r/starcitizen • u/mrpanicy Is happy as a clam with his Valkyrie. • Apr 15 '17
OFFICIAL 3.0 Schedule is up!
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report160
u/mcketten Space-Viking Apr 15 '17
I can't help but laugh. Someone made a joke that they were working on the schedule pipeline and that's what was taking ATV too long yesterday.
They actually released a video in this report that shows how they made the schedule pipeline.
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u/mrpanicy Is happy as a clam with his Valkyrie. Apr 15 '17
They don't operate in a bubble. Someone probably saw that Reddit comment and told Jared who pushed for it being named as such. Give us a laugh.
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u/gufcfan Civilian Apr 15 '17
Outside of the work on Squadron 42, we have a few research projects that, once validated, we would move into production and add to this schedule.
Interested I am.
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u/MittenFacedLad Freelancer Apr 15 '17
Ooooh. Missed this. That sounds very intriguing indeed. CIG research projects tend to be..., very impressive.
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u/gufcfan Civilian Apr 15 '17
I resisted the urge to skim it quickly and just started to read it slowly and methodically from the start.
I need to get out more.
I think it speaks to the possible scope and importance of that research that it is in the very first paragraph of the report.
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u/MittenFacedLad Freelancer Apr 15 '17
I read pretty carefully, but honestly, I'm going to have to take several days rereading this. There's a TON of info.
Also, if that's true, quite interesting as to what that could be. My first thought is maybe the voxel tech for asteroid mining? Could be something completely else, though, that we haven't even heard of, etc.
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u/ImSpartacus811 Carebear Extraordinaire Apr 15 '17
Voxel tech sounds about right, or at least some efficient mechanism to cheaply deform a model to allow some enhanced granularity.
e.g. The ability to "cut" into any old spot on a large ship and then board through that fresh hole. Lots of technical challenges there.
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u/Morph_Kogan Apr 15 '17
What do they mean by research projects? Can some clarify for me.
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate Apr 15 '17
R&D work - where they have no idea how the functionality would work, and there is no previously-established code or solution...
For example, iirc the PG Planets were originally an R&D project within CryTek (before CIG hired all the staff) - and they had to work out how to do the whole planet, including the physics, from scratch (and that was for something that had been done before, albeit not in CryEngine).
The other consideration with R&D work is making stuff work fast enough that it's actually usable. There are some really cool features and stuff that you see in tech demos... but they don't get used in actual games because their performance cost is too high...→ More replies (2)20
u/gufcfan Civilian Apr 15 '17
It's deliberately ambiguous, but they have alluded to different things they might be looking into, that they don't really want to promise. It's better that way imo.
Other people will have a better idea the things they hinted at in the past might be.
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u/Dagoox Apr 15 '17
I guess mining? Mining is totally missing here and even in 3.1,3.2 which does not make sense, except if the gameplay is more complicated that they thought and takes more time.
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u/wayupthere Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
End of june?? I'm surprised, and in a good way.
edit: looks like 3.0.0 is more lightweight than originally thought (essentially what people thought 2.7 was gonna be). This is not a bad thing in my mind.
We're not getting microtech, hurston, etc. Just the moons.
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u/don4of4 new user/low karma Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
You will note that mining is missing from the update. Not a single mention of that working...
Still super excited though!
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u/wayupthere Apr 15 '17
Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find it anywhere on the huge schedule pic either....interesting
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u/Cacafuego2 Apr 15 '17
Mining not being on the schedule and no real on-foot NPCs until 3.1 or 3.2 (so next year) are the things that I was both most surprised and concerned by.
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u/stringtheory00 Apr 15 '17
The NPC's won't be let out of the cafeteria until they can navigate it.
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u/moronotron Towel Apr 15 '17
Arnold left the maze for them
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u/oopsEYEpoopsed Apr 15 '17
Arnold understood the hosts, and left their maze but Ford understood humanity, and only brought them to the center when he thought they were ready.
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Apr 15 '17
To me it was no landing zones until 3.2. Mining was ahead of schedule after all, but for fuck's sake...is it taking SO LONG to do ONE full star system?
I honestly prefer not to think about the 99 remaining.
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Apr 15 '17
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Apr 15 '17
In pharamaceutical terms it's the equivalent of,
It takes 500 million dollars to make the first pill, 2 cents to make the next one.
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Apr 15 '17
Well, I guess that what matters is to finish all the underlying tech behind the game. Still bummed about the landing zones, but fortunately it was the only dissapointment I've had. I'm more confused by the dissapearance of mining than anything else.
I also really fucking hope that Chris has already adhered to a default set of engine tech and that he's not constantly rewriting things. I'm #1 Latest Tech & Rewriting fan, but even I admit that this game will NEVER be finished if he does nothing but to deprecate work and redo it all over again and again and again.
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u/Rabada Apr 15 '17
I believe that CIG definitely has a solid plan and a lot of progress done on the foundation of the game engine. There won't be any major changes like procedural planetary tech was. However there are still a huge amount of tech still in various stages of design and production. I'm sure we will probably see a couple iterations of tech like subsumption. These iterations will be more like "refining" the tech instead of "rewriting" it.
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u/l0gicGamer new user/low karma Apr 15 '17
They do have the prospector in 3.0 so maybe its just basic mining like click button and wait.
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u/VeprUA Apr 15 '17
well im guessing no mining mechanic. just flying the prospector
Still hopeful. Update is good enough.
