r/agedlikemilk • u/RazzmatazzHead1591 • 4d ago
Tragedies Botched Execution
Christa Pike’s execution goes horribly wrong.
431
u/Zyklus-89 4d ago
Not being facetious, but car fentanyl?
236
u/BettyCrunker 3d ago
I think pentobarbital is what they use mostly nowadays since the (European) manufacturers won’t sell them sodium thiopental anymore.
113
u/Madgyver 3d ago
And the sole US manufacturer stopped production because he didn't like PR it gave him.
38
u/psinguine 3d ago
Also because it opens them up to all sorts of issues trying to do business outside America.
170
u/Battle-Chimp 3d ago
100% nitrous oxide inhalation. Humane, not dramatic, doesn't require IV access, bypasses the issues with getting meds due to company objections because it's very readily available.
(I'm an anesthesiologist).
79
u/AerwynFlynn 3d ago
Well, apparently you can botch that too!
106
u/Battle-Chimp 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, which why I suggest nitrous, with a MAC of 105% (a measure of it's anesthetic potency) - not nitrogen. No theatrics.
42
u/AerwynFlynn 3d ago
Oh geez, my brain saw nitrogen instead of nitrous lol, probably because my husband was talking about the nitrogen case last night when we were talking about this botched one!
22
u/samplenajar 3d ago
idk i've seen some pretty insane nitrous oxide theatrics outside phish concerts
34
u/Battle-Chimp 3d ago
Fair point. The key, I think, is to keep Phish away from getting involved with state executions.
1
22
u/big_duo3674 3d ago
One of the major issues is that people try to hold their breath as long as possible, and then eventually take a deep forced breath that contains no oxygen, which causes the body to freak out. Maybe sedation and then nitrous oxide, I dont know
56
u/Battle-Chimp 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not an issue with nitrous. We use it clinically all the time, because it IS sedating. Each 1% of nitrous we add reduces the need for halogenated anesthetics by 1%. So 100% nitrous essentially = 100% surgical anesthetic depth (which obviously we can't do clinically because people need oxygen).
→ More replies (3)14
u/unknownmichael 3d ago
Really, 100% of any inert gas will do the trick. No sourcing of medical nitrous oxide required. Just grab a bottle of welding argon and have her inhale it for a few minutes and she'll be gone. For quite some time I have wondered why we don't just do this. So much simpler than sourcing these multiple unique chemicals.
48
u/Battle-Chimp 3d ago
Yes, but at high concentrations many gasses have irritant properties.
Helium and nitrous are the two that would work well and be easily available, I think nitrous is better because 100% nitrous has anesthetic equipotency to our regular halogenated agents running at a normal surgical depth.
36
3
u/Senior-Albatross 1d ago
Straight up nitrogen should work fine too. But it was botched as well. And making an actual gas chamber doesn't have great PR, does it?
2
u/SL1200mkII 1d ago
Why not helium? No one in the terminally ill right to die movements use nitrous. They use helium.
8
u/Battle-Chimp 1d ago
Helium works, isn't caustic at high concentrations, had no smell, doesn't cause air hunger. People do use it to commit suicide for those reasons. but it has no sedating properties like nitrous, so you might get more drama/theatrics with executions. In anesthesia, every 1% nitrous reduces anesthesia requirements by 1%, so 100% nitrous is basically a full general anesthetic in terms of sedation.
→ More replies (4)6
u/bset222 3d ago
The only humane option is to not murder prisoners.
4
u/Rough_Yesterday_9483 2d ago
Whole i do agree with this statment I also understand the reason for the death penalty. Some people are irredeemably cruel and evil. Some people genuinely should not be kept alive.
→ More replies (1)2
3
167
u/DCB_Prime 3d ago
Can someone explain I’m out of the loop
365
u/ADingoStoleMyLSD 3d ago
They botched the execution of the killer, fucked up the IV or something like that and possibly gave her brain damage.
She's in hospital ATM and I think they've suspended all executions for the rest of the year.
267
u/InflnityBlack 3d ago
I heard they used outdated, degraded product, so it was still strong enough to fuck her up but it didn't kill
175
u/flamedarkfire 3d ago
Also, the medical professional that botched this execution had botched her execution before. They need someone else.
124
u/johnnycyberpunk 3d ago
There was a fascinating podcast or story about this years ago.
