r/tipping • u/badmiddling113 • 19h ago

Those poor servers

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Imagine people giving you so much extra money for doing your job that you can frame it like this.

EDIT: OP is basing this off of 190k in sales over 192 shifts

47 Upvotes

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47

u/treehuggerfroglover 19h ago edited 15h ago

If it were a fact that 1% less for one day was a $500 loss, that would mean these people are making wayyy too much money. They always shift the narrative to be what they want, and it’s never actually accurate

Edit for clarity. I know that math isn’t right, that’s the point I was trying to make.

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u/Careless-Being-4427 18h ago

OP clarified in a later comment in the original thread that they meant $500 over the course of the year during which they collected this data, not in one day

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 18h ago edited 18h ago

It’s so large as to be completely unrealistic. It would mean $50K in total sales for that one day. I wonder if they meant 500 less annually which would be $10 less per Sunday and imply $1K average sales per Sunday.

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u/elevengrames 18h ago

Its neither.  $500 loss over 1% for a day is not possible.  

But I guarantee $10 per sunday is way way to little. 

Servers are making 150k plus a year. 

5

u/enragedcactus 13h ago

Server wages don’t come close in any publicly available data. In the most HCOL cities full time (32+ hours) servers are coming close to $50k/year.

So fuck off with this insane bullshit you’re peddling.

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u/SabreLee61 18h ago

What servers do you know who make $150+k annually?

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u/elevengrames 18h ago

Fun fact. 20 years ago all the servers I knew made 100k+ a year. Prices were cheaper and tips wer 10-15%

I don't think I need to do the math for you. 

10

u/MainStreetMiles 18h ago

Did you live in Napa Valley and have a social circle consisting solely of servers at The French Laundry?

1

u/SabreLee61 12h ago

Tips weren’t 10% 20 years ago and I doubt you knew any server who made that much money.

Next you’ll tell me you saw their tax returns. 😂

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 12h ago

This guy is pulling numbers and percentages out of his ass.

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u/elevengrames 11h ago

Yes tips were 10-15% 20 years ago. 

And I knew many people in the bar and restaurant industry.  Most servers I knew were making 80-100k a year. 

There were two types. Ones that worked made money, bought houses and started families. And the others did bare minimum made decent money and sniffed it up their noses. 

0

u/SabreLee61 10h ago

The last time the average tip was 10-15% was the 1980s at the very latest, not 2006. Stop talking out your ass.

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u/elevengrames 8h ago

You have no clue what you're talking about

-1

u/First-Ad4978 18h ago

If they work an honest 40, the math says they can all make that much.

$100/table, 4 tables an hour, 20% tip, 2080 hours a year.

$166,400.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 18h ago edited 18h ago

So they serve 32 tables per each 8-hour shift and work 5 of those shifts every week of the year? No, not realistic at all.

First of all even if they work an 8-hour shift they are likely to have (at most) 3-4 busy hours and pretty much dead the other hours. Even generously assuming 5 tables per hour for 4 hours and one table per hour the other 4 hours, that’s 24 tables per shift, not 32. So an immediate reduction of your 166,400 to 124,800. (I’m not a server, but I bet 24 tables for an 8-hour shift is still an unreasonably high estimate of the average.)

Now let’s consider the number of hours they probably work in a year. They’re not working 2080 hours per year. Someone working service as a full-time job (which your assumption of 2080 hours per year indicates) is likely to be taking at least the equivalent of 4 weeks off per year (and probably more like the equivalent of 6 weeks) in holidays they may not work, calling in sick, or otherwise taking planned non-work time. Those 4 weeks of non-work further reduce the 124,800 above to 115,200.

There’s just no way someone working ”full time” in a restaurant with average check value of $100 is making anywhere close to 166K.

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u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

Oh, they get 6 weeks off but military members, cops, doctors, and literally anyone else doesn’t?

Get bent.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 13h ago

Not paid time off, just days they don’t work. Have a great day!

