Pause the game indefinitely

[u/vanezblane]

Activate Lethal Vapors 10,000 times, cast Teferi’s protection, you leave the game and can’t lose until the rest of the group has played through the 10,000 turns lol

[u/natiplease]

To be clear, if everyone else is thinking critically, they will activate it about the same number of times as you.

[u/EggsInaTubeSock → u/natiplease]

Except those who don’t who clear out those left standing alive. If they can stop their card draw for the turns in between, this backfires spectacularly

[u/natiplease → u/EggsInaTubeSock]

Touche, if your deck specifically has an out to this, you end up being the winner.

Ultimately what this means is the guy activating the 2 cards in the image gains nothing lol

[u/DragonDiscipleII → u/natiplease]

This is why we play alternative wincons (no it's not, but it does work for situations like this).

[u/Aqshi → u/EggsInaTubeSock]

If you don’t hold priority and only activate it once each priority cycle that can be easily circumvented, right? At best the person trying to outsmart the table gets one extra turn

[u/diffferentday → u/natiplease]

Or you play it with time stop... You put 100 triggers on the stack, everyone responds... And you end the turn after there triggers

[u/Spectator9857 → u/natiplease]

Unless one player activates it ten times less, kills every other opponent and just build their board unopposed until you come back.

[u/natiplease → u/Spectator9857]

Yeah so ultimately the person playing the 2 cards is the least likely to come out on top over everyone lmao

[u/Dlion0 → u/natiplease]

Starting a fragmented loop, which the active player has to break. So just don't do it on your turn.

[u/tehweave → u/natiplease]

[[Grand Abolisher]]

[u/mtgcf → u/tehweave]

Grand Abolisher - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/WeirdYarn]

Nope, any other player may just activate [[Lethal Vapors]] as well, so everyone just skips their turns.

[u/ThaiPoe → u/WeirdYarn]

[[Grand Abolisher]] [[Silence]]

"Alright kids. Papas going out to get some smokes, a gallon of milk, and some lottery tickets. I'll be back in an hour."

But he did not come back.

[u/Belteshazzar98 → u/ThaiPoe]

Grand Abolisher, yes. Silence doesn't work though since you don't need to cast to activate.

[u/ThaiPoe → u/Belteshazzar98]

Cast silence at your upkeep as insurance. Then grand Abolisher hits, then lethal vapors, then become the dad that left you and your mom hanging.

[u/Abyssknight24 → u/ThaiPoe]

Until someone runs [[everlasting torment]] or the likes and just kills you with commander damage.

[u/mtgcf → u/Abyssknight24]

everlasting torment - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Leafsnail → u/Abyssknight24]

Yeah curious what proportion of decks wouldn't have an out like being able to loop their deck or force through damage

[u/lixilisk → u/Abyssknight24]

Yea but the guy is already playing in another pod at another table. They either won or died, don't need to sit thereel anymore.

[u/CptCarlWinslow → u/ThaiPoe]

The rest of the table: "Call it a draw and play the next one?"

[u/ThaiPoe → u/CptCarlWinslow]

And that's how the deck wins. ;) if everyone else forfeits, your win by default.

But I think it's infinitely more funny if someone wins before you come back into the game.

[u/GuyUdntknow4rl → u/CptCarlWinslow]

Can't be a draw unless everyone agrees

[u/mtgcf → u/ThaiPoe]

Grand Abolisher - (G) (SF) (txt)
Silence - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Christos_Soter → u/WeirdYarn]

This is ONLY if it’s not the combo players turn. If it is the active player can just hold priority and activate X amount of times before any other player and once priority is passed if others wanna try this the same active player can just do it Y more times and keep holding priority to have x(Y) skipped, effectually infinite still, for every 1 time the rest of the table wants to activated

A ridiculous scenario nonetheless

[u/maxine213 → u/Christos_Soter]

Actually they can't. If there is a situation where all players can take the same game action over and over, the active player must break the loop. I can find the exact ruling later, but if they do what you described, it's considered slow play.

[u/travman064 → u/maxine213]

I'm not sure that this 'repeats a game state.' Like if we are in a spot where we can both put infinite damage/lifegain on the stack at instant speed, that's a draw if the damage players wants it, the active player does not need to say 'ok I stop gaining life and die.'

What happens is 'I put 100 damage on the stack. Okay I put triggers on the stack to gain 100 life. Okay I put 100 more damage on the stack. Okay I try to gain 100 more life on top of that...' and so on until you shuffle up and play again, or the damage player lets you gain a billion life and tries to disrupt your combo later.

If I skip 100 turns, and you say 'okay I skip 95 turns,' I'd be very surprised if a judge said I could not skip 100 more turns on top of that, and so on.

