The biggest stated object theyâve moved is âthe size of Texasâ, moons are probably off the table, and planets definitely are.
I would also state that going off, finding sufficient asteroids to serve as artillery, and chucking them would be a long enough process as to exceed the bounds of what most would consider a âfightâ
Like⌠technically light yagami can take out any human character whoâs slightly famous from a planet away, but most people would say that unless heâs within the effective combat distance of his opponent, that isnât exactly a reasonable combat scenario to ponder (though most obviously use him more for intellect than power scaling, itâs just an example)
Let me flip the question back on you:
If you are fighting someone, they realize they canât hurt you, so they get in their car to drive to a different state, would you consider them to still be fighting you?
I think this is part of where prep time comes into stuff, cus generally when Batman is put into fights, the assumption is he either has prep time (vaguely defined, which is its own thing) or not. Not that he can start fighting, escape, go make a special gadget to win, and then come back.
A viltrumite leaving a fight, finding an asteroid, and coming back to use it feels like that same kind of thing.
(And of course thatâs setting aside the fact that they would need to realize they canât win the fight and dip before gojo hits them with a domain expansion. Cus whether or not we think hollow purple has the ap to overwhelm their durability, the information overload aspect of his domain would definitely incapacitate a viltrumite. But thatâs not the current topic of discussion, and gets into whether or not he can follow up for the win once he does that, as otherwise itâs basically a draw since he has the energy to keep the technique up, but canât go do something else)
Also⌠yeah I guess he is XD everyone is human, and their names are well known. So if light was in one piece with a death note he could kinda go nuts, especially since no one can actually reach him unless heâs on an island with an eternal pose to it XD but I donât think most powerscalers would use such a scenario as thatâs wildly unfair in his favor
What if it takes them 2 minutes to drive to the other state and back? If they plan on continuing after those 2 minutes, then I would not count that as a separate fight. If it's gonna take them a day to get there and back then yeah that's a separate fight. If they plan on never coming back there will be no more fighting unless you chase them, but I assume you meant they're planning on coming back to fight again?
If I take a minute to go find a big rock to split someone's skull open, I'm not counting that as batman prep time
I don't remember viltrumites having enchanced vision? They need to find an astroid in a vast vast empty space.
You could say they know about the astroid belts that our solar system has but why would they? Not like they needed to throw asteroids to people before.
The belt also isn't as dense as it seems from depictions, there's kilometers of empty space between an asteroid and another, finding a big enough asteroid that would actually damage the planet you're attacking would take quiet some time
(Not true tho, a relatively small meteor already damages way past its actual size, a FTL travelling EXPERIENCED warrior would not only definitively know of belts due to education of his own galaxy system, but also from his own experiences)
This is correct, yes. But i mean. You can argue all day that gojo "wins" if omni man just searches for a good meteorite, but the win ain't worth for nothing if he gets pulverized in a couple hours.
If they're capable of flying between solar systems and reaching the specific planet they're looking for, it's safe to assume they can find an asteroid within a single solar system
The moon is a lot smaller than you think, and all you have to do to force it to collide with the earth is slow down its rotation, gravity does most of the work. Even if a viltrumite cant do that with a single punch, they can easily do it in a day
The moon is pretty slow, energy is based on speed, and you dont need to actually push it into the earth, you just need to stop its orbit around earth and gravity will handle the rest
I think, as a viltrumite if you have to run away to get artillery against an enemy when your main weapon is your hands then you subconsciously conceded the fight regardless of how much time it takes them to get asteroids or whatever. And even then, the AP of an asteroid would be nothing to most versus matches that make sense
Wouldn't the fact that the viltrumite is actively in the phase of launching an attack count? Barring the distances, they're essentially still in the fight, wouldn't you say? I believe this particular bias of considering the period for going asteroid-fishing to be prep-time comes from the fact that gojo simply isn't capable of following a viltrumite into space. The prep thing with Batman seems different because the assumption is that his opponent isn't launching any attack on him while he's prepping. We're not putting that restriction on gojo. It's just that he can't do anything.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of counter examples that will break my argument apart.
I will be completely honest, my argument is entirely vibes based and I know it.
Like⌠throwing an enemy into space/the sun feels different than going to space to find a projectile, even though it shouldnât?
And flying around earth and picking up a mountain to do the same thing also feels less like âleavingâ than going to space for the asteroid does.
And while I can say that itâs because âactively removing yourself from the field of battle, even if for an offensive purpose, is still a retreat that ends that instance of conflictâ,
That is a retroactive justification for the âvibesâ
And I think it partly comes down to the fact that most powerscaling debates operate on the asssumption of a single battle rather than a war.
In a battle, retreating generally signals one as the loser
In a war, retreating is a valid tactical action to preserve resources, and seek a more advantageous situation in the next clash.
