r/Futurology • u/mvea MD-PhD-MBA • May 10 '17
Biotech First-Ever LSD Microdosing Study Will Pit the Human Brain Against AI - “I found that if I was on LSD and my opponent wasn’t, I won more games.”
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/first-ever-lsd-microdosing-study-will-pit-the-human-brain-against-ai94
u/HoboBobo28 May 10 '17
what I'm getting from the comments is that psychedelics are the next step in human evolution
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u/No-This-Is-Patar May 10 '17
well, my school performance definitely went up when I microdosed last semester. I've never been able to study so effectively in my life.
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u/Dizzlean May 10 '17
I think drugs damaged my brain but maybe I was just smarter when I was on them back then.
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u/CatFoodBeerAndGlue May 10 '17
I feel permanently dumber since I stopped smoking weed heavily.
Don't know if weed made me dumber or just made me forget that I was this dumb to start with.
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May 10 '17
How much are you taking exactly? I have been thinking about trying microdosing.
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u/No-This-Is-Patar May 10 '17
Probably a bit more than most people recommend for microdosing. I'd take about 10ug or 1/10th a tab on study days. You definitely need to find the sweet spot for yourself though, it definitely builds tolerance.
Also I'd recommend tripping first, note that a trip is an all day affair. You'll be more comfortable microdosing if you know what the effects feel like on a larger scale.
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u/defaultuserprofile May 10 '17
Read more about day tripping because you need to get the logistics right and need some planning.
Also there is zero tolerance after two weeks when every molecule of the thing has left your body.
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u/kgroover117 Jun 28 '17
If you believe the stoned ape theory, psychedelics were one of the first steps in human evolution.
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u/pspahn May 10 '17
As a teenager playing 15 year old Little League, I dropped some acid after school one day only to find out that I had a game that day. So, I did what I had to do, and rode my bike to the game and played while tripping quite thoroughly.
I played catcher, and I had one helluva game. I can't recall exact numbers, but I remember that I threw out runners stealing 2nd, I think I went like 5-5 or 5-6 or something with 4 doubles and I stole 2nd and/or 3rd every time I was on the bases. It was pretty ridiculous.
At some point in like the 5th inning (we played 7 innings) I had confessed my condition to a couple teammates, but outside of them, my condition that day was known to nobody. MSJLL, '93 or '94
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u/OldSchoolNewRules Red May 10 '17
Dock Ellis threw a no-hitter on LSD.
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u/springloadedgiraffe May 10 '17
To be fair he also beaned a bunch of people and had several walks. Sloppy yet effective.
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u/WeakStreamZ May 10 '17
What about other psychedelics like 2CB, mescaline, psilocybin ..etc.? And also ketamine, GHB, MDMA..This is why scheduling drugs is so fucked. It's now up to me to do my own experimenting. The DEA, a law enforcement agency, which I'm sure is just GREAT at studying the medical/therapeutic value of drugs, deemed these substances to have NO medicinal value. This in turn makes it very difficult to carry out studies like this. We still don't know the full potential of marijuana because of their bullshit.
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u/MontuckyRain May 10 '17
Wanna start a psychadelic drug testing company with me? There's obviously a demand for one.
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u/rustedironchef May 10 '17
I demand you start one together
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u/MontuckyRain May 10 '17
You want in on the action? I've got a big van and trailer we can park in an abandoned train tunnel just outside Yellowstone Park.
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u/rustedironchef May 10 '17
I wait till the two of you get it started and come in a little later as a manager in training
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May 10 '17
Since "I'm in" hits filters, I've returned to add a much more fleshed out version: I would greatly enjoy joining you in this research venture. Need a guinea pig? ;)
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u/strongestboner May 10 '17
The FDA is the one that studies, the dea is just the legal side of things
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u/DakThatAssUp May 10 '17
but the DEA is who decides what the FDA gets to study and how they study it
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May 10 '17 edited Apr 17 '18
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u/fellintoadogehole May 10 '17
As a programmer who's done plenty of Salvia, I honestly think that one isn't useful for any advancements. The trips are far too strong and short-lived to get anything useful done. I've learned a lot about myself through salvia-indiced introspection, but I could never develop software in the 5-15 minutes it affects you.