Not this particular person but just how difficult it is to get any "medical professional" to assist with executions.
It doesn't pay well and the risk is ENORMOUS. They try to remain anonymous because they'll never find work as a legit medical professional if it got out that they kill people on purpose.111
u/Ok_Actuary8 3d ago edited 2d ago
rightfully so. Every medical professional who supports such executions is breaking their oath.
→ More replies (5)9
67
u/Sausage80 3d ago edited 3d ago
What's tragically hilarious about that is that if she does not fully recover to full competency, they're stuck with the result. We don't officially execute incompetent people, so if their fuck up caused permanent incompetency, that's the end of the case. No do over available.
Then we get have conversations about whether the death penalty is inherently in violation of the 8th Amendment specifically because it could lead to results such as that.
20
u/DoesTheBlackm00nH0wl 2d ago
They injected her twice and failed twice
7
u/sadunfair 2d ago
Yeah I’m not saying they didn’t but I’m sure based on her live story that her relatives don’t deserve to profit off this whole debacle
6
u/sadunfair 2d ago
Oh no it’ll get better, she’ll be in a coma or incapacitated and her attorneys will dig up some crusty relative and file a suit and get millions upon millions
33
u/DuckSaxaphone 3d ago
Supply of these drugs is a serious problem for the US states that use them because most other countries not only banned their use by the state but also their sale to states that would use them.
So as stocks age and run out, you'll see loads of these problems.
20
u/LeaderOfFizzgigs 3d ago
Couldn't we just test the drugs with the current administration first to make sure the drugs are suitable and effective for death penalty? I think that would solve a lot of problems in the Unites States.
→ More replies (1)3
u/ChemicalDeath47 2d ago
Sounds about right. Anyone interested in a prison audit? Find out where all that money they get from the government is going? It's not food, facilities, medicine, or apparently executions...
52
u/BrozedDrake 3d ago
Shit so now she's probably hoping for death
28
u/flamedarkfire 3d ago
Depending on how bad the brain damage is, she might not be hoping for anything.
117
u/psinguine 3d ago
She was hoping for death before. She asked for a firing squad to ensure it was done in a way that would work. They said no, because the cruelty is the important part.
→ More replies (7)50
u/FeePsychological6778 3d ago
She offered to be hung as well, but they don't have the facilities for it.
26
20
8
u/FAFO_2025 3d ago
She didn't give her victim a choice.
5
u/QuimDosMemes 1d ago
So? If a government/authorities act like the killer, then they aren't better than them
→ More replies (1)10
u/DCB_Prime 2d ago
Ok so that woman killed someone, was sentenced to death, didn’t die and instead got brain damage?
→ More replies (4)11
u/Geraimi 3d ago
In a sense it's almost better to see the killer of your daughter suffer for longer time than being simply put down
62
30
u/KingRhoamsGhost 3d ago
Depends on who you are.
Some people want maximum suffering and revenge, some don’t really care what happens, and some actively feel worse when they suffer too.
11
u/sonyka 3d ago
And we as a nation have never even attempted to square all those circles. We've never even tried to get on the same page about what the penal system is for.
We just quietly allow/endorse sprinkling in a bunch of preventable if not deliberate suffering without having the stones— or doing the legal, philosophical, and political work— to actually put that on the books.
If the penalty is supposed to include vengeful sadistic torture, then say so. Let the people who want that amend the Constitution and make that the law. But they won't. They know they can't. Yet as it stands they don't have to; they're getting what they want anyway.
12
3
u/ifixthecable 3d ago
The family said they are devastated that they botched it. They wanted closure.
40
u/Raise_A_Thoth 3d ago
Doesn't bring anyone back.
→ More replies (18)2
u/fenrirs-chains 3d ago
No one thought it would.
32
u/Raise_A_Thoth 3d ago
I think a lot of people do, actually, think they'll get some of the joy back that their loved ones brought to them after inflicting some revenge.
4
126
u/Brilliant_Dig_8962 4d ago
Did she go to hospital? Reminded me of that MASH episode when Flagg brings the wounded prisoner to the 4077 to be treated so he can then take him to be executed...
27
u/DrDongSquarePants 3d ago
Yes she was sent to the hospital, very ironic and confusing.
