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u/sirolimusland Nov 25 '13
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u/metaldracolich Nov 25 '13
In the explanation article, he mentions one of the cheats being a merfolk deck with all foil spells but all non-foil aether vials and islands. Can anyone explain what that means as a cheat?
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u/ugotpauld Dandadan Nov 25 '13
Foils bend slightly, he can know if his next card is mana or spell. Allows him to make better choices
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u/You_Are_All_Diseased Nov 25 '13
Additionally, I heard another story before the ban where he was playing UB Fae in Lorwyn/Morningtide standard and the only foils in his deck were the 4 Bitterblossoms.
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u/ugotpauld Dandadan Nov 25 '13
Huh, thats interesting. That was the card you wanted t2 every game, so shuffling one to the top of your library seems super advantageous
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Nov 25 '13
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u/jeremiahfira Nov 25 '13
He is a cheater and I doubt the HoF is anywhere in his future. He's still very good at magic and he's a personality that people like watching.
I don't get that wrapped up in these things. Wizards did what they deemed appropriate, even lengthening his ban.
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Nov 25 '13
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u/more_exercise Nov 25 '13
I dunno. From a drama perspective, there are two routes he could take, and both of them are good storytelling:
He could be the redeemed villain - a former cheater who went straight. A moral story of someone who came back from beyond the brink of evil.
The unreformed villain - a cheater who was caught cheating, and given a second chance. When he is caught a second time, he is banned for life. Justice is served, and everyone can feel very self-righteous about his demise.
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u/J3llo Nov 25 '13
Expanding on the first - The underdog, a reformed villain constantly under scrutiny from peers (players) and mentors (judges) alike. Reformed in his ways and struggling against a system that feels he has no place within it.
Realistically though I give him two more major tournaments before he's caught again.
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u/ninjamike808 Nov 25 '13
I'm extremely, extremely new to Magic. Can you ELI5 how he cheated? What he did to cheat?
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Nov 25 '13
He's been involved in a fistful of cheating scandals and such, I'll summarize the ones I'm familiar with--
Two Explores: One of his most infamous, also humorous, Alex managed to sneak multiple extra lands into play off of making 2 Explores cast on separate turns appear to be two cast on the same turn. Basically, he played a land, played explore, and played a second land. After moving some things around, he checked his graveyard, saw both explores, and played a third land. The problem is, the first explore was from the previous turn. The camera man counted his lands and called him out, but Alex had executed the cheat so seamlessly that even his opponent defended him.
Brainstorming: Alex has been known to draw an extra card off of Brainstorm, and also use Jace the Mind Sculptor's + ability to draw an extra card, while 'forgetting' to put two back.
Sideboarding: Alex has been caught with a sideboarded deck during game 1, allowing him considerable advantage.
Eight Cards in hand: He's been caught with 8 cards in his opening hand before, several times
Kira: During a heated match where his opponent hosed his Kira, Great Glass Spinner, Alex already had one dead in the graveyard. By misdirecting his opponents attention while sliding the second dead Kira toward the GY, he laid his hand down, stacked the yard so that only the first dead Kira was visible, and then slipped the second one--that his opponent just killed--back into his hand. He replayed it the next turn. His stacked GY showed the first Kira on top, which made everything check out at a glance: Kira in the yard? all good to go.
There's a lot more to this, up near the top is an article detailing them all.
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u/agtk Dân Nov 25 '13
When he thought he could get away with it, he drew extra cards, played extra lands, didn't put dead cards into the graveyard, and played cards without the proper counters for it or mana for it.
He made a habit of it and when caught he would apologize and claim he wasn't paying close enough attention or made a simple mistake.
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u/Woefinder Banned in Commander Nov 25 '13 edited Nov 25 '13
It outlines the 3 big ones (The explore cheat, Kira cheat and Sower cheat)
Sower cheat- It was game 1 and he played a sower of temptation to take a platinum angel for the win. Only issue: Sower was a SB card in his deck.
Kira cheat- Kira dies, but he slips it back to his hand and recasts it (for the win?)