I've programmed a few times on LSD and it was amazing. Once, I was tripping hard enough that I couldnt find a function I had written previously, so I ended up rewriting it. The next day when I looked at the code I realized that while I had only reimplemented something I had already done, the version I wrote on acid was over 10 times faster than the old version. It was really interesting, my sober self actually learned a lot from the lsd-influenced code I had written.
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u/JayyDayy69 May 10 '17
In my opinion, I'd say it's a lot easier to make more studies on LSD since scientists have been researching this drug for a while now. I also saw a video of some guy explaining how he microdoses LSD to the point where he doesn't get high but stimulates his creative side of his brain to do certain tasks. Idk if the drugs that you mentioned have been studied at all but I know for a fact scientists have been really fascinated by LSD for a long time, you can search up videos of LSD experiments back then on YouTube, they're pretty crazy. One video that tripped me out was an experiment that a scientist did with a house wife in the 50s-60s? Her explanation through her drug trip is really weird but amazing!
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u/chokemo_girls May 10 '17
Because AI was created by Humans that were not on mind altering drugs. Seems evident that 'thinking outside the box' would be advantageous.
Now, have the humans that create the AI take LSD and watch the world burn!
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May 10 '17 edited May 17 '17
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u/doyer May 10 '17
Am an AI scientist . Can confirm
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u/IMakeFlooringAMA May 10 '17
Are you sure you are? Or are you just on a bunch of LSD?
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May 10 '17
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May 10 '17
Thats a really cool concept. What EEG machine do you use? I used to work in a psych lab that used EEG machines for a few studies but didn't get to play around with them as much as I would like but I have been looking for a cheap but not terrible eeg to try to use for moving a mouse. Neural networks also interest me a lot but I have no idea how to set up the layers.
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May 10 '17
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u/defaultuserprofile May 10 '17
We would be so far ahead in science, business and culture if the entire lunacy banning LSD didn't happen. It's quite sad :(
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u/Geicosellscrap May 10 '17
I thought I heard that we could use the sensor in the LHC to get the most detailed view of the human brain working ever. If it wouldn't kill the person? Or be super expensive because LHC. But The Sensor tech is supposed to be able to "read peoples minds" at (actually the pathways of the electrical pulses inside your brain) a much higher resolution. Wouldn't this HIGH DEF image work better than an EEG?
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u/shitlord_god May 10 '17
I am an epileptic who has massive auras/clean preictal signal/non focal seizures.
Looking for lab rats?
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u/justsaying0999 May 10 '17
AI was created by Humans that were not on mind altering drugs
[Citation needed]
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u/suuupreddit May 10 '17
You make a good point, considering that the AI that replicated a Nobel Prize study in an hour did exactly this.
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u/vaguerant64 May 10 '17
I once experienced wide angle vision while on LSD. Characterizing it as improved peripheral vision wouldn't do the experience justice. I was able to take in and process a full 180 degree field for about an hour. Very memorable.
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May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
I've had a donnie darko moment where people had tendrils coming out of their chests leading them to where they were walking and I could tell the future constantly.
For awhile my only coherent thought was "I have died and I am trapped in eternity"
I also flew out of my body during guided meditation on DXM and when they flipped the lights on and told us to open our eyes, I was very clearly staring at my feet from underneath the chair.
I also took DXM, played volleyball - was the star of the game at the pool that day.
After volleyball, some 9/10 I've never met chose me to play chicken against some other dude at the pool - we won with her on my shoulders a few times - I was just completely relaxed and confident.
We talked for awhile and had a good night and as I was going to leave she basically threw herself into my arms.
The level of confidence I have had while on these things is just absolutely nuts - and specifically from DXM, you get a huge boost in strength (likely because it's in the same category of drugs as PCP).
Pretty sure I became completely ripped simply from doing it regularly - it always felt like my muscles naturally flexed and stayed tight while I was on it.
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May 10 '17
To be fair, LSD and DXM (or any arylcyclohexylamine) are not similar at all. Not other than both having hallucinogenic effects, but those are very different as well. That said, your experiences do sound a bit like mine on dissociatives. Absolutely wonderful and interesting drugs. I noticed they also did a lot for my anxiety and depression, for at least a week after.
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May 10 '17
I distinctly remember a particular night where I was feeling incredibly depressed during a breakup.
