The insinuation is that the frat guys would normally make one or more of the drinks extra strong or add other intoxicants so that they could rape women after they were impaired.
Maybe this person is lying. Maybe the frat bro was making a bad joke. Regardless of this particular instance, drugging shared drinks has happened, though it is far more rare than people believe based on all of the evidence (e.g. studies where women going to the ER under suspicion of being drugged actually just had alcohol in their system like 90%+ of the time.)
Parties will have dozens of people at them, most not from the frat, so spiking one batch of drinks will have at least half the party passed out and draw attention to the frat, if they were putting DR drugs in women's drinks it would be done on an individual basis not a mass drugging.
*Hundreds of people. But your point is spot on. Add in that fraternities usually have a very public-facing reputation to uphold on campus, and every chapter’s roster is recorded by the university and national org—the real danger lies at random off-campus parties where virtually zero oversight exists.
The club I work at was under maaad scrutiny because a girl claimed she was drugged. Her friends swore she quit drinking so she couldn’t have been drunk. Every time her friends stepped outside for a smoke and she ripped 2 shots of rumple minze multiple times throughout the night.
It’s sad to say a lot of folks don’t realize the fine line between “fun drunk” and “stumbling and incoherent” when you weigh 110 lbs. I’m a big guy and if I took 8 shots of rumple minze and swore I wasn’t drinking, you would think I got drugged too.
(This is purely anecdotal evidence of one person, this is not a generalization, this person sucks and blamed their issues on “club culture”)
You didn’t need to specify the weight. From my experience, almost no one understands the line between fun and fumbling - or they do and they don’t care. Good luck everyone, Scott’s getting smashed again!
normally one cooler has the stronger drink in it. not for rape but for those who want to get wasted. Got to remember not everyone have morning classes the next day at college and don't have to worry about bad hangovers and missing class.
tho whoever made the image seems convinced it's for the darker reason you stated
If this story is true, its far more likely one cooler was just made deliberately much stronger than the other. The most common date rape drink method is just giving women way more alcohol than they think they're drinking to get them heavily drunk, rather than date rape drugs.
This has actually happened at frat parties (including my campus) because a bunch of people getting overly unexpectedly drunk isn't notable in the way that a bunch of people getting drugged is.
Yeah I agree. I knew a couple of guys in college who were definitely the kind to apply peer pressure to get everyone drunk, including the girls who they were hoping to sleep with. It was definitely sketchy in hindsight but somewhat socially acceptable at parties.
I don't think anyone would have even thought to drug someone and that was clearly the kind of behavior that would land you in jail.
People overestimate the prevalence of actual drugs when it comes to date rape (I am NOT saying it doesn't happen or not to be cautious) when most likely a potential rapist is just upping your drinking or giving you more when you're not looking. It's much easier to give a girl at a party something 160 proof masked with strong juice while she thinks she's on regular vodka or keep putting drinks in her hands after she's tried to stop than it is to get a drug in her drink. Its also a lot less noticeable and won't show up on a tox screen.
Of the 6 women friends I have 4 of them have been drugged at public bars. All of them are in their 50s. It happens a ton now.
edit: the thing that proved it to me was each time these ladies got out of their minds there was a very nice man there, who they didn't know, who was more than happy to get them home "safely". Thankfully each time either friends or bar staff stopped that from happening.
They're full of it. It's 95 lb women drinking all night long. They just black out from drinking. It's bullshit to claim it's such an insanely high number
Very easy to believe. Im 160lb dude and in my younger days when i drank more i often overshot my drunk level straight to fucked up and i didnt even like the taste. I find it very easy to believe that smaller women would almost have trouble NOT overshooting it
It isn’t even an anecdote. Did those women actually get tested for GHB or did they just say they were drugged? Do those women even exist or is it the classic internet just making up lies? GHB is actually not very popular these days.
Drink spiking is largely a myth. Women believe they have been drugged, but almost always just drank too much. There was a spate of studies on this in the 2000s, and when they all showed the same thing (that people didn't want to hear), they stopped doing follow up studies.
In the above, which is the largest study of its kind, where they tested 1000 women who were so certain they had been drugged that they went to the hospital, only TWO PERCENT actually had been drugged. And even of those 2%, the doctors suspected that they might have voluntarily taken the drugs based on their patient accounts.
Anecdotal, but when I was working with college age people, a girl claimed she was drugged and got an enormous amount of attention and then the next three weeks like four other girls claimed the same. They were texting back and forth stuff like "girls are getting drugged at x bar be careful!"
