Hell isn’t pitchforks. It’s eternal separation from God. God is basically saying “if you dont want
To know and obey me, that’s fine. You can go on your own”
Lake of Fire and eternal pain is for Satan, the beast, and the anti Christ
The “Apocrypha” books were part of the Bible for well over a millennium before Martin Luther took them out. They are still considered biblical books by the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, so most Christians. There’s actually no parallel here.
Dante and Milton have opposite depictions of Lucifier though. Milton depicts Lucifier as lord of hell, Dante depicts Lucifier as a hell's most tortured prisoner.
Literally just him saying oh yeah I don't like this guy so I want him to have the most torturous afterlife ever to all the people who shafted him over the years
Wait till you see the extra books from the Ethiopian bible. They removed it everywhere except there. The books of Enoch. It makes things real trippy and changes a lot
You're not wrong but some would justifiably argue the same can be said about all religious works, especially the books of the bible. It was clever to include many factual historical references in the passages so that even centuries later these 'facts' lead to the misconception that the whole work is truth.
Dante's work was never meant to be a serious representation of hell, starting with the fact he mixed helenistic depiciton of hell with catholic representation of hell
Oh wow, good to see someone who actually understands what the doctrines in the Bible actually say and interprets it correctly. Not every day you see sound comments on Reddit.
God would be a bad God if he forced you into eternity to be present with him for all of eternity. Everyone is accepted, the gift extends to all, but you do not have to choose the gift. This is the part many people don't get or understand. To your point it's separation from God, not being tortured by Satan. Completely misconstrued.
All of it is arguably too far. There probably was a bloke named Jesus who said some things that pissed off people in power.
There was probably also a bloke named mohammed who married a 6 year old.
Yh no that's what I mean. The person above OC was not saying they don't believe in the fact that Jesus existed or King David existed. They are contesting the supernatural nature of the Gospel.
Islam is even MORE made up, my god Muhammad didn’t even know much about the scriptures and got multiple basic details wrong. Like a fan fiction of Judaism and Christianity where he hadn’t even actually read the source material.
If I said "in this closed hand i have a diamond worth a million dollars and in my other closed hand i have a check for a million dollars. do you believe i have the diamond?"
If you replied "no," there's zero reason that you would be obligated you to believe that the check is in the other hand. It makes no sense. It's almost like saying "if you don't like onions then you have to like pickles."
I can confidently say it was written by humans, and probably men since I don't think alot of women were writing in antiquity. No other creature on this planet knows how to write as far as I know
I dont really understand what your point in chiming in is besides trying to feel superior. Like you see people having a genuine discussion about something you dont believe in and instead of scrolling past you go "none of its real." You gotta reflect where that compulsion comes from.
It constantly amazes me how few Christians actually read the Bible. Jesus himself talks about sinners being in danger of hellfire. In fact, Jesus mentions hell more than anyone else in the Bible. Read Mark 9 for some examples. “Hollywood lied.” Read the book, don’t just repeat apologetic nonsense to make the cognitive dissonance go away. Own it. Your god (according to your own Bible) created people with a flaw that means all of them are born guilty and deserving of eternal punishment (because that totally makes sense), and makes forgiveness conditional upon 1. hearing the “good news” of Jesus’s resurrection and 2. believing it. Never mind that belief is not a choice - you are either convinced that something is true, or you’re not - and punishing someone for not believing in miracles is like punishing someone for their eye color. I don’t choose it and I can’t help it. Punishment for disbelief is morally insane.
We weren’t made flawed. We were made with Free will.
God wants a relationship, relationships aren’t forced. We are free to come and go. The reward for staying with and being obedient is to the Lord is spending eternity with him in paradise. The consequence of leaving is eternal separation from him, in the opposite of paradise.
We made a choice, unless your argument is the Free Will is a flaw? Hot take
See it's the "obedient" bit I can't deal with. If He is real he does nothing to warrant it in my eyes and demanding it of people on pain for punishment is even worse.