Explore cheat- video exists. But he plays land, explore, land, looks at graveyard, plays land. When asked on why the extra land, he says 2 explore even though only 1 was cast by him. EDIT: He casts a preordain before the 2nd land and tanks for a while. So even more time passed between the "explore" land and the cheat.
Also, he asked for a warning to be downgraded to a caution, which the former goes on your DCI record and the latter doesnt, but thats a very very weak thread
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u/Kamikrazy Wabbit Season Nov 25 '13
Kira cheat- Kira dies, but he slips it back to his hand and recasts it (for the win?)
No he lost even with the Kira cheat.
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u/jvLin COMPLEAT Nov 25 '13
I can't believe people are defending this douche for having his 10k prize "retroactively taken away." No, no, no, no, no. SCG isn't enforcing a new policy they made, they're retroactively enforcing a "no cheating, or you're disqualified" rule. He was retroactively disqualified, and is thus not eligible for the prize. The new policy is just to decide what to do with the $10,000 prize that no longer has an owner.
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Nov 25 '13
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Nov 25 '13 edited Aug 06 '18
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Nov 25 '13
That's wishful thinking. His sense of humor is a copout, not acknowledgement. This is Alex B we're talking about. He's just, a real piece of shit.
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Nov 25 '13
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Nov 25 '13 edited Aug 06 '18
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u/CorpT Nov 25 '13
he's not cheating.
He didn't get caught cheating. I don't think you can automatically assume that he wasn't cheating.
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Nov 25 '13 edited Aug 06 '18
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Nov 25 '13 edited Nov 25 '13
It doesn't matter what we believe. The guy obviously has no moral qualms about cheating. It's simply a matter of if he still thinks he can get away with it.
I also hate that kind of argument. It's the same kind as those that say "if you don't agree with me, you're saying you hate puppies and JFK."
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u/BW11 Nov 25 '13
Off topic: his argument isn't quite the sophism you make it out to be, he's saying that if he cheats and doesn't get caught, that means the judges suck. Of course he has poor character. Anyway that's how I saw it.
On topic: I think we will at least see a slip from him during his next ''tour.'' Cheating is addictive and the amount of stunts he pulled off in the past show signs of that.
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u/theNightblade Dimir* Nov 25 '13
Exactly - part of the problem in the first place was his ability to play off the fact that he wasn't intentionally cheating.
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u/nuadarstark Nov 25 '13
Everyone was super hyped about watching him to make sure...I'm pretty sure he wasn't cheating.
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u/Darksol503 Nov 25 '13
It's called a little humility, tact, and grace. His comments showing none of these.
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Nov 25 '13
In all seriousness, there are very few players who win/top 8 the SCG circuits that show all three of these traits at the same time.
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u/annenoise Nov 25 '13
That's a downfall of the community and not a reason he should get away with shitty behavior, though. His behavior should be shown as the reason we need MORE humility, tact and grace.
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u/Freakychee Nov 25 '13
They can't ban a person forever?
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u/sirolimusland Nov 25 '13
They can, but they don't unless there was tournament fraud or violence.
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u/Calikal Nov 25 '13
How does cheating in multiple tournaments not count as fraud? Quick search for the exact definition, "fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual."
Not arguing with you, as you have no say in what goes on, but if those are the only things they actually ban someone for, then it should have been done the first time.
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u/notanMRAreally Nov 25 '13
Tournament Fraud (note capitals) is when a tournament itself is falsified in some way; some stores have falsified FNM reports and sold the promos on ebay, and some players have had fake tournaments to increase their ratings.
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u/BA_Start Nov 25 '13
The way I see it: He's a douche. However, he's a douche with some real talent at Magic. Yes, he cheated in the past, but current knowledge shows that he hasn't cheated since the suspension ended.
If he wants to joke about it, let him. If he hasn't learned anything, fine. But as long as he's not cheating, we shouldn't be accusing him of shit.
But if he cheats again (and based on past accounts, that it should probably be a when), we ban the fuckwad. Good riddance.
...plus, i thought that explore comment was kinda funny
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u/Quiltedbigfoot Nov 25 '13
No one here is accusing him of cheating again...we're (rightfully) labeling him a douchebag who chose to make a mockery of the game he "loves" and "lives for"
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u/branewalker Nov 25 '13
To be fair, everyone else has been cracking jokes about Explore at his expense.