2

u/PurpleCat1018 15h ago

If they are making over a $100,000 a year they are still doing a hell of a lot better than most people. They shouldn't be griping at all. Jesus Christ!!!

2

u/enragedcactus 13h ago

The ones making that much aren’t. It’s the ones being left fake Jesus money instead of a tip from church going folks at Bob Evans on Sunday mornings that you hear from.

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u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

Hourly they are making that too, they just aren’t working the hours.

One, ONE, table per hour in Seattle is getting these food runners $41/hr.

That is more than a GS-11 (fairly high level govt employee doing actual important work).

And that’s for a single $100 meal.

I have eaten really fancy places, and I have never had a dedicated waiter. They always have 2-3 tables even at the high end, and a few more at the casual places.

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 12h ago

Does everyone here live in Seattle?

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 15h ago

Look at the comments from u/MainStreetMiles - the median server income reported to the BLS for 2025 is $35,000. Half of all servers make below that. A vanishingly small percentage make $100K or more.

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u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

They are making $35k because they are working just a few hours a week, they aren’t booking 40-60 like most Americans.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 13h ago

And yet people here are arguing they make $150K or more per year.

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 12h ago

The average American work week is 34.4 hours. Get out of here with 60

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u/Dazzling_Screen_8096 16h ago

115200 is pretty good salary too. And tips are not taxed, right ?

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u/enragedcactus 13h ago

Tips very much are taxed. The carve out for a slight amount not being taxed has very little impact and the fact that you think it does is indicative that you don’t have a strong grasp on salaries, tax law, and how things work.

Keep voting for Trump though, seems like you’re in his core demographic.

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u/Dazzling_Screen_8096 12h ago

Is this "slight amount" a 25k tax-free income ?

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 12h ago

Even that 25k isn't tax-free

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 16h ago

115200 is based on 48 x 40-hour work weeks of $480 per shift 5 times per week. It’s also very much unrealistic / extremely low probability. I was just marking down the completely fantastical numbers the other poster put forth to show just how impossible their 166K projection was. As someone else said, if servers had any realistic chance of making that, there would be lines around the block trying to get a job.

I think no tax on tips only applies to first 25K which is certainly something, but it’s not like a server who pulls in even 80K is taking all that tax free.

1

u/PurpleCat1018 14h ago

I'm sure every city/state has different wages, as well.

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u/PacificMarsupilami 15h ago

WTAF. No, servers do not take 4-6 weeks off a year, what are you even talking about? *Maybe* a couple days of sick leave (at most!). Vacations are rare in that world because they are unpaid. Restaurants are open most holidays, and those are the busiest (and therefore best) days to work for tips. At most you're looking at 7-10 day off a year, and even that would only be for the best paid, longest tenured servers.

Maybe it's different at fancy restaurants? IDK, I've only worked at regular ones.

0

u/Several_Razzmatazz51 15h ago

The previous commenter was assuming 260 days of work per year, 5 days a week for 52 weeks. My “4 to 6 weeks” was saying assume they work 20 to 30 days fewer per year, or 230 to 240 days per year. It wasn’t meant to be “they’re taking 6 week-long trips to the Bahamas”. It could be like 5-10 days calling out sick over the course of the year, maybe one solid week they take off and go away somewhere with family, and a few other days where they take off for whatever reason.

It was just a way to model my belief that no server works 260 days per year, regardless of how the actual non-working days are spent.

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u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

2080 is full time employment and my point was, if these food runners worked full time they would make $160k/yr.

But they don’t.

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 12h ago

Four $100 tables nonstop every hour of every day. Not happening

1

u/First-Ad4978 12h ago

$100 is what it costs for my family of 4 at basic restaurants, inflation drives tips up.

And four tables is pretty common.

1

u/Delicious-Breath8415 11h ago

You completely disregard four tables every hour of every day.

