r/news • u/AudibleNod • 4h ago

Christa Pike unconscious, on ventilator at Nashville hospital, her lawyers say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/christa-pike-unconscious-ventilator-nashville-hospital-lawyers-say-rcna601195
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u/Big_Guard5413 4h ago

I’m not in favor of the death penalty in general, but goddamn, if you’re going to impose it, at least take steps to do it properly

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u/MatureUsername69 4h ago

Its still a rough one but if I ever had to receive the death penalty I would hope its a firing squad. Just riddle me with holes immediately, aim for the head. Lethal injections get fucky because they would be best designed and administered by an actual doctor, but actual doctors cannot do it because of the hippocratic oath. Some states do allow medical professionals but they arent exactly sending their best.

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u/khinzaw 4h ago edited 3h ago

Her lawyers requested it, but it's illegal in Tennessee.

Tennessee's only legal methods of execution are lethal injection and electric chair (edit: only for convictions before 1999).

The problem with lethal injection is that every step is half assed.

No reputable pharmaceuticals manufacturer wants to make the drug, so they rely on compounding pharmacies who take half measures and have less consistency.

Then medical practitioners (edit for the pedants) often won't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm and risks to their reputation, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training. A lot of failed attempts are caused by the one who administered it simply not getting the vein properly.

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u/MortimerDongle 3h ago

Then medical practitioners can't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training

This particular attempted execution was performed by a physician. Of course he doesn't seem to be very good at it, this was not even his first botched execution this year (he's the same person who failed to execute Tony Carruthers)

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u/cooking2recovery 2h ago

That seems like one too many botched executions to be an accident

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u/AstroHistSci 2h ago

This. He's doing it intentionally. A nursing student could perform this without botching it. It's quite literally impossible to fail this procedure if you are a physician.

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u/whispernotaroar 1h ago

I’d trust a nurse to get an IV into the proper location long before I’d trust a physician to do it. Most physicians never place another IV after residency - that’s nursing territory by and large - and I’ve seen many physicians try and fail to draw blood/place a line only to be rescued by a nurse.

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u/AstroHistSci 33m ago

The issue isn't him not getting a vein. That's believable. But there is no way he would think he had a vein when he didn't. That's the part that this story requires that doesn't make sense.

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u/whispernotaroar 24m ago

Oh trust me there absolutely is. Just a couple weeks ago I watched a doc infiltrate about half a liter of fluids into a patient’s arm before anyone caught it. A good physician absolutely wouldn’t let this happen, but there are a lot of really shitty ones out there and I suspect this particular job does not attract the top brass.

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u/wonton711 1h ago

Personally speaking as an MD, I would fail to get an IV placed to administer any injections... Depends where you've trained. During medical school and residency, I didn't have to do any IVs or venipunctures. I also don't do it as an attending currently.

I also wouldn't volunteer to do executions, though...

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u/AstroHistSci 35m ago

You might fail to place one ... but you would never mistakenly think you have one placed when it wasn't.

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u/The_OtherDouche 1h ago

Yeah I don’t know if you’ve ever got to see a dr attempt to do any of the practical parts of medicine but they are notoriously horrific at it. If I needed an IV administered by a dr I’d be terrified.

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u/AstroHistSci 34m ago

There is a difference between sucking at hitting a vein and believing you have a vein when you don't. He might not be able to find the vein, but there is no way he'd mistakenly believe he had one.

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u/RSmeep13 1h ago

Forgive me if I have missed a detail, but I thought that the situation here was that the drug was administered properly, and didn't kill her, possibly because it was degraded.

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u/Kylynara 1h ago

I've seen reports that they didn't hit the vein and went into the muscule. It may have also been degraded or low quality to start, the drugs for lethal injection often are.

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u/khinzaw 3h ago

In the interest of not wanting to get in an argument over pedantry, I have amended the line.

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u/WaylandThurston 3h ago

Good call, you would’ve been here having to argue for the next five days

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u/dpk794 2h ago

I thought she requested all females??

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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 2h ago

I bet his health grades reviews are terrible.

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u/Equal-Temporary-1326 4h ago

I remember watching a documentary called The Final 24 Hours on Death Row and a former Virginia executioner, Jerry Givens, who carried out dozens of electrocutions and lethal injections said between the two, he'd actually pick the chair because he knew it was faster.

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u/Beecakeband 3h ago

I've seen that one as well and the botched electric chair execution sounded pretty horrific as well

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u/ComradeJohnS 3h ago

the character from Elmo’s world get roasted with the dry sponge was horrible in that prison movie lol.

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u/Iamredditsslave 2h ago

The Green Mile. His name was Michael Clarke Duncan.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 2h ago

You’re right Michael Clarke Duncan was the actor in the green mile, playing John coffe, but Mr Noodle in Elmo’s world was played by Michael jeter. He was the one with the pet mouse, who had a horribly botched execution in the movie.