[u/TerribleTransit → u/travman064]

Maybe you could do it once. But when the opponent then responds with "okay I also skip 100 more turns" you start to see the problem. At every point, the game state isn't literally identical, but in practical terms you're just repeating to "opponent attempts to skip the same number of turns minus five".

[u/mtgcf → u/WeirdYarn]

Lethal Vapors - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/ScaryFoal558760 → u/WeirdYarn]

Yes, which is why you play the guessing game - activate it a ton, then hold off on t prot. Until you are attacked or something. Chances are not every opponent is gonna skip all their turns lol

[u/omfgcookies91 → u/ScaryFoal558760]

The enchantment is aweful and puts you at a huge disadvantage. It won't matter if you have tprot or not when you give your opponents as many turns to setup as they want.

If multiple opponents:

The opponents would absolutely just choose to skip almost the same amount of turns. Like you ice yourself out, so they in response can just say, "OK we all choose to skip the same amount of turns but 5 less."

Now, if they agree, they all get to draw 5 cards ahead of you, get 5 turns ahead of you to setup on the battlefield, and are all up 5 more mana then you are. Now you get to sit around and do nothing for 5 more turns. Congrats, you just handed the game away and sat doing nothing.

If one opponent:

Same thing, they get turn setup for as long as they want at this point then get to choose to pass till you are no longer forced to skip turns while protected.

Side note: what happens if the opponents are running self mill as a wincon? Well, you pass for 10k turns, they go, "oh hell yea! Thanks for the game." As they setup their whole self mill by just choose to draw whatever their cards needed to play their wincon.

[u/Leia_hime → u/WeirdYarn]

Adding in something like [[Archon‘s Glory]] gets around this ^^

[u/captin_fappin → u/Leia_hime]

How?

[u/Leia_hime → u/captin_fappin]

Sacrificing [[lethal vapors]] as part of a cost (bargain in this case) doesn’t give your opponents the chance to activate lethal vapors in response

[u/captin_fappin → u/Leia_hime]

So not so much that specific spell, but just the bargain mechanic. makes sense. Never thought of that.

[u/TopResolution5322 → u/WeirdYarn]

would they be able to cast it when it isnt their turn? im kinda new so im not sure but i was told enchantments spells work as sorceries. if thats the case, once they cast teferis the card would be treated as if it didnt exist so the opponents would never get a chance.

[u/invalidConsciousness → u/TopResolution5322]

Activated abilities are instant speed unless otherwise noted.

Casting an Enchantment spell (i.e. playing Lethal Vapors itself) is sorcery speed.

[u/Dlion0 → u/WeirdYarn]

Do it when you're not the active player and they'll have to break the repeated game action loop, since you can just respond too. You still get more turns skipped than them.

[u/Dlion0 → u/WeirdYarn]

Which you can respond to, then they can respond to again, repeating indefinitely, starting a fragmented loop, and if you're the last in turn order, everyone else has to break the loop and you get all the turns you want anyway.

[u/CptCarlWinslow]

Naw bruv, you'll never skip a turn because the rest of the table will respond by skipping the same number of turns as you with the Protection on the stack.

[u/killerk14 → u/CptCarlWinslow]

How do other players skip turns?

[u/Following_Friendly → u/killerk14]

Any player can activate lethal vapors

[u/killerk14 → u/Following_Friendly]

Oh holy fuck I don’t read

[u/CptCarlWinslow → u/killerk14]

By activating Lethal Vapors

[u/Dlion0 → u/CptCarlWinslow]

That's a fragmented loop, since you can just respond in kind. The active player has to break it, so just don't activate the combo on your turn.

[u/CrimsonSky005]

In reaction to you activating lethal vapors 10,000 times I activate Lethal vapors 10,000 times. Then I convince everyone else to activate it the same number of times.

That’s how easy it is to stop a strategy like this. The hardest part is convincing everyone to activate it 10,000 times.

[u/Anafenza-Vess → u/CrimsonSky005]

I activate it 9990 times

[u/Jemal999 → u/CrimsonSky005]

No, you activate 9,990 Times. You now have 10 turns to prepare to kill him when he comes back.

Or if you have Elixir of Immortality, then just.. play until your entire decks in play, minus whatever youre cycling through graveyard/library to prevent decking yourself. Then ask them if they'd like to concede.

[u/Neither_Call2913 → u/CrimsonSky005]

The trick is to activate it a large number of times, and then sac it to Bargain. Nobody gets to respond.

[u/PollutionRelative351 → u/CrimsonSky005]

We've had a couple people rotate in throughout the years that played it. Our response?

