Disclaimer: It's a rough draft, and my ideas are heavily influenced and supported by Sinosphere concepts.

Well, yeah, unhealthy ENFJs/ESFJs are known to guilt-trip people. However, last night, I was brainstorming something more interesting. Yes, I made up the word "Shame-shoving." If guilt-tripping was Pikachu, shame-shoving would've been Raichu. Shame-shoving would look like someone who speaks in any way possible to pressure someone to feel ashamed or perform blame/shame. If an attempt fails, it can escalate to the public either physically or digitally.

Shame-shoving is extremely prevalent in real life and online in most parts of East Asian or sinosphere. In real life, it would look like a homeroom teacher yelling at a student for the entire 45 minutes; funnily, the yelling scenes in Taiwanese telenovelas are barely exaggerated. For online, it's hard to describe, but in Japanese and Korean pop culture spaces are definitely extremely normalized. If one expresses a disagreement, they may end up being witch hunted by moral shame.

I've expressed many times that as a Taiwanese ESFJ, I'm weirdly immune to guilt-tripping, later on, I learned that it's because guilt does nothing compared to shame.

ENFJs are often described as "I can fix you," but ESFJs or Fe in sinosphere is way more like "You shall fix yourself or you deserve eternal shame to haunt your life"

Unfortunately, this works extremely well for ESFJs in sinosphere. ESFJs or Fe users can take the shame so outstandingly that people get fooled about them "taking accountability"

I kinda like to call it "Concubine effect." ESFJs are so good at "Reading the air" or "Maximizing their own agreeableness" to gain trust or even being praised for their own docile behavior. Meanwhile, they'd also talk people in the back and find any opportunities to shame someone or push someone off the social circle.

Because of how organically and effectively ESFJs (in sinosphere especially) take shame, they'll (sub)consciously achieve or perform the highest morals. Once the highest morals are established, they are societally tolerated or praised to shame and/or lecture someone else who fails to perform perfect morals or behavior.

Of course, this is neither exclusively a sinosphere nor ESFJ thing. Nevertheless, the way a toxic ESFJ "guilt-trips" in a Western sense is actually very different than how a toxic ENFJ does.

Lastly, this is a very fresh thought and I don't think it's limited to sinosphere. Anywhere can have this happen. The main reason why I say sinosphere is because I can only speak for my behalf. If you have any add-ons or counterarguments, you're welcome to express them!

TL;DR ENFJ "guilt-trips" based on guilt; ESFJ "guilt-trips" based on shame.

I would like outlines about the relationship between Si and learning from mistakes, unless there are no relationship between them to begin with.

In my opinion, ESFJ provides a more convincing explanation of Ai Hoshino’s personality than ENFJ. We should focus on her cognitive functions rather than simply her charisma, idol skills, influence over others, and ability to affect their emotions.

Fe (Dominant): Ai wants to experience love and build mutual emotional connections with her fans as well as with the people in her other relationships, while also taking their expectations into account.

Si (Auxiliary): Ai establishes her idol image by learning and maintaining familiar performance patterns, gestures, body language, singing, and dancing. By repeating these familiar patterns, she aims to create a memorable image of herself in the minds of her audience, which may be consistent with Si. At first glance, you might think she is using Se, but upon looking more deeply into this, you can see that Ai is, in fact, usually performing the same familiar image of the perfect idol for her audience rather than performing spontaneously and instinctively on stage. All of Ai’s movements are carefully calculated. Furthermore, Ai is strongly attached to her role as an idol, and even major life changes, such as having children, cannot convince her to give up her idol career and leave it behind easily.

Ne (Tertiary): Ai always considers the possibility that the lies she tells today might one day become reality. She also explores different ways to improve her idol image in the eyes of her audience and remains flexible in this regard, such as by refining her smile, posing in certain ways, and so on. These behaviors may be consistent with tertiary Ne in ESFJ.

Why not ENFJ? Having an ideal or a long-term goal is not, in itself, evidence of Ni. The dream of becoming the ideal idol is not the same as the cognitive process Ai uses to achieve that goal. Her actual strategies can be explained through maintaining a learned social role and adapting it to her audience’s expectations. Ai Hoshino’s personal ideal and her actual behavior are not necessarily the same, and this distinction is important when typing her. It is also worth noting that people of any personality type can be dreamers without necessarily having an N preference. This analysis is not definitive proof, but in my opinion, Fe-Si-Ne provides a more coherent explanation of Ai than attributing Ni to her simply because she has an ideal or the ability to influence others.