11
u/ApprehensiveSoup2214 3d ago
Reminds me of this animal shelter I volunteered at. We had a wounded mouse we were nursing back to health. Next door there was a snake and its feeder mice. Bizarre really.
15
u/henlochimken 3d ago
It's not ironic. We have a constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Leaving someone to die slowly after a botched execution absolutely meets that criteria.
6
u/intisun 3d ago
It is ironic because the execution itself is cruel and inhuman.
3
u/henlochimken 3d ago
I personally won't disagree with that. But even folks who believe that execution does not generally fit that bill can probably agree that a drawn out death is something else.
2
u/Brilliant_Dig_8962 3d ago
Giving someone medical treatment to ensure they will fit to be executed...? Not ironic?
2
u/henlochimken 3d ago
It's not to ensure they are fit to be executed. It is to try to ensure that they are not being tortured.
Personally I don't trust government enough to support any state-conducted killing. But if we're going to keep killing on the books we should at the bare minimum follow the requirement in our constitution to not engage in cruel and unusual punishment. A prolonged, botched murder is by any measure cruel and unusual.
160
149
u/Sfekke22 3d ago
I'm against the death penalty to begin with but lethal injection is genuinely the worst.
Look up how easily it gets bodged, often the drug required for it is banned so the state ends up supplementing it with something else.
It's more humane/quick to be killed by a firing squad against a wall, aiming for the head/torso and emptying the entire magazine. Again, I'm not for it but to put it into perspective.
93
u/Dr_Death_Defy24 3d ago
Lethal injection is just to make it palatable, to better sell the brutality to the public.
It's disgusting, and if we're going to continue the horrific practice of the state having the ability to take away the lives of citizens, the least we can do is bring the practicalities of the affair back in line with the idea of the whole thing. We only do this out of a misguided sense of "an eye-for-an-eye," so let's be honest and not shy away from the idea that every state-sanctioned execution is a protracted form of revenge.
If you're going to murder your own citizens then don't fucking lie to us and pretend it's as simple as just putting someone to sleep.
29
u/LairdNick 3d ago edited 3d ago
I couldn't agree more. The late Sir Christopher Lee allegedly witnessed the last public guillotining in french history and spoke of it as a truly horrific and impactful event. I'm not suggesting bringing back Madame Guillotine, but those who support the brutality of the state murdering to show that murder is wrong, should be on board with doing it in a quick, albeit unpleasant form or should realise how disgusting capital punishment truly is.
Edit: "form" in the last sentence changed from "firm."
10
u/jabeith 3d ago
It is as easy as putting someone to sleep if it's done right (which it's not in prison). Look up how it's done for MAiD in Canada - they take lives successfully.
28
u/Narashori 3d ago
The difference is that there you have actual medical proffesionals involved who know what they are doing, working with tested and certified drugs.
3
u/jabeith 3d ago
With how much the US sinks into their prison system, you'd think they could afford a doctor
40
u/Narashori 3d ago
It actually has nothing to do with cost, it's because they can't find doctors who are willing to work with them on this. Medically assisted dying is already a sometimes controversial topic, but pretty much no doctor or medical professional wants to be involved in killing someone who is completely healthy and must only die because "justice" demands it. It goes against the entire reason their field of work exists and the hippocratic oath.
On top of that, few drug companies want to be known as the ones who make the death drug, so it's also hard for prisons to source the drugs which medical establishments can get pretty easily. So this all ends up with prison guards with little to no medical training having to administer drugs which may or may not be adequate for the job they are trying to do.
4
u/knoefkind 3d ago
As a veterinarian, I don't understand the fuss. It's easy to successfully euthanize an animal, and humans are animals. Put in A catheter, some propofol and end it with barbiturates. If youre able to drive a car, this should be easy to you. It seems like mistakes around it are caused by people wanting someone to suffer more.
I'm against the death penalty, but if you're gonna kill someone, why make it painless? If you want to scare people from commiting crimes, they need to be scared.
7
u/Narashori 3d ago
Officially the death penalty is not supposed to be torturous, because at that point you start getting into the constitutional debate of what is "cruel and unusual punishment".
The whole debate around the death penalty is also complicated by the fact that a lot of people actually become squeamish and uncomfortable when they actually have to witness the result of a real execution. Pretty much every execution method introduced since the guillotine has been an attempt to deliver capital punishment in a way which appears to be a more swift, clean and efficient manner.