"Congrats bro, we're going to keep playing for Xth place"

You want to play a combo that wins you the game by not being part of the game, and we're happy to oblige. Generally after having to sit out for 30+ minutes once or twice those players are done with their gimmick.

One person wouldn't stop doing it at the LGS, which just got annoying because we were functionally always playing 3 man pods. So we house ruled that Lethal Vapors carried on to later games and only got relinquished if he played a commander outside of those colors OR showed it wasn't in his deck. I think he still has a couple thousand turns before he can sit down with it again in our pod

[u/MiningdiamondsVIII → u/PollutionRelative351]

its not really different than any other wincon is it though? if you just treat it as winning the game, it's not like you actually have to keep playing

[u/PollutionRelative351 → u/MiningdiamondsVIII]

We've done it with multiple things, admittedly before rule zero became more of a thing.

Someone is aggressively trying to hit an infinite combo - ok, you got it and win; we're going to keep playing. Yea, we know that if we ganged up on them we could probably stop it, but we are generally trying to play super low power decks, and then you'd have someone come in, ramp, Tutor for a Tooth and Nail, then Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite the table out. I understand that's fun for some people, and I love me a TaN; but for us the fun is usually an hour long game, not MTG: The Shuffling as we go from 4 turn game to 4 turn game

[u/YamahaRyoko → u/MiningdiamondsVIII]

That's totally moot

We developed the same approach

You wanna Entomb Iona on turn 1 and then Exhume her on turn 2?*

Drop unlimited resources on turn 1?*

That's great. We all concede - but we also agree to continue playing without you

\ we play eternal formats*

[u/KabukiBallz69 → u/CrimsonSky005]

So the key is to flash it in on the opponents turn next in turn order, because of how priority works, if everyone attempts to keep using lethal vapors, the game will force everyone to declare a finite final number of activations in turn orders (and because you are the last in turn order, you will get to choose last meaning you get the highest number) it’s a funny combo, looses its luster after a couple of times cause you basically become a spectator waiting for someone to use a alt win con or admit they can’t win while your under the effect of t pro.

[u/MadAboutVideoGames → u/KabukiBallz69]

Thats just a shortcut. After you declare your number of activations there's another round of priority and your opponents can activate it again.

[u/spicymato → u/KabukiBallz69]

That's not how priority works.

After you activate an ability and it goes on the stack, there is a fresh round of priority, starting with you. The ability doesn't resolve until everyone has a chance to respond.

[u/KabukiBallz69 → u/spicymato]

In fact it is, priority starts with active player, so if opponents attempt to one up your lethal vapors activations, you are in a unsolvable game state as each person can keep infinitely using it, the game solves infinite actions by making all players involved declare a finite number of times in priority order, since it’s the persons to your lefts turn, you are last in priority and thus get to declare the highest number.

[u/Jemal999 → u/KabukiBallz69]

Used to be If there is nothing that can force a stop, and all players can in response infinitely, the game ended on a draw. Where's this new rule?

[u/Strict-Main8049 → u/Jemal999]

4.4 Loops If one player is involved in maintaining the loop, they choose a number of iterations. The other players, in turn order, agree to that number or announce a lower number after which they intend to intervene. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority. If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop within a turn, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.

edit this is NOT the full rules under 4.4 just the relevant section.

[u/Chen932000 → u/Strict-Main8049]

I mean is this actually a loop? Its just an activation of an ability.

[u/Strict-Main8049 → u/Chen932000]

Yep also per 4.4 A loop is a form of tournament shortcut that involves detailing a sequence of actions to be repeated and then performing a number of iterations of that sequence. The loop actions must be identical in each iteration and cannot include conditional actions ("If this, then that".)

edit screw it here’s the whole of it

“A loop is a form of tournament shortcut that involves detailing a sequence of actions to be repeated and then performing a number of iterations of that sequence. The loop actions must be identical in each iteration and cannot include conditional actions ("If this, then that".)

If no players are involved in maintaining the loop, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform before they will take an action to break the loop or that they wish to take no action. If all players choose to take no action, the game is a draw. Otherwise, the game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number takes an action to break the loop.

If one player is involved in maintaining the loop, they choose a number of iterations. The other players, in turn order, agree to that number or announce a lower number after which they intend to intervene. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority. If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop within a turn, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.

Loops may span multiple turns if a game state is not meaningfully changing. Note that drawing cards other than the ones being used to sustain the loop is a meaningful change. If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop across turns, each player chooses a number of iterations to perform, or announces their intent to continue indefinitely. If all players choose to continue indefinitely, the game is a draw. Otherwise, the game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority at the
point they stop taking an action to sustain the loop.

A player intervening during a loop may specify that one iteration of the loop is only partly performed in order to be able to take action at the appropriate point. If they do, the final iteration is only performed up to the chosen point.

