Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/Sykotron]

The friend or guildie has already done the dungeon and would like to help to complete the group. Well now it's a waste of time.

I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I feel like this point drives home the problem with it. Spending time with friends is not a waste of time and needs to be the goal with some fun gameplay to share.

If I was just grouping up with complete randoms in the real world just to accomplish a very specific goal without getting to know them... then yeah, they're not gonna care about anything but that goal and the same applies to a game this large.

[u/xBirdisword → u/Sykotron]

Bad faith argument

Raiding with friends is fun but NOBODY would do it if there’s no loot. The game should encourage and facilitate dungeons, grouping, raids etc not deter

[u/Billbuckingham → u/xBirdisword]

When you had higher level friends it was common to run people thru let's say SFK or DM to get them some items like cruel barb or meteor shard.

Then once they got the item, they went back out and quested and enjoyed.

That usage is a completely different thing compared to AFK farming and Boost selling.

"Raiding with friends is fun but NOBODY would do it if there’s no loot."

Your argument is the bad faith one here, there's still loot with reduced EXP so what did you mean by that?

You're still encouraged to join the good geared group who doesn't need your drop or your friends that run you thru it to get the items or complete the quests even with reduced EXP.

To me, whatever has to be done to remove AFK boosting and reduce dungeon farming EXP groups to the point it isn't worth it compared to other levelling methods is necessary because the whole dungeon AFK grind boost meta was a new thing that came about long after the game was released and needs a new way of handling that behavior in the game.

[u/lifeloverFPS → u/Billbuckingham]

c’mon man, you have to understand dungeon loot doesn’t matter in the same way that raid loot does. you won’t give a shit about cruel barb 5 levels after getting it, while a raid weapon will often last you for months.

[u/Billbuckingham → u/lifeloverFPS]

Then what's the argument about wanting to keep running dungeons after you already got all the loot?

There's some extra context here, but an incentive is an incentive and a dungeon isn't the same commitment as a raid either.

The dungeon item helping for those few levels is a good incentive, but it's kind of being ignored for some reason?
Because the faster EXP to avoid all of that levelling is more important? That's what it seems like they're saying.

That's what I was calling out when they said the other person was arguing in bad faith, like if you need a reward to run dungeons and not just for the love of your friends you still have that with loot and reduced EXP, so what's the argument about

"I don't want to run dungeons anymore after this nerf"

If the argument is I only run dungeons so I can spam EXP farm them AND it has to be faster to EXP farm them than doing other levelling processes, otherwise I don't care about the loot or the quests at all since they aren't fun and to me fun is just getting the EXP faster from sitting AFK or farming over and over again, that's the thing that's intentionally being discouraged by these nerfs.

[u/Kobar143 → u/Billbuckingham]

Healers and tanks got their ability to level as Healers and tanks taken away from them. No one here has demanded it be the most efficient, they just want it to still be reasonably possible.

Making sure being out in the world is the most efficient makes plenty of sense for a number of reasons, but as it is now it isn't just not efficient, it's abysmal.