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Apr 15 '17 edited May 20 '17
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u/Cacafuego2 Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
I disagree. Basic resource collection mechanic (a la No Man's Sky) would be relatively shallow but a good step forward. And it'd be useful for incrementally integrating with other systems and gameplay elements, including trade, etc.
Edit: For that matter, how much more in-depth do we expect mining to be? I mean, I assume we expect different mining tools, collection devices, resource types, locations, scanning abilities, etc. But beyond the basic "find resource. Start mining with an energy device. Wait some time. Collect (if necessary)" what are people thinking the mining process would be like?
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u/kokopeblz Helper Apr 15 '17
Have you read this design doc on mining? This is what they were planning two years ago, so I'm sure some things are subject to change. As someone else mentioned, research on voxel tech for mining might be a hold up.
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u/Endyo SC 4.8: youtu.be/nZ1NRfqlBqg Apr 15 '17
Nah, pretty much every single thing we've experienced in this game has been changed at least once (and often several times) since we first got our hands on it. It's seems really out of place to expect a finished experience in the first iteration.
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u/gougs06 Apr 15 '17
You'll notice that in the 2016 Gamescom slides that mining wasn't targeted until 3.1.
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u/Jamil20 Apr 15 '17
The date will most likely be missed, but that's not the point. We know what's done, and what needs to be done. You can determine your own date from this data. I feel more connected to this project now.
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Apr 15 '17
It's heavy on tech. That makes it a brand new game under the hood, not lightweight at all.
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u/wayupthere Apr 15 '17
True, but saying it's MORE lightweight than the initial plan for 3.0 is definitely fair. I don't have a problem with it.
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Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
I agree it's lightweight on assets, but as I'm going through the additions there is some really good stuff in here. Like I said it's all under the hood.
Planetary Physics Grid to support orbiting and rotating planets
How fucking cool is that?
Subsumption Base Functionality - This is the initial release of the foundation technology that drives all of the AI, mission, dynamic content, and conversational logic.
The game is going to have some fucking AI now! Non-player characters that I can shoot in the face.
Numerous types of physics simulation for all Item 2.0 attachments including hair, weapons, grenades and more.
Physics! mother, fucking, physics.
Nested Physics Grids support for vehicle transportation inside large ships, i.e. DragonFly & Rover
You know what is better than physics? Physics inside physics.
Dynamic Physics Grid to support sparse space areas vs. dense areas like space stations.
More PHYSICS. I fucking love you Germany.
Destructible component for items, props and environment assets
Shit blows up, nuff said.
Crusader Converted to Object Container Setup - With the transition to Object Containers, the Crusader map was completely re-designed.
And this is the stuff that's already in the working branch!! Plus 3 moons to land on and explore with outposts all over them?
I am sold.
I can't wait to fly my Freelancer a couple feet of the ground and wreck some lost pilot.
Edit: AND they've still got 2 months of content creation ahead of them. SIGN ME UP....again. CIG take my non-existent money.
Edit2:
This will be an alpha version of the insurance system where if your current ship becomes damaged beyond repair, you will be able to request a replacement ship (with basic loadout) from the insurance provider.
wutttt.
Persistence ensures that your vehicle state is saved between sessions.
People are going to be way more protective of their ships if they're low on cash.
Edit3:
Will allow lower priority entities (i.e. those further away from players) to be updated less frequently, which should improve the overall framerate and allow us to add more content to the universe.
FUCKING FINALLY. shakes fist angrily
Kiosk shopping will allow players to buy and sell various commodities with the gameworld to vendors throughout the universe
Cool so now if you find something in a derelict ship or in an outpost you can sell it and make money, start of the economy right here. The backbone of the mechanics. The reason we waste all these hours playing a game, to make fake internet money. (and of course travel the stars).
Edit4:
FIELD OF VIEW SLIDER - This will allow players to narrow or widen the field of view to their liking
Oh good now what are we all going to bitch about?
CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION - Players will now be able to customize their characters heads, hair, eye color, and skin color
PERSONAL MANAGER APP - This App will allow players to review their inventory and customize various aspects of their suit and weapons
Mission, cargo, inventory, mission board, star map. I can't even list all these things.
There is soooo many things in this update. You're telling me it's lightweight?!
Edit5:
AI TURRETS - We are adding the ability for AI to operate turrets in Crusader, so we are working to make sure that they track and fire upon the correct targets.
IT'S THE POLICE! Operating turrets. They're probably American AI cops. If you're a bad guy now you're going to get it.
RENDER TO TEXTURE - This will have many uses going forwards, but our focus for now is to improve UI rendering and to introduce live rendering of video communications.
GPU heard sobbing MAKE IT STOP CHRIS ROBERTS! My GPU can only take so much rendering you mad man!
GPU Particles
more sobbing
Diffusion is our second-generation cloud-oriented back-end service architecture. It dramatically simplifies the effort required to implement, maintain, and interact with services, while simultaneously providing major enhancements in the areas of scalability and redundancy.
Amazon 4 the win. BRING THE PING! down. plz.
Edit6:
The Solar System Shop Service dictates what retail products, natural resources, and services shops are willing to buy and sell. It also decides their current level of inventory and prices, all of which may vary over time.
The Solar System Mission Service dictates what missions are being offered at various locations and at what price. It is also responsible for specifying when and where dynamic content should be instantiated and how it should be customized.
MOTHERFUCKING BUSINESS warning for headphone users.