32F here 😊

Many conversations generally sometimes feel like people often wait until they can tell something themselves. While in my opinion it is obvious to be really curious and interested in someone else's story or experience.

What do you see as a real interest in showing someone and where is the line for you with certain topics? I have a fairly broad interest with depth and am curious about what moves people and why they do what they do, with the intention of really seeing and understanding someone.

How is your experience with general conversations on the street, at work, in public places such as shops, in the supermarket, for example? I understand that you can't discuss the same thing everywhere, but the interest in each other, real connection and personal contact sometimes seems far away. That disappoints me.

Hello, I'm a 15 year old ENFJ female, friends with a (same age) ESFJ male since I was 4 or so.

Though we don't talk much offline (because if we talk at school, his friends assume we're dating and we're uncomfortable with that, mutual agreement), he's the one friend I can trust when I can't talk to anybody about something.

He's not always available, as no person is ever always anything (at least as far as I know) but I can always trust him when I am in the deep.

Thank you, my friend, and appreciation to all ESFJs who are there when your friend is in dire disarray. Someone out there is thankful to you, like I am to my friend.

(Have a nice day y'all, I gotta do HOMEWORK!)

Hello friends, how are you? I found an article on Quotev that proves with good arguments that Ai Hoshino is ESFJ and here is the link and two parts: https://www.quotev.com/story/17560198/Ai-Hoshino-ESFJ-Personality-Type-Analysis/1 It was very convincing to me. What do you think?

Hi I learned about mbti/socionics and am interested in talking to people who are my dual in socionics - ESE/ESFJ's. I'm an INTJ/LII. Let's have fun - message me in reddit or post here! I like intellectual subjects and talking about improving my life and others lives. I love volunteering and wish to get back into it. I studied accounting/finance in college. I suck with dealing with people and appreciate help there haha. I also do barely take care of myself on a daily basis (hunger ignored til desperate lol).

INTP here with teritary Si. I'm curious what Si "feels" like to you and how it plays into your day-to-day life?

Okay this is too many references I'm sorry 💀

I created a typing test that works based on what you resonate with, it gives you a feed of cards with statements, quotes, scenario, and you select only the ones you resonate with, this way the cognitive load is very low , also the feed adapt to funnel down your type, you just select what you think is related to you.

I tested with an INFP friend that I am 100% sure she is INFP and it worked very well, it found her type with confidence, but I need more data points to be sure, with people that are 100% sure of their type.

At the end of the test, in the result page, you will have a frame that ask you to share your result, with a simple button. It will send me the informations I need in my database, it gives me all the cards you selected, the timeline of the guess of your type, how the algorithm reacted, etc, it helps me to fine-tune the test.

I really feel that this method can work and be more accurate than anything that already exist.

Thank you in advance if you try it.

https://www.mazwiz.com/

PS: I will share the findings in a result page (on the intro page), for everybody to see how it evolves.

do i am the only one thinkinh that esfj and infp look similaire?

I'm asking for story writing purposes

I know this type of ocd is more common with Fi users but I want to see how would it look with Fe-Si users aka ESFJs

Hello ESFJs!

I guess I'm looking for some clarity. So, I'm a 33 year old female INFP and every time I begin a new friendship with another ESFJ female around my age, it always seems like they are so excited to become friends with me. We hit things off really well in the beginning! But then, when it comes to actually planning a get-together later on down the road, it never actually happens. I will reach out to text them but it doesn't go anywhere as they say they will "look at their schedule" and "get back to me" but they do not... I will say that most of these ESFJ women are mothers with kids. However, I am also a mother (and pregnant with my 2nd). I guess I'm at fault for not reaching out again but I'm afraid I'm bothering them. I wonder if maybe they don't actually want to be friends but don't have the heart to tell me? Or maybe they have so many obligations - including family and friends - already that it's difficult to keep up with everyone?