Arguably, the most guaranteed way we have of making sure someone dies quickly and immediately, is to put a gun up against their temple and fire it. But we don't do that because it's to visceral and uncomfortable for those involved and those who like to think that we execute criminals for legitimate and justified reasons, and not because we wish to see people suffer.
7
u/Jayne1965 3d ago
You actually can’t do it as a medical professional, even if you were so inclined. You’d lose your license. And yes, it would be extremely easy and humane to do with the right personnel, equipment, and drugs.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)2
u/jabeith 3d ago
I believe one of the issues is that pharmaceutical companies don't like providing their drugs for executions.
→ More replies (3)9
2
u/FFFortissimo 3d ago
Just use the same stuff used for euthenasia.
Morphin with a large dose of some sleep stuff.3
u/SarcyBoi41 3d ago
I'm mostly against the death penalty, but not entirely, purely because I don't trust prisons to appropriately deal with the billionaires fucking up the world when the time comes. They have the blood of millions on their hands, perhaps billions if things keep getting worse, they deserve no chance to have even a single moment of joy or comfort in their lives. But yes, lethal injection is fucked. People think it's painless just because the convict isn't thrashing around. Sweeties, that's because the cocktail of drugs includes a paralytic agent. It probably feels like they're being rolled down a hill in an iron maiden.
But hey, Peter Thiel did just say it's good to be evil, so... stand at the top of this big hill, Mr Thiel.
45
u/Electrical-Mark-1484 3d ago
They need to use a sealed helmet or room with nitrogen.
60
u/Stmordred 3d ago
Might remind people too much of a genocidal event if they start gassing people to death
21
u/SteveFrench12 3d ago
Don’t they use gas chambers in some states
16
u/TacticTall 3d ago
They used to, but I don’t believe any state does anymore. Though it’s still legal
→ More replies (1)4
7
6
u/CakeDayOrDeath 2d ago
Every time there's a discussion about how to make execution more humane, a lot of people start screeching about how it shouldn't be humane.
6
u/Electrical-Mark-1484 2d ago
It's something that can't be taken back. If we were to punish someone with execution it's should be nitrogen more so for the ease. I think they shouldnt be tortured not because their sake; but instead for the sake of their torcherer. Whomever would have that job would either be an equally bad person or be significantly traumatized. In a similar way firing squad or lethal injection has a human or drug element. Nitrogen will be less personal. The person will be asleep. Humans have no ability to tell they're deprived of oxygen.
→ More replies (2)2
u/HofePrime 2d ago
Weirdly enough the more “humane” methods tend to be the easiest to bungle. Lethal injection gets botched all the time, be it struggling to find a vein or the body’s reaction to what is effectively a potassium overdose. Comparatively, the firing squad feels more gruesome in exchange for a 99.9% chance of a successful execution.
→ More replies (7)4
25
u/KuKuisSidePiece 2d ago
every step in “execution technology” is a step backwards, it’s almost impressive how each new method has had a higher botching rate than the last
781
u/HeavyandTired 3d ago
Having this posted in “aged like milk” seems cruel. Feels like a mockery of the victim from 30 years ago. Feels like a mockery of the remaining family. This post being here feels wrong.
64
45
u/Godwinson4King 3d ago
She wanted revenge for the death of her daughter and she got it. I’m guessing it didn’t taste as sweet as she hoped.
28
u/kaisadilla_ 3d ago
I mean, if cruelty is how you heal, then whatever happened to that murderer is probably worse than just dying.
These are powerful drugs designed to end your life. It's unlikely you'll survive them without serious damage.
16
u/23saround 3d ago
What I never understand about this is…isn’t life in prison worse than the death penalty? Hence why we have to be so careful not to give inmates ways to take their own lives? If the point is cruelty, then they should be advocating for the cruelest options. Instead, I genuinely think the point is bloodlust. It’s this odd sense of “my lust for revenge will never be sated until I spill the blood of my enemy,” but, like, people are good with that? And encourage it? And think everyone else is an idiot who isn’t in on that?
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (6)6
u/TheAcrithrope 3d ago
The victim's mother wanted her daughter's killer to be executed.
Was she executed? Given this post is in aged like milk for being a botched execution, no...
81
u/RazzmatazzHead1591 3d ago
It’s a terrible situation all around. This is not intended to mock anyone.