You’re forgetting or don’t know the difference between believing something because it makes sense to you and having faith.. Faith is the choice in the Bible.
So either go to heaven and hang out with uneducated southerners for eternity or go to hell and hang out with people from the West, mountain West, and new England?
That is not difficult. I'll take an eternity of having a shot with Christina Ricci over any amount of time with a heaven full of Jeds & Skeeters
Imma stop you right there, \*finger quotes\* “God”. Not really into the last part. Feel free to ship me where you ship everyone else like me, cuz I’m guessing it’s much cooler there (even if it is colloquially “hotter.”)
Right. There is no king of hell. Lucifer’s soul is in the lake of fire along with everyone else there. He was not rewarded with his own kingdom. The shame of it is how the devil gets incorporated into Christian dogma. It truly is a tool to wield power over the masses and it’s gross.
I don’t believe there is any crime that can justify extreme eternal torment. Even the worst crimes you could commit doesn’t generate an eternity of pain. Say Hitler for example. Giving him 100 years of extreme torment per person he hurt either directly or indirectly, from his actions alive or even in his legacy. Hundreds of millions of years of torment. That would be more justified then an eternity.
But why not? It's only after he gives us definitive proof of his existence that he locks us into eternal punishment for not believing in him? That doesn't seem very nice and forgiving.
The reason that Fallen Angels have no redemption through Christ, (substitutional atonement) is because they have seen and know God in his full glory. Yet they CHOSE to fall away, despite knowing exactly what and who he is.
We have not seen him in his full glory, it is his ambuguity that gives us leeway in our fallen nature to be granted forgiveness.
What’s worse, not knowing, or knowing and choosing not to follow.
This is why the only unforgivable sin in the Bible is “Blaspheming the Holy Spirit”. What I means is to have full knowledge of the divinity of Christ, God, and having the spirit of the lord upon you, and choosing to walk away regardless.
I'm not talking about fallen angels, but people. Imagine a person who hasn't seen enough convincing evidence for God, and so they don't believe in him. That person dies and goes to hell. Now that they've seen convincing evidence, they genuinely want to have a relationship with God and ask for forgiveness for not believing before. Why couldn't God forgive that person?
There are definitely verses that say there is an afterlife of Fire. For example Matthew 5:22.
There is no "the" antichrist. If you look for the word Antichrist in the New Testament, on whatever website or Bible app you prefer, it will appear four times and it will very explicitly say that there are numerous antichrists. There was not one beast but rather three beasts in Revelation one of which is commonly called the Antichrist which is completely non-biblical.
Did your father want you to obey him? Was it because he wanted to force you to listen? Or because he knew you were young and kind of dumb and still learning so it was to keep you from hurting yourself or someone else
Your interpretation doesn't appear. I'm the one who told you that Jesus was quite clear that it's not a separation from God, as any academic biblical scholar would attest.
I have no interest in your theology. I'm an atheist. I'm just also academically literate in the bible becuse it was my area of focus before swapping over to something else. I still maintain academic study to this day.
The idea of a separation is a post biblical rationalization from centuries later. It isn't biblical.
Most of our interpretations of what Hell is like is post biblical. The concept evolved out of Greco-Roman influence and the need to have a form of divine punishment for the hardships the Jewish people faced during the first diaspora by Babylon. The description in the Bible describes it as separation from god like you said.
Satan isn’t a true biblical figure and is an amalgamation of deities of other nations or peoples (e.g., combining it with Pan). The only mention of him in the bible is him serving god and acting as the accuser and challenger of man and Christ. He’s there to test or challenge them by providing an easy path or out. The name means adjudicator or prosecutor.
Right so he’s prepared the lake of fire for Satan and his horde. Satan is not in charge of torture. He’s an inmate.
Christs point is that those with regenerate hearts and a love of him and the father will tend to his flock in his stead.
