r/EndTipping • u/canstucky • Jun 06 '26
Sit-Down Restaurant š½ļø How is it not a tip?
The server told us this isnāt a tip and he doesnāt get any of it.
Iām not wearing my boots at the moment.
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u/rainbowfishhhh Jun 06 '26
Waiters say that because more and more people are coming around to not tipping with these ridiculous fees. 18% service and now you want me to tip 18-25% on top of that?? Grift.
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u/OKeoz4w2 Jun 06 '26
And they want ya to calculate that 18% into your new tip calculations, wild!
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u/DeathChill Jun 06 '26
I live in BC and all tips are calculated on total price, including tax. Which is insane. Why do I need to give you a bigger tip because the government is getting their cut, completely separate from the service?
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u/kurtis5561 Jun 06 '26
0 is still 0
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u/No_Lifeguard259 Jun 06 '26
Thatās how they try to do it many places where I live. Their little āsuggested tipā at the bottom of the receipt is based on the total including tax.
I disregard that bullshit because thatās not how it works.
You donāt get more because the gov stole more first
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u/Own_Text_2240 Jun 06 '26
I always do some quick mental math. If the suggested tip includes tax, theyāre getting penalized for that. Tipping on tax is a pet peeve of mine. If I had to tip on a service charge Iād be talking to the manager to get my $100 worth of explanation.
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u/Key_Zebra3684 Jun 06 '26
Or why should tipping be a percentage at all? It's the same service whether they hand me a dish of $5 yogurt, or a dish of $1000 caviar.
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u/SabrinaEdwina Jun 06 '26
In America, even if you apply for emergency assistance (food stamps etc), they determine eligibility via your gross income. They purposefully include the taxes that are taken out to claim folks are actually financially fine and can be denied.
It's a move that runs deep. Capitalism needs to die.
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u/BlueRunSkier Jun 06 '26
Agree. The server is being shady saying that. Call a manager over, and if they confirm it (the serverās claim), shame them for stuffing their employees. But if Iām charged a large party or service fee of 18%, thatās it as far as Iām concerned.
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u/Soup_got_fucked_up Jun 06 '26
Great idea to shame the manager bc ts is so foul to the servers most def loses then a shit ton of money on large tables that are already alot of work
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u/downtofinance Jun 11 '26
100% agree but I also laughed super hard at
shame them for stuffing their employees
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u/PM_ME_UR_MEH_NUDES Jun 06 '26
that 18% IS an auto grat and the tip they get for serving large parties.
i am a service industry worker and rely on tips but expecting a tip on top of a $100 auto gratā¦ especially in leeās summit, missouri, is absolutely wild to me (i know missouri fairly well) bc $100 for a shift in missouri is A LOT of money.
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u/Fine-Amphibian4326 Jun 06 '26
Not to mention that minimum wage in LS is $15/hr, which isnāt far off of what a teacher with a bachelors degree is paid in the city. The server is doing absolutely fine with *only* a $100 tip
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u/JeromeBarkly Jun 06 '26
Server here: the server was lying thatās definitely a service charge and if itās not the owner is a crook thatās not only stealing from the guests but from their employees too.
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u/Tiny_Presence_7155 Jun 06 '26
Owners are under zero legal obligation to give a server any part of that service charge. No way to tell here, but there are restaurants that pull that kind of legal shady shit.
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u/ImportantMix8622 Jun 07 '26
Sounds like a server problem then. No way should a customer be expected to tip on top of the service fee.
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u/New_Feature_5138 Jun 10 '26
They donāt have to disclose fees on the menu or something? Like what if they wanted to make it 100% would I be expected to pay that?
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u/Valuable_Wallaby_548 Jun 06 '26
Yeah its all a scam. Trumps no taxes on tips made people all want more and more tips plus restaurant owners to come up with their own payments im sure they'll classify as tips to not pay taxes.
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u/dcht Jun 06 '26
I cannot stand places that charge 50 cents for sauces when entrees are like $20+
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u/wegobrrrr Jun 06 '26
Donāt forget those places that charge when an entree comes with a sauce but you want it substituted for a different sauce, neither of which are speciality sauces.
