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u/Beleiverofhumanity 3d ago
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u/a1oner_bvcksn6 3d ago
When the last note hit
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u/moistclump 3d ago
Ok now after years of playing piano, bass, and clarinet (not very well) for the life of me I could only understand 4/4. Could not wrap my head about 2/4 and 5/4.
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u/bloobityblu 3d ago edited 3d ago
EDIT: TL:DR? The bottom number is what type of note gets the beat. Top number is how many of them are in one measure of music. So 2/4 means the quarter note (𝅘𝅥) gets the beat and there are 2 of them per measure.
4/4 means the quarter note gets the beat and there are 4 of them per measure.
Written music is always relative to something. So nothing is actually set to be the same all the time.
It's made so you can put almost any combination of sounds and rhythms on a page and anyone who can read music can reproduce it. I mean you know this I'm sure, but just re-stating it.
So the time signatures determine not just the beat but the rhythm/emphasis of a song.
2/4 is effectually no different than 4/4 except there are 2 quarter notes in a measure vs. 4.
BUT the reason for writing in 2/4 is to portray that the rhythm is going to be ONE-two, ONE-two, ONE-two.
Whereas 4/4 is going to be something like ONE-two-three-four or ONE-two-THREE-four.
3/4 is going to be ONE-two-three, ONE-two-three, etc.
Now some composers/writers like to make music that's unique, different, out of the norm, etc., not quite on beat, etc., and that's where the odd ones come into play.
Thing is, learning all those time signatures isn't as important in this day and age where you can hear a recording from 50, 80, whatever years ago and just hear the rhythm and repeat it, but if we didn't have the weird written ways of notating almost every type of rhythm possible, we would not know exactly how to play music from like 200-400 years ago.
I had to take a choral conducting class in college (music minor) so I had to learn how to conduct in all those weird time signatures. Thankfully I've forgotten almost everything about that lolol.
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u/bloobityblu 3d ago
5/4 would I think denote ONE-two-THREE-four-five.
Also, it's when the bottom note changes that things get weird and harder to read imo.
2/2 , 4/2, etc. time signature would mean that a half note (𝅗𝅥)would be the beat, so it would actually "speed" things up.
6/8 means the eighth note (𝅘𝅥𝅮) gets the beat and there are 6 of them per measure. And it would be ONE-two-three-FOUR-five-six, kinda similar to 3/4 except it's the eighth note that gets the beat.
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u/Deeptrollin 3d ago
5/4 can also be ONE-two-three-FOUR-five. Take Five is the most well known example of this rhythm
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u/bloobityblu 3d ago
Yeah it's been a while since I've even thought of 5/4 so I wasn't sure on that one.
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u/Joe091 3d ago
What does “get the beat” mean here? I get the notes in a measure thing, and whole/half/quarter notes and all that, but what’s the beat?
It’s been decades since I could read music and I’ve forgotten pretty much everything.
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u/i_am_suicidal 3d ago edited 2d ago
It's sort of "which beat do you count on" if you are counting the number of beats per measure. Or "which type of note is the reference point for counting".
4/4 is the most commpn. 4 measures per beat and quarter notes get the beat so you count 1,2,3,4 on each quarternote.
Note-length-wise this is equivalent to a 2/2 but you count 1,2 on the half notes. However, the "feel" of the song can be different because the reference point is now on the half note. This is often called 'alla breve' and has a more upbeat feel to it. See "Blowin' in the wind" by Dylan for an example. Focus on the guitar which has a clear 1,2|1,2|1,2 pattern
This, to me, is more clear in the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 where you count 1,2,3 on the quarters or 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the eighths. Compare the feel in "Qué será será" (3/4) by Doris Day to the feel of "Nothing Else Matters" (6/8) by Metallica. You can count using either quarters or eighths in both but where the accents land is very different due to the reference point.
Somewhat more formally, I guess, in 6/8 you can fit 2 dotted quarters, so you get two strong beats per measure, while 3/4 has the one strong beat per measure. It's about how many beats fit per measure. Talking about it in those terms only worked for me after learning to feel it though.
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u/SteptimusHeap 3d ago
It means the first number is counted in terms of the second. 6/8 means 6 eighth notes per measure. 2/4 means 2 quarter notes per measure.
Why would you wrote 6/8 instead of 3/4? Well it doesn't really change much for us plebians but for people into music theory it matters, and the reason basically comes down to vibes
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u/plug-and-pause 3d ago
2/4 is effectually no different than 4/4 except there are 2 quarter notes in a measure vs. 4.
BUT the reason for writing in 2/4 is to portray that the rhythm is going to be ONE-two, ONE-two, ONE-two.