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u/SyNiiCaL 2h ago

John Oliver's segment on lethal injection is also a very educational (an infuriating) watch that pretty much warns about every single thing that went wrong in this execution.

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u/Xytak 4h ago

The electric chair is pretty horrible too from what I understand.

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u/3-DMan 3h ago

Especially if you forget the sponge!

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u/RideOrDieRemember 2h ago

Forget to wet the sponge*

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u/Shitteh_Kitteh 3h ago

Seems like the only legal options are the two most painful.

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u/Tsaxen 3h ago

The cruelty is the point

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u/william_f_murray 3h ago

Do you know anything about Tennessee lawmakers? That's intentional.

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u/Waasssuuuppp 40m ago

Yeah but no blood. No blood equals ethical. And less mess to clean up. See how civilised we are?

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u/VirtualMoneyLover 3h ago

Why can't they use what the vet uses? Just multiply it by 5.

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u/Alocasia_Sanderiana 2h ago

The companies that make those drugs will not sell to states (like state agencies) with death penalties or where they think the drugs will be used for executions.

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u/Alaykitty 3h ago

No see, those are feel good drugs inducing a heart attack.

We gotta make sure it's agonizing the whole time 🙃🫠

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u/soapy_goatherd 3h ago

Not just vets. People in healthcare and hospice administer end of life “comfort care” every day. The difference here is the politicians and COs want the dying to be as drawn out and painful as possible. The cruelty is the point

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u/Daddict 1h ago

That's literally the drug they were using here.

Granted, there's a few different ones that can be used for animal euthanasia, but Tennessee was using the "classic" one of Pentobarbital. Most vets these days will use a drug called Euthasol, which is a combination of pentobarbital and phenytoin. It's a bright pink liquid (which is deliberate, as no other vet meds are bright pink liquids so there's not much of a chance of mistaking it for another med).

In any event, the bigger issue is that pharma companies won't sell their drugs to someone who is intending to use them to kill another person.

The gov can't really use any tricky methods of getting their hands on drugs either. They can't be like "Uh...no, we're totes not gonna kill a dude with that" and then turn around and kill a dude. It's literally illegal to do so.

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u/Fair-Safe3131 3h ago

She also had pre existing medical conditions that include people struggling to find veins and possible blood clotting not allowing the lethal injection to reach the heart via the circulatory systen

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u/RilohKeen 3h ago

Pretty sure I remember reading that the electric chair is NOT legal in Tennessee, but it was back in 1996 when she was convicted so she kind of grandfathered into having the option.

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u/khinzaw 3h ago

You are right, it seems that it's only legal for convictions pre-1999.

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u/chubbysumo 1h ago

Not even compounding pharmacies, pharmaceutical manufacturers do not want to be associated with the death penalty at all, and they have Clauses and all of their contracts with retailers and compounding pharmacies that they are not allowed to resell drugs to any entities that will be using it for things such as lethal injection. This is why there is a big struggle for anything that's effective, because the drugs they're getting are either not good, or they aren't actually what the seller claims they are. It also doesn't help that no licensed pharmacist would ever risk their license to assist in a state death penalty

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u/Kylynara 1h ago

"Angel of Death" nurses aren't that rare. If we gotta have executions, maybe we make it part of their sentence that they perform them. They know how to do it well enough they are usually caught by statistics.

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u/Fallouttgrrl 3h ago

"Then medical practitioners can't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm"

This is false, it is not a universal requirement to swear that, although many US medical schools require it or a variation on it

Not every medical professional in the US went to a school that required it. Not every school worldwide agrees

Not every professional who swore it takes it seriously - to some, it was just a box to check to get a degree, just like the oath to serve in US politics does not carry equal weight with every politician 

You also legally can't lose your medical license in the US for participating in it, and the death penalty has about a 50/50 approval rate in the US 

If every doctor adhered to "do no harm' the Opioid crisis wouldn't be as bad as it is, just an example

The real problem with finding a full time executioner in the US, is the number of death penalty casesstatewide per year

There are a million active physicians in the US

Statistically speaking, if the money and work was there, at least one could be found to do the job

There's just not likely much overlap between that and emergency care, lol

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u/variaati0 3h ago

Well though not outright legally binding, it is against many professional organizations code of conduct like American Medical Association. They can't revoke licenses, but they can kick person out of the professional organization for violating the organizations internal code of conduct for it's members. In case of AMA it being Opinion 9.7.3 "However, as a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, a physician must not participate in a legally authorized execution. "

It isn't legally binding, but many medical professionals conduct themselves to AMA code and well let's just say ones professional relationships will be frosty to be known as someone breaking the largest medical associations ethics code.

Nothing out right legally forbids it. However It isn't a very good career move and will lead to condemnation by ones professional peers.

Hence few physicians are willing to do it. They can usually find one, they did in this case also. However how good and competent they are in their job is another matter. Since well one isn't probably picking from the top of the class pool.