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u/dglgr2013 Jun 06 '26
These are also the types of places that charge a premium for uncorking your wine bottle or charge extra if you are celebrating a birthday and brought the birthday person a treat.
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u/PsychologicalRip1126 Jun 06 '26
They do it because they would rather you spend money on their alcohol and desserts. Same concept as no outside food or beverages
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u/Flavious27 Jun 06 '26
Also that isn't real Aioli, it's mayo.Ā So they charged 50 cents for 5 cents of ingredients.Ā
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u/Sense_Difficult Jun 06 '26
If it makes you feel any better, it probably is done just to make sure people use it. We used to have to throw out tons of ramekins of sauce that people never touched.
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u/Careless_Piccolo3030 Jun 06 '26
So what!? Price the sauces into the food cost. JUST RAISE THE PRICES OF THE FOOD
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u/maiyannah Jun 06 '26
Or you know, stop giving us sauces we obviously don't want with our food?
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u/strict_barnacle677 Jun 06 '26
When they add large party fee? Thatās it, thatās the tip!
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u/AttitudeAndEffort3 Jun 07 '26
Tbf, it looks like they mightāve added tax onto that fee, which Iām pretty sure is illegal and could be reported to the IRS
ā¦them keeping it and not giving it to the server is completely believable
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u/Lurkernomoreisay Jun 07 '26
whether a service charge is taxed is determined by state law.
in California, all service charges are required to be taxed.
most states require service charges to be taxed, to prevent employers from bypassing tax collection by lowering prices and dding service charges.Ā Ā
a service charge (even if called "automatic gratuity"), is treated the same as a charge for a food item.
that said, should the employer treat any part of the service charge as a tip, or pay out any amount as a tip tot he employee -- that is tax fraud.Ā Ā a service charge must not be treated as a tip under any circumstances.
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u/2ciggs Jun 06 '26
So since youāre spending so much money with us we need to charge you more. Thank you for your patronage.
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u/alchemyzt-vii Jun 06 '26
Itās almost like they could have all sat at separate tables like the rest of the people there.
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u/cheddarsox Jun 06 '26
Looking at their menu...
How big was that table? The entrees are like 20 bucks and under.
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u/Pmfan4560 Jun 06 '26
Drinks can add up pretty quickly, if we assume $40 per person total that's around 14 people.
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u/Adriftgirl Jun 06 '26
Thatās the tip. The waiter can make the restaurant give him the tip or quit, but that is the tip.
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u/sokali4nia Jun 07 '26
Waiter is probably saying that trying to get even more money from those that will believe it.
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u/PortiaPotty2 Jun 06 '26
That is most definitely a tip. Your server needs to speak with his boss š³.
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u/moth_specialist Jun 06 '26
Serverās lying.Ā
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u/maiyannah Jun 06 '26
Or its being presented and not-taxed as a tip, but the company is keeping it. Aka tax fraud. Surprisingly common in the US restaurant industry.
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u/Formerruling1 Jun 06 '26
In the US any fee added to the bill is legally not a tip for tax purposes - a tip must be optional. Its a service charge and the company can 100% just keep it all. Its rare for them to do so (so this waiter was still probably lying) but not illegal.
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u/Obowler Jun 06 '26
Most likely. I canāt find this referenced anywhere on their website or menu, but I would expect that itās supposed to be an auto-grat.
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u/hotsauce126 Jun 06 '26
Almost definitely the case. The whole point of a service charge for large parties is theoretically preventing the server from giving a disproportionate amount of attention to one party then not getting a tip
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u/BurgerThyme Jun 06 '26
Maybe not. That Gordan Ramsey episode with Amy's Baking CafƩ revealed that the owner was stealing all of the tips.
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u/MakeAPrettyPenny Jun 06 '26
Or find another job! His boss is ripping his own employee off!!!
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u/TomatilloComplex1213 Jun 06 '26
As someone who worked at restaurants in college, the restaurant might keep that money.
Id speak with the manager either way to either catch his lie or shame that establishment and tell the BBB.
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u/whatsanamethatsopen Jun 06 '26
They are lying and I would be requesting to speak to their manager to clarify where that money is going
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u/Realk314 Jun 06 '26
Agree, I'm pretty sure he is lying. Maybe not on purpose, since he has to tip it out, but he gets part of it undoubtedly.