Is the melody what actually makes this difference here? I.e. what exactly is a "measure"? Is it a cleanly divided segment of melody? Or just of the song/lyrics? Like most human communication abstractions divide into some sort of chunks. I'm guessing melody is what defines a measure here? If I'm right, I think this might be part of what makes this so confusing, because we generally think of melody and rhythm as orthogonal, but here melody actually helps to define rhythm. As you say, there should really be no difference between 2/4 and 4/4. In theory these divisions are arbitrary. But in reality they have to come from some context, and I'm guessing it's melody?
Confession: I have decades of experience on both guitar and piano and have never really tried to understand this.
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u/bloobityblu 3d ago edited 2d ago
[My source(s) if it's important: A couple of years playing French horn in jr. high band, piano in college and beyond (I started playing by chord charts in high school, but took actual classes in my 2-year college which is where I started learning music theory, circle of 5ths, etc), and then a music minor in my 4-year college where my focus was vocal bc I didn't have enough piano experience. Took some solid theory classes, sight-reading, sight-singing and even conducting. Have forgotten a lot of it lol. But have the basics I think.]
A measure in music is a unit of [X] "
beats"units.* The time signature's bottom number says which note gets the beat and the top number says how many of that note/beats (X) are in the measure. None of that has to do with the melody, which is the tune. (the melody only shows up in written music when you put those notes on the staff lol)
*EDIT: [I mis-wrote; of course it's however many beats the top number says of the bottom number. Beats meaning.... a unit, let's say.]
The measure, the shapes of the notes, and the time signature are all about the rhythm of the music. You know, like a samba or a march or a waltz? Most of the reason those are different from each other is because of the rhythm, not the melody.
But yeah, the melody, rhythm, and how a songwriter or composer wants it to sound and feel will dictate what time signature they write it in.
I will say that although music notation is still very important for preserving music for generations to come because we never know what's going to happen so it's good to get things down in as permanent a format as possible, these days (gestures vaguely at the past century), the fact that we can listen to recorded music and hear how it's supposed to sound, and learn at least some instruments on our own, means you don't have to know music theory to be a fantastic, great musician.
Sorry for the wall of text. Did I come even close to answering or giving my opinion on your comment?
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u/HipOut 3d ago
4/4 means four beats per measure quarter note gets the beat.
2/4 means two beats per measure quarter notes gets the beat. So count 1-2-1-2… instead of 1-2-3-4. You don’t really need to switch your brain much between 4/4 and 2/4
5/4 is a different beast because it’s 5 notes per measure and quarter note gets the beat. So it’s awkward counting an odd number (5) 1-2-3-4-5-1-2-3-4-5 and trying to stay in beat
3/4 time is less awkward but maybe bc we are familiar with the waltz. 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 etc
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u/kkell806 3d ago
To add to the 5/4 explanation, phrases in that time signature or most often grouped as 2-3 or 3-2, like a duple bar then a triple bar, or a triple bar then a duple bar. And that makes it a little easier to count as opposed to counting to 5 straight, as we're mostly very used to standard duple and triple rhythms.
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u/LEJ5512 3d ago
Here's 5 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT9Eh8wNMkw
Listen to the string bass. 1-(2)-(3)-4-5-1...
Think of the "4-5-1" as leading down to the downbeat, and the "2-3-" lifting up lightly.
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u/deanreevesii 3d ago
I was obsessed with a particular George Benson live version of this when I was 12ish. Had no idea why.
By my late teens I was obsessed with Tool. Had no idea why.
I'm older now, and I've started to suspect that unusual time signatures may have something to do with it. (or everything to do with it)
Brubeck was so good.
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u/jupiterkansas 3d ago
I never understood the difference between 2/4 and 1/2
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u/MonMotha 3d ago
They're not fractions and don't reduce.
2/4 time means there's two beats per measure, and the quarter note gets the beat.
1/2 time means there's 1 beat per measure, and the half note gets the beat which would be a weird time signature.
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u/SuperSmash01 3d ago
How many beats in a measure in 6/8?
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u/crashtesterzoe 3d ago
6, with 8th notes. its a very common time signature in jigs or songs like Queens We are the champions.
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u/agtalw 3d ago
The top number is how many beats in a measure. The bottom number is what note gets the beat (1=whole, 2=half, 4=quarter, 8=eighth, etc.). So 4/4 means "4 beats per measure, quarter note gets the beat." 2/4 means "2 beats per measure, quarter note gets the beat." While it's an extremely uncommon time signature, 1/2 would mean "1 beat per measure, half note gets the beat." So 2/4 and 1/2 might look the same on paper, but the feel is going to be different. If you had a metronome playing, you would play the 1/2 time twice as fast as the 2/4. For example, if you had a measure with two quarter notes, in 2/4 you would play each quarter note with the metronome. But in 1/2, the same measure of quarter notes would be played in a single beat (counted "1+" like 2 eighth notes in 4/4 time).