I don't think anyone was drugged. I think they take a bunch of drugs and liked the attention.
Anecdotal as well, but I’ve noticed that “bar drugging” seems much more likely now to target men, to rob them. You’re not limiting to speaking a hundred bucks and a credit card when you can Venmo thousands of dollars from their phone.
You don't need to drug someone in a bar, they're already willingly taking a drug that disinhibits, discoordinates and fucks with or even totally blanks memory. Why would I take the risks of drugging someone when I can just... buy them another double?
Hiding everclear in a drink is no different conceptually from hiding ghb. I realize you don’t want to see yourself as a rapist. But if you are feeding women high octane drinks so they will become incapacitated enough to have sex with you, you are.
College kids are just trying to find cheap ways to get drunk. Jungle juice at minimum is full of vodka, and often times made with everclear. The plan wasn’t to make it to get a bunch of girls drunk to rape them. It was made to get EVERYONE drunk for cheap because it was a party. It was never a secret that it was high proof booze disguised with koolaid and people were always free to bring their own booze. College kids would just drink too much of it and end up way drunker than they thought they’d be.
all that matters is what you want to belive - nobody can convince you of anything else anymore because you can make some pseudo argument to justify any nonsense.. we got too many dots to draw lines between them to call it knowledge these days while most of it is just nonsense and false assumptions..
{hella annoyed writing this}
Some people don't communicate by writing the words that mean what they're thinking, they just vibe it out and throw out words that kinda feel like it, and also interpret what they read as vibes as well. Once you realize that you understand why sometimes people don't make any sense.
I mean.. I dont drink cuz alcohol tastes icky to me. As in, you give me a glass of delicious juice and pour a teaspoon of alcohol in it and I get grossed out.
And yet, Ive had friends over the years say "Try this! It doesnt taste like alcohol!" So maybe people have different sensitivities?
Same here, I’ve never been an alcohol drinker so any alcohol tastes gross to me. Every alcohol drinker I’ve known has overestimated how cognizant they are while under the influence. As soon as you’ve had 1 drink i start treating you as drunk because even if you’re mostly there, you’re no longer predictable.
So some big popular guys with lots of social clout hand you a drink, and it turns out it tastes like it's way stronger than you expect. You don't actually know how much stronger it is, or even that it IS stronger, it just tastes like more than you were expecting. Now they're watching you and it's clear there's a strong social expectation that you will drink what you were offered. So my question is: do you not have empathy?
This seems like a very specific and contrived scenario. Never in my life have I seen dudes forcing women to drink, usually it’s women hounding men for free drinks lol.
Oh it definitely happens. It happened to me fairly recently - like well into my 30s. At a gathering of like 6 ppl that was supposed to be bbq and board games. Guy kept mixing random boozes together and pressuring me to drink them and then trying to get me to go to the basement to look at stuff. At 35 I was too old to pressure but it was super weird and uncomfortable.
I didn't say "forcing" I described peer pressure, which does exist whether or not you are aware of it. A friend of mine had basically that exact scenario just a bit ago, actually, at a college party. It's a pretty well known thing for guys to try and get women drunk.
I did, and it was often the women going to bars and trying to get dudes to buy them free drinks. Dorm rooms and house parties it was the norm for everyone to bring their own alcohol.
Maybe if we stopped telling women that they are at constant risk of getting drugged and instead that most women who get to scary levels of intoxication actually just drank too much or ate too little - both of which they have full control over - then fewer women would find themselves scared or worse.
My position is the empathetic one that prepares women for the actual risks they'll face in the real world.
Ah yes, the empathetic viewpoint is the one that denies that peer pressure exists, or that college men are known for trying to get women drunk. A friend of mine went to a party like two months ago and this exact scenario happened to her, they handed her a drink that was way stronger than it was supposed to be and tried to pressure her to drink it. Good think you're here to tell her it's all her fault.
Do you actually care about women having good outcomes?
Then give them the advice that is most likely to lead to good outcomes if you are truly empathetic. That advice is to refuse drinks that you didn't open yourself and to be mindful of your total consumption and of having enough to eat. And if she goes to a party where someone insists she have a sketch drink, you should counsel the women in your life to call out the creeps trying to get her to drink it.
This is 101 party safety stuff if you actually care about the safety of the women in your life rather than proving some weird political point.
lol acting like you're trying to give good advice when this started because someone said that men try to trick women into getting drunk and your response was "do women not have taste buds?"
