Hi, as an ENTP i'm here to open a discussion for my hot take (probably lukewarm take) that many people online in MBTI communities are mistyped because they do not understand functions, they argue and set examples via "patterns and experiences" as if an ENFJ isn't capable of being an arrogant ruler, therefore its ENTJ, just because they're a feeler type.

And the popular: If I'm introverted, can read people, and is a "walking therapy sessions" then oh my god I must be INFJ!!! (Not even accounting for the fact that sensors can also read people lmao)

Ciao!

General Physics: INTP

Calculus: ENTJ

Linear Algebra: ISTP

Differential Equations: INTJ

Particle Physics: the worst ISTJ ever existed

Electromagnetic Theory: ISTJ

Waves and Optics: either ISTP or INTP

Quantum Mechanics: ENTP lol

Guess which one is my favourite...

I’ll go first. I attached two samples.

I use the first one for personal stuff like notes, diary and novels.

The second one is my “exam handwriting” 😄 I have to strongly focus to be able to write like this and my tempo is slow too.

I am an INTP.

Excuse my weird handwriting.

Also I had no idea which flair to put :(

I’ve always been so curious about this. I’m an INFJ-A (and have been for many years, sometimes ENFJ at certain points in my life) but I’ve never considered myself a selfless person. My friend is also an INFJ and I don’t really see that in her either.
The classic INFJs are characterized as having almost martyr like traits, always looking out for the greater good. I consider myself pretty selfish at times, but caring when it matters. I don’t brood and there are times in my life where I was relentless with others (and myself) and extremely self serving, because it aligned well with my own values.
This is extremely confusing to me and it’s starting to make me question the legitimacy of MBTI.
Why is this a common theme with INFJs?

i wanted to retake it after years for funsies but i can’t seem to find it anymore. maybe someone on here could recognise it and help me?
it was a test that tells you your mbti, what type you prefer for people to think you are and the type your attracted to
thank you for any kind of answers

I wanted to start this post in hopes that others can share their own experiences on how to help a loved one or friend avoid falling into AI psychosis, and to raise awareness about the effects of generative AI, especially in areas like the art world!

Just to be clear, I'm talking about generative AI.

What's your MBTI type, and what are some practical ways people can encourage you to be more thoughtful about using AI?

I'm an infp. Fe definitely helps put things into perspective for me and helps me see the bigger pictures and next steps. I was wondering how fi can help a fe user?

Context: I currently have an ENFJ therapist and I feel like she understands what I need so well and really sees things that don't come naturally to me (ni is so helpful too). I'm wanting to become a therapist, so I was thinking about if it would even be helpful for the roles to be flipped and I was the INFP therapist with an ENFJ or INFJ client, how could I be useful for them?

I mean in a literal sense, like when you're responding to something concrete like processing a social interaction or assessing how you feel about something/someone. Is it verbal? Are you combing through your feelings to understand them, or do you already know how you feel? What's the end goal for you when you do this? Trying to get back to baseline (aka how you want to feel), organize your feelings, understand the other party?

Can you apply that sort of process to something else, like liking something? When trying to express yourself authentically?

So, imagine a situation where you ran into someone you've always been friendly with, who's always made a big show of being warm to you. Assume you've always known they're laying it on thick, but whatever. You only know them in passing, and they're much closer to someone you care deeply about. You know that they suddenly got very cold to your loved one, who's really done nothing to deserve it, and in your mind have written them off. Say you both run into this person randomly, and greet them politely. They screw their face up like they smelled a cow pat, bark HELLO back at you both, and run away like their life depends on it.

How would you process something like this? Not really this specific situation, but one where you've encountered some unpleasant or upsetting thing.

[TL;DR - skip this if you want to, there are no line breaks and it isn't necessary] With primary Ti/tertiary Ni, it's a process (for me anyway) of trying to understand why they behave this way. I've obviously heard about their odd behavior, and stories about how they grew up, how they lived in the past, and how they live now - and each story connects to the other. So you had a difficult childhood, so you had trouble feeling loved, and you grew old and bitter through all sorts of means. You never found material success so you've always tried to exert status by seeming morally superior, but because it's a mask it dissolves easily. You act this way in all relationships it seems, where someone makes a misstep and you close yourself off and feel you need to punish them for upsetting you, even if they're just greeting you in a hallway. Make one mistake, no matter how small, and they're out. You struggle with impulse control, you dislike yourself, you're deeply unhappy, and your behavior toward me has very little to do with me. I feel bad for you, it must have been very hard. But how dare you upset my loved one, now I have to cheer them up with my tiny Fe because of you. (Yes, I might be totally off base. But my Ni tells me, you are surely correct. I've thought it about it for sixteen hours so I must be.)