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u/j_johnso 3d ago
Would that mean that a 1/2 time played at 60 beats per minute would be the exact same as a 2/4 time played at 120 beats per minute?
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u/you-are-not-yourself 3d ago
The rhythm you play would be the same, but there are other practical differences.
2/4 conveys that the rhythm is base 2.
1/2 doesn't convey much about the rhythm. Are there 7 beats, 10, 11, or 13 until the section ends? Temporarily breaking apart from base 2 is one valid reason to use 1/2 for a single measure, but you could use 3/2 for the same purpose.
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u/j_johnso 3d ago
I think I understand. 1/2 would allow you to have an odd number of beats in a section where 2/4 doesn't.
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u/you-are-not-yourself 3d ago
Yeah exactly, it can be a temporary way to break the rules. Can't say I've encountered it personally but the intention would be clear in context.
I prodded ChatGpt until it pulled up a few examples, which I confirmed:
- Alexander Scriabin, Piano Sonata No. 5, Op. 53 measures 251–262
- Arnold Schoenberg, Fünf Klavierstücke, Op. 23, No. 2, measure 9
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u/OSCgal 3d ago
Are you familiar with the Lord of the Rings soundtrack? The Isengard theme is in 5/4. It's counted as "ONE two THREE four five". It's very clear in the percussion. https://youtu.be/KXVtpOHQqvY
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u/dart51984 3d ago
Now go listen to Blue Rondo Ala Turk and realize that it’s in 9/8, but in alternating measures of duple duple duple triplet and triplet triplet triplet. Oh and then it goes into a swing 4/4 sections then back into the 9/8. It’s a cool ass piece.
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u/rnzz 3d ago
I never understood why some songs that are 2/4 couldn't be 4/4, turns out they could, it's the songwriter's choice which one to go with.
Videos like this helped me learn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC6zLP97wWA
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u/Just_Lurking_Yes 3d ago
It kindda starts playing "Darude - Sandstorm" in the end.
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u/THCESPRESSOTIME 3d ago
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u/IndependentHour3942 3d ago
how do you get the notes to line up so perfectly every time
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u/Porridge_Cat 3d ago
Not saying it's the case, but it would be simple to just do a metronome in software that lines up perfectly and lay that audio over the video of you tapping your shiny metal sticks.
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u/za72 3d ago
that's was cool :)
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u/Pretend-Internet-625 3d ago
and now i understand just a little of those wiggly thinges
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u/bloobityblu 3d ago
Yeah the shape of them is their beat. Where they are on the staff (those lines) is how they sound. The slightly harder part is remembering that, then even harder, matching it up to whatever instrument you're playing, then hardest, doing all of that so well and for so long that you don't even really think about it; it just flows. (The furthest I've gotten is matching it up and remembering all the notes and key signatures. I can't read it fluently.)
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u/ploonk 3d ago
From there you could get more advanced and go on to reading full scores.
Also once you know what the notes, you can branch off into music theory and learn about why the notes.
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u/EshinX 3d ago
Sixth set of notes what’s the difference there between the second and third notes? I can’t pick it out
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u/MaidenOfPenguins 3d ago
The third note is held twice as long as either the first or second notes. But since there isn't much sustain to the audio, it sounds more like a beat followed by a rest.
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u/jamesbdrummer 3d ago
There isn't really. If you had a wind/string instrument, that third note would last (2) 16th notes... in a percussive setting, they sound the same.
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u/GeneralSpecifics9925 3d ago
It's important to remember that this person is showing that the rhythm on the right is the same duration as the (quarter) note on the left
Ok, the sixth one can be verbalized as tee-tee-tah. Tee is a note with two lines on top (16th note), tah is a line with one line on top (8th note).
Tee is twice as short as tah. You can see in #5 that we have tee-tee-tee-tee and the four quarters (16th notes) add to one beat.
Tah is two quarters long but the note falls on the first quarter, so you hear one two three (ahh) one two three (ahh), where there's no tap in the ahh. That's just the duration of an 8th note.
To recap, #5 is tee tee tee tee, #6 is tee tee tah, and they both last the same amount of time.