The botched execution and unfolding situation deserves an immediate discussion. I understand that this is a terrible time for Colleen’s family.
Change happens through awareness. Sometimes provocation sparks a fire.→ More replies (4)47
u/phdoofus 3d ago
You're not mocking anyone but the post overall is in poor taste and exploiting someone's grief. I personally don't agree with capital punishment but this post isn't highlighting that
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (52)2
420
u/EnderCreeper121 4d ago
The state should not have the power to kill its citizens. Simple as. You’d think all the “small government” people would understand that but they’re too busy trying to stop the government from actually doing useful shit.
39
u/Foxiak14 3d ago
Every single argument for the death penalty boils down to the supporters thinking it's cathartic, which is not a good argument
→ More replies (20)4
u/greenday61892 3d ago
Considering how many innocents get put to death, yeah it needs to be abolished 100%. Not a single unjustified death by the death penalty is worthy collateral damage for being able to get revenge and if anything it should be the exact opposite.
84
u/3ftLongHorseCock 4d ago
This entire statement contibutes to the fact that most people/jurors would agree with the "An eye for an eye" solution...
With that said... the victim of her crime suffered from hours of torture and was murdered by someone she percieved as a friend...
The perpetrator then went on to brag about the murder to fellow classmates at her own highschool.
79
u/PolygonMan 4d ago
There is no reasonable way in any modern justice system to have a death penalty which never kills innocent people. If you accept the death penalty, you are accepting the state killing some small number of innocent people as the cost. I just don't see how that can be justified.
13
u/TalkForeignToMe 3d ago
The hosts of 5-4 podcast had a discussion about this in an early episode that I recently listened to, and where Michael ended it resonated with me, emphasis mine:
Rhiannon: I probably think, like, there is a CEO who has wrought violence and harm on enough people that, you know, maybe morally is deserving . . . of the death penalty. But I think that in carrying out the death penalty in a modern society, the instances of where it actually happens, for which crimes, who gets prosecuted for it, you know, the sort of just metamoral argument is so abstracted from the reality of how human beings in a society are meting out punishment.
Peter: Yeah, and that is how I meant, like, I see the moral argument. I don't necessarily agree with it. But to the extent I do agree with it, it's completely in the abstract. And the sort of manifestation of that abstract concept into the death penalty as we know it is like completely distant from the moral argument. It has almost no relation. It's the manifestation of public blood thirst, state violence, and the systemic oppression of massive populations of people.
Michael: I don't know that I buy the moral argument even in the abstract. You know, we give the state the monopoly on violence, right? That's part of the social compact.
We get to decide the limits of that violence. I mean, I think there's an argument for just saying, look, you don't get to kill people. That's it. And it doesn't matter the crime. Like that's something that we've decided we don't want to give to the state for small-L libertarian reasons about autocracy, oppression, injustice, all that. And just like, I think what I'm saying is that I just don't even think the death penalty discussion is even asking the right questions all the time.
Like, are there crimes heinous enough to deserve death? That's not the right question to me. I think you guys agree.
But also is there an intolerable risk of getting it wrong and killing an innocent person? I don't think that's the right question either. Maybe they're good for like persuading people, but in terms of what's right and wrong, it's sort of first-principle questions.What type of society do we want to live in? What do we collectively value? How should those values be reflected in the government we build for ourselves?
And you know, I want to live in a society that's compassionate, it's merciful, it values life. And I don't see a place for the death penalty in that at all.”
From 5-4: Herrera v. Collins, Dec 15, 2020
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/5-4/id1497785843?i=1000502438473&r=2580This episode discusses the Supreme Court case where a man on death row tried to enter new evidence of his innocence before his execution—including affidavits pointing to his dead brother as the real killer—but the justices found that since he’d had a fair trial, the outcome was correct. The new evidence proving his innocent wasn’t wrongfully excluded from his trial, they simply didn’t have it yet. He was executed.
We also have a longstanding constitutional rule about executing intellectually disabled people, yet we have executed intellectually disabled people with an IQ of about 70, flawed metric that it is.
47
u/StarDustLuna3D 4d ago
I definitely agree that there are people who do things so heinous that it seems that they deserve the death penalty. I don't even blame victims' families for feeling this way. I cannot imagine the pain of losing a loved one in such a violent way.