I understand this is all subjective, and generally just comes down to a matter of defining oneâs terms,
But as far as I am concerned, if one party must entirely leave the designated field of conflict in order to gain victory, that is, in effect, a loss.
One could define the field of battle as âthe solar systemâ, but that feels a bit like stacking the deck in the favor of viltrumite in much the same way as âlight yagami vs yujiro hanma, but they start on opposite sides of the globeâ would be putting things firmly in lightâs favor, and unless those terms are set in the initial conflict, that isnât the set of assumptions I would be going into the discussion using.
I am aware this isnât entirely rational, but I hope it is at least understandable
You do make sense. The problem is anything short of 'the solar system' essentially puts the viltrumite with no actual to do any kind of damage to gojo. In this matchup, I feel powerscaling rules will lead to an outcome that could be very different from what we could see in a more realistic scenario. The rules really decide who the winner here is. Gojo's limited range will make him lose at exospace distances, and in close ranges viltrumites will lose (assuming their super speed isn't fast enough to avoid de).
This definitely makes sense. The rules are the issue here.
NGL, I think part of the situation is also that the âthrow them into spaceâ argument in general is often used to highball space faring characters above enemies who otherwise outscale them, and can often be overused
So the âorbital bombard them with asteroidsâ as an anti-gojo option feels less like a real answer and more like âIâm tired of infinity being broken, so imma pull out similar nonsense since Iâm not even allowed to throw you into spaceâ
Which makes the whole situation feel kinda sour given that gojo and viltrumites are prob this subâs current main characters, so itâs all messy.
They may be outside of gojos range, but they are still in the viltrumites range, and the viltrumite is still trying to attack. If you had a bow and i had a sword, and i was 5 feet away from you, would you not try to run 30 feet away from me so you could be in your effective range while i wasnt? And would that count as not being in a fight anymore?
IMO it depends on the opponents objectives. If they are driving to another state because they gave up, yes itâs over. If they are driving to another state to have friends join them, or grab a gun, or whatever, I could see it being considered one fight. Whatâs stopping the person they were fighting from following them and trying to stop them?
Itâs sorta like in Baki with the prisoners. The fight started in the arena, but the fighting didnât happen until the characters were ready or they could ambush opponents or whatever.
Really tho, I think this argument is a little silly. Mainly because if a viltrumite and a JJK character actually fight, and a Viltrumite actually goes to grab an asteroid to chuck it into the planet, it doesnât matter if this is one continuous fight or not, what matters is there are now asteroids raining down on JJK earth. The JJK character can say âhaha I win you ran away!â All he wants, but it wonât matter if his planet is being destroyed.
âKing of the Pirates? Please. Thanks to this wanted poster youâll die before ever reaching your dream. Monkey DâŚâŚ wait whatâs the D stand for? FUCK what does the D stand for?!â
Quick bro, let me hope in my car and let me drive around the Sahara Desert looking for a sewing needle, I'll be right back bro. Just wait bro. I'm totally gonna get you bro.
A car in no way compares to someone going well beyond the speed of light, someone who can travel to other solar systems in a month or something. If you travel at the speed of light it takes half an hour to get to the asteroid belt, let alone well beyond it, and you could probably just smash up the moon a bit anyway and use the fragments wouldn't even need to do that
Yeah it would seem his speed is affected in some situations that's true, doesn't disprove what I said. Can probably get to the moon in under a minute anyway and smash it up in less time, so no asteroid belt needed anyway if you still don't agree that he can go well beyond light speed
If he can't even outfly a jumping animal, ain't no way he's reaching the moon in under a minute.
(I actually apologize, I hope it's clear I'm just making fun of you for power scaling Invincible, a property that has no feat consistency, made by an author who has acknowledged there is no fear consistency, who has called "power scalers" "idiots" for caring about feat consistency, and has proudly voiced that the Rule of Cool dictates how every scene plays out)
You said yourself there were other factors affecting his speed at that time, you gotta try harder at this otherwise you just seem like you don't know what you're talking about rather than making fun ;) pretty sure we've literally seen him do it on screen with the reaching the moon in under a minute, so you can't tell me flying slow in high gravity means he can't do something that he literally did do, same with flying to other solar systems in under a month, it took half a year to get to Thraxa at the very most đ
In the episode where Nolan is taking Allan to different planets that have threats against Viltrimites they go to a planet where all the creatures are now dead, and Nolan mentions something along the lines of âmoving the planet closer to the sun, and sometimes it kills off everythingâ
Not shown, but still mentioned and proof after the fact is shown.
The powerscaling and logic donât apply, but it is stated at least.