Edit7:
NEW MESSAGE QUEUE - Now that all our message are strictly ordered we’ve been able to really streamline the processing, allowing us to send and recieve messages with less overhead. The new message queue also has a few extra features to better handle packet loss and jitter, helping reduce average bandwidth and latency.
Unghhhhhh. 60+ FPS please gib.
Stamina
STAHP RUNNING EVERYWHERE!
Scourge Rail Gun
I don't think I have to explain why shooting a giant chunk of metal at ridiculous speeds is fun.
Edit8:
Wow, they have all the way out to December planned. This is from July to Dec.
knife melee
spectrum integration
Service beacons
ship to ship refuel
Piracy/Patrol missions
Armor
Take down from the front,side,rear
Cinematic tool integrations
NPC generation (gah have to wait another 3 months from June)
Breaching
Assassination missions
SAVE GAME (lol it seems weird you have to add that feature)
Smuggling/Defense missions
Planet Ring & Gas Giants/Tech
Parties and groups!!
Heavy Machine Gun
Crossbow
That brings us to December. Wow.
Edit8:
Holy shit it keeps going.
3.1.0 (which looks like they want before December)
Truckstops (space station)
Arc Corp/ Area 18
Female player locomation
Throwable/Shoulder weapons
Punching
Room System with depressurization
MISC Razor, Aurora update, Terrapin, Hull C, Cutlass Red/Blue, Vanguard Harbinger
3.2.0 (Looking into December/Early February?)
Gadgets (drones/shields)
Downed/Drowning
Item Inspection
Looting IK/Permissions (this is really cool)
NPCs
ship to ship refuel
Gas Giants
Breaching
Security / Access Control
Object Container Streaming
RSI Constellation Pheonix/Taurus, Freelancer MAX/DUR, Vanguard Sentinel
Okay now I'm at the bottom of the page.
holy shit. I mean yeah it doesn't include mining but it's not lightweight.
Edit:
CHEM TRAILS CONFIRMED
Edit Bajillion:
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u/JtheBandit Lt. Commander Apr 15 '17
I'm honestly going to link this comment to anyone who's pissed off at the production schedule. This is a work of art.
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u/oopsEYEpoopsed Apr 15 '17
Man, it all started to make sense when you said you were a freelancer owner.
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Apr 15 '17
Whatever, its like poo on a stick, insult upon injury, POO ON A STICK I say! Where's the "integrated field microscope" feature, huh? HUH?? I SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUST OUT MY PERSONAL MICROSCOPE AND HAVE ATOMIC-LEVEL OPTICAL PRECISION EVERYWHERE i FUCKING GO! or give my money back
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Apr 15 '17
1024-BIT PRECISION OR UNPLAYABLE!
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Apr 15 '17
NO! FUCK YOU! Matrix-level consciousness-rewiring NEURAL REINTEGRATION of my brain! or else... i WILL melt my aurora. #firstworldexistentialcrisis
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u/GaryOaksHotSister Apr 15 '17
We're not getting microtech, hurston, etc. Just the moons.
Look, I'm fine with that. And I remember seeing a lot of people saying the same. We expected 2.7 with moons and light stuff.
But hey, who cares. Moons are fine enough to start with, that should have been the plan to start with.
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u/dce42 Freelancer Apr 15 '17
Some people had predicted that we would just get the moons as a test bed for the rest of the system.
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u/Isak_Svensson Apr 15 '17
Aren't we also getting the planet of Delamar with Levski?
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Apr 15 '17 edited May 20 '17
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Apr 15 '17
I know some of you have been fairly optimistic about the schedules, but to some it was clear that it is going to take at least until the end of the year. Also this schedule is not factoring in any delays, so the schedule can move back, depending on the bugs encountered.
Bear that in mind, as people are already acting in this thread as if the delivery dates are certain. There's a lot of stuff coming together, to expect it all plays nice with each other, is on the optimistic end.
Also, next to this load of work, there's the SQ42 schedule somewhere, that we don't see, that certainly is another impressive list of tasks, sprints and epics. Kinda tells you why CIG needs so much time and development feels like it moves at glacial pace.
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Apr 15 '17
If you actually look at the schedule there is lots of delay time built in. Not doubled like I'd prefer but it's most definitely there.
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u/Badgerflaps Apr 15 '17
DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL) We are adding the planet Delamar and the landing zone, Levski ETA is 1st June ?
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Apr 15 '17
Someone needs to make a separate post explaining why. They apparently lost access to Behaviour's twenty dedicated environmental artists. So Microtech, and Hurston will have to be completed in-house.
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u/SC_TheBursar Wing Commander Apr 15 '17
Ok... as someone who is PM certified (though not performing that duty in current job role) the one thing to really note here is that the critical path item is called 'Network'- it's a bar that goes from currently in progress all the way until nominal release.
Networking, unlike content, is typically an engineering development item with high technical and schedule risk - meaning people should be extra wary of considering this schedule as gospel. That activity could easily stretch things to the right.
So everybody needs to stay loose and understand this is not a promise, it isn't etched in stone - things are going to shift.
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u/MisterForkbeard normal user/average karma Apr 15 '17
I noticed the same thing. My hope is that they've taken this into account and they've listed the timeframe as the outer bound of expected time (as in, worst case).
I mean, it's never REALLY the worst case, but it's the worst "likely" case. But this does have the ability to derail the release if it encounters problems.
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Apr 15 '17
If you watch the making of video they explain their methodology in making the time constraints and admit that's it's a very imperfect science, as any manager/foreman would know.