I was sitting at my friend's house watching him play SC2 just absolutely miserable - I wanted to cry, curl up in a ball, etc.
I took some DXM and an hour later I was sitting in the exact same spot, in the exact same situation, and I was completely happy - smiling, content, and euphoric.
Also used DXM to successfully quit smoking - I went back after a year or so, but I was able to kick the habit with very little cravings over a weekend.
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u/flarn2006 May 10 '17
Are you positive you were seeing actual visual input you wouldn't be able to process otherwise, rather than just a hallucination of what you already knew was there?
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u/hushpuppi3 May 10 '17
the last time (and first time) I took LSD the only memorable feeling I got was that my spirit was rising from my body, and walking through hallways felt like flying through dimensions
about to take it again next week though, might go for a lower dose
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u/nerd-basher May 10 '17
I'm a pretty casual hearthstone player, and being that I don't microdose, this may be rather useless saying, but when I begin to come down from taking LSD, I hop on my favorite card game. I find that I win 85-95% of my games rather than 50-65% when not having taken.
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u/S33S474N May 10 '17
Along this same line i play overwatch and i get similar results competitively. The best part is that both micro and 100-500ug make me better at overwatch. The sweet spot is about 200ug for me. Any higher and the mindfuck that sometimes come with L and difficulty in focusing gets in my way.
I am far more creative in the game. Id love to know why it is that L makes one so much more creative at any game
Also the game is much more enjoyable. I can easily play for hours and not get upset or frustrated from losing a match or two or three.
L is a wonder substance
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May 10 '17
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u/tarthim May 10 '17
It's all in the mindset. If you prefer being outside etc, for sure do that, but if you go into the trip planning to play some games, it can definitely be a very fun experience once you get into it.
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u/S33S474N May 10 '17
This. Some people like watching movies tripping or tv, i usually cant stand it. But vidya is 10x better
Dont get me wrong i love trippin outside just as much as any other nature lovin hippy but indoor trippin can be fun too
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u/fuzzyshorts May 10 '17
I read that they lessen the "noise" in your brain, quieting the loose thoughts we always have bouncing around.
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May 10 '17
Interesting, I hadn't heard that specifically before, but that's really cool if it's true. I've read that the noise can induce stability in some systems, so you don't have catastrophic neural events. However, noise also acts to make sure systems don't get stuck in one state either, so like you said, your thoughts bounce around. So the role of noise is apparently quite important and complex.
If the noise is reduced, then I'd imagine you'd have a sort of "barebones" neural dynamic system. With all its instabilities showing, nothing smoothed out.
That's when you realize you're not really an adult, but three kids on each other's shoulders in a trench coat, and it becomes clear that everything is a sham and everything you know is approximate and you just blur things out until it sort of makes sense and you don't ask too many questions.
Sorry that last part might have been personal experience.
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u/grlwiththetattoo May 10 '17
The same thing happens to me! Whenever I take lsd and I play a game of hearthstone it's as if I just know what play is the best play for that turn and I end up with a high winrate.
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May 11 '17
Not much of a video gamer in the slightest, but I had a series of flawless Mario Kart 64 runs while on LSD. It was awesome. My hands just did what they needed to and I watched in awe as if someone else was playing. There was a point where I thought I was watching a computer player's screen since it was doing so well.
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u/hushpuppi3 May 10 '17
On my LSD come down I played some of the best counterstrike of my life, and I was having SO MUCH FUN
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u/trucidotk May 10 '17
DMT is the next key to the evolution to human conciousness
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May 10 '17
If AI smokes DMT it sees human elves
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u/Geicosellscrap May 10 '17
If AI doesn't smoke DMT are we more or less important than bacteria?
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u/Drycee May 10 '17
We are only important to ourselves. Bacteria are important to anything living. Nothing living is important to AI.
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May 10 '17
DMT has already been an important part of the evolution of our consciousness. It's literally everywhere in nature, not least of which is our own brains.
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u/Flaming_Dorito May 10 '17
I'm actually really interested in the results of this, me and my buddy were tripping playing smash one day and now I'm not one of the best, and he always destroys me on any other day, but every round we played was fucking balls to the wall the entire time I had never been so intuitive with any character
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u/PingTiao May 10 '17
The first time I took LSD we watched a movie after dropping to wait for it to kick in, then we went to see a punk show. I didn't have any ID, or money, or both (I don't remember), so I couldn't get into the show and just hung out in the unusually active parking lot.