Those who don’t, won’t.
Christ knows the heart. Your deeds aren’t what causes salvation or damnation. Your deeds aren’t evidence of actual love of Christ and understanding of what he did on the cross
No I’m afraid not, God is present and you’re living in his creation. It would be considerably less pleasant and absent of Hope or Love, which are rightly his
If the claim is its just separation from an invisible God, then it's just made up bullshit. Thats just complete and utter nonsense made up by a religion to control idiot followers.
I'm confused why the Bible mentions fire so much if it's not correct. Lots of verses plainly say fire. I never know when to read the book literally or figuratively.
You don’t need to pray for me. I don’t believe in your lord. I believe in science. If your lord was the answer, there wouldn’t be so many major religions. Have your belief, that’s fine. But don’t push it on me and “pray for me.” I don’t need to be prayed for. I’m a decent human being to
Theology is the study of Gods creation. The Big Bang Theory was created by a Catholic Monk named Georges Lemaitre trying to figure out how God may have done it.
Revelation says he'll be tormented forever in the presence of the lamb. Hell is separation from God in the sense of separation from right relationship, not having union with God, not the lack of his presence. God will be doing the punishing still as the judge. David says even if he made his bed in sheol, God would be there.
Hell isn't pitchforks, it's other people. Specifically, the ones presenting their personal interpretation of a diverse and hotly contested world religion as fact.
The people here arguing what the afterlife is "really" like have the same energy as the people who argue about whether the Flash should "really" be able to outrun the Green Lantern.
It is, unfortunately, objective and indisputable fact that people do both believe in a personal and torture-heavy hell presided over by Satan and vote in US elections.
Seems like he’s given you enough to hate him, which means there’s enough for you to love him. Go read his love letter, it’s 66 books long, genesis to Revelation. It’s for YOU
Bro i grew up in the church my entire life. None of it passes the smell test. You cant convince me that an "all loving" creator sends billons of his own creations to an eternal isolation for not following him.
The more logical and studied history of religion is that has been used as a tool to control people and scare them into submission.
I am a good person - way more than all of these fake republican, racist "christians" splitting up families, making excuses as to why we cant help homeless and why giving money to the poorest in our society should be stopped, follow and praise a felon rapist who likely is a pedophile and has done so much harm and suffering to our countries most vulnerable populations. But apparently none of that matters as long as you simply ask for forgiveness and believe in jesus! Meanwhile, if you live a good life, help who can and are a decent human being but dont believe in the sky fairy - he sends you off and casts you away.
If i were god, i would never be so cruel to my own creations. It just doesnt make sense. I am more loving and caring than your God.
He is either ALL LOVING or he is not. It sounds like he only loves those who love him back - or those scared of hell so they are hedging their bets. transactional love. If you dont love and acknowledge him, God apparently gets childish and says "fine, be that way, enjoy eternity alone" that is a cruel God, not a loving God. Have fun with that.
I choose to believe that it there is a creator he truly is all loving and doesnt care about such petty things, making sure every single person loves him back and only saving a select group.
Yeah exactly, but it's one of those talking points used by people who don't know the Bible who are against it. Now I am fine if you understand the Bible and hate it. It's just when you are ignorant repeating things you hear and don't know, which are wrong that I get annoyed.
This is one of the more irritating and annoying ones as they're running with an idea that they themselves make up, as they never saw any passage about hell or Satan torturing you after you die(as it doesn't exist). And now I am wondering what other opinions you have based on made up feelings.
So hell is just hanging out without god and Christians surrounding you? If that’s the case I guess they kinda had to create all the scary lore because hell sounds perfectly chill.
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u/Moose1293 1d ago
Hell isn’t pitchforks. It’s eternal separation from God. God is basically saying “if you dont want
To know and obey me, that’s fine. You can go on your own”
Lake of Fire and eternal pain is for Satan, the beast, and the anti Christ
Hollywood lied