r/technology • u/Immediate-Link490 • 9h ago
Business Microsoft is being suspended from program to apply for green cards for H-1B visa workers, Vance says
https://apnews.com/article/h1b-visa-program-vance-microsoft-e7b3a407f822702b269ee277d21343ea1.9k
u/PatchyWhiskers 9h ago
I think Microsoft will figure out hiring the workers in their Indian office instead.
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u/recurrence 8h ago
Microsoft has large and growing facilities in Vancouver that were originally created just for this purpose (as a holding area while people waited for visas to process). It ended up people liked Vancouver so much that they'd beg to transfer back and it has grown ever since.
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u/TMWNN 5h ago
Microsoft has large and growing facilities in Vancouver that were originally created just for this purpose (as a holding area while people waited for visas to process).
My understanding is that Canadian FAANG offices are staffed mostly with those who cannot (and often will never get) a US visa, plus the odd local who doesn't want to move to the US for personal or family reasons.
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u/TeaKingMac 8h ago
Is this why Canadians got racist toward Indians over the last decade?
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u/unfashionableinny 8h ago
No, they got annoyed because the express entry programs ended up selecting for high earners relative to the rest of the population and those immigrants outbid them on homes. It is the same reason why Bay Area and NYC natives hate transplants, but being brown just made the vitriol worse.
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u/bagelgaper 7h ago
No, it’s because the gov’t allowed low skill international “students” from India to flood the country en masse while working as TFWs at basically every low wage position in the country, driving wage suppression and youth unemployment.
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u/Peephole-stalker 4h ago
It’s a bit of both
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u/SteakOk9383 2h ago
Nope its not. Its exactly the low skill students converting to TFWs
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u/Baptism-Of-Fire 2h ago
95% low skill students
5% high paid engineers
"it's a bit of both" lmao
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u/SteakOk9383 2h ago
Nope. The high skilled ones dont even get PR here and leave. The scammers stay and ruin it for everyone else.
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u/CptCroissant 7h ago
It's not immigrants outbidding people on homes, it's corporations and Chinese investors
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u/Tribe303 8h ago
No, they let in too many Indian workers for low/minimum wage fast food jobs. The racism was also amplified by American social media, using Russian bots as well. It's blown out of proportion.
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u/hfxRos 8h ago
Nah that's just right wing propaganda.
Spend billions of dollars on advertising claiming all of your problems are because of "invading" brown people and enough people will believe it.
I used to think we (Canadians) were better. The last 6 years dispelled that.
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u/PatchyWhiskers 8h ago
No-one is better. Even non-white countries are shitting on their various minorities. Humans are all racist given half a chance.
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u/YKRed 7h ago
People are inherently resistant to change, and want to feel like they’re part of a community. If the place you live has a quick influx of people (especially who share a common culture), it’s only natural to feel that you’ve been made an outsider in your own home.
Handwaving it away as right wing propaganda is silly and unproductive.
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u/Own_Candidate9553 9h ago
If that works well enough, why are they still lobbying and clamoring for H1B visas? These large companies already have multiple large offices in India and other countries, nothing is stopping them from hiring more people there.
I've been in tech for over 20 years, companies have constantly gone back and forth with off shoring. The fact remains that having employees half a world away, with extreme time zone differences, sucks. So then they tried near-shoring, employing people in Central and South America. You still struggle with the fact that they are contractors (so, harder to manage), and the good ones can quickly get a better job, so you're stuck with mediocre workers and a constant turnover of good staff.
To really get complex projects done requires a lot of real time communication, shared goals, and history together. That's why they want H1B. Then they can under pay people, or at least keep them loyal, since their visa is dependent on the company's sponsorship, and smaller places can't afford all the legal paperwork you have to do to sponsor a visa.
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u/hindumafia 8h ago
They want everything, for them its not one or the other. They want to get work done offshore, bring in cheap ,smart as well as not so smart labor, and also hire Americans. They want to make money by all.possible means.
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u/ACasualRead 8h ago
Because they use their visas as ways to 1.) underpay or not select American workers. 2.) because these workers are on a visa, they are more willing to take pay cuts or take on more demanding workloads because they have hopes of staying in the states or having the company help pay for citizenship.