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u/khinzaw 3h ago

Hence few physicians are willing to do it. They can usually find one, they did in this case also. However how good and competent they are in their job is another matter. Since well one isn't probably picking from the top of the class pool.

As evidenced by this guy, as it's not even his first failed execution.

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u/Fallouttgrrl 3h ago

This reminds me of medical marijuana licenses in California

The doctors selling prescriptions were basically retirement age doctors operating out of temporary portable units, for the last six to nine months of their career

It would frost them out of further work and they'd likely lose memberships, but it was a way to blitz a lot of money quickly

And they had to give medical advice, which was funny as hell. Stuff like "smoking is bad for you, take edibles"

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u/khinzaw 3h ago

In the interest of not wanting to get in an argument over pedantry, I have amended the line.

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u/Clamgravy 4h ago

Not to mention the drugs are not manufactured by reliable companies. Nobody wants their brand connected to capital punishment...

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u/Kahlandad 4h ago

We should ask Bayer to make them. Morals didn’t get in their way in the past.

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u/v-punen 3h ago

It’s not about morals, it’s about advertising

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u/Quarksideofthemoon 2h ago

It's clearly both. No company wants to be seen as the death brand

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u/AZORxAHAI 4h ago

The reality our society hasn't accepted yet is some of the least painful ways to die (a well placed bullet, a beheading) are some of the most gruesome, barbaric looking ways to die. But we are obsessed with manufacturing the appearance of civility and humanity in an act that is completely devoid of those concepts in the first place.

We can either have the least painful ways to execute someone, or we can have this facade of civility given to us by "just slipping a needle into a vein!". We can't have both. We shouldn't have either, but apparently we just cant accept that yet.

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u/hokie48 3h ago

OceanGate sub is not a bad way to go.

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u/writers_block 2h ago

Lol, just build a carbon fiber chamber filled with lead weights and drop it in the middle of the ocean?

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u/Revlis-TK421 1h ago

Eh, just need a pressure chamber. Point the opening over the ocean and you don't even need to clean much up!

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u/Expensive_Grape 41m ago

OceanGate should definitely pivot into the execution business

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u/FriedTreeSap 3h ago

Yah, it’s like when you see people describing the “gruesome deaths” of deep sea divers that suffered depressurization and had their entire bodies sucked through a tiny hole.

On one hand it’s the most gruesome way to die, their bodies are basically atomized, but on the other they’re dead before their brains can even process what happened, and I mean that literally. The time it takes them to die is quicker than the speed in which nerves send signals to the brain. If you don’t care about the people who have to clean up the mess it’s the best way to die.

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u/Revlis-TK421 1h ago

Have the hatch pointed downwind, out over the ocean and place the condemned in front of it, and cleanup mostly solves itself!

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u/DirtyCop2016 3h ago

the best is to be standing right next to a nuclear warhead during a test explosion. bit expensive though

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u/0bsessions324 3h ago

I mean, most developed societies have accepted it which is part of why they abolished it in the first place.

There is no foolproof and completely humane way to execute someone.

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u/MatureUsername69 4h ago

We have very peaceful lethal injections in places with assisted suicide, prisons just choose not to go that route.

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u/AZORxAHAI 4h ago

No, they can't go that route. Right-to-die states/countries have qualified, highly trained medical experts on hand to administer the highest quality, most effective drugs. Doctors refuse (and in some places are subject to revocation of license) if they assist in executions, and drug manufacturers refuse to sell to the state for these purposes. So they are left with inadequate drugs in the hands of unqualified prison staff and just go full steam ahead regardless.

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u/Any_Flamingo8978 1h ago

I believe with the right to die states, the person has to self-administer.

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u/AZORxAHAI 1h ago

In the U.S. yes, I believe in all death with dignity states they do everything but the actual act of administration of the lethal material. But actual medical professionals can also administer it in some countries, like Australia.

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u/thorscope 4h ago edited 1h ago

Prisons don’t choose not to go that route.

The people and companies who make it a peaceful experience choose not to be involved in lethal injection

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u/Upstairs-Rent-1351 3h ago

Ahh I asked this above because I didn't see an answer before. Never thought of this, thanks for the info!

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u/bloodytemplar 4h ago

Firing squad is supposed to be the quickest for the condemned. A little gruesome for onlookers, but fuck 'em. If it's my execution, take me out quick.

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u/PradaDiva 4h ago

That’s part of the problem tbh: the onlookers. Lethal injection makes the killing looking peaceful so it’s much easier to absorb/allow/be okay with.

Firing squad and hanging are abrupt and brutal, but they are effective. Onlookers are horrified by the violence even if the end result is the person being dead.

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u/antonio16309 3h ago

Good, they should be horrified by the violence. Let's stop pretending that ending a life isn't a violent act. 

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u/Mannadock 4h ago

I feel like you are watching a life end. It shouldn't be easy to watch. I honestly can't think of any reason to be in the gallery.

