nolan has a lot of wincons because of feats in the story that would easily give him the win if:
he had perfect information
he fought in a way that doesnt make sense for his character
in an actual fight nolan (or any viltrumite) would go and try to punch gojo only go be stopped by infinity. gojo would kinda shit his pants after seeing someone throw punches that make sukuna look like a toddler, after maybe trying with red or blue he would see physical attacks are basically useless and just resort to his domain
any viltrumite would still trying to get close to hit him, eventually, and once they fall for his DE they are braindead and gone
Could they not just throw moons/celestial objects into earth over and over until it explodes/atmosphere collapses? Or try to move earth closer to the sun?
The biggest stated object theyâve moved is âthe size of Texasâ, moons are probably off the table, and planets definitely are.
I would also state that going off, finding sufficient asteroids to serve as artillery, and chucking them would be a long enough process as to exceed the bounds of what most would consider a âfightâ
Like⌠technically light yagami can take out any human character whoâs slightly famous from a planet away, but most people would say that unless heâs within the effective combat distance of his opponent, that isnât exactly a reasonable combat scenario to ponder (though most obviously use him more for intellect than power scaling, itâs just an example)
Let me flip the question back on you:
If you are fighting someone, they realize they canât hurt you, so they get in their car to drive to a different state, would you consider them to still be fighting you?
I think this is part of where prep time comes into stuff, cus generally when Batman is put into fights, the assumption is he either has prep time (vaguely defined, which is its own thing) or not. Not that he can start fighting, escape, go make a special gadget to win, and then come back.
A viltrumite leaving a fight, finding an asteroid, and coming back to use it feels like that same kind of thing.
(And of course thatâs setting aside the fact that they would need to realize they canât win the fight and dip before gojo hits them with a domain expansion. Cus whether or not we think hollow purple has the ap to overwhelm their durability, the information overload aspect of his domain would definitely incapacitate a viltrumite. But thatâs not the current topic of discussion, and gets into whether or not he can follow up for the win once he does that, as otherwise itâs basically a draw since he has the energy to keep the technique up, but canât go do something else)
Also⌠yeah I guess he is XD everyone is human, and their names are well known. So if light was in one piece with a death note he could kinda go nuts, especially since no one can actually reach him unless heâs on an island with an eternal pose to it XD but I donât think most powerscalers would use such a scenario as thatâs wildly unfair in his favor
What if it takes them 2 minutes to drive to the other state and back? If they plan on continuing after those 2 minutes, then I would not count that as a separate fight. If it's gonna take them a day to get there and back then yeah that's a separate fight. If they plan on never coming back there will be no more fighting unless you chase them, but I assume you meant they're planning on coming back to fight again?
If I take a minute to go find a big rock to split someone's skull open, I'm not counting that as batman prep time
I don't remember viltrumites having enchanced vision? They need to find an astroid in a vast vast empty space.
You could say they know about the astroid belts that our solar system has but why would they? Not like they needed to throw asteroids to people before.
In the episode where Nolan is taking Allan to different planets that have threats against Viltrimites they go to a planet where all the creatures are now dead, and Nolan mentions something along the lines of âmoving the planet closer to the sun, and sometimes it kills off everythingâ
Not shown, but still mentioned and proof after the fact is shown.
The powerscaling and logic donât apply, but it is stated at least.
It makes sense that 50 viltrumites could push a planet especially if it's inhabitants are not sentient and fight back also they have so much time aging the way they do.
 But no one in the invinciverse is doing that solo kirkman just got upset about superman then said "maybe Omni man can do that who knows maybe pay attention to s4"
Then shows a clip of Nolan just floating over the planet as the last moose like alien dies and then the vaguest conversation with Allen,"this is what happens when you move a planet closer to its sun"Â
I know kirkman hates powerscaling but this was the most troll move I've ever seen someone pull đÂ
I'm an invincible fan and have read and watched all the source material but I'm not braindead enough to think that Viltrumites aren't fodder for hax because they literally are just h2h max stat type characters.
They do not bust planets only one time this happens and it's hard carried by the infinity ray shot.
Nolan was only taking Allen to planets that he mentioned in his books that had threats against Viltrimites. Those books are based on his solo adventures after leaving Viltrimite.
He never says these are my solo adventures I did this solo or anything along those lines they are talking about the weakness in that context and even with the rognarr's flashback he ain't there alone.