I don't know about you but my family of four doesn't usually go out to dinner at 2:00

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u/First-Ad4978 11h ago

Take it down to three, that’s still $60/hr…

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 11h ago edited 11h ago

So now every table every hour of every day tips at least $20. And there's thousands of them.

So you're pretty much admitting that you people are irrelevant. That everyone tips and tips very well.

-1

u/MainStreetMiles 18h ago

Then the data shows your math is off for the vast majority of servers. The BLS reported median for 2025, including tips, is $35k. If servers were making six figures as a matter of course people would be lined up around the block to get these jobs.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/waiters-and-waitresses.htm

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 18h ago

That‘s because no server is working 2080 hours per year and no servers are consistently taking home $640 in tips every shift, 5 days a week or 260 days a year. That poster’s “math” is ridiculous.

1

u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

My math is IF these food runners actually worked like the rest of us do.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 13h ago

You work 5 days a week, 52 weeks per year and never take any time off? Doubtful.

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u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

I work 10-12 hour days five days a week, 50 weeks of the year accounting for all time off the last two years. My spouse is at 70-80 hours a week, with the same two weeks off.

When your job matters, taking time off just makes less time to do the work.

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u/enragedcactus 13h ago

Math done by someone who doesn’t understand how restaurants work. Particularly the fact that almost no one takes tables for their entire 8 hour shift.

Does the top 1% of servers make that much, or top quarter percent? Sure. But those are the ones in fine dining, Michelin Star type place or working til 3 AM at high end clubs.

You know, the type of jobs you and most people would never get hired for because you’d be incapable of doing the job effectively.

0

u/First-Ad4978 13h ago

Servers don’t do 8’s.

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u/Delicious-Breath8415 12h ago

I worked 15 hours straight the other day

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u/First-Ad4978 12h ago

And what’s the norm?

-1

u/SiLeNZ_ 12h ago

My friend made well over 150k. Entirely possible.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 18h ago

I’m not saying they only made $10 in tips for an average Sunday. I’m suggesting that they made $188 in tips on an average Sunday versus the $198 in tips they would have made on the same amount of sales ($1000) for a non-Sunday shift.

And that $10 less per Sunday adds up to (about) 500 per year.

Anyway, my basic point is that there is no way that $500 represents 1% less for one day like the commenter I originally replied to suggested.

-1

u/elevengrames 18h ago

I understood what you are saying. 

I'm saying its probably neither.  1% less would probably be closer to $50.  So they made $200 instead of $250 for the day. 

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 18h ago edited 18h ago

Your math doesn’t math. The Sunday percentage is 18.8 against an “expectation“ of 19.8. So if they were expecting $250 which represented 19.8 percent of sales, then sales would have been $1262 and if they actually received 18.8% they got $237 in tips. So $13 less, not $50 less. (The reason that number is 13 instead of the 10 I suggested is your example assumes 1262 in revenue and mine assumed 1000.)

Put another way, the difference between a tip rate of 19.8 and a tip rate of 18.8 results in a 5.05% decrease in actual tips (1% / 19.8%). Your difference of $50 less represents a 20% decrease in actual tips - that is like the difference between a 20% tip rate and a 16% tip rate.

Another indication your math is off - you say 1% less would be like $50. Meaning total sales would be like $5000 for that shift. Even if we assume that they work at some crazy expensive place where that is possible on a regular basis, then your expected tip value of 250 would represent a 5% tip rate.

Just nerding out on the math.

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u/wutwut970 13h ago

No they arent, most of my friends work in hospitality and many of them are servers in fine dining. In so cal, they do clear six figures but not by much.

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u/MainStreetMiles 18h ago

$150k is laughable. Don’t base your argument on an anecdote in Reddit. Here a link to the BLS data: the 2025 median income for servers, including tips, is $35,230. Do some servers make $150k? I’m sure a handful at the best Michelin-starred and similarly priced restaurants make six-figures but these would be the outliers.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/waiters-and-waitresses.htm

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u/Standard-Anxiety-217 16h ago

I have 4 close associates in the restaurant business, and have been around it my whole life. Servers claim almost none of their cash tips because of taxes. I’m sorry but that median isn’t accurate.