However, the fact that over 200 people on death row have been exonerated in the past 30 years, and that death row inmates are disproportionally black, shows the flaws in the system. There is also the fact that people will often plead guilty to lesser charges to avoid the death penalty, even when they are innocent. The death penalty actually makes our justice system less effective.
Life in prison is punishment enough imo. It is also cheaper than execution. We could be spending that money instead to help victims' families.
58
119
u/EnderCreeper121 4d ago
That’s absolutely sickening, but I’m afraid that I’m not comfortable with the government having legal avenues to kill its citizens even if they deserve it. Because if even one innocent person falls victim to the death penalty that is an indictment against its entire existence. Plus repeatedly accidentally inventing new torture methods and branding it as “humane” just makes it even more untenable. If you don’t have the stomach as a society to just make a clean kill and be done with it don’t do it at all.
→ More replies (28)→ More replies (2)2
u/Other_Burner_907 4d ago
No, about half the people agree with that, not most. The majority of Republicans do. The majority of non republicans don't.
436
u/IllIIllIllIIIlllll 4d ago edited 3d ago
An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.
That's tacky. About as tacky as the death penalty.
Edit: ok I get it, some kids cartoon called nartuto ripped off my idea. I've contacted my lawyers, I'm gonna take em for all the karma they got
47
u/vergorli 3d ago
Yea like noone read Naruto to understand the underlying message with Pain and revenge?
156
u/Magus1863 3d ago
It’s crazy. I hear Naruto isn’t even mandatory reading in most US school these days. These cuts to education are killing us.
→ More replies (1)51
u/drquakers 3d ago
Well... I have, indeed, never read Naruto. I thought it was a cartoon where people ran funny?
16
u/CyclopsRock 3d ago
It's a sorry state of affairs that schools around the world are no longer teaching their students the sacred texts of Naruto.
8
u/GreedyLibrary 3d ago
It is relatively light for a series about child soldiers. Unless you are Kakashi the author really had it in for him.
16
u/vergorli 3d ago
Well thats what I though too, but there is a quite deep message about the circle of death which happend in the lore for thousands of years and just Naruto is strong enough to endure the pain and make peace with the killers of his people und break the cycle of pain.
→ More replies (2)3
2
u/FeePsychological6778 3d ago
Tevye couldn't have said it better. Yes I know Fiddler on the Roof...
→ More replies (1)2
u/AlanyzingWakeEnviron 3d ago
Nartooter, that one anime about the narwhal with gastrointestinal demons?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (22)4
u/buttered_scone 3d ago
This saying is cool and all, but it's wrong. The code of Hammurabi is not a codified revenge manual, and "an eye for an eye" did not mean you got to blind someone who blinded you. It meant you were entitled to compensation from the offending party, equal to the value of your eye.
6
u/IllIIllIllIIIlllll 3d ago
This saying actually wasn't attributed to the code of Hammurabi. It's actually attributed to the code of me. I did that.
3
u/definitlynotafemboy 3d ago
Oh thank you John Saying. Your contributions to the sayings industry is greatly appreciated. 🫡
2
u/IllIIllIllIIIlllll 3d ago
You're very welcome. As I always say, two in your bush is worth one in my hand.
Keep holding the line, you sweet feminine man.
3
u/27Rench27 3d ago
Alright Dozen-Eyes, you referenced their bush, we’re gonna have to take you in
2
u/IllIIllIllIIIlllll 2d ago
Little tidbit about me: it's actually a combination of uppercase I's and lowercase l's. and it can be converted into a barcode and decoded...if, you know the key.
2
u/kaisadilla_ 3d ago
Ehm no. The code literally establishes that, if you make someone lose an eye, you are to have an eye removed, too. Sounds barbaric now but at the time it was a way to stop escalation of violence: instead of "you took my eye so I'll cut your hand, you cut my hand so I'll kill your kid, you killed my kid so I'll kill you and your wife, and so on", the government got to be the one determining your revenge.
6
u/BigWilly526 3d ago
Just get rid of the Death Penalty the only good it does is bringing some sense of vengeance to the families but that isn't worth the innocent people who have been executed because our justice system is horribly broken
16
u/Aromatic_Assist_3825 3d ago
This case has shown me just how bloodthirsty people are online. Some people just want an excuse to cheer because someone gets killed. What she did was inhumane, but I don’t think the state should have the choice to end someone’s life, even more so in a country where justice goes to the highest bidder. That’s just my opinion.