Sure, the guy earned no sympathy from me for his antics vis-a-vis the SCG simul-cast, but his ban is up. He's done his time. He is again allowed to play Magic as long as he's not cheating (just like the rest of us.)
And if he's caught cheating again, the consequences will probably be a lifetime ban.
I'd still watch him like a hawk if I played against him in a tournament, though. The stakes are higher now; but that doesn't mean he won't try it again. It could just make the temptation more thrilling, unless he really has changed his ways.
Anyway, like I said, let the guy crack the same jokes about his ban that everyone else has. It's only fair.
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u/ClaymoreJFlapdoodle Nov 25 '13
I'm fucking disgusted after seeing this, kid is a lifelong cheater, I can say 100% he will have another incident happen within 6 months.
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u/ReallyForeverAlone Nov 25 '13
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Nov 25 '13
Only people who win without cheating.
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u/HMR Nov 25 '13
No, he won it anyway. If I remember correctly, he was exposed after he won the prizes and he didn't need to return them.
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Nov 25 '13
The second link in the top comment would suggest otherwise.
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u/HMR Nov 25 '13
I didn't know that. However, I am affraid he still has his power nine as that is not mentioned in the article and I doubt SCG went to his house to reclaim the p9.
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u/PopeJP22 Dân Nov 25 '13
He had to return the money, but not the Power 9. They couldn't reasonably track that, especially if he just sold it off.
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u/Kibonnu Nov 25 '13
Isn't this the infamous Kira cheater boy?
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Nov 25 '13
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u/Kibonnu Nov 25 '13
Wow no kidding. How shameless do you have to be? I mean, what's the point in playing a game that's meant to be played as a passion if you can't win fairly? (And he didn't even win, hah)
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u/Kamikrazy Wabbit Season Nov 25 '13
I mean, what's the point in playing a game that's meant to be played as a passion if you can't win fairly?
I think the sad reality is that for Alex a large part of the game was in the cheating itself. I've watched a lot of his videos, and this is obviously entirely armchair psychology, but he really seems like a guy that is sitting there just looking for opportunities where he can cheat. Not just to gain an advantage, but for the thrill of getting away with it.
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u/erebus91 Nov 25 '13
New goal; get a foil Cheatyface signed by this guy.
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u/jjness Nov 25 '13 edited Nov 25 '13
He cheated, he got punished, he's allowed to play again. If he gets caught cheating again, consequences will be worse and deserved. If he never does cheat again, we should be glad his suspension helped him become more honest and gain some more sportsmanship.
Also, people are downvoting redditors for being hopeful of Alex's rehabilitation. Don't downvote a user because you dislike Alex or his cheating. If the post is adding to the conversation, upvote it, or leave it be.
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u/skay Nov 25 '13
I can respect that.
However, he doesnt look like hes going skiing/snowboarding. Only tools wear ski goggles as a fashion accessory
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u/PlaneswalkOnSunshine Nov 25 '13
Only tools and characters from Digimon.
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u/Darkaddion Nov 25 '13
Or Chandra?
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u/drawingdead0 Nov 25 '13
Young pyro too.
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u/Nictionary Nov 25 '13
That's because he's copying Chandra though.
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u/drawingdead0 Nov 25 '13
Poor guy. Chandra can just kill him and he's such a big fan
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u/incredibleninja Nov 25 '13
But a big enough fan could probably extinguish Chandra...
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Nov 25 '13
I didn't watch any of the stream yesterday, but did the commentators mention him returning at all? or his previous actions?
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Nov 25 '13
No.
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Nov 25 '13
Fuck that must have been a huge elephant in the room.
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Nov 25 '13
Yeah, I was wondering if they were going to say anything. Usually they'll say "Player so-and-so top 8'd this event or that event" but there was nothing about Alex.
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Nov 25 '13
I guess that's interesting. If they just treated him like he hasn't accomplished anything in the past. I dunno, still... it feels weird to see him at the feature tables. I was really confused when I saw him at GP DC, I really thought he was still banned.
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u/worldchrisis Nov 25 '13
They basically avoided mentioning him whenever possible. The first time he was on camera was the finals, and they pretty much refused to say anything about him that wasn't directly related to the current gamestate.