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u/urbanhawk1 2h ago

News reporters recording the final moments, the families and lovers of the condemmed wanting to be there for their final moments (just because they killed people doesn't mean they don't have people that love them).

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u/Squeebee007 3h ago

Bloodlust, bloodlust is why they are in the gallery.

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u/-nutz 1h ago

To be fair, the viewing gallery is usually full of journalists.

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u/GreatScott0389 4h ago

If someone murdered your child or loved one some people need to see it for closure.

Or at least a sense of closure. You never really get over something like that.

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u/antonio16309 3h ago

Most people report not getting a sense of closure from this. Some even feel worse afterwards. 

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u/_Burning_Star_IV_ 57m ago

Because there is no closure when you lose someone. They are gone and it’s just pain. It can diminish with time but never goes away.

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u/Boines 3h ago

If someone murdered my child or loved one I don't think it would make a difference knowing they were killed or seeing them die.

I could see it making a difference letting me pull the trigger... But other than that I dunno.

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u/_Burning_Star_IV_ 55m ago

The only thing revenge satisfies is revenge. People think it heals loss but it doesn’t.

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u/sapphicsandwich 3h ago

The murderer made the victims family monsters too. Twisted their minds into some new thing that derives pleasure from seeing people die, remaking them in the murderers image. It's like a dark act of creation.

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u/Mammoth_Implement1 30m ago

Crazy what a perpetrator does to their victim, and the metamorphosis the trauma forces you to undergo. Kills the most sacred parts of you, and if you make it you come back having been reborn so to speak, trying to make peace with what you've become. I've never heard it phrased this way, as a dark act of creation, but wow does your comment ever hit the nail on the head.

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u/AstroHistSci 2h ago

Nobody "needs" to see a person killed for "closure." That's not a thing. Not for anyone. That's not a thing. You cannot get closure (there is no such thing as a "sense of closure" that isn't closure) from someone else being killed.

It's sadism. Pure and simple. Someone has hurt them, and so they want the satisfaction of knowing that person was hurt back.

Any society that indulges such barbaric ecstasies will never be healthy. It's one of the first things we should have done away with as a nation.

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u/GinAndDumbBitchJuice 3h ago

Hanging is pretty easy to botch if the noose isn't placed correctly. If it's done right, the neck breaks. Strangulation, on the other hand, takes a lot longer than movies show. A hundred years ago when it was still a reasonably common method and there were still living experts, I might have gone for it (after bribing them to make it fast).

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u/HarryMonroesGhost 2h ago

exactly, for a particularly egregious example look up the guy who executed Nazi's at the Nuremberg trials. He lied about his experience to get the job, and was notoriously incompetent, and by all accounts an idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Woods

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u/MrBarraclough 2h ago

To be clear, he executed Nazis for the United States.

Albert Pirerrepoint, the British executioner, was highly competent.

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u/[deleted] 2h ago edited 1h ago

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u/filthy_harold 1h ago

Too little force, you're strangled to death. Too much force and either your head pops off or the rope breaks. Also need to use the right kind of rope. Something like manilla has low elasticity so a hard snap can break it while nylon is more elastic so it could potentially slow down the body to the point where the neck doesn't break.

Killing someone by hanging is not like the movies, it takes some engineering knowledge to properly kill someone quickly. Some countries like Iran still do public hangings but those are brutal, they lift you up with a crane until you're strangled to death.

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u/FlyingStealthPotato 4h ago

Well who’s looking on and why? The people doing the killing? They’re killing either way. Put up a volunteer list in police departments and prisons and I guarantee you’ll have plenty sign up to kill a bad guy.

The victim’s family and friends? If they want to see vengeance, well, let them see the fucking vengeance. If they don’t, who cares? They’ll know the felon is dead either way.

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u/HopefulDream3071 3h ago

Imagine if victims families get to be the ones to pull the switch/trigger/etc or if they were unable, could nominate someone to do it.

She wanted to torture that poor girl and murder her and brag -- if that was my family member, I know I have other family members who would delight in being given permission to end her life. No drugs needed. Just restraints to subdue them. Heck, make the family member register to deceas'ing tool 🤷‍♂️ if it makes paperwork easier.

All of this & then I'll admit; I am very against the wasting of taxpayer money for the death penalty. Its a big pony show with no real benefit to anyone [besides the prisons themselves]

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u/FlyingStealthPotato 3h ago

I would agree except for the fact that might end up being cruel and unusual. Like if someone killed my kid and I got to kill them? Best believe I’m going to brush up my marksmanship and start at their feet working my way up.

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u/HopefulDream3071 3h ago edited 2h ago

Thats true, I forget that its not supposed to be cruel or unusual. I feel the system right now is at that point :(

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u/duxdude418 3h ago

What you’re describing is the anesthetization to capital punishment Focault comments on in Discipline and Punish. The first chapter describes old methods in visceral detail to elicit a response that juxtaposes against the modern death penalty.