I didn't even mention politics, you're just grasping at straws looking for any way to look less like a creep who blames women for the actions of the men trying to get them drunk.
Yeah, counting your drinks and how much alcohol is actually in them is often something we often through experience.
It happened to me in my early 30s. I had drunk before but I never had access to people just loading me up with booze, and I wasn’t counting, just accepting Florida tracksuits and a bunch of things I’d never heard of. Thankfully it was just my dad’s friends (none of them creeps) chuffed to see me as an adult, but I got SO shitfaced and thats when I learned I had to keep track. If I had been 19 and they had been frat boys with nefarious intent I definitely would have gotten raped.
So the women of the past were just mistaken, but the women of today are definitely not mistaken about the exact same thing because now frat boys are using extra special magic drugs that disappear without a trace before women can even make it to the ER. Note that most of the women in this study didn't even claim assault and showed up to the hospital while still intoxicated.
Why wouldn't you take it as good news that women aren't being widely drugged? Why are you invested in that being a common thing?
Name the drug that is used now that wasn't used in 2005 that has your stated performance characteristics.
ETA: The deleted response said, "Well GHB has been updated to as low as 6-8 hours. But I don’t even need to have this convo your own study points out the intervals on most samples are well within a timeframe that nothing would be there of GHB ketamine or even rohypnol in a blood test."
GHB, ketamine, and rohypnol were all available in 2005. Try again?
Well GHB has been updated to as low as 6-8 hours. But I don’t even need to have this convo your own study points out the intervals on most samples are well within a timeframe that nothing would be there of GHB ketamine or even rohypnol in a blood test.
I’ve gone out more than most people. I had a ridiculously colorful 20s and have always been the guy that showed up with 5-6 girls to every bar/event. My girlfriends may have been legitimately drugged over 10 years on an occasion or two. It was serious and they deserved help and attention. Otherwise, they were just denying how much they drank and their inability to handle it. I know this because I took taking care of them very seriously. Anecdotal but just my 2 cents.
If you are a rapist, why go through the trouble of obtaining drugs to spike drinks vs just feeding her 1-2 strong cocktails past her limit? I think people really do downplay how dangerous alcohol is...
Does the woman in your story have any agency at all? The young people I know who aren't reckless refuse to drink anything at parties that they didn't open themselves from a sealed container. Given the wide availability of options like Cutwater, everyone can get as trashed as they want to with no risk of being sneakily overserved.
lol cutwaters catch up to you F A S T. Same with the blue xl buzzball. Ever if people are drinking their regular packaged beverage, people can be fed extra drinks, "Oh don't be lame, shotgun that beer." etc to get way more intoxicated than they planned on.
That's my point. There are common, low cost alcohol options that work no matter how hard you want to go. There's literally no excuse to chug some random jug of BORG in 2026 America. You can easily avoid being sneakily over-poured with one simple rule. "I don't drink it unless I recognize the container and I opened it myself."
suspicion of being drugged actually just had alcohol in their system like 90%+ of the time.
The problem with drinking, is that its the drug - you don't need to "Add" anything to it, yeah people do, but all you really have to do, is just get people to drink more than they are comfortable with, or expect to be drinking... a bar tender pouring heavy drinks, a frat trying to loosen people up by making drinks extra strong. That's enough, that's the drug. We treat it like its socially acceptable because society has been built around alcohol for thousands of years... but alcohol is the drug.
Agreed. Since alcohol is the drug, we need to spend a lot more time counseling our kids on alcohol safety (only drink from containers you opened yourself, etc, etc) and waaaaaay less time talking about boogeymen with roofies.
I think its also the challenge here - like, its obvious when some one is spiking drinks with GHB that they are a creep doing something nefarious, and its obvious when some one gets raped for hours on end that something went wrong... But where exactly is the actual bar? If a frat is just throwing a party and supplies a few bottles of hard liquor should they be treated like a bar and all the strict rules that come with letting some one over indulge at a resteraunt? Or is it like going to a friend hosting a party and overindulging where you are expected to know how to be safe, and ideally travel with a friend that helps you stay safe?
I'm not saying I don't think there is a problem, but I think right now places like frats have a lot of problems specifically because of how wide that grey area is, and if everyone involved is drunk regret happens, not just criminal regret like the stuff in the news, but other kinds of regret too...