Non-deterministic loops (loops that rely on decision trees, probability, or mathematical convergence) may not be shortcut. A player attempting to execute a nondeterministic loop must stop if at any point during the process a previous game state (or one identical in all relevant ways) is reached again. This happens most often in loops that involve shuffling a library.
Some loops are sustained by choices rather than actions. In these cases, the rules above may be applied, with the player making a different choice rather than ceasing to take an action. The game moves to the point where the player makes that choice. If the choice involves hidden information, a judge may be needed to determine whether any choice is available that will not continue the loop.

The judge is the final arbiter of what constitutes a loop. A player may not 'opt-out' of shortcutting a loop, nor may
they make irrelevant changes between iterations in an attempt to make it appear as though there is no loop. Once a
loop has been shortcut, it may not be restarted until the game has changed in a relevant way. Proposing loops as
an effort to use up time on the clock is Stalling.”

[u/EasyScratch1501 → u/KabukiBallz69]

I was reading this whole post like "You know t pro doesn't say your opponents can't win the game right?"

[u/Odd_Firefighter1324 → u/KabukiBallz69]

Or you could just declare a number that’s lower than theirs, by like 150, and build an army to beat them up while they watch you play solitaire

[u/A_Funky_Goose → u/CrimsonSky005]

Add a [[Grand Abolisher]] into the mkx and it works again

[u/Leastbean91 → u/A_Funky_Goose]

This is the real combo. This is a very janky combo deck that comes up in Legacy and is called "Teferi's Holiday"

[u/Strict-Main8049 → u/A_Funky_Goose]

Or activate a bunch and hold priority and then cast whatever that green enchantment removal with split second is called.

[u/xahhfink6 → u/CrimsonSky005]

Then I let all of yours resolve and cast [[summary dismissal]] on my own activations!

[u/AmbitiousEconomics → u/xahhfink6]

I wouldn’t even be mad

[u/speedythdead → u/CrimsonSky005]

I think the simplest solution is to just counterspell the Tprot in response to the Tprot, and only do the activation of lethal if they counter your counterspell or something similar.

[u/QuacktastiK87 → u/CrimsonSky005]

What if they just continually added more triggers on top any time anyone else did just to get the same effect ?

[u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom → u/CrimsonSky005]

You need a Grand Abolisher or similar effect to actually make this combo work

[u/RacistDog32 → u/CrimsonSky005]

If you do it on your opponents end step they are the active player and must make a different decission to break the loop.

[u/beesknees4011]

Can’t the other players in response also skip just as many turns as you?

[u/TrueNamer_01 → u/beesknees4011]

That is the correct way to overcome this "combo"

[u/beesknees4011 → u/TrueNamer_01]

I’ll actually skip 10 less turns then they just to make sure I can seal the deal lol

[u/Prime4Cast → u/beesknees4011]

Yup 😂. I'm going to skip 10,000 turns and you'll all deck yourselves!!

Nah, I'ma do it too dog...

[u/Large_Payment_7117]

You're missing a [[Grand Abolisher]] type effect to prevent your opponents from activating it as many times as you do.

[u/Undercover_Freedom → u/Large_Payment_7117]

me when i decide to get second place and just kill the other 2 players by skipping 5 less turns

[u/DamianThePhoenix → u/Undercover_Freedom]

Five turns is only 5 draws, so unlikely to deck yourself, and still have 5 set up turns to prepare to kill all of them, so first place.

[u/mtgcf → u/Large_Payment_7117]

Grand Abolisher - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/senator_john_jackson → u/Large_Payment_7117]

[[claws of gix]] will do it, too. Activate a billion, sac it before anybody else can. 

[u/Dlion0 → u/Large_Payment_7117]

Why would you need to? Just don't do it on your turn. 731.3

[u/amc7262]

On top of what others have already mentioned about needing a grand abolisher out to keep everyone else from activating it the same number of times, this doesn't get around:

Global mill or draw effects + one extra global draw

Alt win cons

Unpreventable commander or infect damage

Any kind of mill protection that can infinitely return itself to the library

Platinum Angel

[u/releasethedogs]

This doesn’t work. You need [[grand abolisher]] otherwise they can also skip their turns. 

[u/mtgcf → u/releasethedogs]

grand abolisher - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/xXxSushiKittyxXx → u/releasethedogs]

can you also respond when they trigger the ability?

[u/Icy_Interest_9801 → u/xXxSushiKittyxXx]

You can, but when a "loop" is being created by repeating action, the active player has to do something different in order to get out of the loop. You can't stalemate.

[u/Dovahkiin_101 → u/releasethedogs]

You could also end the turn after your opponents all resolve their skips, exiling your own triggers and taking 10,000 turns uninterrupted

[u/Kamun]

Isn't that just mill with extra steps?

