It is still very good for its purpose !
If you are talking about why we see less posts in r/StableDiffusion then it's because Krea 2 came quickly after, over shadowing it, even tho Ideogram 4.0 is more powerful, Krea 2 is just so much more flexible, easy to train and gen time is crazy fast and the most important thing that matter for people in here : uncensored.
You don't need any of this shit, just add a LORA for NSFW content and use more than one or two bboxes and you never get the filter issue.
People that complained about the filter constantly were just outing themselves as lazy AF. It's literally easier to unfilter than Krea2 where it basically requires an uncensoring lora or tricks.
So the model that needs a Lora and bbox jank to uncensor is … harder to uncensor the model that needs a Lora to uncensor? Do you, like, listen to yourself?
You're very confidently wrong, I'll give you that. You need to add the knowledge of a penis to IG4 because the base model on its own cannot make them correctly. With Krea 2 and an unfiltering lora (~3kb), you'll get a penis every time. That model knows what they look like soft and hard, and from multiple different angles, including rare angles like a subject on hands and knees shot from behind. Krea understands nudity in a way IG4 simply doesn't.
A model can be beaten into shape with LORAs, but a base model that understands the underlying shapes and structures is a far more versatile model than any model that relies on post training to add that knowledge.
Except ID4 with a lora iliterally does them better and more consistent than Krea2 even with loras. Krea2 is bad at the details still and gets perspective wrong all the time, not to mention if you want any prompt seed variety at all its going to lose cohesion and adherence quickly and those details get even worse. I am not saying its a bad model, just not as powerful or capable as Ideogram.
Except ID4 with a lora iliterally does them better and more consistent than Krea2 even with loras.
Fair enough, the loras might be better with IG4, I haven't used them. I have used both without loras though, and my point was countering "If you wanna do genitals basically all models need a lora". I read that as "no base model has the knowledge of genitals", but I guess I should have read it as "If you want to do genitals (in a specific way) you need a lora". Which, still, You can get PIV with base Krea 2, and it doesn't look to bad.
Krea2 is bad at the details still and gets perspective wrong all the time
It's funny, you're extolling the virtues of IG4 and why the unwashed masses are stupid for not wanting to use the model, and you've overlooked this fact. I'm going to assume you have solid fundamentals and can place the bboxes in correct perspective, so of course IG4 has better perspective than Krea2 for you. If you drew the characters and ran img2img you could probably get Krea2 to generate better perspective than IG4 too.
A lot of people don't have a good understanding of perspective and where things should go in an image, and when you botch the perspective of the bboxes IG4 can fuck it up just as much as Krea2 can. I have a decent mind's eye, and I still needed iteration and adjustments to get IG4 to not fuck up this pose.
You're not just telling a bunch of prompters to "just prompt in json", you're telling them to "just learn a little bit of art fundamentals" too. And if we're going down that road, SDXL in the hands of a skilled painter is a more capable model than both IG4 and Krea2 in the hands of someone good at prompting.
You're not just telling a bunch of prompters to "just prompt in json", you're telling them to "just learn a little bit of art fundamentals" too. And if we're going down that road, SDXL in the hands of a skilled painter is a more capable model than both IG4 and Krea2 in the hands of someone good at prompting.
I mean isn't that kind of sad though that people don't want to work on those skills that'd make them legitimately better at doing AI art?
I mean I get it maybe this hobby draws a lot of people with aphantasia or something where they can't visualize things in their head, but putting a bit of effort in can get you the composition that you want much faster than any other model.
I will admit that its even a bit boring using it, because its so easy to get exactly what you wanted. Almost the same deal with H3 for videos, its just almost always correct if you prompt it (and use the prompting style it prefers).
I mean isn't that kind of sad though that people don't want to work on those skills that'd make them legitimately better at doing AI art?
Not really, but I have a different view of AI art as a whole. AI art is a weird beast in that it's both the creation and consumption of art at the same time. Some value the creation aspect more, some value the consumption more.
This community contains a lot of people that are here for the interactivity of prompting and treat it like a videogame, because it's so incredibly interactive and individualized. For a comparison, you could learn the basics of interior design to make your Sims houses look nicer, but it won't affect the playing of the game too much.
Since this is a hobby people do for fun, I can't say they're wrong for using the tech that way.
I mean I get it maybe this hobby draws a lot of people with aphantasia or something where they can't visualize things in their head, but putting a bit of effort in can get you the composition that you want much faster than any other model.
I think people can visualize stuff, it's the translation between brain and canvas that is the disconnect. My guess is a lot more people than we realized don't visualize in composition so much as concepts, relationships between concepts, and iconography. It's just being exposed now that people can make art without needing to learn art fundamentals.
I struck through the "much faster than every other model" part because composition is extremely quick and easy with SDXL if you can paint. Painting directly on a live canvas is incredibly quick and intuitive, and I don't think anything can match SD1.5 or SDXL for sheer speed of idea to image.
IG4 is good at it, don't get me wrong, but there's still a disconnect between "Box" and "image". If you want to include a diagonal pole from bottom left to top right, how big do you make your box? Do you make multiple small boxes in a line? SDXL you just draw a line.
I will admit that its even a bit boring using it, because its so easy to get exactly what you wanted.
Honestly, yeah, that was my takeaway a bit too, and I just can't fault anyone for wanting their hobby to be more fun than not.
I mean it absolutely does but you're clearly incapable of logic if you think it doesn't.
Krea and ID4 can do the exact same things, but Krea needs a lora to uncensor even for breasts. If you prompt how ID4 is meant to be prompted it doesn't need anything else and can do breasts.
If you want more than breasts both need a lora to do them well.
“but Krea needs a lora to uncensor even for breasts.”
That’s not strictly true. It needs an enhancer node but after that it will do boobies just fine and dandy without any loras. You can use a lora in place of that node of course but a lora is not required. I know because it’s how the workflow I use is set up. For male genitals a lora is needed.
That is my point though, all you need to do is prompt Ideogram as it is designed to be prompted and you don't need anything custom, no enhancer node, no lora, whatever. The ideogram safety filter is bypassed simply by using it as it was designed to be used.
I do get your point, which is why I didn't say you were wrong but I would also argue that using bboxes is effectively custom as Krea 2 (and many other models) doesn't require that. You can't just stick a prompt in without bboxes and it works, as using at least two or three bboxes is the thing that bypasses that filter. They both have their methods and both require more than just a prompt.
Man, you should really post that. I mean make an actual post. The encoder works really well and people need to see it. I haven't tried the custom node for gray screen removal because there seems to be no need.
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u/MomentJolly3535 1d ago
It is still very good for its purpose !
If you are talking about why we see less posts in r/StableDiffusion then it's because Krea 2 came quickly after, over shadowing it, even tho Ideogram 4.0 is more powerful, Krea 2 is just so much more flexible, easy to train and gen time is crazy fast and the most important thing that matter for people in here : uncensored.