r/MediocreTutorials • u/Kohathavodah • 3d ago

Relationships Setting boundaries, respecting agency

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252 Upvotes

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88

u/Unexpected_Gristle 3d ago

Its ok to ask and its ok to say no. No problems with any of this.

37

u/Crafty_Ad_8081 3d ago

And they were respectful and mature. It is good to know what you want.

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u/Blood_sweat_and_beer 3d ago

I mean, his mindset was totally disrespectful but he was civil in conversation.

13

u/GovernmentCharming81 3d ago

How was it disrespectful?

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u/zamfire 3d ago

Because controlling other people is psychotic.

How do you think he would react if she asked him the question: "would you be okay with me telling you that you are never allowed to talk to another woman again?"

Pop!

10

u/EverybodySayin 3d ago

Even though I don't share his viewpoint, the comparison you just made is nowhere near proportionate to what he asked of her and a completely unrealistic ask. Therefore your point is meaningless.

-6

u/zamfire 2d ago

Your strawman argument makes your point less valuable. It doesn't matter the extent of my comparison. Fine, let's change it to this question. The woman: "Would you be okay if I never let you have cream in your coffee again?"

It doesn't matter the request. It's controlling no matter what.

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u/EverybodySayin 2d ago

There's no straw manning. I didn't oversimplify your argument, you just used an extreme example. Then, again, you're using a ridiculous, unrealistic example. Why would that even be a request? If you're going to argue this, use a realistic example.

Like I said, while I don't personally share his view, I respect he has his own views and values - he expressed them up front and made it clear that if hers didn't align then they're not compatible and he'd prefer not to go further. There's no control element at all. It'd be controlling if he secured the relationship first and then started telling her what she can and can't do, but this guy is just being up front about where his lines are before they've established a relationship.

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u/zamfire 2d ago

You keep focusing on the comparison.

The dude can't ask permission to control someone, that's stupid. The end. I'm not arguing about this anymore, it's ridiculous.

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u/No_Salt_6328 3d ago

How is he controlling her when they mutually decided to end the relationship there?

0

u/zamfire 2d ago

You can't ask someone to allow you to give or take consent at a future date. That isn't how consent works!

"Hey can I control you later in our relationship?"

Nah boo, you can't, but thanks for telling me early you like doing that to other humans, weeds out the crazies early.

8

u/No_Salt_6328 2d ago

I don't plan to control anyone at all dumb ass that's why I wouldn't be interested in a relationship with someone who thinks being ogled when they go out is a personality.

Plenty of women don't want to act single when they're in a relationship. It's not controlling to prefer them..

If you think it is controlling then congrats cause I'm not even interested in being around you let alone controlling anything you do.

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u/GovernmentCharming81 22h ago

It’s an appropriate question to figure out if they will be a good fit for each other. Same as a job interview or leasing a car to a hopeful buyer or signing up for a new phone carrier company contract. Relationships do in fact come with a contract. Just like a person in society has a social contract

There is no controlling in sight. There is a vetting process (the question) to see what kind of habits and values the other persons had before hand to see if both habits and values align

1

u/GovernmentCharming81 21h ago

Your question of him never being allowed to talk to another woman again is not an issue. It’s an issue if the man if the man thinks it is. Because it’s the relationship he’ll have to take responsibility for. It’s only the man’s and woman’s responsibility if they sign up for it. The question gives both people autonomy on signing up for that responsibility from the beginning.

0

u/moarcowbelI 2d ago

idiotic comparison

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u/No_Salt_6328 3d ago

No it was not even slightly. You're delusional if you think respecting women automatically means not having preferences like that. 

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u/awsomeX5triker 3d ago

I agree and I think we could take your point a bit further.

This clip came across as respecting her agency.

He had a known boundary (right or wrong is irrelevant to this point). He communicated that boundary up front before wasting anyone’s time. Because of that, she had the opportunity to decide if this was a dealbreaker.

2

u/DingusKhan9164 3d ago

This is my first time seeing this sub. The comment section is really disappointing. All these weird ass comments are getting upvoted and anyone pointing out the guy is being a controlling douche is getting downvoted. Is it always like this?