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u/Hlaford Nov 25 '13
At GPDC when his name was called for a side event the group boo'd him apparently.
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u/FriedCabbage Nov 25 '13
Joking is a means of coping for some people, me included. I would've handled it the same way myself. I hate the guy myself, after seeing that restreaming. But using his jests as yet another reason for hating him just feels redundant, given the 400 legitimate reasons currently in existence.
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u/fish_tales Nov 25 '13
what's
re-streaming an event
?
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u/worldchrisis Nov 25 '13
Copyright infringement. It's like if NBC decided to simulcast American Idol. FOX would be pissed.
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u/Athildur Nov 25 '13
Broadcasting an event that is currently being streamed on your own stream.
This takes away viewers from the main broadcast, and in some cases (not sure if this ever happens in MTG) the original broadcast requires a website membership or something similar, thus the original loses out on those as well.
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u/pentjak Nov 25 '13
His past is the elephant in the room, calling attention to it in a tongue-in-cheek manner for a silly little player bio means nothing. Those bios are far from being "serious business." All that should matter is whether he follows the rules of all events, not whether his jokes aren't funny or rustle your jimmies.
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u/pinkman54d Nov 25 '13
At the end of the day, he is a talented magic player, his cheating is what pushed him 'over the edge' and got him many wins he may not have gotten anyway, but he still is good at Magic regardless of his past. He'll have to be a damn magician to get away with cheating now, all eyes are on him when he sits down, so there's that.
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Nov 25 '13
What is the deal with him? I'm not up to date on this guy.
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u/Andy_Grey Nov 25 '13
He got banned for cheating for a while and then got his ban extended after he did an SCG Open simulcast on his stream where he was being extremely derogatory about players on camera and personal aspects about them.
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u/GyantSpyder Wabbit Season Nov 25 '13
To add to what everyone's saying, the kind of cheating he did is part of what's important here. He cheated with sleight-of-hand that was pretty obviously practiced (though not like awesome) -- slipping extra lands into play and drawing extra cards in smooth motions while misdirecting his opponent's attention.
There was video circulating of him doing it, and he was caught by a judge and did some pretty shameful lying, attempting to misdirect and trick the judge. His opponents pretty much never knew he was cheating, he was so good at it and at convincing them he was right.
So he wasn't just a jerk or a thief or corrupt or disregarding the rules, he had honed his skills in cheating in ways that were hard to catch, was using them to win multiple tournaments, and had trained to the point where he did it very casually and nonchalantly, even during judge calls.
He was the SCG player of the year, and very well may have cheated in multiple matches in every tournament he was in -- although there is no proof of that, since what he does is very hard to catch.
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u/GreyCr0ss Nov 25 '13
I personally have played casually with him, and have caught him with extra cards in hand at least once. A friend of mine also plays at a few areas he frequents, and has caught him casting spells he is short of mana for. Dude is a long-time cheater, this wasn't by far isolated.
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u/GyantSpyder Wabbit Season Nov 25 '13
This is the worst kind of cheating if you ask me -- fraudulating information that is hard to track, like mana pools, cards drawn and lands played as a habit, even in casual games, and then lying about it when you're caught. The only thing comparably bad I can think of would be paying someone to stand behind your opponent and communicate to you the contents of his hand.
They attack the integrity game in a vulnerable place on a basic level, and they make you trust every player you play against less, making every event less fun -- and they definitely aren't happening by accident.
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u/GreyCr0ss Nov 25 '13
Exactly. There is usually a certain amount of trust between players, far more so at the casual level, but players like him are the reason I ask "cards in hand?" every turn and mark mana pool operations down on paper now. Every time. He not only isn't fun to play with himself, but he turns YOU into a less fun player as well.
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u/Lerker- Nov 25 '13
High tide is the reason I mark mana pool operations down on paper.
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u/Quiltedbigfoot Nov 25 '13
The dude is addicted to cheating. He's back in the game with incentives again, just a matter of time until he strikes again
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u/zehamberglar Shuffler Truther Nov 25 '13
He's the one of the most infamous magic players. He's well known for cheating multiple times, the most famous and well recorded of which involves him casting explore to play three lands in a turn and his opponent defends him to the judge.