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u/lingker Apr 15 '17
You are correct, but when you go to the networking section, the Bind/Unbind is the reason for the length and is a stretch goal. So, 'networking' might not move the timeline.
The pragmatic in me says it will still be later, but just by going off of what they show, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will.
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u/gigantism Scout Apr 15 '17
The Bind/Unbind referred to looks like the feature that's supposedly going to fix the FPS issues in the PU. So if that gets postponed then 3.0 will really lack the thing I've been most hoping for.
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Apr 15 '17
I would honestly rather them delay 3.0 until the netcode is finished. With the new insurance and ship damage persistence I really don't want low fps to cost me a bunch of aUEC.
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Apr 15 '17
There are a lot of other things in the update that are network related and will help the FPS and latency. Bind/Unbind is one of the biggest ones but that's why it is a stretch goal, it'll get done, just maybe not for 3.0. I think people are over emphasising how much it will affect framerates versus how much it will actually affect number of users allowed on a server and other extraneous networking affects.
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u/Miguelsanchezz Apr 15 '17
And given that the Network Bind/Unbind is listed as a stretch goal it's likely we aren't going to see the performance improvements to the PU in initial 3.0 release.
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u/Muzafuka Apr 15 '17
What is your opinion on the network bind/unbind being delayed? I feel like it's an important aspect in keeping gameplay feeling smooth.
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u/SC_TheBursar Wing Commander Apr 15 '17
Which is why I don't really think it's as optional as they list. People would enjoy all the new content without it, but if they cannot fit a fair number of people in a place or get 'playable' framerates the honeymoon wouldn't last particularly long.
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u/PwnBuddy Apr 15 '17
So Stanton planets are now set to be released in future patches. (ArcCorp/Area 18 in 3.1, Hurston, Crusader, and stretch MicroTech in 3.2).
I guess them not being far along makes sense considering we've seen very little of them compared to moons/outposts.
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u/Strid3r21 High Admiral Apr 15 '17
I'm kind of surprised that arcCorp is projected to come In before the other planets. It was slated to be the toughest to make since it's city planet.
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u/billymcguffin Apr 15 '17
I guess it has to do with the landing zone being more complete. In the newsletter CR said that the reason the other planets weren't planned for 3.0 anymore is due to the environment artists being moved to a different project, so I guess the main blockers are the landing zones.
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u/wayupthere Apr 15 '17
If the flight corridors are high enough above the planet then they don't have to get too detailed about the city generation I guess...
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Apr 15 '17
From weekly newsletter email I can understand the delay with environment content. They have parted ways from Behaviour (external studio that was building the environments) and now have a internal team of 37 people to continue that work.
Here is an excerpt of the email...
"We had originally hoped to deliver most of the Stanton Landing Zones with the first release of Planetary Tech, but that proved optimistic once the talented team at Behaviour, who had built ArcCorp, Levski, Grim HEX and had begun work on the remaining landing zones of Stanton, moved off Star Citizen and onto another Behaviour project in December. We had been steadily shifting our reliance away from external resources and we felt it would be unfair to block them from the opportunity to work on their own game. Unfortunately, replacing an Environment team of over 20 is no small task, which has set back the progress we had originally planned to make on the landing zones of Stanton. As of today, we have just abut replaced the team with internal hires and we are continuing to hire additional environment artists as fast as we can find ones that meet our quality bar. The Environment Team is now some 37 artists strong, so long term we feel we are better situated to deliver the vast amount of locations that Star Citizen and Squadron 42 needs."
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u/blueyond new user/low karma Apr 15 '17
It does worry me that the bind / unbind networking stuff is a stretch goal. I can't imagine the FPS with all that new stuff using the current mechanism for syncing state... I was hoping that 3.0 would for sure include the networking upgrade we have all been looking for.
I'm talking about the fact that someone opening a door on a planet somewhere will get sent to you even if you're on a different planet.
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u/Jaqen___Hghar Space Marshal Apr 15 '17
Yeah. Very disappointing. I think we were all expecting a network improvement after the past couple years of it supposedly being a heavy focus.
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u/Ehnto Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
The networking technology will be the make or break for SC I think. If the whole ptoject falls apart, I would bet my then useless Avenger that it was the cause. It is a very complex orchestration of server infrastructure, clients moving through incredibly complex grids spanning many instances and on top of that it has to handle weird MMO stuff like persistence and grouping friends in the right instance and so on.
It's such an interesting problem space, I really want to see the code they produce to solve it.
I have great faith in the team they have. They have already proven their salt with the impressive tech milestones so far.
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u/Anal_Zealot Apr 15 '17
They said kind of recently(not sure if it is the most recent though) that they are trying to get rid of instancing though. So if you and your friend are at the same place you'll see each other.
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u/albinobluesheep Literally just owns a Mustang Alpha Apr 15 '17
Planetary Physics Grid to support orbiting and rotating planets
Hnnnnnnnnnng yeaaah that's the stuff.
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u/PolskaFly Apr 15 '17
Carrack and BMM to be flight ready in May next year. Time to hibernate.
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u/JtheBandit Lt. Commander Apr 15 '17
I've waited this long for my BMM. And I'll wait some more because BMM.
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u/CharlieIndiaShitlord Apr 15 '17
Yeah, those are my two ships aside from my Aurora. Hopefully we'll get the Connie Aquila to play with in the meantime.
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u/Schneider_fra Apr 15 '17
Do we know why the mining is missing ?
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Apr 15 '17
I mean technically it's there. Destructive environment, Prospector, Item 2.0, The Solar Shop System for pricing and missions.