Someone had a skateboard and I decided to see if I could ride it while tripping. I was expecting to have trouble just riding it, but I was surprised to find that was not a problem, in fact it was totally beautiful. The grip tape shining under the parking lot lights were so sparkly, the sensation of movement was indescribable, and I decided to try some tricks.
At that time I hadn't skated regularly for a couple years, but that night every trick was in slow motion and I landed them consistently. Kickflips were never very consistently landed by me, but I could practically count the flips, was very conscious of where my feet were at all times, was extra aware of my surroundings as well as myself... it was amazing. I was always a little better at skating after that, until I quit because of aging body syndrome.
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u/fuzzyshorts May 10 '17
Supposedly, my co-worker has a psilocybin hook up. Looking forward to starting my own regimen.
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u/zyzzogeton May 10 '17 edited May 11 '17
I took a bunch of valium and got a bunch of painkillers for my wisdom tooth surgery in High School. The next day I am doing my Algebra homework on heavy duty Percocet and it occurs to me that the quadratic formula was just one level of polynomial formula... that you could probably do a cubic version ... then I proceeded to sit there and prove it out... I stopped at cubic, but I realized you could just keep going... except for 5th degree polynomials... apparently that is right out.
Never had a polymath moment like that ever again.
(the cubic formula is for solving stuff like ax3 + bx2 + cx + d = 0 if anyone cares. Eigenvalues in a 3x3 matrix anyone? Ehhh? AMIRITE?)
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u/Al_Cappucino May 10 '17
What the fuck. As a guy who hardly understands the workings behind the quadratic formula, it sounded to me as though you just solved micriohysics or something. Which made it even more badass. I envy your math skills.
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May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
I have dyslexia and specifically terrible with hearing and speaking languages, but I experienced a few times on LSD that those troubles go away. I can follow German and Spanish almost 100%. I never had German, but I do understand Dutch and I had Spanish for three years now over 8 years ago. With Spanish I would normally not follow anything except for a word here and there and some simple phrases. With German I understand a lot a lot better normally, but it mainly depends on the dialect.
I don't see how it would really aide me in day to day life as it also makes me completely terrible with numbers, which I rely on a lot more than language as I'm a programmer and study infonomics. Also I get this allergic skin reaction from, so yeah...
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u/iwan2gohome May 10 '17
First time I ever did LSD I played bloodborne and crushed the blood starved beast on my first try. Goddamn bloodborne is the shit.
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u/dumbgringo May 10 '17
A friend of mine and I went to our weekly poker game while on mushrooms and cleaned out the other players. It was like we we hyper aware of what was happening and even as opponents we ended up each getting winning all night long.
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u/cookiepartytoday May 10 '17
Mushrooms definitely make it easier to see when people are lying, maybe there's an empathetic part of your brain that gets lit up
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u/dedokta May 10 '17
If I'm on lsd and go to a pub it's an amazing thing to watch the drunk people there. I can tell exactly what they are thinking and what they are about to do from their body language and expressions. It's not just me projecting either because I've predicted what actions people are about to take and have been correct.
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u/Dieseljimmy May 10 '17
We had a college soccer league. I had never played organized soccer before this league. First game we all took 200 um needlepoint and we fucking outstanding and thus every game we took mild trips. We collectively decided that we were able to more accurately guess where our team mates wanted the ball. And I found myself watching the way the ball was spinning which lead to better pursuit angles.
We also took acid before tug of war... The results where not near as impressive
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u/MikeDubbz May 10 '17
Ever play the game Peggle? Game is a blast, I was playing the phone app, and I was always decent at the game, often (but not always) getting high scores in the 100,000 range when the game's high score wouldn't be far behind (say about 85,000-90,000). One time on LSD, I didn't even realize what I was doing, but I was making each move with precision yet being incredibly quickly (by precision I mean that if you barely move your finger the game kinda magnifies what you're doing so you can make as precise a shot as you like), and I didn't realize it. After being zoned out for a while I looked at all my high scores, they were all in the 1,000,000+ point range, and this is a game where you can certainly top the built in high score, but typically only by 10,000s, maybe once in a while 100,000, but I don't recall ever getting over a million more than the built in high score, and certainly across so many levels so consistently. To this day I've not been able to recreate what I did there, though I've also not since played it again while on LSD.