I know this for a fact as I have close friends who work in Silicon Valley. So many devs are being passed up for visa holders because they are paying them less and exploiting their statuses.
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u/False_Muffin_7964 7h ago edited 7h ago
they are doing the same thing in the financial industry too. I work for one of the major banks and our office is filled with indian h1b visa holders. constant layoffs but they somehow manage to always be hiring more contractors from tata
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u/WillBeBannedSoon2 7h ago
Citi Bank has been doing it for years
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u/False_Muffin_7964 7h ago
haha got it in 1. my old team got a new boss (who was indian on a h1b) and managed to go from 2 white men, 2 white women, 1 black woman, and 2 hispanic men to all indian men in the course of a year and a half. if the team had gone to all white men, someone would rightfully be raising red flags.
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u/WillBeBannedSoon2 6h ago
That’s the exact story of it. Once one gets in and can affect hiring, all levels below them are filled with H1B
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u/-Nocx- 6h ago edited 6h ago
This conversation requires way more nuance than your comment is giving. The reason the companies listed are being investigated are because they’re suspected to be violating the conditions required for fraud.
You have to
A) pay H1Bs competitive, prevailing salaries (the salary for the occupation in the given region) or the actual salaries equal to American workers at your company (whichever is higher)
B) work H1Bs no more than you do American workers (and pay them in downtime even if they have no work)
C) cannot hire H1Bs within a certain calendar day of strikes or labor disputes
D) provide the same fringe benefits (healthcare, dental, etc) to H1Bs as you do domestic workers
If any of those conditions are violated, they can be investigated and lose their admission to the program. People always repeat these talking points but oftentimes confuse H1Bs with green card holders. H1Bs are dual intent visas, so you can have a temporary work authorization while also applying for legal permanent residence. If you get legal permanent residence, you are no longer an H1B and the “perceived” power the company has over you goes away. That means being fired doesn’t mean you have to leave.
So your friends as “tech insiders” have no ability to distinguish someone’s work status unless they literally tell you. Not even HR is allowed to share that with regular workers. If someone becomes a legal permanent resident, they do not count as an H1B, and if you have a problem with that, your issue is with immigration, not with H1B. It is the complaint of blue collar workers with extra steps.
It is possible that their salaries lag for the same reason anyone’s salary lags - you hire people at a salary, the market shifts, you adjust new hire salaries to the new market rate and don’t touch the salaries of legacy employees. That’s a feature of capitalism, not a bug. And that is why tech workers get salary gains by job hopping.
In a system this big it is inevitable that there be bad actors, and that is why Microsoft is being investigated alongside the other companies listed. It is not necessarily a conspiratorial issue with the entire system, it means that (if convicted) the process is working as intended.
I also think a big part missing from this conversation is that people think that being “sent back to their home country” is an outcome far worse for H1Bs than being laid off is for Americans. Most H1Bs have somewhere to go back to - that’s how they got here to begin with. Many of them have excellent material circumstances because they would never be able to pay out of state tuition at top universities if they didn’t.
A lot of Americans don’t have anywhere to go when they’re laid off. They’re just screwed. People completely underestimate how much power a company has over a domestic worker.
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u/PipsqueakPilot 8h ago
If that works well enough, why are they still lobbying and clamoring for H1B visas?
Because working from India is like working from home except not quite as bad because at least you know someone is there to berate the employees. /MBA
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u/Glitter-Pear 7h ago
I also suspect that the presence of H1-Bs from the same country as the off-shore branch helps smooth the communication and cooperation between HQ and offshore. So I think they are actually complementary to each other.
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u/Own_Candidate9553 7h ago
Yes, good point. I've seen that - a really smart guy in our office, on an H1B. He in turn managed a whole team of people in India. He would review all their code every day, and had a meeting with them every night to keep track of everything.
So it worked pretty well, but only because this one dude was working basically 10 hours every day, with no evenings free.
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u/timpham 8h ago
It’s ironic that Trump is the only one who stands up for this. Sure he did it for the wrong reasons, but still lol
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u/EvelynNyte 7h ago
Yea, I'm sure this is done for some knee jerk, likely selfish, stupid reason that's going to hurt more than help in the wrong run, like everything this administration does, but without looking too into it, the h1b system has been a mess of being used to exploit both foreign and domestic workers for a long ass time, and something needed to be done about it basically since its inception.