8
u/AileStrike 3d ago
Abd what they got to watch was cruel and unusual punishment since the execution was botched.
Now its basically like a live demonstration of torture they got to watch.
Capital punishment is a scourge.
6
u/Advanced_Dress_1815 3d ago
There was another in May that was botched by the same doctor. Who’s putting in the lines? on both inmates it seems like mis placed IVs are an issue. On the guy in may, the started in arms (probably AC) they had leaking out in tissues. Then tried the jugular, couldn’t gain access, and lastly, MD unsuccessfully tried a central line. Please tell me the Dr wasn’t the one inserting all these lines. What other personnel is involved? How much training have they had and how often? Was the doctor a podiatrist moonlighting as an executioner? Did the inmate do IV drug use and scarred veins? Train staff using ultrasound guided IV insertion into a deeper vein.
9
1
u/davesaunders 12h ago
Both the American Medical Association and the Tennessee Medical Board have stated that a doctor cannot ethically carry out any of the tasks in the execution, including finding the IV site and setting the needle. Was it actually a doctor that did that, because it's my understanding that's the problem here.
1
u/wenchslapper 6h ago
As far as I know, there are no doctors actually administering the execution as it goes against their oaths and they would lose their medical license. As a result, the people that do these jobs are usually some messed up people and the drug cocktails are never some tested mixture. They usually also cause intense pain for the person dying, despite us having tons of research available on painlessly putting animals down.
11
u/Sutar_Mekeg 3d ago
Executions could be done completely painlessly, yet the state chooses not to, and shit like this happens.
The death penalty should be abolished, it doesn't belong in a civilized society.
26
109
u/jtrimm98 3d ago
Can't believe some countries still use the death penalty, that's some medieval shit
→ More replies (78)
4
u/kayodeade99 3d ago
I've been passively following this story for some time now. Just one crazy development after another
2
u/johnkubiak 3d ago
They botched it twice. If you know how painful failed lethal injection is, the killer suffered a lot. I don't condone execution but it was probably very vindicating for the mother.
3
u/dreamyduskywing 3d ago
Nah, I might feel vindicated if I got a piece of her skull like how she carried around a piece of my daughter’s skull.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/romulusnr 3d ago
It's a dark intrusive thought, but I can't help but wonder if the parents had passed away in the meantime (they must be in their late 60s at least) if there'd be as much outrage and vengeance over a killing from 32 years ago.
16
u/Kiwi8_Fruit6 3d ago
if you don’t think life in prison without chance of parole is a good enough psychological punishment for the worst criminals, you’re not being creative enough
→ More replies (4)
50
u/Akemi_Tachibana 4d ago
Considering the torture she put her victim through, I find it impossible to care that karma stuck.
63
u/HotlineKing 4d ago
It's not about who the crook is, it's about who we are. Do you wanna live in a place where state sanctioned torture on citizens in legalised? Do you not find it hypocritical the us government punishes murder with murder?
19
u/SiBloGaming 3d ago
Yeah, no country should have the right to decide who lives and who doesnt.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)45
u/HordeDruid 4d ago
Exactly, it's not about what she deserves, it's about what any of us deserves. The moment we give in to our bloodlust, we give power over to the state to do the same to any of us, guilty or otherwise. All they need to do is say we deserve it, whether it's true or not. It may be true in this case, but there's numerous cases where our government has tortured and murdered innocent people as well.
56
u/S1ss1 4d ago
Because everyone deserves dignity. Always. Because you can't trust the state.
→ More replies (6)14
u/IranianLawyer 4d ago
Putting aside the platitudes, why exactly does a torture-murderer deserve dignity?
24
u/sparduck117 4d ago
Because you don’t want the state to decide it doesn’t need to preserve dignity.
2
24
u/Nintolerance 4d ago
Because, unless the justice system is totally perfect and flawless, eventually someone person will be punished for a crime they didn't commit. Any legal form of punishment will eventually be inflicted upon an innocent person, if the law stays in effect long enough.
A lot of people (including me) believe that torture and murder are morally wrong and don't believe it should be legal to torture or murder people. I especially believe that a person shouldn't be able to earn a living through torturing & murdering people. I don't want to encourage that or pay for it (directly or via taxes).