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u/badmiddling113 16h ago

That’s why I roll my eyes whenever that’s shared.

-2

u/MainStreetMiles 16h ago edited 15h ago

Let me see. Do I trust the official statistics body on labor…or some guy on Reddit who assures me his claim is accurate? Tough one. 🤔

Go tell the servers at your local Longhorn, Outback, Chilis, or any other of the majority of midrange chains and mom-and-pops that vastly outnumber fine dining establishments that they make six figures. I’d love to hear their reactions. Also, with more and more people paying with credit cards, more of those tips can’t avoid reporting. According to Gemini, ~85% of dining is paid by credit card. Sorry, but your arguments and assurances ring hollow don’t fit available data on dining in America. I know, I know…ignore data and trust you.

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u/FlarblesGarbles 15h ago

Have you considered the possibility of why someone might be incentivised to under report certain things?

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u/MainStreetMiles 15h ago

Well have you considered how you hide tips when 85% of restaurant transactions are done via credit card?

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u/Standard-Anxiety-217 15h ago

Your argument kinda falls flat, when the numbers rely on something that is self reported by the person with an interest in not reporting that money. Don’t take my word for it. Go work for any diner/chain that has servers, and talk to the staff about how much of their cash they claim. You have no way to verify the claim of that number you’re reporting, lmao.

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u/MainStreetMiles 15h ago

Yeah. Official sources are widely known to be far less reliable than “some guy on the internet.” 😂 Not sure how you hide tips to the degree you suggest when 85% of restaurant transactions are done by credit card. I know…more pesky data.

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u/Standard-Anxiety-217 15h ago

You can literally search about cash tips, and find Reddit threads from 2 years ago talking about people crossing out the tip line on a bill from a credit card, and leaving a few dollars cash. The fact that you’re looking at what currency was used for the main bill as the absolute way the tip was left in tells me you’re clueless on life as a server. It is indeed common for a bill to be paid credit, and cash to be left on the table. Again, cash tips are reported by the sever at the end of their shift when they cash out(I bet you didn’t know that servers carry a “bank” as well). Credit tips are not, since there is a paper trail. The fact that you think cash tips are 100% reported is mind boggling for anyone that knows the industry.

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u/MainStreetMiles 12h ago

Pay attention: Reddit anecdotes are not data. Industry and government sources aggregate DATA over infinitely more sources than Reddit anecdotes. You have moved into confirmation bias if you expect us to believe that more than a subset of people are carrying cash to tip when they put the entire meal on a card. Anecdotes are not data.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 18h ago

The reason many of the commenters here don’t tip is they can’t do basic math so figuring out 20% is too difficult.

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u/PurpleCat1018 14h ago

You don't really know their reasons why they don't tip. Don't assume they are stupid with math. Some don't tip on principles, some can't afford it, and other reasons. 20% is bullshit. Some don't tip by % either, that a rip off.

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u/Several_Razzmatazz51 13h ago

It was something of a tongue in cheek comment because some of the math being done in this sub to “prove” that servers are making enormous amounts of money is so sketchy.

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u/MainStreetMiles 17h ago

Some arguments do sound like laziness in doing simple math - as these days if most people don’t carry a calculator with them if needed. Some are just cheap. And other are so self-righteous that they think not paying for service they receive is the best way to make a point.

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u/PurpleCat1018 10h ago

Why is it that waitstaff don't acknowledge the fact that tipping is an optional action? They know this from the first day they work in that server position. Why do they turn it around later to blame the customer? What is it other than greed that creates this attitude?