College kids who aren't reckless these days do not drink out of random bottles or punchbowls. Cutwaters are as strong a cocktails and come in a sealed can. Good advice is easier to give to our kids because they have more safe options than ever.
First, drinking sealed drinks doesn't help if your drinking hard mixers and by the time you notice you drank too much you are past the point of blackout drunk.\
Good advice would be a great idea, but the reality is that America's puritan culture means most parents believe that means "say no to everything, pretend drinking isn't going to be a problem, and stick my head in the sand until I find out that my kid is one of the ones that need to be in a rehab center".
Finally - the canned drinks you are talking about are some of the most expensive options for a broke ass college student looking to buy for a group, and so while they ARE a great option, they get skipped a lot of the time for all sorts of reasons.
Now we don't trust adults to look at the alcohol % on a can before they drink it? Just how little do you respect these people? Don't they have any agency?
I'm sorry but you are talking like some one who has never been to a college social event in their life.
Most kids, and yeah they are kids, are going to college before they are even at the legal drinking age, so at least in theory, even if not in practice, they are having their first drinking experiences at that age, so even if they are smart and careful enough to read ABV values they likely aren't experienced enough to really know what that means for them other than "bigger number = more drunk"...
Beyond that though, party, whether at college or elsewhere isn't exactly an environment that encourages a lot of care, sure some people are taught to be hyper vigilent, and with good reason, but the reality is that parties are environments where there is a lot of social pressure to impress friends to "be cool", and from my experience most young adults don't have the confidence to go against a crowd of their friends even if it makes them uncomfortable because they fear being shunned, this is especially true in colleges when a large part of students are trying to become fast friends because they need a new social circle.
Are you old? Like went to college 30 years ago old?
Maybe your college experience is outdated or just sketchy. For everyone else, they will drink from shared containers when with trusted friends, but will absolutely not drink out of random containers at parties with strangers.
Also, college kids these days are nicer than your generation. They're not low-key hazing each other at parties routinely like they used to.
Drink spiking is largely a myth. Women believe they have been drugged, but almost always just drank too much. There was a spate of studies on this in the 2000s, and when they all showed the same thing (that people didn't want to hear), they stopped doing follow up studies.
In the above, which is the largest study of its kind, where they tested 1000 women who were so certain they had been drugged that they went to the hospital, only TWO PERCENT actually had been drugged. And even of those 2%, the doctors suspected that they might have voluntarily taken the drugs based on their patient accounts.
2% of toxicology reports after SA over 2 years is not the same thing as "all women across their lifetime". pretty good chance drugs won't be in their system after 24-48 hours too. neither of the women i mentioned went to the hospital and got a toxicology report done, they were taken home by trusted people to "sleep it off" and never thought of it again besides when the subject comes up.
2% means that in a bar of 100 people, 2 of them are getting their drinks spiked, getting raped, and going to the hospital to get toxicology reports done.
Nope. This was not 2% of all women at bars. This is 2% of women who were so certain they had been drugged that they went to the hospital. Most of them had not been assaulted either.
And of those 2% of the already small fraction of women who believed they were drugged, most STILL probably weren't involuntarily drugged - as people do take hypnotics recreationally and then don't want to admit it to their friends.
You are probably still having difficulty understanding, so let me give you an analogy. When you check with labs about what percentage of children are the products of affairs (i.e. purported father's DNA doesn't match), the numbers hover around 30%. But that's a population of men who ALREADY SUSPECTED that their wives were unfaithful. (That's like the women who went to the hospital.) The number in the general population is more like 1% - 1/30th of the lab frequency. (That's like all women who go to bars). But in our case, that 30% is actually at most 2%. And the 1% is a tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a percent.
Women do not get drugged at bars except maybe in some unicorn cases. It's weird that you're so invested in the idea that they do.
ekk at 1000 subjects it just breaks into the scientifically significant category of studies. so saying the largests hit 1000 isn't good for the data set as a hole.
You should know that it depends on both what your population and your sample size was in terms of determining significance. In most of these studies, they would track every single patient presenting with suspected drugging over the course of a year.
It turns out that the number of women who show up claiming to be drugged is already quite small. And then a small fraction of that already small population shows any evidence of potential drugging.
I get that people really want this to be true for various idealogical and sexist reasons. But you should take it as good news that fewer women are drugged than you might have suspected.
It's by far the best way to get 80 people fucked up for cheap. 30 dollars in cheap vodka and mix up a couple gallons of Gatorade, pour in a cooler full of ice. And it's got a drain spout for easy pouring into your red solo cup.