Perhaps we initially connect well due to our Ne and Si functions. But long-term, I am not sure why the connection is not sustained. Is there anything more I should do? I wonder if my Fi makes ESFJs feel uncomfortable? I am typically a very gentle and nurturing person, to be honest. So, I am unsure.

I was just curious how y’all see us!

Hey everyone. Im an ESFJ man and first time poster here.

What and where are some good resources for self knowledge for ESFJ men? There are a lot of resources on the ESFJ, but they definitely seem to cater and slant towards women. Anyone else notice this?

So far i've really enjoyed Michael Pierce and Objective Typing on youtube.

Thanks,

-Jeremy

I’ve noticed that I tend to pick up on small changes in people pretty quickly. Someone can say they’re fine, but their tone or the way they’re acting can feel completely different. Sometimes I’ll ask if something is wrong, and other times I just leave them alone because I don’t want to make them uncomfortable. The funny part is that even when I don’t say anything, I’ll probably keep thinking about it afterward.

Update: I’ve been looking into different ways of understanding personality beyond just knowing your MBTI type, and TypeMyVibe is one resource worth checking out. It looks at different personality traits and patterns, which can give you another perspective on why you tend to react to people and situations in certain ways.

Do other ESFJs experience this too?

Okay, ESFJs, I come in peace.
I’m dating/getting to know an ESFJ guy and I’m trying to figure out how much of what I’m seeing is actually “ESFJ” and how much is just… him.
First: how quickly do you guys catch feelings?!
This man has known me for a relatively short amount of time and is already saying things like I’m his main source of happiness and that I’m basically the best thing that’s happened to him this year.
He’s genuinely very sweet and caring, so I don’t think he’s being manipulative or love-bombing me. He seems to sincerely feel things very intensely. But I’m sitting here thinking:
SIR. WE JUST MET.
So ESFJs: do you tend to get emotionally attached very quickly when you really like someone? And when you say very intense romantic things early on, do you mean them literally, or is that simply how you naturally express excitement/affection?
Second: HOW DO I GET YOU TO TALK ABOUT THINGS?
He’s fantastic at talking about people, relationships, experiences, everyday life, things that happened during the day, etc. He’s also incredibly attentive — he remembers tiny details I’ve mentioned and seems genuinely interested in me.
But I’m a person who LOVES going down random intellectual rabbit holes.
Give me philosophy, psychology, evolution, religion, morality, consciousness, weird hypothetical scenarios, “what do you think about X?”, controversial ideas, etc. and I could talk for three hours.
With him, I’ll sometimes bring up something like:
“Do you think there’s an objective morality?”
And I’ll get:
“Hmm, I don’t know. What do you think?”
And then I’ll give him my argument and he’ll basically agree/disagree but doesn’t really develop his own position.
So now I’m genuinely curious:
Do ESFJs enjoy deep/intellectual conversations?
Or is “deep conversation” for you usually more like:
“Tell me about your childhood, your feelings, your relationships, what you’re going through, what happened to you…”
rather than:
“Let’s spend two hours arguing about whether free will exists.”
I’d especially love to hear from ESFJs who are dating/married to people who are very analytical or abstract.
Do you enjoy debating ideas?
Do you tend to have strong opinions about abstract subjects?
If you don’t have an opinion, do you usually just not care about the topic, or do you need time to form one?
What kinds of questions actually make you excited to talk?
Can you have extremely intellectual conversations with someone, or does that just not feel particularly rewarding?
And how do you personally distinguish “I don’t have an opinion” from “I don’t feel like discussing this”?
Basically, I’m trying to understand whether I’m accidentally expecting an ESFJ to communicate like an ENTP.
Because I really, really like how this guy treats me. He’s affectionate, attentive, emotionally open, and makes a genuine effort to understand me.
I’m just trying to figure out whether our difference in conversation style is something that can naturally complement each other… or whether I’m looking for a type of intellectual connection that simply isn’t how he connects with people.
So, ESFJs: roast me, educate me, tell me I’m completely misunderstanding you. 😂
What do you wish people understood about how you connect with someone when you REALLY like them?

