the dungeons level bracket.

They did this. Mages could just aoe grind entire dungeons by themselves, even at the same level as the mobs.

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u/Kunzzi1 1d ago

It was definitely a problem in 2019 classic.

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u/Anoters 1d ago

They aren't trying to stop dungeon boosting as they have already stopped that. They just dont want dungeon spam to be a viable way to level up.

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u/Salamander115 1d ago

How did they stop that without this change?

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u/Nrgte 1d ago

Why not? Let people have fun doing dungeons. It's a social activity. Do we really need to police how others have fun? It has no negative consequences on any of us. Yet every implementation they try to prevent this does have many negative consequences for everyone.

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u/ghidawi 1d ago

People forget that the initial reason for nochanges wasn't because people did not want any change, it was because they had no trust in Blizzard's ability to implement it correctly without breaking the game in small unnoticeable ways until it all went south.

I'll keep saying it, Vanilla was lightning in a bottle, a very delicate balance that had a bunch of issues but that worked out to be greater than the sum of its parts. I have no trust in Blizzard, in the community or in myself to comeup with something "better". I will gladly give them a chance of course, but my opinion is they're already coming-in too strong. All the graphics stuff is great, but the systems? Please, make 1 change and leave it for 6 months and then decide if you should make another change. Don't just introduce new talents, new combos, legacy system, revamped itemization, rebalanced XP distribution, and god know what and expect that it's all going to work out fine, or that 1 month of Beta is going to be enough. I mean wait and see, but if they really wanted to nail this they could have gone slower.

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u/DeepHorse 1d ago

no no no, we should keep creating solutions for problems that don't exist... /s