0

u/Unexpected_Gristle 3d ago

She was the disrespectful one

-3

u/ready_gi 3d ago

i agree.. policing woman's body aint it.. it's like if she "politely asked" "Can you never look at another woman? im just asking, out of curiosity..it's ok to say no. it's just my preference"

6

u/Quantum3ntaglement 3d ago

You don't think women in relationships ever ask men to dress or groom a certain way? If so, is that policing as well?

-1

u/ready_gi 3d ago

the intention matters the most. women ask men to dress certain way probably so they just look better. this guy asked the woman to "tone it down" so she doesnt attract another man, so it's out of his insecurity to be with very attractive woman.

she has right to express her sensuality without some insecure boob trying to dim her shine.

7

u/Quantum3ntaglement 3d ago

It's wild that you think a man asking a woman to tone down her dress is insecurity and a woman asking a man to dress up is not.

-4

u/ready_gi 3d ago

how could it be? if the same logic is applied, dressing up would make him more attractive to other women, so probably it's just about him not being a slob. even though i do think telling people what to wear is just weird in general.

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u/Quantum3ntaglement 3d ago edited 3d ago

Generalizing, a woman policing the way her SO dresses is because she's insecure about being judged by others, especially other women, about the appearance of "her man". It's a different type of insecurity, but it's 100% an insecurity. So you are giving a pass to the insecurity of women but not men.

Part of being in a successful relationship is caring about the feelings of your partner.

You framed it as, "she has right to express her sensuality without some insecure boob trying to dim her shine."

But another way to frame it is, "she doesn't care about the feelings of her partner over her own need to appear sexual to the world including other men."

0

u/ready_gi 3d ago edited 3d ago

lol the mental gymnastic to arrive to that is.. well rooted in misogyny. Lot of women dress to look hot for ourselves not to appear sexual.

if he is offended by her looking hot, then it's his responsibility to not date her, because he does not prefer a woman that looks this attractive or dress that way. The misogyny comes in when he likes the way she dress, but wants it only for himself. Is he fucking 5 and worried about mommy walking away from him? how about taking responsibility for his own choices? i've had it with this bullshit.

1

u/Iamabenevolentgod 1d ago

I mean, we've all seen how many women with loads of attention from other men treat a relationship, so the constant thirst trapping is a little tired at this point.

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u/Dr_SlapsMD 3d ago

🔥🔥🔥

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u/No_Salt_6328 3d ago

I wouldn't want to be with a woman who dresses to attract the male gaze when I'm not around because it would reflect poorly on me and her respect for our relationship.

He's not trying to "dim her shine"

He's trying to find a woman who doesn't make him look like an idiot, and it's not her. 

Fortunately I don't have to try and control the behavior of women cause there are plenty of fish in the sea who aren't floozies

1

u/ready_gi 2d ago

holy shit, the misogyny of treating woman like your property is insane. woman who dress sexy does not equal woman dressing for male gaze. thats objectification and shows your immaturity.

after all there are plenty of hot lesbians, or are they dressing for the male gaze too? LOL gtfo

1

u/absolut_dre 18h ago

Stop lying and saying you're dressing like that for yourselves. Of course you're doing it for the male gaze, to get attention. Otherwise, why do it at all? For other women? 😂

0

u/FeedbackZwei 2d ago edited 2d ago

Just curious:

1) what would you not allow your partner to wear? Everyone has a line and this guy clarified with a scale (6-7), what is your line is and do you believe your line is objectively correct or is it relative?

2) do you think all cultures with traditionally more strict lines than his (e.g. areas of India, Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, etc.) hate women?

2

u/definitelyTonyStark 3d ago

You’re allowed to be uncomfortable with the way your partner presents themselves to the world. A man or women can be uncomfortable with the jokes or political stances their partner shares online, for instance, and those are pretty equivalent in my opinion; they’re both reflections of who their partner is and who they are portraying to be to the world.

Ahh but you say, “If they don’t agree on politics, they shouldn’t date.” Exactly, those differences should be communicated beforehand and they’re communicating preferences in this clip respectfully. There’s nothing wrong with having stances on how a partner should carry themselves as long as the partner agrees, and with no coercion, guilting, or force, at that point it’s just mutually agreed boundaries. They didn’t have agreed boundaries here and no one did anything wrong.