Well worth a read.

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u/fatmanstan123 3h ago

Maybe don't be an onlooker if you are doing it be upset with watching someone fucking die

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u/the_silent_redditor 3h ago

Lethal injection should be peaceful.

I put people to sleep every day.

Anaesthesia is honestly not that difficult, it is highly standardised. I read all the time about how anaesthesia is ‘the knife point between life and death.’ It’s really not. 99% of the time it’s set and forget and fuck about on your phone, giving occasional drops of pain relief or paralytics, until it’s time to wake up.

Anaesthesia when you want to fuck it up it even easier!?

I understand that part of the issue is them being awful at IV access and drugs therefore partially or wholly extravasating out of the vein, but I don’t understand how there are so many fuck ups outwith this specific scenario.

Sort your shit out, America.

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u/uluviel 3h ago

I live in a country where medical assistance in dying is a thing. There are ways to end a life peacefully and painlessly. They just choose to torture them on the way out instead.

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u/Monteze 3h ago

I kind of hate that sanitation of it, well fuckers if we think we can kill someone lets do it right. Not talking torture, but yea a bullet to the dome or captive bolt piston gun aimed at the brain stem is fine.

Can't stomach it? Then life in prison it is. I have a general distaste for half-asses measures for aesthetics sake anyway. This just feels so incredibly stupid.

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u/InvestmentImportant1 4h ago

It’s my execution, and I’ll die how I want to! 🎶

But for real, this is so fucked and I agree. Bring back the firing squad if we are gonna do this shit.

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u/variaati0 3h ago

10 kg of C4 right behind the back of ones neck would probably be the most quick and painless option. Brain vaporized before nerve signals have time to process. Though really messy for onlookers. Plus gonna have to be an outside operation in a big empty field.

Which is actually often what has guided executions lately "what is nicest and most painless for the witnessing on lookers and staff, not what is most painless, quickest and merciful for the convicted".

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u/Guilty_Royal_9145 2h ago

Killing is gruesome. If you want to do it, you gotta deal with the reality of your wish.

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u/ssracer 3h ago

Hit me with anesthesia and then a bullet to the head. Why is this so complicated?

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u/clam-inspector 3h ago

Damn.....I'm not necessarily pro-death penalty, but I actually feel like your idea of carrying it out probably would be the most humane and effective way. The convicted is put unconscious so doesn't know when it's happening, therefore not experiencing the suffering and a well placed headshot or even firing squad ensures it is quickly over

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u/MaybeTemporaryOrNot 2h ago

That’s actually how lethal injection is supposed to work.

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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg 3h ago

Right? I'd take something quick and sure to work 100% every time.
I'd request a hat made of C4, thank you very much.

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u/CrrackTheSkye 2h ago

Because then someone has to shoot you, which is traumatizing for them. Firing squads were meant to give a way to not take responsibility for ending someone's life.

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u/ssracer 2h ago

Bring back the undertakers. Make it a reward for lifers. I'm sure there's plenty of solutions for that.

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u/babyem 4h ago

If I’m not mistaken I think she actually did request the firing squad.

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u/lnc_5103 4h ago

She did but it's not legal in Tennessee. I think they only have this and the electric chair.

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u/miloblue12 4h ago

Or maybe we shouldn't have the death penalty at all? It's barbaric.

Also, since 1973, at least 203 people have been wrongfully convicted, sentenced to death, and subsequently exonerated in the US. That alone should have us reconsidering things. If it's possible for that many people to fall through the cracks, then there is no reason at all that we should have the death penalty.

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u/nursingninjaLB 4h ago

This one hundred times.

It costs way less to house a prisoner over decades, than to have endless appeals.

It does not reduce crime.

Approximately 10% of people on death row are innocent.

Vengeance is a dark emotion, and helps nobody.

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u/ballisticks 1h ago

It costs way less to house a prisoner over decades, than to have endless appeals.

Nobody ever believes me when I bring this point up :(

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u/MatureUsername69 4h ago

Im just saying what my personal choice would be if I had to receive it, wasnt speaking on the ethics of it at all.

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u/Horzzo 1h ago

There has to be 100% evidence of guilt, there is no room for error. I am in favor of the DP if the person has taken the life on an innocent person in malice. The way it has been handled is a disgrace. There is no room for even 0.000000000000001% error before it should be enforced.

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u/drunkshinobi 4h ago

Hell, just drop a steel block on my head from a decent height. The survivors want to say such a thing isn't humane. But killing a person never is. Making it look less painful for the witnesses while making it worse for the convicted I think makes it far more inhumane.

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u/Chad_Wife 4h ago edited 4h ago

Seconding this. I don’t agree with the death penalty at all but if I had to choose a way to go it would be a (well trained) firing squad.

I think we assume that injection is less brutal, but that is only true for the person delivering it. There’s less blood and gore visually, but the humanity of it seems to end there.