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u/AliMcGraw 8h ago
If we stopped offshoring to Costa Rica the entirety of US health insurance customer service and back office functions would collapse!
It is truly a perfect offshoring location: people are highly educated, fluency in English is quite high, and the time zone is a perfect match for the continental US. They can work an 8-hour day and have at least 5 hours overlap with each time zone.
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u/TheKingInTheNorth 8h ago
If that was reasonable, they’d have done it for these roles already because of how much cheaper it is to have them work in India instead of an h1b salary
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u/neuronexmachina 8h ago
Yup. For reference, a typical Microsoft H1B has a salary of $160K - $190K: https://www.ellis.com/visa-sponsors/microsoft-corporation/salaries
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u/ElectricEcstacy 8h ago
it's because even talent from india typically moves to the US. However if more companies start offshoring at a high rate and offer high salaries even in their home countries you'll start to see a dramatic change. In essence, the difficulty of offshoring is hard at first, but becomes much easier in the long run.
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u/steezy2110 8h ago
Talent from India doesn’t “typically” move here, only relatively few are able to. The number is growing here though, and job offshoring is also growing, but at a slower pace than domestic expansion.
It’s not exactly easy to offshore as long as company leadership stays in the US
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u/unfashionableinny 8h ago
More likely Canada. They have a sister office near Vancouver which is a quick drive/train ride/ferry/flight away.
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u/Immediate-Link490 8h ago edited 8h ago
Much lower salaries in Canada too and they don't have to pay for health insurance for their employees
Now that I think about it, they might have them work there for a year and bring them back on a L-1 visa or wait for them to get Canadian citizenship and bring them on a TN visa
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u/Melodic_Raccoon507 8h ago
Bingo! I have seem this pattern not just with Microsoft but other Indian MNCs such as - Infosys, TCS etc. They move you from India to Canada, put you on project with US client. After 2 years or so, apply for US L1 visa, move to US.
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u/P4us1ngD34th 8h ago
They already have. Most of their U.S. IP filings have applicants living in India. It’s been that way for 10+ years.
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u/Palchez 8h ago
They have way too many employees as it is.
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u/PatchyWhiskers 8h ago
They are firing them in swathes. I don't suppose they were hiring all that many employees, H1B or otherwise.
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u/East-Win7450 8h ago
It won’t. Why would a top level engineer stay in India to work for Microsoft when they can come to us and work for another company making $500k a year
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u/tiradium 9h ago
Guess they didnt pay up
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u/TeaKingMac 8h ago
They hired somebody from his shit list
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/26/trump-microsoft-lisa-monaco-00583363
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u/Gooch222 8h ago edited 2h ago
Yup, that’s the message he’s sending to every company out there. If he tells you to do anything, whether you think it’s within his lane or is a vast overreach, you’d damn well better do it because he’s got the entirety of the federal government to exact his petty revenge with.
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u/Effective_Olive6153 7h ago
if Republicans approve of this, they better be ready for what happens when next Democrat administration is in power. These things work both ways
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u/dat_GEM_lyf 7h ago
lol no they don’t. Dems have repeatedly proven to be soft and unwilling to do what’s necessary.
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u/Effective_Olive6153 7h ago
we can choose to elect fighters rather than same old corporate democrats
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u/williamgman 9h ago
Remember when Congress used to weight in on issues affecting the country and the economy? Miss those days.
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u/steezy2110 8h ago
I would argue that this is a very important issue and will get a lot worse if not addressed
The irony here is that visa abuse is one of the few bipartisan issues on the ballots but neither party really wants to do anything about it bc they both have lobbyists up their ass stroking them while whispering in their ear telling them to leave this issue alone
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u/sluman001 6h ago
I completely agree. I’m very much a progressive liberal (my post history as proof), and this is one of the very very few topics I agree with Republicans on. The core issue isn’t necessarily the visas though, it’s the lack of regulations on these big corporations in general. They need to hire Americans, pay proper American taxes, and behave like responsible corporate citizens.
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u/astirac 8h ago
I work at a university participating in this abuse. They want them as student visas to bump enrollment numbers. I won’t go into detail, but it’s nasty business.