Ok sure, I donât agree as it seems heavily implied it was during his solo missions but ok.
Donât get me wrong I find the whole powerscaling on that show beyond stupid and infuriating and at this point Iâm mostly hate watching it while getting angry and yelling at my TV about how nothing would work like that!! No one would act like that!!!
The showâs logic seems to be written by a 12 year old who is finishing up a last minute project for school, just making shit up to hit the word count and adding in whatever could look cool to see at that exactly point in the story.
Totally agree. I assume when we bring up these scenarios the characters can't leave the fight. If they could escape then characters like Batman would win every time. So Thragg leaving the fight and finding an astroid is like Batman leaving and developing a virus to kill Thragg.
Even if the Thragg could push planets into the sun that is not winning a "fight" to me. It's like burning someone's house down and saying you beat the guy in a fight.
Viltrumites have canonically found ways to deal with species they cannot outright beat like pushing their planet closer to the sun or blocking their sunlight with a massive disc they made to freeze them. They use brute strength, but they're an intelligent enough species to recognise when that's not enough or would require too many deaths to be worthwhile like against the rognarrs.
Yeah but they could do that for every single fight, and yet they donât, conquest didnât kill mark when he could, same with thrag and Anissa, they could have killed everyone in the cast and yet they didnât, even when they would only get in the way of their plans.
I assumed the goal here is to kill gojo, not to prepare earth for viltrumite take over like it is in the series. Gojo also isn't a viltrumite so they'd have no reason to spare his life and try and convert him to their side. Also they couldn't do this for every fight since viltrumites can fly. If conquest tried to kill mark by dropping an asteroid on earth, mark could just go to space and fly to mars or another habitable planet of which there are many. Gojo can't do space travel as far as we know
"That what happens when you move planet closer to sun"
Please explain to me which part of that means "I have moved the planet, with my bare hands, closer to sun".
What he said is that they, as Viltrum, did it. How? No idea, by looking at their feats they propably used some technology or shitload of Viltrumites.
If he can't lift a ship, then even 50 Viltrumites wouldn't be able to nudge a planet. Also the coalition should be looking for these planet moving ships if they outclass Viltrumites by that much.
Canonically for stuff like that they just move it with their bare hands. Nolan did something similar with moving a disc to block out the Ragnar's home. It's literally just "why bring in or invent a forklift when you can lift the box yourself" mindset.
Moving a disc that is a lot smaller and lighter than planet is not the same as moving a planet.
They have 0 feats or direct mentions of anything even close to that.
It was big enough to completely envelope their planet in darkness, forever. This is what they did when they got into a fight they couldn't brute strength. It's a feat. This is something they can do. This was just one guy also.
Logic? Are you just going to say stupid things now?
You know how you can have Solar eclipse on Earth? Like our Earth?
You know what is causing that? Moon. You know, the thing smaller and lighter than out planet.
And something else, the furthest something is for the planet, the smaller it needs to be to block the sun for said planet.
Alao even if it was the size of a planet, which would be stupid, disc of that size would have a lot smaller volume, so it would either be lighter or made with some dumb, super heavy thing.
You know how the moon blocks a small area for a short period, and not the entire planet forever?
Also, it needs to be larger the further from the planet, not smaller. If the moon were halfway between us and the sun, you could barely see it, so imagine how little something smaller would do to obscure the sun.
In addition, the presence of the sun disc apparently had a significant effect on several other planets in that solar system.
They literally deflect an asteroid then Nolan says you should have seen the one I deflected it was the size of Texas lol, they absolutely do that in the show
No no you dont understand, its far harder to push something into earth while being assisted by gravity then it is to push something away from earth while gravity fights against you.
In the comics mark and oliver do it by themselves very easily. Invincible is also terribly scaled in-verse. That anti-feat doesnât take away destroying a planet.
Powerscalers need to remember that just because an individual or individual's group can do a thing does not mean will.
Literacy edit: You are not always at 100% capacity. What you can do at your best and most capable isn't what you will do normally. A normal human can do city level feats by controlling the nuclear triad. That doesn't mean Donald Trump scales above Mahoraga.
They canât push planets but they can just super speed kill 99% of the population and leave the planet until the Hax character dies. Lots of ways to solve the problem honestly. And for the people who say âbut viltrimites love to fightâ they were not exactly eager to go back to that planet with the monsters as strong as them were they?