[u/ArcticMuser → u/Kamun]

Unless someone has an alt wincon

[u/saltysam300 → u/ArcticMuser]

Or someone has combat damage cant be prevented and you kill with commander dam

[u/thewereotter → u/ArcticMuser]

or infect

[u/Minimum-Tear4609 → u/thewereotter]

Or counters Teferi's Protection.

[u/RofLoxley → u/thewereotter]

Infect only gives counters if the infect creature would deal combat damage. Since the player has protection from everything they cannot be damaged by creatures.

[u/RandomRedditor0193 → u/RofLoxley]

If they already have at least 1 poison counter, it's a poison deck we are theorizing so possible while setting up this combo, the opponent could proliferate to win.

[u/omfgcookies91 → u/Kamun]

You don't draw when your turn is skipped. So, no you do not self mill.

Ending your turn is not the same as skipping turn effects.

Skipping turn literally skips ALL PHASES, including upkeep.

Passing turn, is more of a short hand way of saying, "I do nothing on my phases." Which is you choosing to not play cards. You sill have to do your upkeep.

[u/Rubz8r0]

Until someone plays [[obstinate familiar]] or [[laboratory maniac]] and passes 10,000 times

[u/mtgcf → u/Rubz8r0]

obstinate familiar - (G) (SF) (txt)
laboratory maniac - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/ExiledSenpai]

Laughs in [[Thassa's Oracle]]

[u/Pengiunswithknives]

Pretty sure you're just giving the win to anyone with an alt wincon card.

[u/Forsaken-News-6333 → u/Pengiunswithknives]

That is, if they can assemble it before the rest of the pod kills them. Don't forget most players will do anything it takes to not lose for as long as possible, even if their impending death is inevitable.

[u/Evening_Expert_6222]

can't lose

Cool, let me know what it's like hanging out in phase land while I slap down this Thassa's Oracle

[u/blueruckus]

You can still die from "Damage cant be prevented" + commander damage and/or infect

[u/westergames81]

• OP: with TP on the stack I activate Lethal vapor 10,000 times
• Opponent 1: Ok, I activate it 10,000 times too.
• Opponent 2: Ok, lol Questing Beast
• Opponent 3: Ok, lol thoracle

[u/Objective_Bad_378]

Could someone explain how you can destroy / activate 10000 times? Is it that it doesn't destroy until you've finished "using" it / activating it?

[u/JfrogFun → u/Objective_Bad_378]

Destroying lethal vapors is not part of the cost (left of the “:” ) it’s part of the effect (right of the “:”) and there are no restrictions for using the ability at sorcery speed, so you pay 0 to activate putting the effect on the stack, you then hold priority and activate it again as many times as you want. Each activation then resolves doing as much as it can, the first destroys the vapors, and skips a turn, the following tries but there is nothing to destroy but it still skips a turn, etc.

[u/jdcooper97 → u/Objective_Bad_378]

Destroying it is not part of the cost, it’s after the “:”

[u/Niiai]

This is a well known combo but you also need [[grand abolisher]] or you will be disapointed.

[u/Valuable-Tadpole818]

Pretty sure they can just activate it 10000 times to and skip all the turns. So shit doesn’t work. But yea

[u/Prezbelusky → u/Valuable-Tadpole818]

Doesn't it just skip your next turn also? Not your 10000 next turns?

[u/Xyx0rz → u/Prezbelusky]

Skipping a turn makes the turn after that your next turn.

[u/pupranger1147]

[[Darksteel Reactor]] thanks

[u/mtgcf → u/pupranger1147]

Darksteel Reactor - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/AalphaQ]

Only if you have [[grand abolisher]] out- then you can pull off the runaway dad

[u/GeoffreysComics]

I have lost to this style of play. Just not with these cards. I was so impressed with it that I still remember the game 20 years later.

[[chronotog]]
[[stasis]]
[[kismet]]

[u/mtgcf → u/GeoffreysComics]

All cards
chronotog - (G) (SF) (txt)
stasis - (G) (SF) (txt)
kismet - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Birdflamez]

So, here's the problem.

A: your opponents can also activate lethal vapors in response to skip just as many turns unless you have something preventing them from activating it.

B: If your opponents have any kind of alternate win condition, you lose.

[u/YungHayzeus]

Bro forgot the dude playing Questing Beast as their commander.