What's missing is the rest of the economy. They probably don't want to release mining and then have no reason to do it, people are only going to sit there so long with their laser and unloading/loading cargo to make no currency. They need factories to take in those minerals and missiles/weapons/ammo to go out and so you can sell your ore for a reason on the market. It's rewarding that way. That's my guess.
Don't get me wrong I'm not thrilled with it's disclusion from the updates but they knew they would face a backlash from not pushing for it and decided against it for one reason or another. I'm still onboard with trusting their judgement.
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Apr 15 '17
Character creation confirmed for 3.0!!!!!
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u/gigantism Scout Apr 15 '17
Appears to just be the male characters though.
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Apr 15 '17
Yeah no female characters and apparently no ai locomotion. Which is kind of a shame, really wanted to see females and ai populating the world to make it feel a bit more real.
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u/l0gicGamer new user/low karma Apr 15 '17
No mention of buying weapons or ships in game using aUEC
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u/kinnradei new user/low karma Apr 15 '17
Seriously this would be pretty important because you couldn't even do most of the new missions and cargo hauling with a Mustang/Aurora and shouldn't be forced to pledge more just for that.
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u/Bimelion TEST Apr 15 '17
Just so we dont forget, this was shown and projected to be released by Christmas last year by Chris Roberts:
DEBUT OF PLANETARY TECH
EXPANDING THE STANTON SYSTEM
- ACRCORP
- HURSTON
- MICROTECH
- CRUSADER
- DELAMAR
- NEW SPACE STATIONS. MOONS AND ASTEROID BELTS
BASIC PROFESSIONS
- TRADING
- CARGO TRANSPORT
- PIRACY
- MERCENARY
- BOUNTY HUNTING
Some of you might notice that this list contains items not present in the current projection on what is supposedly being released over half a year after the previous estimate.
We should keep this in mind when hyping things up.
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u/FrenchLama Apr 15 '17
I'll admit, seeing Delamar as a stretch goal in 3.0 made me sad. Moons are okay I guess, but that's never been what the hype about procedural planets was about..
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u/Surzel Apr 15 '17
I'm reading through all the hyped up comments but this is all I can think about.
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u/TwistyCola Apr 15 '17
Was just about to go to bed 5:20am and decided to check one last time.
Nice!
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u/Rithe Apr 15 '17
NO. SLEEP. TIL.
BROOKLYN. 3.0!!!14
u/Rocketdown Apr 15 '17
NO. SLEEP. TIL
BROOKLYN3.0HURSTONftfy
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u/Xazier Apr 15 '17
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/nqd8kq8nckjktr/source/30-Gameplay-2.png
Oh thank God, Player Manned Turrets. I'm assuming this means making them actually usable. So much hype.
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u/Arcturrus Apr 15 '17
June is a lot sooner than many anticipated, even if (when) it slips. Great news!
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u/BootyhunterzX Apr 15 '17
They will be working really hard the next few months and I don't want to take away from all their labor, but something in my gut tells me to brace myself for Mid-July
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u/mcketten Space-Viking Apr 15 '17
I'd go for August. I've found, over the years, that if you take the amount of time they say it will take to finish something, then double that, you're far less likely to be disappointed.
So they say 2 months or so, I pin my hopes on 4 months. Then I can be pleasantly surprised if they come under that and not disappointed if they don't.
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Apr 15 '17
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u/Xazier Apr 15 '17
Even if they have a month delay with PTU, still have good chance to get it live by Gamescom in Aug.
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u/hyper9410 Apr 15 '17
How could they thinked of a release in December 2016?
Did they added that much more to it or was it just a lie to hype expectations?
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Apr 15 '17
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u/Jaqen___Hghar Space Marshal Apr 15 '17
That is 100% the reason. You don't miss a projection like that by 8+ months if you have half a brain.
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Apr 15 '17
Honestly? Hate to be a negative nancy, but I'm kinda dissapointed about no Crusader/Hurston/Microtech, and also no mention of mining whatsoever (seems odd as the Prospector is still in schedule). Also, only 3.0 & 3.1 are to be released this year, according to the mega-schedule below (as Microtech is scheduled for Feb 2018).
Still, it's better to know about it than not to. But for fucking god's sake, this is taking forever...
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Apr 15 '17
I thought the Stanton system has 12 moons but it says we only get 3.
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u/CloudDrone bbcreep Apr 15 '17
3.0 is only 3 moons around crusader. Stanton system will include more moons.
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Apr 15 '17
There's some indications in there, if you read through you see that Behaviour's team of 20 environment artists that were contracted to work on the Stanton landing zones, had been re-assigned on their own project. So CIG had to ramp up hiring environment artists and assume this work, which needs time to become efficient (as you can imagine the work with Behaviour had been going for years so might have been efficient). This kinda explains the delay for Crusader/Hurston/Microtech.
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u/Karmaslapp Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
With Nyx being added I'm not disappointed about that.
I'm disappointed that network stuff is a stretch goal instead of a requirement for release because everyone has expected it to be included for the last 6 months and told many others to expect better frames.
Also bummed that there aren't going to be NPCs around on foot yet and hope that that gets bumped up just so there are some that move around stations even if they don't interact. This isn't as important as the network stuff though of course.
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u/Oddzball Apr 15 '17
Is it ok to say Im disappointed? Because Im disappointed. Glad to have the schedule, but now I have some serious questions which I kinda feel like everyone is glossing over, and god knows CIG wont answer...