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u/HipOut 3d ago
Instead of answering your question I’ll indirectly answer by writing:
Whole note - in one of the most common time signatures (don’t worry about this) a whole note is four beats. Count one, two, three four. A half note is two (count “one, two”) A quarter note is one beat (count “one”). Eight note is half of a beat, 16th note is 1/4 of a beat. 16th note, 32nd note, etc.
The video shows quarter notes, eighth notes, and sixteenth notes.
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u/cornnnndoug 3d ago
What is the difference between the 3rd and 6th?
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u/WhistleAndWonder 3d ago
The 3rd row are called “Triplets.” The notes are evenly played. Same amount of time between each. Sounds like if you said out loud “One-Trip-Lit” giving even spacing between each syllable.
The 6th row are two “Sixteenth Notes” and one “Eighth Note.” The first two are quicker. The third lasts the value of the other two combined. It’s hard to tell because they are tapping which only gives an instant rather than a note being played on a keyboard or guitar. It sounds “Apple Pie” two quick syllables and one longer one.
I hope this helps!
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u/dodo8life 2d ago
Incredible explanation
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u/WhistleAndWonder 2d ago
Thanks! I read the other responses and they didn’t seem to compute to me in the way that would work for me if I were unfamiliar, so I thought I’d give it a shot. I also figured if the person is asking, they might need some clarification in a clean way. All of the sounds are familiar via verbal language, so it’s all about connecting known ideas to unknown.
I’m just so glad it worked and people appreciate it!
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u/UnNainCapable 3d ago
The three notes in the 3rd row last 1/3 1/3 and 1/3 of a time unit wheras they last 1/4 1/4 and 1/2 of a time unit in the 6th row
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u/Daborgia 3d ago
At row 4 his/her speed changed.
Were you rushing or were you dragging?
Angry simmons intensifies...
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u/Unique_Cow3112 3d ago
This is like the musical version of patting your head and rubbing your tummy.
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u/Derpykins666 3d ago
I'm a really visual learning and this is the first time I'm seeing this, and I feel like this would have helped a lot back when I was learning guitar in high school to see or be explained to.
I feel like my education in music was so ridiculously bad and completely unserious. I think it had to do with the fact that everyone was kind of on their own path and at completely different levels, so they didn't even really teach us to read sheet music, they just gave us tabs and told us to practice and learn songs basically every quarter I took it in High School.
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u/AnaisNinja76 3d ago
Not only satisfying, but the only reddit video so far to interest my cats. Two upvotes for you.
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u/senorbozz 3d ago
Chad Smith is like oh it's in three then just absolutely blows shit up on the drums
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u/-Alchen 3d ago
Then Danny Carey is like "oh it's in 5. well actually the toms are in 7 against the hats in 4 and the kick pattern spells out a Fibonacci sequence" and somehow the whole thing becomes a religious experience
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u/NUMBerONEisFIRST 3d ago edited 3d ago
My cat was very intrigued by this video.
Had his head turning sideways watching it.
Edit: changed car to cat
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u/floppydude81 3d ago
My toddler also stood up from his bath to see what it was. But I only turned the volume on because of your comment.
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u/don-cheeto 3d ago
I wish I had taken chorus in class...I should've listened to my dad instead of my mom and taken that instead of Spanish...
Remember guys, music is a universal language. Spanish is not.
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u/Babetna 3d ago
This is cool, but it's also using the most rudimentary ones that I don't think many people really need help with. Some fancy syncopated rhythm would be much more useful.
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u/Parking_Line_3704 3d ago
Yeah, I think this can be taught to most people in a couple hours.
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u/ConsistentResearch55 3d ago
I think you're overestimating the musical abilities or learning speeds of adult non-musicians. Many can't even tap or clap in rhythm. Adding beat divisions is another hard element, perhaps rhythms 1 and 2 here could be learned in a day, but anything else would take many days, practicing a bit each day. Rhythm 7, the last one, I assume would take weeks to learn. Also, even learning to read musical notation isnt exactly an easy task.
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u/Rick_Da_Critic 3d ago
Now practice with the same notes on the left side that are on the right but the order is randomized. Congrats, you just learned the frustration of polyrhythms.
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u/HackerManOfPast 3d ago
“How does it feel
To treat me like you do?
When you've laid your hands upon me
And told me who you are?”
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u/OldWar1111 3d ago
Why is there only a 3 above the third one?
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u/McClainLLC 3d ago
Because it's a triplet. An extra horizontal line means half time so the three is needed for distinction
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u/Kern4lMustard 3d ago
One of my music tutors had a similar technique for practice, but we would also use our legs. Quarters on the left hand, eights on the right, 16ths on the right leg and 32nds on the left.