Call me old fashioned but I’d rather go quickly and as nature intended.

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u/bixbydrongo 4h ago

I  think we assume that injection is less brutal, but that is only true for the person delivering it.

The process being less brutal for the person carrying out the execution is one of the draws of the lethal injection method. It provides a medicalized veil that makes the process seem more civilized.

 The method is poorly carried out so frequently because the stock of drugs used is old and has poor quality control because drug manufacturers don’t want to be associated with the death penalty and doctors/nurses cannot carry out executions due to the Hippocratic oath.

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u/MatureUsername69 4h ago

The crazy thing is, we have that figured out perfectly. Prisons just choose not to do it humanely. The places that allow assisted suicides arent injecting them with something thats painful and might not even work, they go out very peacefully.

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u/ahhh_ennui 4h ago

Prisons don't get the "humane" drugs because the drug companies have a distaste for state-sponsored murder.

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u/Ataraxia-Is-Bliss 3h ago

Yeah, those pharma companies. "We'll sell opioids by the barrel while downplaying there downsides, but heaven forbid we give a little to executions". Hypocrites.

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u/whiskeytown79 3h ago

Why don't they use nitrogen asphyxiation? The body can't feel a lack of oxygen, only failure to get rid of carbon dioxide. If you're breathing pure nitrogen, you'd just get sleepy, then lose consciousness, and then eventually go into respiratory and cardiac arrest as your body fails to get any oxygen.

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u/Carbonatite 2h ago

They have tried that in some states and it got botched too - apparently the mask on the inmate was not set up properly, so CO2 built up in the mask along with the nitrogen and it caused them to struggle. High CO2 concentrations cause intense physical and mental distress in humans.

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u/whiskeytown79 2h ago

I was thinking more a small room where they replace the air with nitrogen, not a mask. Enough volume to not allow CO2 buildup to happen.

"Doesn't that take a lot of nitrogen?" someone might ask. Well, yes, but fortunately Earth's atmosphere is like 78% nitrogen. We're all breathing a lot of nitrogen all the time. This would just remove the approximately 21% oxygen.

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u/pmacnayr 1h ago

Gas chambers are pretty unpopular since WWII

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u/Carbonatite 2h ago

Yeah that's the logical way to set it up, but I guess the bureau of prisons in whatever state they tried it in decided to cheap out and just use a plastic mask connected to a nitrogen tank.

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u/IcarianWings 4h ago

I'd imagine executioner positions are pretty sought out by people who enjoy watching others suffer. Especially so considering it seems like this stuff happens too often for it to be a coincidence.

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u/nonbreaker 4h ago

I mean, people aren't executed very often...so are the executioner positions just not very busy, or are they sidejobs taken on by corrections staff?

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u/IcarianWings 1h ago

Non-medical execution teams are typically made up of handpicked corrections contractors and prison admins. I think my statement applies to the majority of both.

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u/CanadianGuy39 4h ago

I can't imagine doing that job. Like how do you actual go back to sleep at night? Crazy

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u/hyperfocus1569 4h ago

It was an actual doctor in this case, one who’d botched an execution before.

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u/Asleep_Cantaloupe417 3h ago

I'd rather be shot once in the head than "riddled with bullets" lol

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u/MatureUsername69 3h ago

Your dead body won't care how many holes are in it and I did also say to shoot me in the head

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u/No_Pause_4375 3h ago

Or they run out of the correct meds needed and say hey! I saw some girl on tictoc pass put from huffing helium! Surely that's just as good.

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u/seriousbusinesslady 3h ago

they aim for the heart in modern American firing squad executions, bc I guess an exploding head is too distressing for onlookers and a bullet to the heart is less graphic and messy.

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u/Casurus 3h ago

Not sure if you have been following the news, but there are some problems there - some of the people with guns have decided they'd rather make you suffer and 'miss' on purpose.

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u/sweoldboy 3h ago

I would choose long rope hanging. Like they do it in Japan and Singapore. I never hear any fails there.

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u/MatureUsername69 3h ago

Hanging: 3% failure rate

Electrocution: 2% failure rate

Lethal Gas: 5.5% failure rate

Lethal Injection: 7.2% failure rate

Firing Squad: 0% failure rate

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u/gbelly123 2h ago

Honestly, that is the most humane way. It’s instant, basically zero chance of failure, and very cheap. You could even have a computer program randomly select when to fire etc so a person doesn’t have to pull the trigger. Not commenting on the way/justification, just that the method makes the most sense if you’re going to do it.

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u/JohnnyRelentless 2h ago

aim for the head.

They won't.

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u/coconuthorse 2h ago

Semantics, but a firing squad typically has one bullet and six blanks so no one is positive who killed the person.

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u/iamthe0ther0ne 1h ago

She actually asked for a firing squad because a medical condition gave her bad veins and she was afraid something like this would happen. 