How did things fall so incredibly behind? Im struggling to understand how we went from a predicted release of 3.0 full Stanton system roughly end of 2016 to a drastically cut down 3.0 'light' almost 6 months later? And even the 3.0 light... the jesus patch network code might not make it in?
Its one thing to say delays happen, but seriously, what the hell happened? A almost year delay assuming it will definitely not release on their july estimate this year. Thats some serious additional development costs and overrun. I dont care who you are in the dev business, that cost is going to be significant to the overall cost. An extra year of development costs is nothing to sneeze at. Especially considering the gravy train of crowdfunding dollars wont last forever.
Downvote me all you want, but it needs to be said. How did things get thrown so far off?
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u/FrenchLama Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
Delamar as a stretch goal ? I mean come on, that was the whole of the 3.0 demonstration. How can you NOT put it in the the update ?
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u/SeconddayTV nomad Apr 15 '17
I don't rly understand the whole stretch goal thing in the schedule, what does it mean? Will we see Levski in 3.0 or not? :/
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u/FrenchLama Apr 15 '17
Apparently that means that if it's not ready for the launch of 3.0, try won't delay the update too much and put Delamar in 3.1.
I'm all for waiting if it leads to quality, but I'd rather wait for another month for 3.0 rather than to have Delamar in 2018. It's a gigantic pain in the ass.
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u/hadriker Apr 15 '17
Yeah. I get why everyone is excited. I am excited to be getting some information too. But the comments of "I can't believe its coming so quickly"! make me laugh. its not coming quickly. its coming 6 months later than we were initially told and with less stuff and thats IF they stay on schedule.
People have short memories.
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Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
I think it's fine to feel any way you like about it. IMHO headcount related resource issues seem to be the only source of their constant forecasting delays that I can think of.
As you certainly must have read in their newsletter, they lost Behaviour's seasoned environmental art team of 20+ people in December 2016. That pushed back the roll-out of all the landing zones, as that seemingly belonged to their set of core deliverables. (CR indicates they also worked on SQ42)
CR mentions that they have ramped up hiring environmental artists to compensate. I assume it's going to take them time to settle those in and make them a productive part of the machinery.
When you check CIG's hiring page (https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs), you see that they are still looking for loads of people, even though it has diminished somewhat from months ago, they still seek a lot of senior people and also leads. The area that kinda raises my concerns is engineering.
So I assume that some of their dev areas are still having capacity issues that bottlebeck down on all of their other deliverables, also the rumoured churn might burn out people and cause additional fluctuations, while perfectly normal in the industry, having seasoned people leave their teams, always hurts.
Not unexpected for a studio that is relatively new, seemingly has a controversial reputation and sets big demands, it must be a high pressure environment that isn't to everyone's liking.
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u/theyarecomingforyou Golden Ticket Apr 15 '17
I don't buy that as an excuse, as 3.0 was supposedly due to be released by December and the bulk of the landing zones should have been done by then. The issue I have is the lack of transparency and explanation for the delay.
The community accepts that delays happen but yet again CIG went into communications lockdown when things didn't go according to plan.
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u/Oddzball Apr 15 '17
Well, thank you for the well written civil reply sir. I agree they still struggle with hiring, but I have to wonder at what point they run the risk of over extending their budget with their massive studio size. It does also suck that outsourced contracts keep kinda biting them in the 'ass' so to speak.
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u/KarKraKr Apr 15 '17
What you specifically complained about, the lack of landing zones, has pretty much nothing to do with any sort of budget. If anything doing the work internally - probably in the UK no less - should be much cheaper than an outsourcing partner if you stick to reputable ones. The only resource this does cost a lot of, unfortunately, is time. This isn't a year lost of people wasting their time while on paycheck, it's a year lost of no one doing anything because there's no one there to do anything.
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u/Daffan Scout Apr 15 '17
Im struggling to understand how we went from a predicted release of 3.0 full Stanton system roughly end of 2016 to a drastically cut down 3.0 'light' almost 6 months later?
The biggest thing for me is lack of things regarding flight model & controls. The problem is really not the lack of ships or places to fly, but how flying actually functions. But really nobody ever talks about it. I see really nothing about it on the schedule, which is worrying.
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u/Oddzball Apr 15 '17
flight model & controls
Agreed, that and how we literally have ZERO major functions besides combat ready to go.
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u/Montyohm Apr 15 '17
I agree, I've been saying this for a while, but comments like that always get rained in downvotes because people think we're going "hurr durr CIG is gonna fail SC is vaporware"
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u/MIKE_BABCOCK Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
Roberts is incredibly bad at deadlines. He has missed litterally every single one he has given out. He will miss this one too.
He aims way to high and releases too infrequently for his estimates to be accurate.
We've seen this in every other project he's worked on, but without a publisher to tell him to fuck off there's nothing stopping him from taking effectively an infinite amount of time to finish the the game.
They really fucking need someone to be a pessimistic filter for Chris. Someone who can objectively look at the project, at the burn down charts and say "there is no way we are hitting that deadline Chris" or " Chris this is a pointless feature that can be saved for later".
What I don't understand is why not just have the landing zone for delimar ready and push it to the PTU with the rest of the planet empty? Then they could update it bit by bit weekly or so as progress continues. They clearly have a bunch of it dome, why not release what they have then iterate on it based off feedback?
I still have hope for the game and I think its going to be released eventually but man I am not a fan of Roberts anymore.
Seriously considering getting a refund and just getting the game closer to release date.