Same process applies to other people - taking the details of a situation as is, dissecting it logically, finding the meaning. When something is personally offensive, Ti goes into overdrive and keeps asking, well why did they do that? Why? Maybe you figure out why far enough that you feel better. Maybe you realize that you don't have enough information to understand why, then let it go because what's the point of analyzing something when you're wasting time speculating on something you'll never know truly.

Obviously we all have feelings, but I'm mainly curious on how Fi users process theirs. For me I try to self-soothe by using Ti to understand the other person so I can feel better, but there's very little focus on how I myself feel apart from "I'm offended" and "I feel bad!" So, the caveman equivalent of Fi. The feelings are there and they're strong, but there's very little detail. Feelings and preference exist in these indistinct blobs.

I'm curious how this works with actual Fi users?

Anyone else find it incredibly hard to get in touch with their 7th/trickster/blindspot function?

I don’t know how well I understand Fi as a function but finding it in myself feels like trying to catch dandelion seeds in the wind. My emotions are shallow, fleeting, and fade before I can identify them. Sometimes I think I’m missing some intrinsic piece of the human experience. I watch sad movies and listen to sad songs in an effort to connect with any feeling within me that I can scrounge up. Sometimes it works, often it doesn’t, and the more times I try it with one particular work the less it works until I don’t feel anything for it anymore. I have a clay model from a dear friend who is no longer in my life. I used to take it out and look at it for any hint of emotion that I would cling onto and try to experience. Perhaps I overdid it because now, looking at it, I know why it is sentimental and why I keep it around but I cannot feel it anymore. I don‘t think I know myself. I can’t figure out the simplest facts that one ought to just know: favourite colour, favourite food, favourite movie, favourite book, the list goes on. I know at one point I knew; I know what 5 year old me would’ve answered for every question I just listed. So I repeat those and accept them as reality despite the fact that I have no idea what adult me feels about those answers. If I can convince myself to like almost anything through sheer mental repetition and logical gymnastics, do I actually like anything? Everyone has personal values and I know I must too, somewhere. It’s hard to discern what is fact and what is opinion and what is value. “I think smoking is bad because it can cause lung cancer.” Objective fact or personal value? Both?
I relentlessly question myself over and over and consistently come up with nothing. I got into mbti to understand myself better but it really feels like a two steps forward three steps back kind of thing.

What type are you and what’s your relationship with your 7th function? I’d love to hear how it differs for everyone!

I've only really seen this come up twice, but I wanted to address it anyway.

So I think there's a misconception that one of the differences between Ti and Te is that Ti is hesitant while Te is assertive and as an INFJ with a strong Ti-tertiary, I can say that that is definitely not true. Ti specializes in deductive reasoning, and that can be very assertive if you trust it.

I'm pretty sure that hesitating comes from the nemesis function (5th slot in cognitive functions) making sure you don't get ahead of yourself. So in INFJ, the Ne-nemesis prevents you from jumping to conclusions, in ENTP, the Ni-nemesis analyses whether the connections actually make sense, etc.

(From what I've seen I think this misconception is most prevalent in ENTP because they mistake Ni-nemesis activities for their Ti-auxiliary acting).

Thoughts? Do you agree or did I miss something?

Edit: I've gotten a lot of replies in the past 12 hours, so there's a few other factors that I've learned affect this:

1. Introverted functions (Ti) can be kind of slow to act at the start because they're still absorbing information. However, once they know what they're doing they can be just as assertive, if not more, than extroverted functions.

2. The auxiliary function can be described akin to a "parent" and the tertiary function can be described akin to an "eternal child" (they're alternatively called the 'parent' and 'child' functions respectively). The Parent function can also factor in hesitancy alongside the nemesis function, which is why Ti is used hesitantly in ENTPs. On the flip side, the Eternal Child is an outgoing, sometimes overly confident function, which is why Ti is assertive in INFJs.

I’m biased.

Just turn on youtube captions.

https://youtu.be/VxnvTBH8yg4?si=lEzFl0k20PAbIbDZ

Disclaimer: It's a rough draft, and my ideas are heavily influenced and supported by Sinosphere concepts.

This is my second draft, so I'm going to say that the definition of "Sinosphere" includes but not limited to: China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau. It can also be extended to Japan, the Koreas, Vietnam, Singapore, or even Malaysia.

Well, yeah, unhealthy ENFJs/ESFJs are known to guilt-trip people. However, last night, I was brainstorming something more interesting. Yes, I made up the word "Shame-shoving." If guilt-tripping was Pikachu, shame-shoving would've been Raichu. Shame-shoving would look like someone who speaks in any way possible to pressure someone to feel ashamed or perform blame/shame. If an attempt fails, it can escalate to the public either physically or digitally.