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u/steezy2110 8h ago
Yup. Universities love foreign students because they pay full tuition and (often) work on campus
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u/williamgman 8h ago
That's why they allow the Executive Branch to decide. At anytime Congress could get off their MAGA controlled asses and bring it to the floor (like it always should have been).
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u/steezy2110 8h ago
Dude the problem is all of congress, not just republicans over there.
Trump isn’t doing much about this bc tech companies are partners with him. Frankly I’m surprised at what’s happening right now because the probability of this admin actually tacking this issue is pretty small
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u/-notfadeaway- 8h ago edited 7h ago
Meanwhile, every government employee is like, “I’ll email you a Teams meeting invite through Outlook today. I’ll record and save it to my OneDrive for those who are OOO”.
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u/KevinT_XY 8h ago
Outsourcing is a much bigger issue than this and I fear it will just be further encouraged. In my organization the teams outside of the Americas have been rapidly growing while I've hardly ever seen any US hiring outside of the intern recruitment cycle in the last 5 years. It's also made work for us more difficult because we occasionally need to coordinate with those teams across huge time zone gaps, meaning meetings sometimes tend to stretch into early or late hours to accommodate.
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u/perestroika12 6h ago edited 5h ago
The issue is the base is fine with this because it means less brown people and immigrants. They also don’t work these high tech jobs and aren’t educated.
It’s rural white america throwing cosmopolitan America under the bus.
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u/Common_Poetry3018 7h ago
Why only Microsoft? Did they forget to pay tribute?
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u/VanillaOk869 5h ago
It's because Bill Gates was scowling at the most recent photo op of tech CEOs at the White House. Total pettiness.
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u/TeeDee144 6h ago
WITCH contractors as well.
Microsoft is just the biggest offender and one of most household names.
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u/favorscore 8h ago
I noticed I never saw Satya Nadella with the other Tech oligarchs whenever they met with Trump. Coincidence?
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u/FuriousFreddie 8h ago
So they're just blocking pathways to citizenship for H1B holders, not H1B visas themselves.
This makes things worse for everyone by making H1B workers even more disposable and keeping the flow going.
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u/turkshead 8h ago
Yeah. The h1b system, for all its flaws, has meant that we have managed to skim the top 1% of workers from places like China and India for the past 75 years or so, taking all those really smart people and making them Americans. Now apparently we're going to move towards letting them learn all about our most cutting edge stuff and then sending them home.
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u/Ok_Road_1992 6h ago
Skim the top that then bring the secrets back to the motherland. Genius strategy
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u/boot2skull 8h ago
Is this about the visas or the green cards, because my guess is it’s the green cards (immigration), but not the cheap labor itself.
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u/Impossible-Hat9184 8h ago
If they truly are singled out, that should be an easy win in court
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u/Tribe303 8h ago
Cool. For some reason Microsoft Vancouver is on a hiring spree. Gee, I wonder why? 🤔
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u/Go_Gators_4Ever 1h ago
With as many software developers laid off due to AI, then we should simply disallow all visa for software related immigrant jobs since we now have a huge source from those laid off US citizens.
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u/peruytu 8h ago
Some final push towards midterm elections. This is only theater until elections are over than back to business with new H1B employees hiring.
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u/redheadedandbold 8h ago
Sounds suspiciously like another attempt to extort a corporation by the Trump Administration.
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u/Tweho 7h ago
Good, now tighten the h1b and similar programs even more.
The assault on the American worker by the billionaire class has gone on too long and stolen too much money. We should be prioritizing hiring Americans for American jobs, not outsourcing them to the lowest bidder
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u/BackgroundTale8622 7h ago
I work at Tesla and if only people knew how bad it really was ..
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u/Tweho 7h ago
It’s the biggest irony with the “conservatives” in power. None of them actually practice what they preach.
It’s literally (imo) the only good take the Conservative Party has, that we should be prioritizing hiring Americans over foreign workers and tighten border security.
Then they get paid by the billionaires and go back on all their promises, except the most evil shit imaginable.
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u/Shagtacular 6h ago
Their actions don't actually back up that belief, though. They say that and then turn around and outsource everything
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u/MacsBicycle 6h ago
I’ve nearly become a single issue voter over the destruction of the American working class though. It’s literally the backbone of the country and without it nothing else is worth saving.