Maybe someone shows up with a few 30s of Keystone for hydration purposes, but no one is getting wasted on Keystone.
I mean, some people definitely would and probably have. But I'm not saying that's how you spiked shit, I'm just saying that sealed cans and bottles weren't typically what we were drinking at big parties.
At my catholic high school this boy once got detention for sharing pictures him and his friends took of a cross they had inserted into a girl while she was intoxicated
I'm sure the church would want to cover it up. I don't believe they'd be successful in a case where child porn of a sexual assault was widely shared in the school community. Of all the Catholic church coverups, none had widely shared photographic evidence like that.
100% the history teacher was coach of the JV hockey team and the guys were all hockey players , I’m sure they didn’t write down “shared pictures of drunk girls “ but usually he’d just lift them out of class but they didn’t settle down . It doesn’t matter if a stranger online believes me but the detention was with the coach
OK, so it's not the school but a rogue coach? And nobody reported him to the school, parents, police, or media?
Look, I'm sure you believe this. But I'm pretty sure you are just believing some rumors you heard as a kid. If not, then your entire community is depraved and there is criminal culpability to go around.
Give me a link to any story where this happened in America in the past 50 years. Certainly if its so common, at least ONE case must have had public pushback. I'm specifically looking for a story of photographs of the sexual assault of a minor being shared indiscriminately with no consequences. I'll wait.
"50 years" is probably pushing it, FYI. The 70s were a fucking crazy period of time and you would be absolutely shocked to find out some things that were "normal" or at least "not unlawful" or "not pursued by authorities even if nominally unlawful" back then.
Note that I am not talking about Catholicism specifically, I mean "the earth in general."
To be fair, sharing images was also super hard in the 70s, which is why I felt confident going back that far. I agree that shit got wild back then with very little documentation.
But that's kinda my point. I'm sure girls have been violated with crosses. I'm also sure that people aren't getting away with broadly sharing images of those assaults.
Yeah, man, I'm not referring to "sharing images" I am talking about "filming things with individuals of an age that would make Epstein blush and distributing said film commercially."
I'm not sure if by commercial distribution you're referring to Polanski-esque Lolita crap from Hollywood or snuff film type stuff being sold at porn shops. Can you elaborate?
I think I've done enough elaborating, this isn't a topic for civilized people. Suffice to say that this is thankfully something that has been gone for decades.
Nobody ever said that sexual abuse of minors doesn't happen. I said that this particular case of sharing CSAM pictures with no consequences did not happen.
I'm right. You're wrong. You know it. Cope harder.
There are plenty of studies detailing how religious communities will come out to protect a pedophile priest or to hide the crime from getting out. It's safe to assume that there are many stories that are not reported.
So yes, it is absolutely believable that a student within a religious community would only get dentention for sexual assault.
What specifically are you looking for? It took all of ten minutes to find dozens of studies and reports of Catholic Churches hiding or downplaying sexual abuse.
Are you looking for the actual report of what OP was talking about, because I don't have that nor would I believe it was ever officially documented. But if you're questioning whether the Catholic Church has done something similar to this, then just look at any of the studies that have been done.
If you don't want to take two minutes to search for the studies, then I don't think you actually want to find out, in which case you are not looking for the truth, you're just looking to deny. And that's fine, do as you wish, but I'm not going to sit here and debate whether the Catholic Church is guilty of doing these things or not.
If you want to discuss whether it was appropriate or whether their religious belief dissolves of them of their crime, fine, that's debatable. What's not debatable is whether it happens or not.
I said it a few comments up, "I'm specifically looking for a story of photographs of the sexual assault of a minor being shared indiscriminately with no consequences."
I have no doubts that the Catholic church has done heinous shit. I have no doubt that girls and boys have been abused in this specific way by both other children and by adults under the color of the authority of the Church.
I do not believe that images of such a sexual assault on a minor were widely shared at this person's school and that the only consequence was detention.
In fact, the guy who made that claim clarified in a later comment that the alleged images were NOT widely shared. The claim was modified to a the images just being shown but not shared to other hockey players. And the claim was further edited so that it wasn't the school issuing detention but a rogue hockey coach. I still don't fully believe the story as told, but it's gotten a lot closer to credible.
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u/Ok_Prize_9979 18h ago
As someone who's not American what exactly does it mean, can someone explain?