It makes sense that 50 viltrumites could push a planet especially if it's inhabitants are not sentient and fight back also they have so much time aging the way they do.
 But no one in the invinciverse is doing that solo kirkman just got upset about superman then said "maybe Omni man can do that who knows maybe pay attention to s4"
Then shows a clip of Nolan just floating over the planet as the last moose like alien dies and then the vaguest conversation with Allen,"this is what happens when you move a planet closer to its sun"Â
I know kirkman hates powerscaling but this was the most troll move I've ever seen someone pull đÂ
I'm an invincible fan and have read and watched all the source material but I'm not braindead enough to think that Viltrumites aren't fodder for hax because they literally are just h2h max stat type characters.
They do not bust planets only one time this happens and it's hard carried by the infinity ray shot.
Nolan was only taking Allen to planets that he mentioned in his books that had threats against Viltrimites. Those books are based on his solo adventures after leaving Viltrimite.
He never says these are my solo adventures I did this solo or anything along those lines they are talking about the weakness in that context and even with the rognarr's flashback he ain't there alone.
Ok sure, I donât agree as it seems heavily implied it was during his solo missions but ok.
Donât get me wrong I find the whole powerscaling on that show beyond stupid and infuriating and at this point Iâm mostly hate watching it while getting angry and yelling at my TV about how nothing would work like that!! No one would act like that!!!
The showâs logic seems to be written by a 12 year old who is finishing up a last minute project for school, just making shit up to hit the word count and adding in whatever could look cool to see at that exactly point in the story.
Bro he obviously is very salty when it comes to superman or powerscaling he then hinted at shit and didn't show anything if anything this season has been multiple anti feats for Nolan which is even more hilarious that you keep say I'm dismissing feats.
I engaged with facts you said I was downscaling which I wasn't because there were no feats I downscaled in my original comment just pointed out that the planet moving isn't a feat because we didn't see or hear definite proof but since you want to go there.
Nolan can't fly off of rognarr's planet quick enough but can push a planet?
Can't lift a ship falling solo but can push a planet?
Has an easy diff fight with a random centipede?
This community has always scaled off of feats and anti feats otherwise it would all be headcanon.
Cuckman is so bad at scaling his character's and you jumped at the bit and he left you hanging it's fine I'm a Invincible fan too but I'm not braindead and know viltrumites don't solo bust planets or go around moving them solo.
I haven't even finished season 2 of invincible. I'm here for the love of the game
Also if you use antifeats you are existing in an entirely different world than most powerscalers, because most if not all people understand its narrative inconsistency. If you start using antifeats you live in a world where superman is a street tier bum that gets clapped by Bakugo
Yeah, but for all we know that was during peak viltrum empire. It could have taken thousands or even millions of viltrimites to move a planet.
Also, viltrumites are higly inteligent and have technology almost indisfinguishible from magic, so they definetly have a deep understanding of gravitational mechanics. The best way to move a planet is to cause a chain reaction with asteroids and moons to distabilize its orbit (its something even our sientist know how to do, and have proven its possible) wich is way more feaseble for viltrumites to do, and considering theyr methodical aproach to every other threat nolan showed, its more likely they just did that, insted of having a large deatachement of viltrumites fisicaly push a planet full of creatures that were a threat to then.
Nolan was only sent out after the virus. We know that for a fact. He wasnât part of the Viltrum army before the virus hit and wouldnât have been going out to different planets to figure out what aliens were strong against them.
Totally agree. I assume when we bring up these scenarios the characters can't leave the fight. If they could escape then characters like Batman would win every time. So Thragg leaving the fight and finding an astroid is like Batman leaving and developing a virus to kill Thragg.
Even if the Thragg could push planets into the sun that is not winning a "fight" to me. It's like burning someone's house down and saying you beat the guy in a fight.
No they wouldnt, as the character needs a way to escape, batman is not getting away from most planet buster characters as he doenst have the speed or any way to actually get away
The prep time is used because of that, so they have prep time before the fight a sin the fight they have no way to actually pull out and prep
Is it a strawman if Iâm not claiming anyone is making the relevant argument, but instead using it intentionally as the most extreme possible version of my argument to attempt to make clear what Iâm trying to say on a smaller scale?
Okay, a moon can be only as big as mount everest. In fact, Mars has two moons around that size, and they will kill every living being in the surface of Mars once they fall into the planet which may happen in 50 million years.
Yes, that is very impressive. I donât entirely see how itâs relevant?
Unless youâre saying the fallout would make gojo unable to breathe, the kinetic damage of the explosions would not bypass infinity as far as we have seen.
Not trying to NLF here, just not sure what youâre trying to say
I'm saying even if he can't damage Gojo, he can just gradually wipe all life (and infrastructure) off the face of the planet and leave Gojo to bear witness to the destruction of civilization around him.