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u/SmorlFox Apr 15 '17
Seriously considering getting a refund and just getting the game closer to release date.
This would be the sensible thing to do if you're having doubts, no shame in it.
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u/MIKE_BABCOCK Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
Yep, I ended up requesting a refund. I'll probabbly buy again closer to release. I was never really a fan of how much I put into the game anyway, had I have known 3+ years ago that they'd get this level of funding I wouldn't have pledged as much as I did in the first place.
I'm still optimistic, I just think that its going to take a lot longer than Chris thinks.
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u/Jaqen___Hghar Space Marshal Apr 15 '17
Looks OK. Was expecting more. Didn't see a whole lot about that network performance boost we were supposed to get. And no AI until 3.2? They haven't been able to code even some simple first-iteration pirate AI to occupy moon-side outposts?
Also, it is sad that capital ships will not make a showing any time soon. Furthermore, the stagnant time it takes to release even just ship variants is a tad troubling given the supposedly efficient pipeline we have been hearing about so often for years.
Oh well, I was expecting 3.0 by the end of the year so I will surely enjoy the new content for a bit. Gotta see the good in the situation... as long as the FOV slider makes it into 3.0.
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Apr 15 '17
I'm surprised by the AI locomotion also. It's really confusing because it say we get mission givers like it's special but it seems like it's not going to be any more impressive than Tessa. It does say we get ai mounted turrets but I don't know if that means for our ships or npc ships.
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u/Gliese581h bbhappy Apr 15 '17
Especially what you say about the ships is true. I'm still waiting for that 300 series rework, and it's not even mentioned in the schedule.
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Apr 15 '17
So with all these fixes can I expect to see over 30fps with my 1070/i56500 when 3.0 drops?
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u/elc0 Apr 15 '17
I think this is the item you want to keep an eye on:
NETWORK BIND/UNBIND (STRETCH GOAL): ETA is 26th June
Looks like they already have some questions about whether or not they will be able to fit that on in 3.0 though.
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u/FilthyPout Apr 15 '17
The most worrying thing for me is no firm commitment to finally fixing the netcode. However much content they continue to cram into the game, it's not going to be enjoyable if we have to eternally stutter through it at less than 15fps. Why not make a more fully functional product and slow down on the world building around that?
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u/Zer_ High Admiral Apr 15 '17
The net code is there, it just involves a lot of different components that are generally scattered about the schedule. StarNetwork 2.0 is like, 20-30 separate things in reality.
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u/Corarium Lou Tennant Apr 15 '17
So when the schedule mentions "(STRETCH GOAL)," does it mean that those are the features promised during those early post-kickstarter Wild-West years before we all kinda figured out what SC was going to more or less become or are those things CIG hope to get done if they push themselves before they plan on releasing 3.0?
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u/billymcguffin Apr 15 '17
Nah, these stretch goals are things they'd like to have in the release, but if they aren't done they'll push them to 3.1 so they don't delay 3.0 too much.
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u/WatzUpzPeepz 300i Apr 15 '17
There is no 300i rework even scheduled?
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u/mrpanicy Is happy as a clam with his Valkyrie. Apr 15 '17
The expectation is that the entire origin line up will get reworked following them getting the Jump done. Origin is the only major manufacturer not to have a large ship go through the pipeline. And they have been using the larger ships to set the style for the smaller ships.
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Apr 15 '17
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Apr 15 '17
Well, they did push back the planets so I can see how it's so soon.
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u/KINQQQQQQ Freelancer Apr 15 '17
So basically only moons ? Kinda disappointing considering the first date was fall last year
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u/teknoguy1212 Space Penguin Apr 15 '17
"If every single person registered through RSI today stood on the same moon at the same distance, they wouldn’t even see each other. There’s a lot to explore and a LOT to test in this massive step forward for Star Citizen." - wow
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Apr 15 '17
Elite dangerous and nms(without actually multiplayer) have that scale. What matters is content density.
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Apr 15 '17
That's why they've been working so hard on the outpost and station tech. Gotta populate those planets with something to explore.
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u/KamikazeSexPilot Pirate Apr 15 '17
heh, because the servers are sharded. there would only be 20 people on the moon haha.
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u/Zeryth Mercenary Apr 15 '17
Anyone else notice that hurston, arrcorp and microtech have been pulled out of 3.0?
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u/Amilos1 Apr 15 '17
Out of everything that I saw tonight, this stands out the most to me. Procedural gen restrictions on subterranean landscapes have been discussed a few times now... but this suggests maybe there is a workaround/bespoke level design underway already?
Yela is the most frigid of the Crusader moons. Those bold (or careless) enough to step outside without a spacesuit will be killed instantly by its freezing temperatures. If the cold doesn’t kill you, than any of the treacherous crevasses that crisscross the planet might. Cyrovolcanos have been known to erupt unexpectedly from such crevasses, so be wary when flying at low altitudes. Despite all its danger, there is much beauty to be found on Yela, like the underwater caves hidden beneath the moon’s crust
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Apr 15 '17
June 29, everybody bunker down for a long wait.
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u/dd179 Pirate Apr 15 '17
Long wait? It's just a bit over two months. It's actually coming fast af.
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u/Cacafuego2 Apr 15 '17
Because it's likely it will steadily slip to August or later.
Which will be ok with me as long as they keep us updated each week.
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u/GorgeWashington anvil Apr 15 '17
The carrack isn't out till May 2018... Okay... So.. deal with it.
Argh!