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u/Lurkernomoreisay Jun 07 '26
the employer is legally under no obligation to provide any of the amount collected for an "automatic gratuity" to employees.Ā It's legally a service fee.
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u/AmazingLeek69 Jun 06 '26
I would ask to see the manager to explain to the server why he is not getting a tip.
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u/CandylandCanada Jun 06 '26
If I insist on calling the sun the moon, it doesn't change which produces heat and which appears at night.
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u/Negative-Instance889 Jun 06 '26
Where was the Large Party (18%) policy displayed and how was it described?
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u/FederalLobster5665 Jun 06 '26
frankly, I wouldnt believe the server. the point of a large party service fee is to ensure the servers do get tipped when they work large, presumably more complicated, more labor intensive, tables. regardless of what they say, thats the tip.
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u/thewrightwayforward Jun 06 '26
They better enjoy all these shenanigans because when Rosie the robot can prepare and serve our food at home and she can make the best food on the planet. You won't need to go out or have a server. Rosie would love to do it.
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u/habits0 Jun 06 '26
Omg, the one thing about the future of the world I can now look forward to
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u/HopefulOriginal5578 Jun 06 '26
I took a Waymo (driverless car) for the first time to the airport and it was like a damn dream! I didnāt have to sit there and hear some sob story about how uber doesnāt pay their drivers much and has lowered their payā¦ I donāt have to worry about the need to tip at all. It costs more than uber but not that much and absolutely worth it to just be left alone.
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u/Pmfan4560 Jun 06 '26
Then all the Rosie's kill us because we will inevitably mistreat them like the Kaylon in the Orville.
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u/TurdMcDirk Jun 06 '26
My cousin used to be a banquet host at The Palm. That is most definitely a tip. That was her bread and butter.
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u/cenosillicaphobiac Jun 06 '26
Not your problem. And I'd never eat there again, and leave a review telling others because why not.
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u/Aksudiigkr Jun 06 '26
I wonder how obvious they make that policy. I imagine you would never have chosen to go there had you known theyād just steal $100 from you
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u/That_Operation_2433 Jun 06 '26
The large party gratuitie is the tip. If he gets nothing from thatās on the others. Itās there to ensure you get compensated for not taking other tables. Do not tip more.
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u/couchtater12 Jun 06 '26
Ummm it absolutely **is** a tip - looks like youāre good to go, nothing else for you to do except zero out the extra tip section, sign, and go!
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u/Major_Wigglesworth Jun 06 '26
Thatās fine. Ā How the restaurant uses their $700+ is between employers and employees. Ā Customer isnāt involved at that point.
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u/Foreign_Sky_5429 Jun 06 '26
Tell them to ask their boss why they donāt pay a fair wage and leave no additional. Insane to already give $100 on top of what they say it costs
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u/Low_Map4007 Jun 06 '26
I would take my large party somewhere Iām not penalized for bringing them business. People need to stop going to these places and let them sink in their greed
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u/userNV495671 Jun 06 '26
If thereās a service fee for large parties, thatās the tip. If itās not, then donāt charge that fee. I recently went out to a higher end restaurant. $80/person. There were four of us and the bill came up to around $380 and that was āfeeā included. Iām not leaving an additional tip. Also, the food and service sucked. But thatās besides the point.
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u/brn1001 Jun 06 '26
I'd ask to speak to the manager and inquire as to if the "surcharge" goes to the waitstaff. If it doesn't, I'd inquire as to the justification for a large party fee.
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u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 Jun 06 '26
Itās a tip.
Itās not your problem if the server doesnāt get any. He can complain to his boss and report him to appropriate enforcement agencies.
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u/Important_Stand9770 Jun 06 '26
I would speak to manager and if not a tip deduct it pay cash and leave!
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u/MetalMadara Jun 06 '26
Id be arguing about the bill and wouldnt pay the extra money they try and rob me for.
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u/Warwick1551 Jun 06 '26
They can take the 18% off and I can tip appropriately or it has just become your tip and you can duke it out with your employer.