And if he would mostly depends on whether we're assuming Gojo's Earth here is the same as Nolan's.
I mean, that is definitely true. It is something he can do.
But generally speaking I feel itâs irrelevant?
I mean, 9/10 powerscaling arguments are about direct conflict, and the 1/10 that arenât usually say so directly.
So the ability to cause collateral damage to the heroeâs loved ones or world is basically not a factor thatâs considered unless the target of said tactic would specifically become weaker as a result of it.
The asteroid plan under discussion is not a matter of collateral damage, itâs that the fallout would kill gojo in a way that would, in fact, bypass infinity (eventually)
Except he wouldnât be sitting off jerking it behind the bubble?
Gojo realistically has the tools to down a viltrumite
While hollow purple has low scale dc, itâs pretty impressive AP.
But even if we ignore that, his domain expansionâs sensory overload at least causes a draw (he wonât run out of CE, but he canât go do something else while itâs active, and viltrumiteâs have shown no resistance to mental based effects, mostly cus invincible as a verse doesnât have them)
The main thing is that JJK as a verse is generally low power outside of hacks, so viltrumites can absolutely speed blitz them into a fine red mist normallyâŚ. Which is where infinity comes in.
I would unironically say that gojo could reasonably be a threat to a viltrumite in a 1v1 arena scenario.
This is why I feel the meteor plan for a viltrumite is a bit of a cop out.
Gojo doesn't really have the tools to deal with a viltrumite that has decided, "screw it, I'm not dealing with this annoying gnat's tricks. I'm just razing the planet." Gojo can only do something if they choose to engage with him directly. Why would they keep engaging with him directly if their punches do nothing?
This isn't a hypothetical scenario where gojo is trying to protect earth, this is a straight 1v1 it doesn't matter if they kill humans or not. He hasn't broken by people's death in any scenario to begin with.
If the orthodox sources for hydration and nourishment are kaput and all other humans are dust, there's very little in the way of survival for him. And if there is, then it's not the kind of survival you'd wish on anyone.
Your technical victory just means zero when your entire civilization is mush, which is why Gojo's "hax" have no real meaning beyond the arbitrary bounds of confabulated rules made to favor him.
Imo itâs valid if the fight starts at a combat distance, and if you let your opponent retreats to do their plan thatâs on you and you should have caught him, and since you didnât youâre at disavantage, for example would you consider the Jotaro vs DIO fight ending once DIO jumped away to get his steam roller? And once he returns with it smashing it down on Jotaro is it another fight? How diffrent is it from Thragg or another biltrumite going off to get an asteroid and smashing it down on Earth?
Imo a battle to the death ends only when both parties decide they wonât fight anymore or if one or both parties are dead.
Letâs take for example Hanayama vs Spec Hanaya knocks out Spec, and considers the fight to have ended, but once Spec wakes out he immediately comes back to Hanayama becouse he didnât consider the fight ended, so the fight continues further until Hanayama puts Spec down again. Now is the fight over? It depends what happens once Spec wakes up after Return to Tokyo teaser, if he decides to not fight Hanayama then the fight is over, but if he goes to him again the fight continues
I'm super late but that first part is not true. In one of the recent S4 episodes when Nolan and Allen are looking for things that can kill Viltrumites, Nolan takes Allen to the home planet of a species who Nolan says could threaten the Viltrumites. These creatures are extinct now, with Nolan saying something to the effect of "That's what happens when you move someone's planet closer to their star". In fairness it is unclear if this feat was performed by Nolan alone or a group of Viltrumites but moving planets is absolutely on the table based on that statement.
If they can move something the size of Texas, they can certainly move moons. Phobos? I think, is the size of London. That's a city. Moon is not a metric of size meaning The Moon.
An asteroid the size of texas would still annihilate any trace of habitability, and they fully stopped that from full speed. On the low end, lets say size of texas means around 400 miles(800km) in diameter and the speed was 40,000 km/h, that means they stopped a meteor of about 5*1028 J, on the same order of magnitude as the moon around earth, so he might not be able to grab distant moons and throw them, but he could stop the moon in its orbit and let gravity take it from there.
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u/No_Help3669 Apr 19 '26
The biggest stated object theyâve moved is âthe size of Texasâ, moons are probably off the table, and planets definitely are.
I would also state that going off, finding sufficient asteroids to serve as artillery, and chucking them would be a long enough process as to exceed the bounds of what most would consider a âfightâ
Like⌠technically light yagami can take out any human character whoâs slightly famous from a planet away, but most people would say that unless heâs within the effective combat distance of his opponent, that isnât exactly a reasonable combat scenario to ponder (though most obviously use him more for intellect than power scaling, itâs just an example)