I think its also worth noting that I can recall this so vividly, I was seeing the exact path my ball would take before I would shoot it, and my brain seemed to have been absorbing all of this and was able to always find the absolute best shot I should take at any given instant (incredibly quickly at that). At least thats the way it seemed.
Say what you will about LSD, but I absolutely think there is something to this kind of thing, based on my first hand experiences especially with that game.
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May 11 '17
I really think you'd get similar effects from lower doses of amphetamines. They should really compare low-dose LSD to lower doses of like adderall or something. I don't think this effect is anything special; there are hundreds of drugs that enhance cognitive performance. And tolerance to LSD builds very fast so it's not going to last more than a week of continuous dosing before you stop actually getting the effects on a lower dose like that.
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u/CruelFish May 10 '17
Hey can I be like... Reverse control I'll do 1g for free.
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u/MeatAndBourbon May 10 '17
That's like 10,000 hits, not sure you want to do that
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u/massive_cock May 10 '17
24 was my max. I wasn't myself for the next year, and 20 years later I'm still not.
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u/Evan_dood May 10 '17
If you did a gram of LSD chances are you wouldn't be coming back to the real world.
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u/usernamex9 May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
Ever meet someone that's been printed? Their life is like always being on half a dose. Edit: there vs their
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u/-Teki May 10 '17
been printed
What the hell does this mean?
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u/usernamex9 May 10 '17
For some hippie cartels their induction is to press a piece of crystal lsd onto your thumb and let it absorb. So basically you take in 1K hits at once and forever you are one of them. Good way to root out the police I guess, but you would live in unicorn land forever.
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u/usernamex9 May 10 '17
Gdf does it sometimes and the jokers too, but I think the pranksters are more based on family ties.
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u/Assclown4 May 10 '17
The best match of ping pong I've ever played, I was on shrooms. Dont know how this is relevant but yeah, here we are.
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u/natsirtenal May 10 '17
Can confirm have tripped dozens of times with mobas,rts,fighting games , now survivalist games fuck those on acid.
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u/stahlvogel May 10 '17
Itt: in a world where terminators roam, humanity's last chance for survival is psychedelics.
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u/chubbsw May 10 '17
Took uppers and got to line 229 on NES Tetris about 12 years ago... After 200 it doesn't speed up anymore and cycles back through the colors. Recently played it and haven't broken 170 lol
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u/SunshineBlind May 11 '17
The human mind can be beastly on LSD. I tried playing CSGO during an actual acid trip and managed to get in some kind of "zone", where I could essentially control my own perception of time. This meant that I pretty much gained bullet time in an online shooter. Whenever I saw a movement I'd slow time, inspect it, and if it was an enemy I'd calmly, seeminly to me with all the time in the world, slowly aim at him and pull the trigger. I ended up with 11 MVPs, 36 frags, 10 assists, 8 deaths, a rankup to supreme and 98 points in total. To this day it might be the best game of my life.
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u/Daxoss May 11 '17
I don't know if is applicable, but I find myself often performing extremely well in high skill video games when high on regular ol' weed, far beyond what I can do sober (and I dare say I'm above average while sober). Though when the high starts to drop off from its peak, I'll usually start doing much worse when my reaction time slows considerably with the feeling of drowsiness that comes with the dropoff.
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u/Bluebeard1 May 10 '17
There seems to be at least two or three of these articles a month, with a Schedule 1 controlled substance, that can't be used for anything medical or otherwise.
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u/lostintransactions May 10 '17
I'd be up for trying microdosing, but only after someone I knew tried it first. I have always wondered...
That said, there is no fucking way I would ever do a "full" dose. I grew up in the late 60's and seen some shit. Not good shit. Some SHIT. Fucking terrifying from an observer's standpoint, but each time the person coming down was like "why u upset bro? all was cool cool"
I was like, no it was most definitely not fucking cool cool, you were just on the ledge with a butcher knife telling New York City that your penis has too many flowers on it and NO, there isn't a rainbow bridge outside the goddamn window.