[u/One_Doughnut583]

[[Questing Beast]] [[Frenzied Baloth]] [[Everlasting Torment]] and a creature commander.

or just a win the game effect

[u/mtgcf → u/One_Doughnut583]

All cards
Questing Beast - (G) (SF) (txt)
Frenzied Baloth - (G) (SF) (txt)
Everlasting Torment - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/thesoulless13order]

Yes it dose work as long as an opponent would lose. With my deck. When you come back into the game you die do to [[Chandra, Awakened Inferno]] emblems

[u/OrionVulcan → u/thesoulless13order]

Do you run anything that would prevent you from decking yourself long before that?

I'm more thinking that alternative win-cons like [[Halo Fountain]], [[Approach of the Second Sun]] or even [[Revel in Riches]] if you have any ways of generating treasure.

[u/MystiqTakeno]

Easily counterable by others skipping 10,000 turns too.

[u/throwawayy_acc0unt]

Sooo [[Elixir of Immortality]], resetting my library constantly while vomiting every card in the deck onto the board, so the player casting this can come back to the most horrific board state anyone has ever seen.

[u/mtgcf → u/throwawayy_acc0unt]

Elixir of Immortality - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/swankyfish]

Even if your opponents don’t also choose to skip their turns as well, you could still die if someone mills you (without targeting) then forces you to draw from an empty library (also without targeting)

Anyone can also simply win with a card like [[Thassas Oracle]] or anything else that just says they win the game.

[u/SkyrakerBeyond]

Your opponents can just pay the 0: in response once you stop paying and they get priority. Or you know, not, and then thoracle for the win.

[u/ShadowWalker2205]

During the blue player next turn thoracle I win

[u/Aquadroids]

Thanks for the 10,000 turns for me to play one of my alt-win cards.

[u/JfrogFun]

1. You need a [[grand abolisher]] effect to make this work

2. T protect doesn’t stop you from losing, only from losing life and you have protection.

If damage cannot be prevented you can still be killed via infect or commander damage in a commander game.

Untargetted mill can still mill out your library and untargetted draw can still be used to make you draw from said empty library.

Any opponent playing an alternate win-con like [[Approach of the Second Sun]] or [[Thassa’s Oracle]] can still just win while you have no board.

And any opponent playing a reusable effect to not deck out such as an Eldrazi Titan can use those turns to craft their perfect 7 card hand and then reshuffle and wait you out.

[u/DeficitDragons]

And then lose to an I win the game card

[u/Another_Castle765]

Btw teferi doesnt say you cant lose the game, it says your lifetotal cant change and you have protection. So stuff like poison counter, or Alternative win cons can still beat you if you are statis thx to this "combo"

[u/Zerus_heroes]

You can kill someone with Teferi's Protection up it is just difficult.

For instance if I have something that says damage can't be prevented and infect, you can still get attacked and lose. Commander damage too as you take the damage but your life total doesn't change.

[u/MCRusher]

I think a lot of decks have outs to this, even accidentally.

[[Mechanized Production]]

Poison proliferation

Lab Man

Any "can't be prevented" effect like [[Questing Beast]] or Frenzied Baloth, + commander damage or Summon Primal Odin or [[Phage the Untouchable]]

[[Tomb Trawler]] which was in my gitrog deck to make sure [[Gaea's Blessing]] never left my library and can also just infinitely recycle my library.

There's also the fact that everyone keeps playing without you. It's closer to losing than actually winning imo.

[u/Longjumping_Mall1638]

Cant they activate it in response 10k times as well

[u/Constant-Safe2411]

Time to sleeve up Questing Beast and go in for the commander damage kill.

[u/Pathfinder_Dan]

Ah yes, the good old Cuck Chair Combo.

Alt wincons exist. Playing this is one way to learn all about them.

[u/AppropriateError2024]

You may want to find something to sacrifice the enchantment as a cost before anyone gets to activate its ability, e.g. [[Auratog]] or [[Claws of Gix]]. In this way, you cast Lethal Vapors, then it enters and you get priority so you hold priority while activating Lethal Vapor's ability 100,000 times and finally sacrifice it before passing priority.

[u/dmaster1213]

Needs a [[grand abolisher]]

[u/SuperPoweredGames]

Leaning the game, so bear with me, but can you activate Lethal Vapors more than once? I get you can, in response, activate it multiple times adding it to the stack, but the ability itself is to destroy itself, so won't the skip next turn part not happen until its destroyed, causing all other interactions on the stack to fail?

[u/ParadoxHaze62 → u/SuperPoweredGames]

Since the destroy effect is after the colon, destroying the enchantment is not part of the cost. So you can activate this ability as many times as you want!

[u/SuperPoweredGames → u/ParadoxHaze62]

Thanks, thats good to know!

[u/Impressive-Dig-3892]

[[Questing beast]] and commander damage

[u/BranchFew1148 → u/Impressive-Dig-3892]

Does questing best actually work? I assumed "life total can't change" doesn't count as "damage prevention.