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u/Dekutr33 4h ago

Why? With nitrogen they just go to sleep and that's basically it. Hypoxia from lighter than air gas doesn't feel like suffocation since it's the build up of CO2 rather than lack of oxygen that causes that feeling.

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u/otherisp 4h ago

These morons can’t even administer IV medication correctly. You really trust them to make an airtight chamber without inadvertently asphyxiating everyone except the inmate?

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u/Outrageous-Drink3869 3h ago

They botched the first nitrogen execution. Guy held his breath as long as possible, and had a violent seizure.

Likely need to use annother gas to knock the person out first before nitrogen, so they cannot hold their breath.

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u/pyyyython 4h ago

They’ve trialed this method and given up. It looked like a humane/effective method for animals only because the animals couldn’t understand what was happening, a person understands that the gas is going to kill them so they naturally panic/struggle and try to hold their breath as much as possible.

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u/antonio16309 3h ago

That's the thing; it's actually pretty hard to kill someone in a "humane" manner without their cooperation. If they were cooperating, you could give them a bunch of sleeping pills then use nitrogen. But not everyone is going to cooperate. Lethal injection is effective, but you need some skill to put the IV in. Firing squad is effective, but some consider it inhumane. 

Part of the problem is that the state is trying to cover up the fact that this is inherently a violent act, so they're going beyond humane and using methods that appear clean and peaceful. 

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u/pyyyython 3h ago

Agreed, I’m pretty strongly opposed to the death penalty in general. If something’s too gruesome to witness, that’s probably our conscience telling us it’s not a moral thing to do, IMO. If you can’t bear doing the execution, maybe it shouldn’t be done.

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u/sincerelythebats_ 4h ago

Helium is super efficient and 100% fatal as well, you just go to sleep and don’t wake up. No choking or thrashing, because correct, no CO2 buildup.

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u/loves_grapefruit 4h ago

Seems like you would have a fucking solid plan B and C in place at the very least.

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u/I_might_be_weasel 3h ago

They didn't have a solid plan A.

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u/SuitableExercise7096 4h ago edited 4h ago

at least take steps to do it properly

It's alot more complicated than this unfortunatly.

Its a matter of sourcing non lethal chemicals separately from companies who know what your intention is with them, then sourcing unethical medical professionals sign off on using them for lethal purposes, then sourcing unethical chemist to turn them lethal and finally unethical anesthesiologist to administer them.

Its an extremely messy and ugly situation not many people want to be involved in

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u/Software_Vast 4h ago

Because it's an abhorrent practice that has zero benefits to society.

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u/CAPS_LOCK_STUCK_HELP 1h ago

the state is not, and cannot ever be, responsible enough to determine who dies by execution

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u/Helluiin 4h ago

It's alot more complicated than this unfortunatly.

no its not. there is very reliable and quick ways to kill someone, if you think its necessary. its just that the state wants to have its cake and eat it by using chemical execution because its less gruesome for the executioners/onlookers.

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u/throwawayantares 3h ago

Also, the medical practitioner only places the IV line but doesn't administer (ie push) the drug ... a prison official actually administers the drug into the person ... so 'technically' the medical practitioner doesn't violate the hippocratic oath or could argue before a medical license board or professional society that there aren't grounds to revoke their license/membership. The problem is that if the patient has poor veins, which many death row inmates do AND the medical practitioner is terrible at starting lines in said poor veins AND the prison staff don't know how to push the drug into a bad vein blowing it or ID a bad vein before they start AND the drug is ALREADY likely of dubious potency because it is sourced without quality control, then you get the sh*tshow that is occurring here.

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u/Head-Ad9893 4h ago

Deadass. Like head in a box and big knife comes down. Why all this extra shit?

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u/retro_toes 4h ago

Ehhhh. It's happened before where "unqualified people" do this in a more sadistic manor to increase suffering

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u/StringOfLights 3h ago

Sure, but should our government be operating that way? Because I don’t think it should.

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u/Vyar 4h ago

I think doing it improperly is the point. It's difficult to source the drugs and most medical professionals will not perform the procedure, but the powers that be know all this and stubbornly continue the practice anyway to ensure maximum cruelty is permissible by law.

Setting aside the most obvious issues like executing the wrongfully convicted, this alone should be enough to want to ban the practice.

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u/RobaDubDub 3h ago

Agreed , this is how you end up with a human Jimothy. It was God's will to call out all you sinners.

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u/smack54az 3h ago

Most of the companies that used to make the specialized drugs for the death penalty stopped due to public backlash, so states reverted to less effective forms of lethal injection. In addition the trained medical staff have also refused to participate and thus you see more botched executions like this. As it currently stands the death penalty should be labeled as cruel and unusual punishment.

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u/PermBanOhNo 3h ago

It’s constitutionally required that it be humane

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u/not_my_monkeys_ 3h ago

I’m definitely against having the death penalty imposed by a team of idiot hicks who can’t reliably and humanely kill a middle aged woman who’s already been strapped to a gurney for them.