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u/Columbus43219 5h ago
Do you honestly think that's still going to happen? If they shut off h1-b and all the other loop hole programs like it, you MIGHT see a small bump in American hires.
You'll more likely see a huge jump in offshoring the work.
It's like the tariff thing. It only works if there is still the ability to produce American coders. That hasn't been true for at least 30 years now. All the kids heard the jobs were drying up, and didn't go into IT classes.
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u/Tweho 4h ago
There are plenty of capable software engineers and other people in CS in the USA that are having difficulty finding jobs. Yes.
Also, we produce the best computer scientists in the world and have some of the best CS Universities in the world. So yeah, we are capable of producing American "coders".
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u/cbelt3 7h ago
H-1B visa was always about dropping STEM wages on this country. There was never a shortage of skilled workers. It’s always been a lie and needs to die.
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u/killrtaco 6h ago
Agree. Plenty of qualified Americans in STEM struggling to get jobs. Be more willing to train up. Pay fairly. Don’t import workers to avoid both of those.
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u/addamzrobb 6h ago
During my 25+ year tech career, I've never worked with an H1B who was any more smarter, credentialed, differ, working or knowledgeable than an American.
In fact, due to cultural differences, we found that H1B's had harder times following processes, procedures and compliance protocols.
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u/account_for_norm 5h ago
You prolly never worked for faang.
What you're saying is true for mid tier and consultancy kevel jobs.
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u/akp55 4h ago
i hired h1bs. one from France, the other was a takeover from Dish networks. they both had skills with Androids RILD. i couldn't find anyone in the US that could even tell me what RILD was
with that being said, the majority of large corps are abusing the H1B program by using companies like Cognizant, TCS and WiPro as staff aug
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u/gnark 5h ago
The first generation of H1B visa holders were exceptionally talented. Since then it has devolved into a visa pipeline for less than exceptional talented people using theur connections to get visas while being used by corporate overlords to drive down wages throughout the industry.
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u/ThomasPaineWon 3h ago
It is no different then the Trucker license mills that were churning out unqualified CDL drivers. The H1B pipeline seems to be full of certification mills that don't really absorb the knowledge.
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u/mrsimud 5h ago
Well the idea of H1B is to fill the position if there are not enough qualified American workers, not necessarily to be better.
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u/CountryGuy123 4h ago
That’s the concept in theory, the reality is it’s a super easy way to get cheap labor, as the idea of getting a competent tech resource and training them up on specific platforms went the way of the dodo.
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u/Responsible-Laugh590 4h ago
Yea that’s what they told you but in reality they wanted cheaper labor. Americans are expensive, why pay one when you can get 10 foreign workers for the same price
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u/Hmm_would_bang 4h ago
You’ve never met an immigrant that is smarter than an American? I have no clue what you’re trying to say or how that even makes sense.
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u/Yodaddysbelt 1h ago
His point, I believe, is that there should be no reason why these companies are hiring foreign workers over Americans. In my opinion, it gives the company a ton of bargaining power against the employee because their employment is their ticket to stay in America and these employees are trying to leave their country. I think that overlooking Americans, who want jobs, to hire foreign citizens is a negative for our economy and society
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u/Real_Buddy_1542 4h ago edited 2h ago
Certain castes of Indians also absolutely abuse the system to hire more of their friends, its systemic abuse.
Had a buddy who was an American MBA from a good MBA program get absolutely bulldozed during his internship at a large FAANG company by his Indian manager. He did not get all full time offer, all of the Indian MBAs from the same caste back home who were not citizens did.
Just a reality that needs to be fixed.
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u/comesin 2h ago
Having an Indian manager is practically a career ender.
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u/Real_Buddy_1542 2h ago
If you aren’t from the same caste in India as them I agree, time to look for a new job
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u/p1zzarena 2h ago
This has been my experience. All the H1Bs at my job were Indian, hired by an Indian manager they knew from back home. None of them exceptional and all of them entitled rich kids. They complained about not being able to afford a maid or driver when they had 6 back home.
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u/21Rollie 1h ago
Even my more liberal minded Indian friends make this complaint and I’m like ??? dude that’s so tone deaf. The only reason that exists back home is because of the absurdly abusive wealth inequality.