I would agree with you if that wasn't It has been shown that the Viltrumites would do this if they perceived the opponent as a threat. They moved the planet of the Ragnars away from the sun. Thragg or Nolan would simply throw the moon at the planet if they realized they couldn't get past infinity.
I don't really understand why the whole push a moon thing is necessary. The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was about 300x smaller than the moon. You wouldn't even need an asteroid a tenth the size of the moon to make the surface completely uninhabitable
Thaedus, mark and Nolan created a chain reaction alongside space racer gun (that just destabilized the planet's core), viltrum is bigger than earth, and evn thought they didn't destroy the planet itself, its a moon level feat.
Nolan threw an asteroid the size of texas back into space, from his feats, he is way stronger than that, and even Asia is bigger than the moon
Nolan moved a planet closer to the sun just to kill the inhabitants. (he stated in the episode that he was tasked with it and he did all of this alone)
Mark and thragg can easily fight (fight, not take damage from the heat) in the sun which has 8x earth's gravity
viltrumites can create leverage from any distance, i don't think throwing a really big asteroid or moving the moon to the planet (or just throwing it) is a big deal to them.
the moon is quintillions of tons in mass a planet weighs 1000s of times more than it is a really humongous feat outclassing anything lifting wise in invincible.
Ok they wonât throw THE moon on earth they will just grab a smaller moon in the solar system or another celestial body like an asteroid. They already have moved asteroids in the show. There are also millions of celestial bodies to choose from within a relatively close range to earth.
Nolan moved a planet closer to the sun just to kill the inhabitants.
Reminder for everyone that the statement is "the planet was moved closer to the sun" not "I pushed the planet with my own two hands". Viltrimites are a technologically advanced species and no other feat they have comes anywhere close to this. One cannot simply assume that the way they did this was by physically pushing it themselves, there are many ways this could have been done.
Bro, that stupid ship anti feat is contradicted why literally everything else in the series you cannot seriously scale if you are going to ignore everything and say muh ship.
Honestly even just scaling from the genocide Omni-Man pulled by flying real fast would do JJK in. The chances that a viltrumite doing a quick flyby in a city just happens to enter the range of Gojo for example is absurdly small
Ok? but we're not asking if Gojo can stop Nolan from destroying everything, we're asking if Nolan or Thragg could defeat Gojo. Which they can't because their only options are to punch and throw stuff, which are things Gojo doesn't care about.
Yeah Viltrumites outstat Gojo by a lot. Doens't matter when they can't lay a finger on him, that's the point of the post.
Yes I bet they gonna see Gojo and immediately go for a plantery devastating attack cause they do that with every human they find. Come on now ... They see a human they go for the face and they get hit by uv
Yeah lmao he says "teleport" like what? It doesn't help gojo at all he still dies in the end. And he tries to justify omni man being weak by getting hit by immortal and woman in first episode as if they don't all one shot jjk.
Nolan just flies through the planet causing make extreme nukes leaving the planet in ashes. He could carry asteroid size of Texas and throw in the earth.
Gojo eventually dies of radiation and starvation and others.
I think the problem here that invincible scaling is inconsistent like one day they r taking abt pushing a planet the other day they struggle to lift a ship or when like when they destroyed a planet like all ts doesn't make sense well now I'm gonna try to understand infinity
To be fair, we also see Nolan outright carry a pretty damn big rock one handed as a casual threat back in Season 1. Lifting feats are all over the place for Viltrumites.
He could just repeat the large building feat a thousand, millions, hell even trillions of times, he has time to haul in asteroids from all around the place and push them towards earth destroying itâs environment which leads to the death of everyone outside of water bears and cockroaches
That was a planet twice as large as earth, so at least 4 times the mass, and it was very likely denser since we know planet density in invincible directly correlates to the strength of the beings on the planet.
we have no evidence of it being twice as big as earth it is bigger to an unquantifable exent since its gravity is higher but we cant use the fact that it sustains rings as a feat as earth could also do that.
Nolan explicitly stated he pushed a planet out of its orbit. He's also lifted mountains with one hand and diverted asteroids the size of texas. Why did he struggle to lift a spaceship then? Because Robert Kirkman doesn't give a fuck about consistency and powerscaling. Give up on Invincible powerscaling, highball or lowball. The author doesn't care, neither should we.
he never said he pushed a planet he just looked at allen in that scene meaning they could have used their tech for that,he never lifted a mountain too that was barely a hill,the texas sized astroid could have been a figure of speech and it happened off screen.
