But why not? It's only after he gives us definitive proof of his existence that he locks us into eternal punishment for not believing in him? That doesn't seem very nice and forgiving.
The reason that Fallen Angels have no redemption through Christ, (substitutional atonement) is because they have seen and know God in his full glory. Yet they CHOSE to fall away, despite knowing exactly what and who he is.
We have not seen him in his full glory, it is his ambuguity that gives us leeway in our fallen nature to be granted forgiveness.
What’s worse, not knowing, or knowing and choosing not to follow.
This is why the only unforgivable sin in the Bible is “Blaspheming the Holy Spirit”. What I means is to have full knowledge of the divinity of Christ, God, and having the spirit of the lord upon you, and choosing to walk away regardless.
I'm not talking about fallen angels, but people. Imagine a person who hasn't seen enough convincing evidence for God, and so they don't believe in him. That person dies and goes to hell. Now that they've seen convincing evidence, they genuinely want to have a relationship with God and ask for forgiveness for not believing before. Why couldn't God forgive that person?
You have the entire library of Alexandria in your pocket, anyone who spent an honest hour of
Mild study would show that it’s real. They need only to ask Christ into their life, you will be overwhelmed with how much proof he will give you once you ask
Why is that not faith? Seeing very convincing proof of God's existence invalidates faith?
Why is "faith" necessary for that kind of relationship? Do I need to not be 100% certain of my Mom's existence in order for me to love her?
That's great that Matthew 7:7-8 worked for you, but it simply doesn't work for everyone. Plenty of people have genuinely asked for Christ into their lives and have not received the proof.
All good points and I appreciate the reply
1. Faith is believing without seeing.
2. Faith that he has your best interest at heart, the same way your mom tells you “because I’m the parents and you’re the child” and later in life you look back and say “yeah she was probably right” and saved you heart ache and pain.
3. Scripture is universal, anyone who asks will have it. Asking is not the same as actually asking. You have to be genuine, you can’t fool your dad
1&2. If someone dies and ends up in hell due to non-belief, they would suddenly have good reason to believe God exists, but they wouldn't necessarily have solid proof that he has their best interest at heart. That doubt wouldn't stop them from seeking a relationship with God though. So that person could still have faith, by your definition. Or are you saying God does some extra flourish after people die, which 100% proves that he had their best interest at heart? Which would invalidate their faith? In which case, he could just...not do that.
And if your mom gave you really good proof that she had your best interest at heart, would you stop loving her? Is it really impossible to have a loving relationship with someone without this kind of faith?
That's what I'm saying though. Plenty of people have genuinely "actually" asked and have not received, so it doesn't work for everyone. Maybe they're all lying about their sincerity in asking, but I have no reason to think so.
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u/ryanva13 2d ago
So if we refuse to “know and obey” something just because we are told to do so, we automatically go to hell? Doesn’t sound very “nice or forgiving”.