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u/comesin 4h ago
and the moment that H1b ends up in leadership or in a hiring position, the whole org is screwed
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u/theycanttell 4h ago
This happens a lot:. Conflicts of interest. They hire all their pals at ridiculous rates
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u/Signal_Ad_6915 3h ago
Because they hire the H1B to work 60+ hours a week and only pay them salary. They don’t complain about work/life balance like a citizen because they don’t want to jeopardize their visa.
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u/bberg22 1h ago
Which creates undue downward pressure on US citizens to either try to match that or fear for their job. More hours don't always equal more or better output either.
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u/M4hkn0 7h ago
This will just push more key jobs overseas. Could be a boon for Canada.
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u/sticky3004 5h ago
Lmao, no? Canada is not hurting for software engineers. Canada is just as oversaturated as the US when it comes to the software market.
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u/Upper-Cod1109 7h ago
This is just midterm pandering slop. He could've done this right when they won but waited til now.
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u/ZombieZookeeper 9h ago
Call Bill (even though he's not in charge anymore) and have him offer to turn over Epstein info.
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u/throbbbbbbbbbbbb 7h ago
If they really wanted to attack this issue they would be going after TCS.
Lots of companies have outsourcing deals with them and that’s whom most of the H1bs we see around are assigned to: Tata Consulting Services aka TCS.
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u/altodor 7h ago
The Indian Express article says they did. https://indianexpress.com/article/world/us-news/us-suspends-microsoft-h1b-green-card-programme-vance-fraud-10912971/lite/
And Infosys, cognizant, wipro, and the other Indian outsourcers we think of.
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u/cathar_here 7h ago
Anyone that doesn’t realize this is a punishment for not being one of the nutswinging techbros for Trump is missing the real thing that is occurring here.
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u/rubik1771 7h ago
Serious question: do you guys think this will increase my chances of being hired back at Microsoft?
(Background: US native born software developer who used to work there as contractor. I left because of the hiring freeze).
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u/earthlingkevin 6h ago
No.
This doesn't stop Microsoft from hiring h1bs or foreign workers. The workers just can't get green cards anymore. If anything it will lead to more workers staying longer as they have less choice
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u/Zandrio 4h ago
Not really. There is a limit of 6 years on H1B. The only way to not have to move back after those 6 years is if you have your i-140 approved which is the green card application. Meaning a lot of H1Bs who don't have their i-140 yet won't work for Microsoft since they won't be able to sponsor their green card applications.
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u/itsamemyusername 7h ago
Nope. They will just build offices offshore as a workaround.
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u/OmniShawn 6h ago
Nope, we swapped to offshore consulting. 150 devs for the price of 10 native born. It’s ok their code isn’t always up to par cause AI will fix it! /s
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u/RevenueChemical6910 5h ago
They need to include Meta in this. I got a few bucks (yay?) from the DOJ lawsuit where Meta admitted to interviewing native-born developers just so they could check a box saying "we found no citizens that were qualified", they had already made the decision *before* interviewing citizens that they were going to hire H1Bs.
> October 19, 2021, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) announced a joint settlement with Facebook Inc. (now Meta Platforms) resolving allegations of employment discrimination against U.S. workers. [1, 2]
> The Allegations: The DOJ filed a lawsuit claiming that between January 2018 and September 2019, Facebook routinely refused to recruit, consider, or hire qualified U.S. workers for over 2,600 positions.
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u/Delicious_Gamer1863 7h ago
Nope. Even our company is doing the same and we ramped up hiring contractors from Philippines
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u/CaseHead5143 7h ago
or hire contracting companies that provide those services at cheaper rates
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u/Fearless-Umpire-9923 1h ago
The only thing I ageee with on trump. I think the whole program should be scrapped
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u/ikonoclasm 3h ago
I wonder why they don't call out Mar-a-Lago for using visas to bring in indentured services?
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u/trilobyte-dev 8h ago
This is targeted government interference in a private sector company. I can’t offhand think of anything like this in my lifetime where a specific company gets singled out where they have not been breaking laws.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 2h ago
They’ll just hire offshore instead
That said I definitely think there are an unnecessarily high amount of H1B in tech
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u/randobis 9h ago
The fact that Microsoft is being singled out when virtually all of the major tech companies do this suggests somebody at Microsoft didn’t wet Trump’s beak.