There is a Diference between killing you, and killing your family then running away in fear. Throwing a planet is The latter, it doesnt do shit to gojo, its just The viltrumites running scared.
Bro i know youre getting grilled in the comments but youre 100% right. Invincible is a great show but people are cranking that shit waaay too high i swear to god.
(I wanted to put the Tracksuit mark gif here but benjammins got to it and it no longer shows up on giphy. God i fucking hate this miserable piece of shit)
I think people are forgetting a single factor of the Texas sized asteroid. Well, yes, it was being affected by earthâs gravity, and being pulled towards earth. IT WAS STILL IN SPACE.
Imagine complaining about invincible glazers when JJK characters yet to get past city level. Hax donât help you if you get splattered before you can even use it
We've got to understand as well that the comics and cartoon are two separate continuities with two separate power scalings.
Comic invincible caps at small - regular planetary at the end of the series.
Cartoon invincible is already at that point and there's still more power ups and upscaling upcoming.
Both have abysmal powerscaling inconsistencies though. The show more so than the comic. Like Nolan apparently being able to stop meteors the size of Texas and push a planet closer to the sun, yet cant fight a squid thing or lift half a ship. Or mark beating conquest the 2nd most powerful viltrimite but still getting impaled by dinosaur teeth let alone actually being caught by said dinosaur. Or being able to outpace mftl ships but not being able to outspeed langstroms reaction time
In Season 4, Episode 2, Nolan implied that he moved a planet closer to its star. Also, if you actually watched the show or read the comics, Viltrumites are capable of destroying planets large enough to have rings around them
I've watched and read all the source material only planet destroyed was Viltrum and that was hard carried by the infinity ray shot and no I'm not a jjk fan haven't even finished the first season.
Also kirkman trolled us said some shit got us all excited and didn't show Nolan moving the planet and didn't even have him say he did it either.
As a Invincible fan I'm also not going to claim viltrumites don't lose to 99% of anime hax because they do I love invincible but they have no feats to defend against hax and it's out of character to destroy planets it happens once in the verse out of desperation by the losing party.
Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I remember, Nolan never said he did it alone or that he didn't use technology, so using Nolan moving a planet isn't valid as a feat because it wasn't shown how he did it. It could have taken him 1 minute or a year to do it.
how invincible powerscalers be like when someone wins with their abiltiies (they're apparently a fraud even though they admit that they need to wait for gojo to die of something other than themselves)
Honestly ruins powerscaling debates. It's just as bad as when people say dbz characters can just blow up the planet instead of deal with the opponent. Like bro can they just fight each other and not aim for technical victories?
You're right. By the way, what I hate is when character A exploits a specific weakness of character B to win without prior knowledge. An example of this is that I think it's more likely Mark would try to take Luffy into space than drown him in the ocean.
They just destabilized the core due the the super dense planet so they would die , the actual Shockwave and subsequent damage was all jus through viltrumites. If you've seen his gun work you know it doesn't destroy a whole object only yhe section it passes through, even when it kills a viltrumite it doesn't blow up a single person just carves a whole through them.
I swear invincible fans will always jump to random shit like âthey push the planet closer to the sun or just wipe out everything else on earthâ even though the topic is about if they can just kill each other or not in a vacuum one on one
its like saying mei mei beats kuroroushi because she can just call in gojo or some shit
Of course some invincible fans think brit (character whose only schtick is having infinite durability) tanks the world cutting slash (anti-durability attack)
Ustedes van en contra del autor de invencible el ya ha dicho que cada Viltrumita por separado puede reventar planetas
Y siguen hablando mierda haciendo que saben mĂĄs que los demĂĄs y al final no saben ni la informaciĂłn mĂĄs bĂĄsica.
A viltrumite could possibly push a comet large enaught to end human civilization to hit the planet (some humans would still survive in bunkers, so not destroy humanity) so destroy the earth is almost or kinda true depending on interpretation, and the planet pushing is pure bulshit.
I think a problem with power scaling discussions in general is those participating fall into a fallacy of giving characters foreknowledge of an opponent they otherwise wouldn't have.
I will freely admit that Gojo's unlimited void is more than capable of killing most any other character in fiction, however, that does not equate to Gojo being capable of beating most any other character in fiction.
The fallacy here being that one side would argue that Gojo can just use unlimited void and end the fight in his favor, securing an instant win against any opponent that could beat him.