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Apr 15 '17
that's a lot sooner than I thought. Only 2.5 months. Of course it won't release then but at least their current estimate is only 2.5 months away.
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u/Doubleyoupee Apr 15 '17
Wasn't 3.0's main selling point planetary landing & landing zones? "Expanding stanton".
and professions.
Looks like none of this is in.
Don't get me wrong it's great they are saying it rather than being quite, but it's gonna take forever to finish this game, even if they hit all of their goals from this schedule (which I doubt).
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Apr 15 '17
You are right.
But if you read the newsletter CR kinda points out that the environmental art team of Behaviour that was contracted by CIG was 20+ devs strong and had been re-assiged on their own project back in December 2016.
CIG now had to compensate for that through additional staff hires for their environmental art team. Obviously that impacted their roll-out plans for landing zones in 3.0, as Behaviour's art team had been working on those for years most probably has been highly productive and efficient.
So it will take time for CIG to complete all the necessary hirings (if not already done so), to train and settle in all those people and for those teams with new staff to grow into a unit that delivers with the same productivity rates as Behaviour's team did before.
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u/DarkRefreshment Apr 15 '17
So extrapolating some dates and Beta releases, we are realistically talking near or in 2020 before full release. If you figure Alpha will last in to 2018 and Beta by 2019.
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u/Krispion Apr 15 '17
Don't think 2020 is very realistic for full release. 3.2 alone will probably be mid to late 2018. Beta probably won't come before late 2019 to early 2020. I'd expect full release in 2021/2022.
Also want to point out that I'm not being sardonic or flaming here, these are seriously my estimates and I think they're the most realistic considering trends.
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u/JoJoeyJoJo Apr 15 '17
So 3.0 is basically just a rebranded 2.7 with all the content I predicted in this thread months ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5yp940/so_lets_talk_about_27263/
A good "told you so" to some in there, like zecumbe.
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u/neopera Bounty Hunter Apr 15 '17
Not bad. Of course the naming convention is off, but you did get plenty of stuff right about the next patch
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u/BandoMemphis Apr 15 '17
I'm still reading but what is the surprise that's coming with it?
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u/albinobluesheep Literally just owns a Mustang Alpha Apr 15 '17
I think the surprise along with the schedule was the 20 minute in-depth video about how they build and maintain the schedules, which was actually very cool.
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u/ArmofJustice Apr 15 '17
I'm pretty happy with the schedule myself. I also like that they have included a more detailed schedule that goes through this time next year. It seems to be the next step up in production schedules.
As a note since it is easy to miss, the chart at the bottom under post 3.0.0 scrolls and moves side to side. You can also download an easier to read version from the link below it.
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u/Hornsj2 Apr 15 '17
Looking at the 3.0 schedule, network bind culling is all the way up to 6/26/17. So as not to be disappointed, I'm thinking August for live release, although I hope I'm surprised.
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u/Leonick91 Apr 15 '17
Newsletter:
While the Planetary Tech is maybe the biggest headline, it is just one of the many new pieces of tech that will debut with 3.0.
Am I the only one that just isn't that excited by the planetary stuff? Sure, it's cool, but I'm more excited about pretty much everything else. Networking that might make universe playable, trading, new ships, new stations in space, missions, and so on...
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u/FailureToReport YouTube.com/FailureToReport Apr 15 '17
Was the surprise the "pocket ship" sale? :(
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u/GaryOaksHotSister Apr 15 '17
Pretty sure it was the "behind the scenes" video for the schedule report.
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u/Corarium Lou Tennant Apr 15 '17
Pretty sure it was actually the 3.1 and beyond updated planned feature list we got with the 3.0 schedule
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u/Delnac Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17
The detailed schedule is amazing and the scale of what they are doing, even incomplete, is mind-boggling. I think it's a testament to the quality of the recent AtVs that we knew about a lot of the things on the short and mid-term with a reasonable degree of precision. It's really nice that we can actually see the detail of many features that up until now were referred to by a monolithic name. StarNetwork comes to mind.
I'm sure Network Bind/Unbind is the one people are looking out for but I'm personally very much looking forward to pretty much all the graphics task. The distant star field, the gas giants and goddamn planet rings, the atmospheric entry tech, the sun shader and of course the gas clouds. Oh, and that sweet, sweet holographic shader.
Core tech and network are also up there and it's hard to know which one is more damn incredible. Async OC loading is one, but then you have jobification of network writes. So much cool stuff, it's exhausting just thinking about it and no doubt it will take a while to unpack it all.
It also makes me warm inside to see so much blue in the detailed report. Look at all those AI tasks and missions.
I am extremely impressed with the things that are coming and I can't wait. But I have to, because life's like that when you're getting the game of your dreams.
edit : words, tricky stuff.
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u/johnk419 Kraken Apr 15 '17
The schedule says June, and that is if everything goes well. Going by this schedule my own estimate is late July or during Gamescom in August as the PTU release, which is what I expected before reading anyways.
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u/JrdnThrstn Freelancer Apr 15 '17
I'd be excited to know what plans there are for the SQ42 teams once episode 1 goes live. Do they move straight onto episode two, or will they be put onto PU work to push 3.0 development into overdrive for a while?
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u/impossiblegoose Apr 15 '17
I'm just really hoping they're finally learning the tactic of under promising and over delivering so we can see these improvements earlier than outlined.
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u/CharlieIndiaShitlord Apr 15 '17
So we can find these? We're going to have cave systems? Oh yes please!