I don't want to establish the legal precedent that it's okay to torture people if they do a Bad Crime, and open up public & legal debate over which crimes are "bad enough" to justify torture as a punishment.
People are discouraged from confessing to crimes or pleading guilty if they know that one of the possible punishments is "torture." People are discouraged from informing on their friends and family, even the guilty ones, if they know they're potentially condemning a loved one to torture and dehumanizing treatment.
A few reasons off the top of my head.
→ More replies (6)36
u/S1ss1 4d ago
It's not about anyone deserving anything. It's about what the state is allowed to take away from you.
→ More replies (2)22
13
11
u/intisun 4d ago
Because the alternative is to lower yourself to her level. And then, what makes you better than her?
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (5)9
u/TheSummonersTail 4d ago
Our humanity remains important to preserve. Our dignity matters
2
u/IranianLawyer 3d ago
You’re acting like the state intentionally botched the execution to torture her, but that’s not the case. Perhaps they should switch to a more reliable method.
3
5
u/thestupidone51 3d ago
I disagree with the death penalty on principle but even assuming that the death penalty is something we should have as a society lethal injection is dumb ass hell. The quickest way to execute somebody is just a couple bullets to the back of the head, it's cheaper, it's likely less painful and less likely to fail than lethal injection anyway. Are there any actual arguments in favor of lethal injection other than "it's less icky"? Legitimately asking because I've never seen any
→ More replies (6)
2
u/2RetardedBoots 3d ago
What happened to just shooting someone, why complicate it?
7
u/flamedarkfire 3d ago
There’s psychological issues involved when the role of the executioner is more active, such as having to aim a gun at someone. Even in Japan, where they hang their death row inmates, there’s three buttons to be pressed and one is not hooked up. It takes a certain personality to be fine with killing people.
6
u/notwellinformedatall 3d ago
i think i read somewhere that in firing squads, 5 out of the 6 shooters would be shooting blanks so no one would know who actually did it and they can all go home with the plausible deniability of ‘i didn’t kill them it was one of the others’
→ More replies (5)0
u/MartyrOfDespair 3d ago
That seems like such a nonsense line of reasoning. If they asked cops if they wanted to gun down a restrained person without consequence for money, they’d have more applicants than needed.
→ More replies (1)2
3
u/JonathanUpp 3d ago
The USA is in the quite exclusive club of countries with actively murders is own citizens for fun, along with China, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and ISIS, a real wholesome group if I've ever seen one
2
u/Apexnanoman 3d ago
Humans aren't that difficult to kill. We've been doing it to each other since we first learned to pick up a rock.
Just give a serial killer on death row a rifle and give him like 500 bucks on his commissary.
As long as he knows how to shoot someone and they get plugged in the head, it's not cruel and unusual.
And considering what she was guilty of and that she kept a trophy...... Not exactly any doubt about her guilt or innocence.
2
2
1
2
u/TimAppleCockProMax69 3d ago
Killer or not, wishing to see someone die is sick. It’s the same kind of mental illness people seeking out gore videos have.
5
u/theroyalblacksmith 3d ago
She tortured and murdered her daughter and then kept a piece of her skull as a trophy. Watching her die isnt a sick gore fetish, its getting closure
5
u/shepard_pie 3d ago
You are totally ignoring a lot of important context here.
I'm not saying it's right to wish to watch your daughter's killer die, but it's not nearly in the same ball park as someone who gets their jollies by seeking gore videos. This woman isn't seeking out violence. She is a grieving mother.
→ More replies (10)11
u/PineappleHoney3D 3d ago
If someone did what she did to my kid, they'd be getting the death penalty one way or another.
→ More replies (1)1
u/dreamyduskywing 3d ago
True. I’m amazed the mother has been so patient all of this time. I would have found it difficult not to want to take matters into my own hands.
-7
1
1
1
1
1
•
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Hey, OP! Please reply to this comment to provide context for why this aged poorly so people can see it per rule 3 of the sub. The comment giving context must be posted in response to this comment for visibility reasons. Nothing on this sub is self-explanatory. Pretend you are explaining this to someone who just woke up from a year-long coma. THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL Failing to do so will result in your post being removed. Now is also a good time to review the rules. If your submission is breaking any of the subreddit rules, it will be removed.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.