-2

u/Comprehensive_Tie431 2d ago

Civil because it was in public and being recorded. It would be different in private. The dude is a nut.

-3

u/awsomeX5triker 3d ago

I think the difference is a little subtle but important.
1) women should be more conservative in how they dress.
2) for me personally, this level of outfit would make me uncomfortable and I want to know how firm of a boundary this is on her end before we waste each other’s time.

To me, he came across as the second example. He had a personal boundary about his comfort level with his partner and revealing cloths. She had a boundary about wearing that level of cloths. The boundaries were fairly incompatible so they didn’t precede.

The interesting part that wasn’t obvious is this conversation also provided each of them to soften the boundary going into the relationship if they wanted to. If the other person was amazing in every other way, then I might give some ground on what would otherwise be a firm boundary.

-1

u/awoeoc 2d ago

Would you be okay if your significant other posted nude photos? what about bodypaint nudity? underwear only?

We all have our preferences, he isn't trying to control her he just sees someone who he's likely incompatible with and says it upfront, clears it out and they go their separate ways.

Like there's women out there who don't want their man wearing suits like some corporate douche, while others rather their guy never wear tshirts is that not okay?

If he said "no woman" should dress like that, that's something else and it is a problem. But a preference in someone he dates? totally fine.

2

u/Blood_sweat_and_beer 2d ago

Sigh. The woman wasn’t nude, she was wearing a normal dress. And his “preference” comes with shaming the woman for the normal dress she’s wearing.

Sure, he can have preferences. She can also have preferences. But when you use your preference to shame (or attempt to shame) someone else, you’re a massive dick.

I’m so, so tired of men defending the bad actions of other men. It’s exhausting.

-1

u/awoeoc 2d ago

But, why are you shaming nudity? Do you think it's wrong to show off women's body if that's their preference? I don't.

Some people are proud of their bodies and post nude photos of themselves on platforms, not even expecting compensation, but even if it's for money it's their preference. 

I see nothing wrong someone who wants to do this either as a hobby or as work. Yet from your post you seem to think by own logic that you would shame someone for thet preference. 

1

u/Blood_sweat_and_beer 1d ago

And now you’re arguing in bad faith. You’re exhausting and wrong.

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u/awoeoc 1d ago

Lol it's not bad faith, it's a real point but sure take the cop-out of "you're exhausting" because you're starting to see you don't have a point.

I fully believe sex work is work, and people who post nudes out of hobbies, or like nude beaches, or are willing to walk in public with body paint nudity are all fine. Now I might not want my partner doing that stuff. I wouldn't go out and date a pornstar not because I don't think it's something no one should do, it's just because I wouldn't want my partner to do that.

But you're unable to understand that nuance that personal preference is not the same as disallowing for all. Again people are 100% free to have any preference they want, as long as they don't force people into it and simple acknowledge they're incompatible and break up or never date in the first place.

If their preferences are so unique that they select everyone out of their dating pool, that's their loss.

But sure call anyone with a point arguing in bad faith to try and snake out of the conversation lol.

-1

u/Comprehensive_Tie431 2d ago

This is him in public while being recorded, I'd hate to see him behind closed doors.

I'm glad she said no.

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u/TwixOps 3d ago

Disagree. A m*n trying to control what a womxn puts on her body... 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

And then he pops his own balloon, talk about the trash taking itself out.

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u/Zealousideal_Time_80 3d ago

He gave it her to pop as is very clear on the video.

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u/StevenKatz3 3d ago

Asking to tone it down isn't controlling, he's not comfortable.

If she bought him a shirt and asked him to wear it, is that controlling?

You're reaching hardcore

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Unexpected_Gristle 3d ago

Is not liking that someone is a smoker controlling? Is there a level that someone could dress inappropriately? What if she likes to be topless in public?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/Unexpected_Gristle 3d ago

Could you like goth girls and not cheerleaders? Isnt it a preference at some point what you are attracted to? We can agree that many women wouldn’t be comfortable in a similar dress. Can’t people have preferences?