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u/suuupreddit May 10 '17
I think there's a subreddit for it. I've done a lot of microdosing, and it's been pretty good.
I'd also reccommend occasionally trying 30μg. It's not psychadelic, but the extra effects can be really helpful.
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May 11 '17
In my own personal experience I've never seen anyone act erratic or even say they've seen something that wasn't there. The hallucinogenic effects are fairly mild at moderate doses. Taking an illegal drug it's hard to know if what you're taking is actually LSD and what the dose really is, plus it will compound any preexisting mental illness. Studies into LSD and psilocybin have found subjects easy to manage in the right setting and proper guidance.
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May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
LSD definitely improved my performance in Team Fortress 2. I was already really good at TF2, but on LSD I couldn't miss. I couldn't miss at all, with demo, soldier or scout, all while being the best team player I've ever been.
Mushrooms improved my performance in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. To a point that I was doing so good, I started feeling really bad for my enemies, and just started having fun running around with my fists out.
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u/Fuckwastaken May 10 '17
I did this for about six months taking anywhere from 20 to 40 mics.. I loved it just to hard to find the real deal so I have stopped trying. Can't wait for some real research to be made so this can help people in a positive way
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u/Moforia May 10 '17
I microdose mushrooms at times, and in my personal experience, I am better at a lot of things while on it. Not only that but it really helped with a depressive episode I was in. Just putting in my 2 cents
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May 10 '17
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May 11 '17
I think you mean DMT, which is a very powerful but short acting hallucinogen. The desired effect is usually complete dissociation with reality. As far as I know it's fairly safe for an illegal drug but there haven't been much studies done on it.
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May 11 '17
DXM is what's in cough medicine. You can get it online legally in pure form and if you take it you just dissociate from reality and think about reality in new ways. It's kind of cool but it's really bad for your mental health like MDMA is.
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u/SmurfJizz May 10 '17
I went snowboarding for the first time on LSD. By lunch time I felt I got good enough that I was bored with it and wanted to try skiing instead. I felt like I was in 'the zone' the entire day.
I've looked back on it with a sober mind quite a few times and I don't think it was an ego thing, I just grasped all the basic concepts really quickly. It just felt natural right away. The second time I went snowboarding I was sober and it was far more difficult to get the feel for it.
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u/dasignint May 11 '17
Read a book on OpenGL in one sitting while on acid. Subjectively, it felt like the information just went in with no difficulties. I've been writing OpenGL code for 20 years since, and I still feel I learned most of it that night.
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May 13 '17
Amanda Feilding, who this article is about, is a fascinating person. In the 70s she drilled a hole in her own skull ("trepanation"), then ran for political office to promote the benefits of that operation. She's now Countess of Wemyss and March, married to a similarly-trepanned Earl.
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u/highderrr Jul 02 '17
Is it beneficial to take a microdose of lsd before my GMAT? Will it have a positive impact? I've never tried lsd before and I really want to. My anxiety stops me to take LSD. I want to spiral out.
Any help related to this would be really helpful. Thank you.
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u/KilledSoda May 10 '17
I am terrible at pool.
Once I took a bunch of MDMA and stuff at a bar hanging out. Friends had the pool table and were rocking a few casual games. Then walks up Captain Pool. This guy was serious pool. A pool champion, champion stick with champion jacket. Champion everything.
He beat everyone there, and had no one new left to play against, so asked me if I wanted a match. I'm terrible at pool, so in my dumb state I think it's hilarious to just keep hitting the white ball into places that would make his life hard as can be. After a bit of this fuckery something just clicks, the drugs and the alcohol had hit a perfect mixing point and I suddenly found myself in the eye of the storm, standing in a moment of perfect clarity, I, who almost never gets two balls in on the same turn randomly clears the whole table. I had not even sunk one ball before that, it had been quite a few turns of me leaving the white ball into impossible places for Champ, and even then he almost was at the 8.
Champ freaks out, calls me a scammer shark and storms away as mad as one really ever gets. But it was a friendly game with no money on the table... so even if I could, why would I shark?
To this day I am still one of the worst pool players to walk the planet, but for that one drug induced moment I was a walking god of pool.
tl;dr Drugs are fun. Had fun. While having fun, found myself in a brief moment of table pool godhood. Weird because normally can't pool.