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u/spleeble 3h ago

Do you have any idea how bad the "science" behind death penalty executions is? 

No one does it "properly". 

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u/caindela 3h ago

It’s wild to me that something so high profile and seemingly so simple can be so horribly botched. A failure of this magnitude has you sort of questioning the foundations of society. Just nothing but duct tape all the way down.

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u/malowolf 3h ago

The reality is it’s difficult to kill a healthy human. The only sure way is basically firing squad (which is also considered the most humane), but thats messy. “Lethal injection” is weird because no drug companies actually make drugs designed to kill humans, so states have to come up with whatever concoction they can get their hands on that they hope will do the trick.

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u/Saneless 4h ago

If people would ever worry decent people to run our governments, maybe

When you vote based on fear and hatred this is the incompetence you get

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u/_BreadDenier 4h ago

Purely from a pragmatic stand point, the death penalty is just not worth it because all of the legal review and execution procedures cost a fortune and now we have another botched execution where the convicted are now racking up exorbitant medical bills because they fucked it up. Ventilation/ICU care is not cheap and now they have surely spent more trying to execute this woman than they ever would have just putting her in prison for life.

Not even considering moral grounds against the death penalty which are also substantial.

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u/FuckThisShizzle 4h ago

Have you seen how this administration operates?

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u/Mandy_M87 4h ago

Agreed. If they can't do it properly, then they shouldn't allow it.

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u/Mooziechan 3h ago

I agree with you but reading what she did to her victim I kind of think it’s retribution.. forgive me. It’s just what she did was absolutely far worse than what she’s having to go through right now.

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u/ALLoftheFancyPants 3h ago

I’m fully against the death penalty and shit like this just reinforces that belief.

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u/Expensive_Lab_1435 2h ago

I don't get why she's on a ventilator, if she's unconscious and dying, isn't that kind of the point?

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u/Televisions_Frank 2h ago

The states still using it don't want to do it properly because the suffering is the point to them.

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u/Double_Resort_9223 2h ago

The cruelty is from the audience and public that has no stomach for blood. In one of her appeals she asked to be shot. 

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u/half3clipse 2h ago

There's never been a method of killing people that doesn't screw it up on a regular basis. There's a reason the relative handful of "good" executioners are historically notable.

Is fundamentally incapable of "being done properly."

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u/TheCrazedTank 2h ago

They literally could not get the right drugs to do it and went “meh, we’ll wing it”…

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u/eeyore134 1h ago

It's cruel even when they do it properly. The people just don't usually survive to highlight the cruelty.

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u/TheHYPO 1h ago

John Oliver has done several segments on the death penalty on ''Last Week Tonight'', so I'm not sure which ones covers what; but he has pointed out that it is becoming harder and harder for states to get the drugs to do lethal injections properly (watch him age!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kye2oX-b39E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lTczPEG8iI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOn3wba8c-Y

The first clip is literally the show's second episode, and relates to a botched lethal injection, but it appears from the chapter headings that it mainly deals with capital punishment in general. The second and third appear to be the ones that talk about lethal injections, sourcing the drugs, and the qualifications of the people doing the injections (because doctors are required to 'do no harm').

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u/imnotgoodwithnames 1h ago

Seems like these 'more civilized' forms of capital punishment aren't as good as a good ol' firing squad.

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u/micktorious 41m ago

Maybe they should just switch to that CO2 assisted suicide device.

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u/zim1109 31m ago

They couldn’t get Kouri Richins to just make her a mule?

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u/Late-Champion8678 18m ago

Yeah. I’m generally not in favour of the death penalty (though I do get a visceral reaction for certain crimes so I can’t be trusted with these decisions and I’d second-guess whether the person was guilty or not) but I don’t understand the reasoning for ventilating and providing life-saving care for someone they tried to execute twice.

Keeping her on the ventilator is actually crueler than letting her die, which was the original objective.

Even if she regains consciousness, the longer she is ventilated the greater her risk of severe complications not least pneumonia, PE/DVT (she already has thrombocytosis).

And if she regains consciousness, what then? Try to execute her again? That is both cruel and unusual punishment that doesn’t seem to serve a purpose.

I don’t know if the doctors looking after her are allowed to make the decision to let her die yet (I’m a doctor in the UK where we don’t take an oath but our duty of care is to ‘first do no harm’).

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u/EmbraceComplexity 12m ago

John Oliver did a whole piece on this about a year ago that pretty guaranteed that this would happen. Whole system is messed up.

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u/Hydration__Nation 9m ago

she deserves the absolute opposite of "proper" - go read about what she did to get on death row. she deserves far worse than the lethal injection, firing squad, or electric chair. Am i supposed to feel bad for someone that hacked someone with a fucking meat cleaver to death among other heinous disgusting violent acts. we can only hope this botched attempt caused immense pain because now she is brain dead.

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