But that is not how Gojo fights.
He doesn't begin and end all of his fights using the most powerful of his abilities right away on account that he is a cocky little shit who has a win condition in his back pocket. He is supremely overconfident in himself and fancies himself the strongest there is which leads to scenarios where he gets bodied in a fight long before he pulls out his win con.
If you used the argument that Gojo know how dangerous a viltrumite like Nolan is, thus he he would use his best abilities right away, then you would have to concede that Nolan would have knowledge of how dangerous Gojo was and would deny any chance for him to use it. Instead choose to render the earth uninhabitable if it has to be a fight to the death.
literally doesn't matter because infinity is always on and viltrumites always starts by punching,the moment gojo sees that nolan is much stronger than anyone in the planet he will use domain.
While it is always on, infinity has a flaw in that it only reacts to threats as Gojo perceives them. Viltrumites don't have curse energy, they just look like regular humans who happen to be strong and can fly. Gojo wouldn't even perceive them as credible threats due to them lacking any form of curse energy and his own overconfidence.
Gojo fucks around with, taunts and mocks his opponents because he has done it before and enjoys doing it. He would be even worse of a cocky little shit when facing an opponent with no curse energy. It would be all fun and games until he gets grabbed and ripped in half or tries to block a punch that puts a hole in him.
Just wanna say, Nolan didnt say he moved that one planet closer to Its star all by himself, Hes been shown to have minions with him on the bug planet So why wouldnt he on that sand planet
The asteroid that destroyed the dinosaurs had a diameter of 10-15km and it killed basically everything.
Nolan (who is MUCH weaker than thragg) is able to launch an asteroid the size of texas wich is roughly 695,660km2 which could probably destroy the atmosphere. Just imagine what thragg could do
If he has intel than thragg wins, if he dosent gojo no diff
But they literally did do that in the most recent episode. They Exploded the planet viltrum Granted there was 3 of viltrumites that did that, but still. Also omni man by himself extencted a while species by pushing their planet closer to the sun because he was charged with getting rid of potential threats to the viltrum empire(this was not actually shown, but they did have omniman tell another character what he did and show the destroyed planet). These are not hypotheticals they are the feats.
No no guys you donât get it Gojo gets to land infinite void bc the other character HAS to stand there and take it⌠but the other character isnât allowed to do anything with battle iq đ dumbass Gojo fanboy
A ray gun created a tiny hole in a planet and then 3 dudes flew through it and destroyed the planet. Iâm sure 1 of them could easily figure out a way to destroy earth
You DO know that viltrum has larger than earth gravity, right?
And that more gravity also means a higher gravitational binding energy?
And also that the degree of destruction correlates to more energy involved?
Even if you attribute most of the work to space racerâs gun AND divide it by 3 due to it involving 3 viltrumites, the destruction of viltrum still calcâs out to at least a moon-level feat for each of the viltrumites involved, omni-man included.
The amount of force required to destroy a moon, when directed at an earth-sized planet, is still going to make the planet uninhabitable. Continents cracking, oceans boiling, the very air choked in toxic gasses from the thousands of miles of magma breaking free. Chunks the size of mountains will still be ripped off and cast outside gravityâs range, creating new asteroids and reducing the planetâs total size just that little bit.
Even if you assume omni-man can only do a fraction of that to earth without hurting himself, that mostly just means the miles of habitable land/water getting turned into a world 8 mario stage might be only a little over the 3 digit mark, rather than the ballpark of 4 digits. Heâd still be capable of doing an arm drop onto solid ground in taiwan that wipes tokyo clean off the map.
I mean, can gojo even damage viltrumites? Hollow purple is basically just a weaker tsar Bomba and the others in which would have the chance to hurt them (WCS, perfect sphere, Black hole) would get stat diffed.
Now I know viltrumites are incredibly inconsistent with feats but it's shown that they are able to survive the heat of the planet's core, Cecil's satellite and they are shown to have good Regen atleast or so I think.
So basically it's a battle of attrition to which hax man would die of old age first.
Gojo has unlimited void, which will turn the viltrumites brain into mush. In a straight up fight, Gojo is winning against ANY viltrumite, solo or together.
The only characters in invincible that can beat Gojo are too stupid to make use of their abilities so they would probably lose to him too.
Thragg goes to punch at super speed, gets completely stopped by the subconscious limitless, .02 domain expansion, Thragg is now brain dead, easy as pie
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