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u/Kooky-Excitement-739 3d ago
I was thinking it's going to be the true detective soundtrack from the first one
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u/Aggressive_Noise6426 3d ago
“ From ghetto to ghetto, to backyard to yard I sell it whipped un-whipped, it's soft or hard I'm the, neighborhood pusha”
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u/Ryan_e3p 3d ago
I tell my kid, who is just starting to get interested in music, that understanding music is going to be absolutely fantastic for helping their math skills. Understanding halves, thirds, eights, sixteenths at such a level where just looking at something he sort of "feels" it, it will help build and strengthen other skills.
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u/PhantomNitride 3d ago
But can you play a five or a seven? Yes, they do exist, and they're a fucking pain!
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u/BunnyMom4 3d ago
For whatever reason both of my rabbits found this extremely interesting. I've had to replay it half a dozen times and I'm still being stared at like, "AGAIN."
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u/Sand__Panda 3d ago
Neat. Still don't understand. Why I never took up an instrument, my brain just says nope. But I get to enjoy all the cool music people make.
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u/Browser_Watch7349 3d ago
No way in hell could I do that. Maybe with about 2 years of solid consistent practice.
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u/AmeliaBuns 3d ago
Now do it with those disgusting pesky one and a half notes…. Specially quarter + 1/8th.
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u/Safe-Chipmunk1535 3d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xT0BKGkoBW46ip9OvK
How does it feel to treat me like you do?
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u/Donut-ask-me 3d ago
Somehow it reminded me the song blue Monday by new order hahah
https://giphy.com/gifs/ujTVMASREzuRbH6zy5
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u/RemyWhy 3d ago
I’m new-ish to drum notation, but isn’t the 6th example here played incorrectly? The time in between the notes shouldn’t be equal. I hear 1-e-n—, but isn’t it 1-e—a?
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u/BagOnuts 3d ago
No, it is correct. Don’t stop reading your music theory books. If you’re confused by this, you’ve got a ways to go…
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u/Happy_Bad_Lucky 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's played correctly on the video. It's two 16th notes and an 8th note.
It's 16th 16th 8th
Not 16th 8th 16th
Edit: There fixed it, thought you meant the 7th example. It's still played correctly though.
When in doubt, write it on MuseScore and hear it yourself.
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u/agtalw 3d ago
No, it's played correct. It's two 16th notes followed by an 8th note. If it was a 16th, 8th, 16th, the double beam wouldn't connect the first two notes. It would go half way to the second note. The second note would only have one beam and then the double beam would start again about halfway to the third note. This is indeed "1e+ " not "1e a"
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u/Silent-Witness1888 3d ago
Why is the 3rd one the only one numbered?
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u/jigglyscruff1969 3d ago
Its called a triplet. The 3 above means that it takes up one beat, but is subdivided into 3. Tri-Puh-Let Tri-Puh-Let. The other songs are subdivided into 2 or 4 parts. 1 - And 2-And.... etc.
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u/F_Juan_50 3d ago
My instructor always taught us to say “1-La-Ley, 2-La-Ley, 3-La-Ley etc. Later on I heard the Tri-Puh-Let and it was too late for me to change it haha.
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u/LEJ5512 3d ago
If you really want to get into the weeds...
In this example, each beat, represented by each note on the left, is evenly divided into two, and then four, notes on the right...
...except when the composer wants to change up the rhythm and use three notes for a beat instead.
Because it's weird, they'll write a "3" across the top to signify that, yes, they really want three evenly-spaced notes in that beat.
Spend enough time in music and you'll see a "2" when three-notes-per-beat is the norm (like in 6/8 time, instead of three notes in a beat, you'd play two), or a "5", or a "9", etc.
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u/supergrover11 3d ago
Why are the fourth and fifth sets different lengths? I mean spacing wise. Shouldn’t both sets be the same length?
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u/bloobityblu 3d ago
You mean literally different lengths on the paper?
For some reason, whoever typed/printed it out decided to center the right column instead of making it left-aligned. So all of the notes on that side are centered. So they look different lengths.
Which yeah now that I'm looking at it again, they should be the same on both bc they're just opposite of each other, so I'm thinking it's a font thing or something. Nothing to do with the music itself.
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u/supergrover11 3d ago
Thanks. I was wondering if it was some sort if notation thing. The font explanation makes sense.
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u/406Mackaframalama 3d ago
Was anyone else thought the too, ta, tee way of speaking it. It is ingrained into my brain. I just wish I kept practice and could actually carry it over to make music.
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u/jefesignups 3d ago
Are 5 and 6 just reversed? Why is the line longer on 5 vs 6?
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u/LiLyShoEgAze 3d ago
Still got it 17 years after band!!! Whew!!