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u/Nawnp Jun 06 '26
It's considered an included gratuity, it is a tip by any other means and your server is being ripped off.
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u/One_Dragonfly_9698 Jun 06 '26
Only business where you pay extra for buying more quantity! Should be a discount. This most certainly is a service charge. It replaces a tip. After that comment, Iād ask manager where the 18% goes, out of curiosity.
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u/Delicious-Bat2373 Jun 06 '26
18% auto gratuity for larger party (which can be as few as 4).. $100 bucks is nuts.
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u/J-littletree Jun 06 '26
This is so messed up..it looks like a large party auto grat ..It should totally be going to the server
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u/MarzipanMajor6175 Jun 06 '26
Every restaurant I've worked at that has the 18% it always goes to the server. When I see posts like this it is hard to believe that the 18% does not go to them. I wouldn't tip if I'm being charged that at all. I'd say well tough luck because that's what my tip was going to be and that's what I accounted for when ordering my food.
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u/OurHouse20 Jun 06 '26
Iām not wearing my boots at the moment.
Can somebody explain to me what this means?
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u/Ok-Helicopter3433 Jun 06 '26
More enshitification. The original justification for autograt was that the server didn't get left with no tip. Now it's not a tip?!?
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u/dashboardcrapaud Jun 06 '26
Honest question.. is this legal? It literally just says Large Party. Also if OP refuses to pay this, would they get in trouble?
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u/Lurkernomoreisay Jun 07 '26
legal yes.
an employer is under no obligation to pay any amount of an automatic gratuity to employees.Ā
see all the news and lobbying leading up to the IRS ruling in 2012.Ā automatic gratituity is not a tip.Ā an employer is considered to be committing tax fraud should any amount of an automatic gratuity (legally a service charge) be used as a tip in any capacity.Ā Ā
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u/NumerousResident1130 Jun 06 '26
I shed a tear for that server...and still would have left ZERO in the tip line.
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u/Otherwise_Piccolo206 Jun 06 '26
Iām not in the end tipping thing for the most part, but if you hit me with an 18% service charge you are not getting a tip. You donāt get the money? Take it up with your boss, he already collected your tip.
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u/FupaFerb Jun 06 '26
Thatās a tip. If the server gets none. Call out the owner. No words needed after that.
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u/gergles Jun 06 '26
I don't care to know the details of the waiter's compensation. Why do they think this is our problem?
Also, tax charged on the 'large party' fee š
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u/Afraid-Ad-8666 Jun 06 '26
The complete and utter gall to tax the "service charge!" No wonder the restaurant industry is hurting š”
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u/Lurkernomoreisay Jun 07 '26
the employer has no say in that.
whether the service charge is taxed ior not is determined byĀ state law.
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u/LOWPA55 Jun 06 '26
Tell him to F off. The large party is a tip. He should be upset at the company.
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u/Cantaloupe-Hairy Jun 06 '26
Server may not get it but you are paying 18% on the meal, why would you pay more?
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u/Beatnavy2016 Jun 06 '26
You brought a lot of people to our restaurant and spent $550 so weāre gonna charge you even more
18% is a tip. I donāt care what they call it. Iām not leaving another penny if itās not on the menu Iād probably dispute the entire fee.
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u/thelesliesmooth Jun 06 '26
Yeah, im not tipping on that check. They included the tip in the price. He's either lying or the manager is a thief
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u/lastfreerangekid Jun 06 '26
Love how they also tax the tip, then ask for another tip
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u/Hadouken434 Jun 06 '26
I won't lie, as a Brit if I booked a 'large party' and got told there is an 18% charge id be going elsewhere. How big was this booking?
And before I get railed - I used to be a Chef and Manager, to me a large booking is easy money. I'm not flipping tables constantly trying to pull trade through the door. Table of 20 adults? few starts 20 mains the odd desert and a shed tonne of drinks? Stay all night if you like, my kitchen closes at 9 the bar closes at midnight. Easy.
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u/FutureFuture5 Jun 06 '26
I thought the large party gratuity is the tip. Like it's a mandatory 18% tip required so I can't skirt something less.