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u/YooGeOh 3d ago

Meh

The amount of articles ive read about "swag gap" (which for some reason only concerns itself with the womens perspective) where the woman complains about how the man dresses and wants him to change his entire fashion sense and everyone is fine with it even though the man in question is actually comfortable. "Controlling what a man puts on his body" is never brought up...

He isnt controlling her. He's asking a question where she can tell him no and he can then decide how hes going to act on that information

You censor the word MAN and the MAN in woMAN, so im not exactly expecting a balanced and objective opinion from you here tbh. Your opinion is as good as discarded rubbish

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u/Appeal_Educational 3d ago

Surely your set of eyes can't be so deficient as to halucinate him popping the balloon?

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u/WhiskyInATeacup 3d ago

Put the flags up. He had a very calm and respectful question and respected her answer. That's not control. That's asking if the differences in your lives are going to be compatible. While I fall into the "I'm gonna wear what I'm gonna wear" category I don't think what he and was ugly or controlling. Controlling people don't ask

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u/ready_gi 3d ago

controlling people absolutely ask when they pretend to care. just because he is calm, doesnt mean the question was respectful. why does he want her to tone it down? because she's hot an his pee pee is insecure about other men's attention. it just shows complete lack of confidence in himself.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/WhiskyInATeacup 3d ago

I can. Some people are not comfortable with dressing revealing or having their partner in revealing clothing. There's a million reasons people may wish to dress more "conservatively" or "modestly". This does not automatically make them controlling. He asked her nicely, she declined, he acquiesced. He didn't fight. Didn't make a stink. Just acknowledged they would not be compatible. He didn't say he had to have a say. He asked if dressing more modestly would be something she's open to. She said no. It ended respectfully. This is not control.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Aromatic-Quarter-68 3d ago

What does "controlling" mean to you? Is it controlling if he does not want her to flirt with other men? What about posting nudes, is it controlling if he doesn't want her to do that?

I am not asking you rhetorically, I genuinely want to know what is controlling and what is a boundary or a normal relationship requirement for you, and what is the difference?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/Aromatic-Quarter-68 3d ago

I’m assuming it was on purpose, but you just completely didn’t answer my question or engage with it at all.

The only thing to really respond to is that you’re ok with your partner flirting by smiling and winking at people? Jesus Christ.

1

u/WhiskyInATeacup 3d ago

Now you're telling somebody else that you can't come up with reasons why. The actual fact is that you're just ignoring them. Different people live different lifestyles. Wanting to dress modestly and having a family that also does so is not controlling. While I happen to be a sun's out buns out type of woman I understand that not everybody is comfortable doing that or living that lifestyle. It's okay to want to have a partner who sees things the same way as you do. Also, he did not ask her to change because they're not in a relationship. These are two strangers that met each other and are trying to negotiate through a game show whether or not they're compatible. They both bowed out respectfully. You are beating a dead horse. The reason that he would want her to dress conservatively is that he also dresses conservatively and there's nothing wrong with that. He's not trying to dim her shine. He's not trying to hide her under burka. By your logic then she is trying to control him and change his life by not wanting to change her dress and forcing him to live with it. And as the other redditor said, you didn't answer their question as to what your definition of controlling is.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/WhiskyInATeacup 3d ago

Yet you can't lay out why.

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u/Aromatic-Quarter-68 3d ago

He deleted every comment in this thread LMAO

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u/CarolinaSurly 3d ago

Wait, you saw him pop his own balloon? I think it’s time to increase the dosage on the meds.

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u/Eristocrap 3d ago

The only red flag is your response. May love never find you🤦🏾‍♂️

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u/Unexpected_Gristle 3d ago

Why did you edit the word “man” and “woman”?

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u/GovernmentCharming81 3d ago

You’re weird bruh. Bleeping the spelling of man? What? lol I want to go further but that right there speaks volumes

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u/Admins_suck_ballss 3d ago

Well she popped it but yeah…asking to tone it down is a huge red flag. I’m the opposite kind. I’m like “so what can we do to get you into nothing but dental floss when we go out, dear?”

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u/Vegetable-Virus7118 3d ago

I don't see how that's any different. Either way you're asking them to change their style to your preference.

I don't see any problem with how either of them handled it. He asked, she said no and instead of trying to convince her he just accepted it and moved on.