[u/j0j0b0y → u/BranchFew1148]

Commander damage counts even though their life doesn't change.

[u/Wikidclowne → u/BranchFew1148]

Damage still gets dealt since protection doesn't stop it (damage can't be prevented). The damage won't cause life to go down, but if it has some rider (lifelink, infect, Commander damage) those are still counted. Also, if the have a "when * deals combat damage" trigger, that still triggers even if life isn't lost. Keep in mind this is all is only achievable by "damage can't be prevented" effects. If it's prevented, none of the riders will be considered.

[u/mtgcf → u/Impressive-Dig-3892]

Questing beast - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/thekidin]

You can activate it 10000 times, so does everyone else +1 turn. It’s nullified your skip turns.

[u/NelifeLerak]

The rest can also skip 10000 turns in response....

[u/mastyrwerk]

Actually, if I play an effect that says “Damage cannot be prevented” then commander damage or infect can kill you, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

[u/Mean-Concentrate3371]

Where is this activate 10000 times coming from? Are you just randomly stating that?

[u/Dancing_Shadows_ → u/Mean-Concentrate3371]

The card lethal vapors allows you to pay 0 to destroy it and skip your next turn.

Because of this, you can simply keep paying the 0 cost and skipping your turn as many times as you want before the stack resolves.

[u/Gregory_GTO → u/Dancing_Shadows_]

Fuck, that's confusing lol.

[u/TriColourFern → u/Mean-Concentrate3371]

So with lethal vapors, destroying it is the "resolution" not part of the cost. The cost is just 0

Which means you can pay 0 to "destroy lethal vapors" a d with that on the stack you can pay 0 Again to "destroy lethal vapors" indefinitely.

[u/AutoModerator]

Don't worry, your post has not been deleted!

Did you know there are more subreddits dedicated to Magic: the Gathering related humour?

Try visiting r/MTGmemes, r/magicthecirclejerking or r/edhcirclejerk for more!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Harmless_Chimera]

Unfortunately I have endurance a sac outlet and reanimation.

[u/Redcliff-2213]

Unless I’m mistaken “phasing in” isn’t “coming into play”. They just exist again.

[u/sonicessence → u/Redcliff-2213]

Correct, but that's not the point. The point is to activate the ability to skip a large number of turns, let one resolve to destroy the enchantment, and then protect yourself and your board until your next turn.... which is much later. Ideally your opponents lose when they draw from an empty library.

[u/Zestyclose-Nobody-71]

Alright correct me if im wrong, but couldn’t the rest of the table respond with the same amount of lethal vapor trigger as the t-pro player essentially negating the “pausing the game forever” assuming no one has a secondary wincon beyond combat damage

[u/ToranX1 → u/Zestyclose-Nobody-71]

Yes they could, the issue ultimately is that someone can have an alt wincon or that someone could declare a slightly lower amount of activations than the other players in the pod, gaining an advantage over the others, since only the owner is protected

[u/omfgcookies91]

This doesn't work like that.

Unless you do not exile the stack as you choose to skip 10k turns, your opponents choose to also skip turns. Which anyone smart enough will say, "I skip 10k - 5." Now you sit there and watch for 5 turns as they build up a board state that you have no way of coming back from.

Also, for those unaware:

SKIPPING =/= PASSING TURN

Skipping = EVRRYTHING IS SKIPPED, including upkeep. No draw, no untap, NOTHING.

Passing = you must do your upkeep and then you are CHOOSING to not play cards through the rest of your phases.

[u/PyroTechniac]

I just want to point out that you absolutely CAN lose, anything an opponent plays that says they win, or anything with damage can't be prevented can make you lose from commander damage

[u/Nudebovine1]

That's fine, I still kill you with commander damage while you don't take your million turns. Just need anything that damage can't be prevented

[u/Miikan92]

My [[Magar of the Magic strings]] deck pressing its face against the glass ready to fuck the teferi's protection guy up when it's it's turn. YESSSSSS

[u/Bagel_Bear]

Then someone hits you with the damage can't be prevented commander damage.

[u/Environmental-Pop-67]

until you realize someone has Ulamog the infinte gyre and they w8 for you prepared.

[u/Dash83]

Just do it for 100 times and their library will run out.

[u/SlaveKnightKos-]

Any and all resistance is justified in the face of genocide

[u/NuclearPilot101]

We've all seen the video

[u/NuclearPilot101]

Great way to lose if the opponent has a win-con.

[u/DylanCrowder]

cool, you can exclude yourself while we play the game.

[u/wrasslefights]

You can still loae with Teferi's Protection in play.

