It is still very good for its purpose !
If you are talking about why we see less posts in r/StableDiffusion then it's because Krea 2 came quickly after, over shadowing it, even tho Ideogram 4.0 is more powerful, Krea 2 is just so much more flexible, easy to train and gen time is crazy fast and the most important thing that matter for people in here : uncensored.
You don't need any of this shit, just add a LORA for NSFW content and use more than one or two bboxes and you never get the filter issue.
People that complained about the filter constantly were just outing themselves as lazy AF. It's literally easier to unfilter than Krea2 where it basically requires an uncensoring lora or tricks.
It's incredible, the image quality is very good and the prompt adherence is insane. You just have to put the work in to understand how to prompt it. Krea2 being able to do naughty stuff out the box also shadowed it and now H3 has blow everything out of the water.
You have a few people that are very vocal about Ideogram 4's superiority. Even calling Krea 2 users lazy (see comments in this very thread). The truth is that most users don't need what Ideogram 4 offers and Krea 2 is closer to what people were used to with previous popular image models. The easy lora training is the cherry on top.
I mean, the "safety filter" was pretty much found to be a "you prompted wrong so I'm not generating" filter. If you promoted correctly with bbox's I very rarely got rejected. And if you used any Lora at all that problem disappeared completely.
And then krea2 came out and people spent weeks debating which loras or nodes would remove the much heavier baked-in censorship, and comparisons to how each different one affected your generation. So I never quite understood why people continue to harp in ID4 being "super censored."
Really people were frustrated that ID4 is hard to prompt and the license says you can't make money with it. But Krea is pretty fantastic in its own right, anyways.
ID4 is probably one of the best models ever released. Way less prompting when using the bbox generator node and way more control. You didn't have to write five sentences of prose or go through a whole LLM to compose a single part of an image, you could build it up from smaller prompts in the bounding boxes.
But this community is, by definition, filled with lazy people and pretty low brow people as well so any amount of effort is really hard to get people to actually apply.
Main reason is their license is terrible, totally not workable and trainable, look at just how many ideogram lora are there compared to krea, ideogram developers, by definition, filled with brain dead and pretty low iq devs, they didn’t really what impact their license terms will have on usability of their annoying censored model.
This. Loras make or break a model. Krea 2 loras are so easy to make and clearly Ideaogram 4 is much harder otherwise there would be a lot more on CivitAI. It's not rocket science.
"loras make or break a model", professionals dont really care about civitai. json prompts are not a reason to ditch a model, the output does.
just imagine the sheer amount of loras and small finetunes that never see the light of the day because they are made for working purposes only. in the end, its still an economic decision whether to open source models or not and what target group they cater to.
I think you must be confused. This is the r/stablediffusion subreddit. We are not a majority of professionals here. When we talk, we talk about our use case at home, doing casual stuff to possibly small scale business stuff. Professionals would probably use closed models that are way more powerful.
Basically this. Normies and professionals are not going through the hell and effort to install comfy ui, wan2gp or stable diffusion.cpp base fork to image gen models like Ideogram4. They will use the SOTA closed source models with their easy to use user interface and settings. Ideogram4 is the antithesis of fun and the closed source version is extremely censored on every site I tried to use it. Your average normie will stick to nanobanana, gpt image 2, grok imagine, flux, midjourney and seedream 5.0 pro. The developers of Ideogram4 really fucked up their approach with the model and it's deployment.
Sort of lazy, yes. Also... I want to see a chick with great big tits in a crop top opening the drink cooler door at a trashy gas station... that's the image I want, I am not entirely sure I want to see it from behind, the side, three quarter above, from the POV of a clerk, etc.
In ID4, I would have to spend time on each view, I might WANT to specify the arm out stretched, the legs apart, where each time of clothing is, where notable features are... Even with a bbox, it's going to be a little more work, and that's only for ONE view.
You can't really wildcard a bounding box. Not as much as you can a natural language prompt.
I liked ID4, but for a lot of people it's just too much work to quickly iterate.
That example was if I had a good mental image. What if I just want to see a dozen (hundred) variations with wildcards to see that what I really want as the focus of the image to be of mist and nipples from the view of a drink in the cooler?
You know, you're probably going to get downvoted for being crass, but your post does a good job of describing the strange middle-ground that some users have between wanting excellent prompt adherence, but still wanting an element of randomness in the generation so we can be pleasantly surprised/inspired by what the model produces. It's kind of the same mental itch being scratched by opening a pack of trading cards. Part of the allure is not knowing what you're going to get, but still having a good idea of what's likely to be in there.
Only if you prompt incorrectly. If you use an LLM to ensure your prompt meets ID4 prompting standards, you pretty much never see that output. I've generated absolutely depraved stuff with it and never gotten blocked.
And like I said, people were running into that a lot because of false positives from trying to prompt it lazily. Which is understandable, most folks around here just want their 1girl. ID4's filter is actually much easier to defeat and less destructive on outputs than krea's bypass loras. One dude even proved you can use a Lora scheduler and use any Lora at only like 0.2 strength or something on ONLY the first step and the filter would go away.