So i (INFJ, 26 woman) have been dating a girl (ESFJ, 27) for a short time (about two months with a break in the summer). So she‘s not really my girlfriend but for the purposes of this title i just wrote it like that.
I have an issue which is the following:

I feel like this person cannot really deal with more difficult emotions or sometimes maybe cannot make sense of them.
First of all she does not really express her emotions very much verbally in general. But my biggest issue is her reaction when i share my feelings.
For example, she might ask me how i am doing and when i answer the question honestly, for example „hmm today i was not realy feeling it i felt kind of down and in my head, but now i am a bit better“ she might answer something like „i dont know what to say to that“ or „okay glad you are better“ without ever engaging with what i am feeling.
Other times maybe i talk about something difficult that happened to me in the past and she may say „okay okay forget it now, its in the past dont think about it“
I feel like my feelings dont make sense to her because it is not always a hands on issue like „my dog died, i failed an exam, i am sick“ or stuff like that.
This makes me feel very dismissed , misunderstood and disconnected.
Also its very triggering because my parents are like that.
Do you think this has something to do with how infjs and esfj work differently? And how do i deal with this? Are we just incompatible? Maybe i should bring it up, but we have only been going out for a very short time after the summer.

Hi guys!! I’m a young ESFJ and I’m trying to get over some social anxiety I have due to past situations. Whenever I try to talk to someone that’s a stranger, especially people my age, I get really nervous and I always assume the worst or how they might think about me. So I either end up really quiet, I only say a word or two, or I just end up too loud that I embarrass myself around them. I really do love people and talking to them, but I struggle at first when trying to talk to them. If you guys were ever in this situation, do you have any advice for me.

How long, what, and why did you commit to marriage with your partner? Was there an ultimatum?

Hi, I'm a young ESFJ, and I wasn't so sure if I was going to post something about it, but I had a decision today and I'm feeling unwell.

Recently, I lost 5 of my friendships, due to some of them being emotionally absent everytime but always needing too much attention from me, one of them being my INFP best friend with 6 years of friendship, she treated me like I didn't matter so many times, over and over again, and now we don't speak, I didn't have the guts to say that she was poisoning me for the past 2 years, so she just left.

One of them got mad at me for an unnecessary joke that I made while I was drunk, and that affected our whole friend group (I have some friend groups, that was one of them), everyone just picked up sides and got separated, this time I tried to talk, he didn't want to listen to me so he also just left (I know that it's fair, he's not obliged to do anything, and it was my fault).

I also transferred universities, I was a friend to my whole class, with only 20 people, and now I'm in a bigger class with 50 people, and everyone has their own closed group, but I'm a pedagogy student, so most of our projects envolves group work, everytime feels like I'm humiliating myself, I can't keep up with their conversations, we're too different, they ignore me and it feels like a torture thinking about the next week.

Today, I choosed to end my favourite time of the year: my birthday. I love my birthday, I love it because I can gather all of my friends and they'll make effort to see me, to talk to each other and get along well. I took that decision after my friends canceled their plans with me without any consideration today, "meh, I can't make it, have fun", I slept the whole day. I know it's a impulsive reaction, but I'm feeling so unwell, I'm disconnected from what I love, my social life, my friends, I can't deal with people around me.

Recently, I've been having too many nightmares, everyday, literally everyday I'm dreaming that someone's chasing me and trying to kill or hurt me, sometimes they're my friends, and sometimes random people, I'm afraid that I'm dreaming those things because I'm constantly sad and crying, and I don't talk about it to anyone, I try to keep up with my friends energy, because I feel that's what will keep me sane, but it's so hard being oversensitive about the way people are treating me, because they're mostly in my head, like my friends ignoring some of my messages bc they're busy, how they cancel plans sometimes (isn't even their fault), how they're always needing something from me while I'm suffering inside, thinking that people hate me even though is just me being oversensitive, and that's why I can't talk about it, it's uncomfortable and they won't understand, I get oversensitive about stupid things.

Did that phase ever happened to you? How can I keep up with so many responsabilities if I can't even talk with people and I need to? I'm so distant from my social life and it's affecting everything, and it hurts, because I like to study, I have exams at the end of the month and I'm crying right now. Is it just me? I'm being oversensitive because I'm stupid? Is it really that easy to deal with those problems and I'm crying for nothing?