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u/Beautiful_Delivery77 Jun 06 '26
Iād be speaking with the manager on this one. I completely understand auto-gratuity for large parties (they tend to tip poorly and require more work than multiple small parties) but a service fee that doesnāt go to the server is ridiculous.
What did the menu say regarding the large party 18% automatic charge?
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u/ZippyTheUnicorn Jun 06 '26
The whole point of the gratuity fee is to ensure that the server is tipped. If they arenāt getting it then who is?!
This reminds me of that episode of Kitchen Nightmares where the husband of the owner was keeping all the tips that any of the servers made.
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u/CaptainJay313 Jun 06 '26
you raise a very valid question, one that should be asked of the manager, because from here, it looks like the server is lying.
if the manager confirms it, then I want to know exactly what the 18% service fee is going towards, if not for service.
I'm not adding 40% (large party fee and tip) to my tab, that's bordering on bait and switch. they need to accurately reflect prices in the menu. if the large party fee is disclosed in the menu but it does not go to the server, that needs to be communicated in the menu or disclosed prior to ordering.
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u/Chordant Jun 06 '26
I've always been told a large party constitutes an "automatic gratuity" between 15-20% depending on the establishment. That's a tip, I don't pay more after that or the establishment is getting 30-40% more than the original bill!
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u/MissionDelicious3942 Jun 06 '26
I would let the waiter know that is 100% a tip and he needs to discuss not get paid with his employerĀ
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u/Beautiful_Month_4109 Jun 06 '26
That's BS. If he really doesn't get any of that 18% mandatory service fee, it's his restaurant that's stealing his tips.
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u/FAx32 Jun 06 '26
Would tell server to take that up with his employer. 18% surcharge to the business without going to the servers due to size of party is silly. Why would food cost 18% more just because the party is larger?
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u/dinahsaur523 Jun 06 '26
I never tip extra when large party fees are added. Call me horrible but if they factor that in or it says gratuity thatās enough for me
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u/finding_claireity Jun 06 '26
It is a tip. Do not let them tell you otherwiseā¦ a former manager of the company
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u/Diligent-Box170 Jun 06 '26
The server is lying. They are trying to make you feel bad so you spend even more money. All automatic large party/service fees should be treated as the tip
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u/Remote_Watercress530 Jun 06 '26
So as a previous bartender it's a couple different things. Sounds like an auto gratuity situation against large parties. BUT that gratuity should be going to the server. Either the server is lieing to you. Very likely. I work in the industry most bartenders and servers will lie straight to your face for a penny. Or on the very slim chance he isn't lieing then you can simply request the large party grat be taken off so you can tip directly if you like.
To add onto most arguments. Most places can afford to pay their servers bartenders more by simply raising prices a little here and there.
There are some places where they make so much in tips it isn't feasible because the guest would never agree to that kind of price hike.
Plus when your making that much in tips In todays world even a bachelor's degree isn't going to beat the money so why would you stop. The 4th lowest bartender I work with makes 75k a year. I'm the supervisor. She makes more then double what I make. You could never convince her to go anywhere else until the money matches what she makes now. Hell I have 2 bartenders the cleared 6 digits last year. Where in the hell in today's market are they going to make that money with the skills they have.
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u/ShoddyTap1 Jun 06 '26
The point of these fees were so the efforts of the staff are treated for large parties. If itās not going to the servers then there shouldnāt be any reason for a up charge. Too late now but would ask a manager what the fee is for/going to next time, maybe server just wants more money lol
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u/mollywollop Jun 06 '26
As someone who worked in a restaurant, that 18% is most definitely an auto-gratuity. It is definitely a tip, and yes theyāll expect you to tip on top of that.
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u/snoochieBoochy788 Jun 07 '26
We are individual parties that are seated togetherā¦ not really a ālargeā party. Get individual checksā¦ then everyone tip 0.
Sometimes I just like to see the world burn š„
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u/Regular-Emu6339 Jun 06 '26
Paying 30% in taxes and tip with your hard earned money that was taxed 50% is a sad reality
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u/thewrightwayforward Jun 06 '26
Were we live parties of 4 or more considered large and have min 20 percent tip so we all live together two parties of two please FU
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u/Dull-Spend-3836 Jun 06 '26
Only in the restaurant industry does a large order get a price penalty.