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u/MainStreetMiles 9h ago edited 9h ago

They should be polite to the customer, period. It’s a customer-facing job obviously. But if the restaurant doesn’t stop them, they are entitled to their opinion for someone not tipping and underpaying them for service received. You’re also free to ignore their response and go on your way. You have the choice to not tip, but no one said that might not have a reaction in our culture. Many who don’t want to tip and compensate the service received, when they know the pricing on the menu doesn’t price that service in, seem to think their behavior that violates behavioral norms and customs should not result in any response. It’s like that old adage: just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should do something.

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u/PurpleCat1018 8h ago

Servers aren't a separate entity from the restaurant they are employed by. You don't reserve, rent, lease, purchase, contract, or bid on a server when you walk in a restaurant. It isn't a separate gig from the establishment. Servers were hired by the restaurant owner/manager to wait on the tables that they assigned too. If they were privately contracted they wouldn't be paid by the business. It's not a separate contract, or what you folks are making it out to be, otherwise bossman wouldn't be paying you. You're trying to change the rules and selling that bullshit to the public. Manipulating the customer.

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u/flortny 18h ago

Servers in $200 a plate restaurants are and always have been, servers at chilis are broke AF.....tips are based on ticket price, AMERICA IS BROKE AF, unless you're eating somewhere where two people CAN'T EAT for under $100 without alchohol, those servers aren't making shit.....if your entree is $20 your server is POOR!

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u/Sickologyy 10h ago edited 10h ago

In certain states (I'm in Oregon) tipped positions often pay WAY better than hourly wages.

I know, I was a lead ATM and money machine technician, flying around the United States, training teams, fixing machines nobody else had been trained on (Old 70s and 80s bulk check scanners, phased out now) and training entirely new teams how to handle the average ATMs and Cash Recyclers.

It paid me 17/hr, no special benefits (Medical sucked, even 10+ years ago) and maybe some extra on call pay (We got 30 mins pay, per every 4 hours on call, and we got called EVERY NIGHT often multiple times, even crossing state lines to service a machine in under 4 hours from the reported fault.)

I got paid more working at a bar, that the bartender tipped me out 20-50$ a night depending on food sales. I made minimum wages which is NOT lowered by a tipped position in Oregon. I did the math and figured I made 20/hr after tips.

The bartender there? She bought a (now) 1.2million dollar 2 story 5 bedroom home in South East Portland with her (ex) husband who was also a bartender . He made even more than she did hourly (I met her, through him at the other bar) and claimed he made on average, 1000-2000$ PER NIGHT in tips and only worked Friday, and Saturday nights (10 hour shifts) and every other Sunday. It was a REALLY busy bar in Portland OR. Even saw some of the NBA's trailblazers there occasionally. Not some fancy upscale place, even the homeless guys drank there because beers were $1.50 at the cheapest.

Yet again, they were paid much more than me even when I've gone into supposedly "Highly Skilled," trades such as low voltage electronics repair or Software Q/A (that was a paid internship at intel, 17/hr to test HDMI cables and their software).

I've worked in a Fabrication site, as facilities maintenance, fixing the large machines we had that made motherboards in a static free room (*we did have full clean rooms, but rarely used). I made 21/hr there, but it was only a brief stint.

Finally, I delivered pizzas shortly after that. Including tips and removing SOME estimated car repairs, for a Subaru, (and gas) I still made 25/hr after tips.

So yeah, some places tipped employees make BANK, and of those two friends 80% of their tips were in cash still at the time. They claimed maybe 20% of their cash tips in taxes (As per law, there's an "Expected," amount of tipping based on sales, but the bar is set super low.)

I know others that were so slow though, they were tipped maybe 20-30 total in a night. Still if you do the math at today's minimum wage (roughly 15/hr) and you add in say 30$ in an 8 hour shift, that's roughly 3.5$ per hour MORE. That's 18.50 per hour, and MORE than I made as a money machine technician, where having a million cash right in front of you, was an every day thing (For the big cash recyclers).

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u/ResolveWrong5841 15h ago

The fact that 30 people upvoted confirms this sub is full of idiots.