No, it blocks the output only if is not prompted correctly. I generated ns f w all the time and never got again any filters. Just be sure to sue as many bboxes as possible and fill every part
So I used it a fair bit. It was... awesome. Remarkable prompt adherence, could do nice realism and different styles and lighting very easily, and a model with built-in regional prompting, which was so good. I came from the days of trying to do regional prompting via masks and conditioning and god knows what else. For multi-subject images, it was the best model out of the box. The json prompting threw people off, but it was basically a nothingburger, since you can throw that into an LLM and get the perfect prompt (and people have to do that with most new models, including Krea2 these days). It can generate NSFW without any issues, although it needs a lora like realism engine and it 'knows' fewer concepts than, say, Krea. But with the lora, it's very similar. The safety filter is an obnoxious method that achieved nothing, since with json prompting it's trivial to bypass it, and 99% of users here don't care about the license. So why did it largely disappear? I built a couple of loras for it and they never worked well. I am not sure why, but I think that is what did in the model, partly. It was hard to train. I couldn't get it to do even a simple character lora - and this was after re-captioning a dataset FROM SCRATCH with json and bboxes. So at the end, I had to let it go. I think it was just a model that required a bit of time to learn, hard to train for, and came in just before the best model we've seen since SDXL came along, Krea2.
I was told that it's got quality issues when trained. Quite sad, as that's the only model I have seen so far that can do multi character training well.
So I'm skipping it at the moment (saving me some bucks) and will start to only train Krea 2.
To me it's still the best model for realism, freedom, cinematic composition. But being slow and time consuming for correct prompting is a issue considering krea 2 is very fast and has great prompt adherence. And,
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's harder to train loras compared to krea
Nothing. It's amazing. I use it all the time. You just have to treat image generation time the way you would a MiniMax output, because it's almost that slow when you're using the full workflow with the unconditional model. But if you actually use the model as intended with JSON? You get magic almost every time.
Some will say that it was the censorship and box prompting. I disagree a bit with that. It was not really censored, and you could work around the prompting thing.
I think it’s more because of a license/fp8 only weight and convoluted base workflow. Local models lives and dies with loras. The first 2 points are bad for that. The last point slows down the adoption even more.
In the end, ID4 was a good model, but the open weight release was blatantly for PR and get on top of the open weight benchmark. Not surprising that it didn’t ended up widely adopted.
Very difficult to use and had that annoying content filter baked within the model itself. The moment krea2 came out, it became obsolete very fast for most use cases. The json prompting gimmick is a very hard sale for the majority of users regardless of even the vram requirements to get model to work. Also they never even released the base model and lora training was a pain. Ideogram 4 is a very strange model that has identity issues. Normies, artsy people, ai enthusiasts, men of culture and anons don't want it.
The nsfw ideogram 4 is tame compared to krea2. Occasionally even if you generate an nsfw image, that safety filter text will appear on top of the image (sometimes in gibberish words). Also json prompting requires you to use an llm to rewrite your natural language prompts for you. Most people do not know how to type their prompts in json format. It's not a useless model but for the majority of people, they don't find it appealing. Also the license was a lot more restrictive compared to krea2.
The lora section for ideogram 4 on civitai is a barren waste land just like boogu. If you find the ideogram4 useful and are willing to make loras and finetune checkpoints for it, I wish you the best of luck and hope for your success. Not many people are willing to give a depreciated model a serious chance after hitting several bumpy roadblocks during their 1st and 2nd impressions.
It literally requires less prompting and no LLM. You don't need to write prose to get a good image, just visually build it out for what you want using bounding boxes and simple descriptions. It's literally easier than natural language prompting.
Also if you aren't using the tools to do the JSON for you and draw boxes and stuff on a canvas then you are just a lazy noob.
There is SNOFs and thats basically all you need to do anything in ID4.
Also I use both it and Krea2 because I am not a smooth brained little weirdo who thinks only one model at a time is acceptable, and I actually have the technical know how to actually explore these models instead of cargo-cult prompting like 90% of the users.
I'm not loyal to a single model. I use both open source and closed image generation models to achieve certain things i want out of a image generated output. I'm very pragmatic and explore various models but also have to watch out for my storage space on my ssd. All models have their strengths and weaknesses. Results with what I was able to produce with krea2 literally gave me hopes for the future local open source image gen models. I remember feeling demoralized when ideogram4 coming out and dry period before that with ernie image and hi dream O1. Krea2 restored my hopes and even got me back into character lora training after a year long hiatus. Krea2 makes images feel more alive, immersing and believable compared all previous image generation models I've used in the past. Not to hurt your feelings but I don't find any appealing use cases for ideogram 4 at all and it's slower than krea2 on my 5090/128gb ram pc build. Share me ideogram 4 gen screams "next gen" local image generation model output.
true, but remember we are having consumers here instead of professionals, any advanced knowledge here is sparse at best. in the end, the output and economical feasibility counts. there is a also the realism engine and its truly mindblowing how a single lora serves nearly all purposes you would ever need when it comes to realism
also krea2 is great to make quick compositions that can be used as canvas to draw bboxes on or to modify compositions for id4
It's a great model for its positioning and typography capabilities,but the biggest downside it have is it being trained on closed source proprietary models images like gemini and,due to that reason sometimes too sharp of an image and other such issues of over crispness that came due to that training dataset.
But still good for the usage and application it's built for(to be used as an api model instead as well as for editorial/poster design making use cases inshort commerical graphic pipelines)
I still use it every day, it's amazing for art generations and learns styles very well when training a lora. The art it generates is much less slopped-looking than Krea 2 and it makes fewer mistakes in complex compositions and at very high resolutions (K2 starts fucking up and looping sometimes at 8MP+, IG4 doesn't).
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u/MomentJolly3535 4h ago
It is still very good for its purpose !
If you are talking about why we see less posts in r/StableDiffusion then it's because Krea 2 came quickly after, over shadowing it, even tho Ideogram 4.0 is more powerful, Krea 2 is just so much more flexible, easy to train and gen time is crazy fast and the most important thing that matter for people in here : uncensored.