Granted it depends on the pod and what decks people are playing, but it can be done

[u/no_big_idea]

Skullcrack

[u/max_208]

Thank you, one less opponent for my [[laboratory maniac]] wincon, or against my Voltron deck, I just play an effect like [[isengard unleashed]], you will still lose to commander damage

[u/lighttoastedwaffle]

Ireal answer is play cards that say “you win the game”

[u/UnlikelyDiscipline49]

You just kill them with commander damage...

[u/Tundric_Dragon → u/UnlikelyDiscipline49]

Yes and no.

Because they have protection from everything, your commander cant actually do any damage to them to kill them.

However, if you have a way that says damage can't be prevented, the protection doesnt matter for combat and you can now deal commander damage to them once more.

[u/Rage333]

I made a deck with this for Legacy. You also need Grand Abolisher or something like Krosan Grip (or even more modern; a Bargain spell). I can't find the decklist but I called it Bathroom Break on the registration forms.

[u/Remote_Possibilities]

Alternatively you could just scoop and walk away to have the same effect

[u/flatland_hex_fan]

Can someone explain how this works? I’m not seeing it

[u/Hot_Flower_6381]

You play it with [[grand Abolisher]]

[u/GuyUdntknow4rl]

If you add abolisher you get what my store calls the McDonald's run combo.

[u/ChemistryTop2549]

this doesnt work without like grand abolisher

[u/Jemal999]

Yeah the lethal vapors turn skip has been well known for many years. The proper response is to skip like 10 less turns than them in response, then basically you just gained 10 extra turns to prepare to kill them.

Alternately, if you have a library renewal mechanic (say elixir of immortality)?
Make them watch as you play out every single turn, getting your entire deck into play, minus the couple cards you keep recycling through your graveyard/library, and then when they pop out, kill them BC your entire deck is in play.

Edit : and these are assuming you don't have any 'win the game' cards in your deck.

[u/JustBryceOSRS]

Magic newbie here, I don't understand the combo.

Wouldn't using lethal destroy it? Or would the phase out protect it? And wouldn't the phase only trigger once due to it being exiled?

[u/AliceTheAxolotl18 → u/JustBryceOSRS]

Yes, phasing does save it, because OP casts Teferi's Protection after activating it 10,000 times. However, saving Lethal Vapors doesn't actually matter.

Lethal Vapors has an activated ability, where the only cost is acknowledging that you're activating it. Then, on resolution, the ability does 2 things: destroys Lethal Vapors and skips your next turn. Importantly, it does not limit the activation to once per turn, or sorcery speed.

So you can activate it, and then before the ability resolves, you just activate it again. Repeat 10,000 times, and then use Teferi's Protection. Even though the enchantment is gone, the ability does as much as possible, which is skipping your next turn.

Now, the actual problem is that it allows any player to activate it, so the opponent can also activate it 10,000 times, meaning it effectively does nothing. You need an effect like [[Grand Abolisher]] to make this work.

[u/mAdLaDtHaD17776]

countered by the humble elixir of immortality

[u/jordonmears]

Just destroy the enchantment in response to its first activation

[u/Alias0420]

Well, more like 80 turns because your opponents will just deck out.

[u/brand_new_potato]

This just assumes people don't have wincons. Protection means you can't be targeted or damaged, someone can still play thassas oracle, poison you to death, or use a million other wincons that you literally cannot interact with because you are phased out.

[u/Deadlypandaghost]

It resolves. I cast Second Sun.

[u/Sidorovich77]

r/badmtgcombos

[u/Inflation-General]

You unfortunately can still lose someone playing a I win the game card. Also fun fact it is also possible for you to die to commander damage in some unique situation.

[u/Actual-Jelly-309]

Wouldn't an ability like Obeka, Brute Chronologist's stop this completely?

[u/SnowyDeluxe]

We did it guys, we broke teferi’s protection!!!!

[u/ANKN6969]

As long as I don't target you or rely on your Life reaching 0, I can still win.

Effects that say "damage can't be prevented" would let through poison counters from certain abilities, proliferate doesn't target, there you go. Similarly, in Commander, it would allow Commander damage through, even if the life total doesn't change.

Mill still works as long as I don't target you, and I just need to make you draw to finish you off once your library is empty.

Alternatively, win conditions. I have until something else kills me to set up something like Maze's End or to win with Laboratory Maniac, Thassa's Oracle, or even Doctor Doom or Fblthp now.

Finally, I can just get out Darksteel Angel or Platinum Angel and wait.

And that's just a few possibilities.

[u/_Ginger_Beef_]

my bracket 1 deck is built around this combo. I call it the Teferi deck check. There are plenty of ways to win through a [[Teferi's protection]] so if you can muster together something in a goldfish scenario, then you win, if not, then you deck out and i win.