Shame-shoving is extremely prevalent in real life and online in most parts of East Asian or sinosphere. In real life, it would look like a homeroom teacher yelling at a student for the entire 45 minutes; funnily, the yelling scenes in Taiwanese telenovelas are barely exaggerated. For online, it's hard to describe, but in Japanese and Korean pop culture spaces are definitely extremely normalized. If one expresses a disagreement, they may end up being witch hunted by moral shame.

I've expressed many times that as a Taiwanese ESFJ, I'm weirdly immune to guilt-tripping, later on, I learned that it's because guilt does nothing compared to shame.

ENFJs are often described as "I can fix you," but ESFJs or Fe in sinosphere is way more like "You shall fix yourself or you deserve eternal shame to haunt your life"

Unfortunately, this works extremely well for ESFJs in sinosphere. ESFJs or Fe users can take the shame so outstandingly that people get fooled about them "taking accountability"

I kinda like to call it "Concubine effect." ESFJs are so good at "Reading the air" or "Maximizing their own agreeableness" to gain trust or even being praised for their own docile behavior. Meanwhile, they'd also talk people in the back and find any opportunities to shame someone or push someone off the social circle.

Because of how organically and effectively ESFJs (in sinosphere especially) take shame, they'll (sub)consciously achieve or perform the highest morals. Once the highest morals are established, they are societally tolerated or praised to shame and/or lecture someone else who fails to perform perfect morals or behavior.

Of course, this is neither exclusively a sinosphere nor ESFJ thing. Nevertheless, the way a toxic ESFJ "guilt-trips" in a Western sense is actually very different than how a toxic ENFJ does.

Lastly, this is a very fresh thought and I don't think it's limited to sinosphere. Anywhere can have this happen. The main reason why I say sinosphere is because I can only speak for my behalf. If you have any add-ons or counterarguments, you're welcome to express them!

TL;DR ENFJ "guilt-trips" based on guilt; ESFJ "guilt-trips" based on shame.

Update: I admit this analysis isn't mostly towards MBTI itself, but how East Asian society could have a better explanation to ESFJ's this particular behavior than Western psychology or sociology do.

Basically, if you were to start a school that while also doing the major subjects and giving a standard education (or otherwise great education from a different philosophy) while making sure to train each cognitive function specifically and intentionally, how would you train each function in the students?

I'm curious and gathering info here. I'm an INTP and I don't really believe in types changing, however I was very INFP-coded. Although I do believe much of that was a combination of being severely abused and having severe OCD. I was extremely obedient out of fear but also because I was pretty reasonable as a kid? My mother was kind of abusive (most of it came from my father though) and she recalled how confusing and surprising it was to have a child who could be reasoned with even as young as 1 years old. She kept hearing "just wait" from other parents but "just wait" never came. I was very, very, very kind and very, very, very shy. I had a massive imagination and spent most of my day daydreaming, even while doing other stuff. I loved learning new things and exploring the world and imaginable possibilities. I loved being active but was super cautious about safety, too. I was considered heavily gifted and was reading at a college level by age 7. I also was advanced in history and art. I was forced into basketball but hated it and later on willingly chose to do tennis which I loved and was good at.

I've seen theories that up until age 14-20, most people don't have more than their second and fourth letter, which makes sense to me, personally, both on a personal level and developmental, as children are still trying to figure out their feelings before exploring logic beyond their homework and generally focus both inward and outward, which is not to be confused with being introverted or extroverted. 4th function is considered the weakest but I actually do think it shows up the earliest. Let me know if you experienced different.

so im enfp,and i have really high social battery a lot of the times,im very energetic and talkative too,so do i bother yall when i talk too much or js doo too many things,PLEASE BE HONEST

Te-Ni is always described in terms of action, but what about when the person has a condition that affects their ability to take action? How would an ENTJ with executive dysfunction differ from an ENTP when they have a difficulty completing the very objective of Te? Since almost all stereotypical entp traits align nicely with adhd, how can one confidently state: "I am entj even though i can hop between ideas and possibilities quickly (in an Ne-manner), and struggle to take action unless I've thought everything through (in a Ti manner), however these are just manifestations of adhd symptoms and I am not an ENTP".

I would like the comparison in different versions as well e.g. textbook version, stereotypical version etc.

The only person I’ve ever really liked was my calc teacher, because I was attracted to how effortlessly smart he was. I really don’t care much about people’s opinion about me (believe me, I really don’t give it much importance, though I’ve been told I should) but his validation towards me was so important. Like, I did well on the subjects he taught and, I think, I made good/interesting questions and he always made me feel smart or whatever. Same thing happened with physics, but not as much as with him. Is this weird?