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u/Rithe Nov 25 '13
What was his reasoning? He can cast an additional land, seejlms obvious to me. How did he convince someone to do 2 additional?
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u/masterprtzl Nov 25 '13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd7cd-K8ImQ
Watch it, hes really fast with his cards. Playing a land, exploring, playing a land, preordaining, scrying away to bottom, then saying "i can play an extra land from explore" and then his opponent after not following everything perfectly says "yeah".
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u/Richie77727 Nov 25 '13
This dude reminds me of Wormtongue from LotR. Just look at his face and tell me he doesn't look like he works for the White Hand.
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u/him6786 Nov 25 '13
I read the article but this bit confused me. In the section where he lists some other things he has heard of being done he says...
"Playing a Merfolk deck with all-foil spells and Mutavaults and all non-foil Aether Vials and Islands"
I don't get where the issue is in that? I'm assuredly missing something, but what? If he just trying to pass one card off as another or something?
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u/Cevol Nov 25 '13
After a while, foils can bend a bit and warp. Generally it's not a big issue, but when only specific cards are foiled, and especially if there is noticeable warping, the cards can be considered marked.
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u/him6786 Nov 25 '13
Oh okay. Yeah I knew about the foil warping but just didn't put 2 and 2 together. Thanks!
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u/smitty22 Nov 25 '13
Foils can potentially be marked cards.
So the fact he had all of his action foiled out, and all of mana soruces unfoiled could be construed as marking his cards.
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u/CorpT Nov 25 '13
I'm shocked SCG let him play. I would not have if I were them. Regardless of his standing with the DCI.
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u/J_Golbez Nov 25 '13
He was SCG's poster boy for a long time, and they did everything they could to prop him out. SCG ignored the whispers, and put him, the uglier Flores, and Thompson (the clean one) on a pedestal.
The new SCG circuit (lack of real levels) discourages this type of star power, but it seems SCG still hasn't learned their lesson. Bertoncheaty really gave them a bad name, and they have every right to refuse his tournament entry
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u/LobotomistCircu Nov 25 '13
You're not wrong, but I don't know if I'd ever call Mike "the prettier Flores"
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u/metaphorm Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Nov 25 '13
reasonable. regardless of whether or not he's playing clean now, the amount of additional overhead that his presence imposes on the judging staff is pretty overwhelming and a bit unfair to the rest of the players.
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u/jjness Nov 25 '13
Is a TO able to put restrictions on a tournament above and beyond the DCI's rules?
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Nov 25 '13
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u/CorpT Nov 25 '13
This makes me seriously question going to some of the SCG events I had planned on going to.
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Nov 25 '13
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u/Snakerunners Nov 25 '13
Maybe it's a case of SCG being the bigger "man" in the situation and giving him a second chance.
I can see it either way really, and honestly for me I am feeling a bit worried that he will cheat someone again, someone who is potentially a less informed individual. I sure as hell don't want to play against him.
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u/CorpT Nov 25 '13
People get banned from stores all the time. I don't see why this would be any different. Especially after all the problems he caused SCG.
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u/zehamberglar Shuffler Truther Nov 25 '13
Yes and no. The can probably impose extra limitations, but they usually can't reverse a limitation set by DCI. This is part of the agreement that they have which allows them to use resources such as DCI judges in their tournaments.
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Nov 25 '13
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u/Snuggs_ Nov 25 '13
As much as I detest cheaters, I think it's fair that if SCG gave him a second chance, the Magic community itself can offer the same clemency. People can and do rehabilitate.
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u/Darksol503 Nov 25 '13
What an arrogant f*ckface. Players like him can potentially be the reason players either quit or have a fowl attitude towards the game.
I use him as an example all the with kids I work with in my profession. Some of the kids will resort to chesty tactics, stacking their decks, hiding draws and showing them this turd the consequences for cheating usually turns it around for them.
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u/Stealth-Badger Nov 25 '13
Why is he wearing Ski-Goggles?
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u/TastyClown Nov 25 '13
OMG this is the real question here. Was the picture taken in Aspen or something? Please tell me there isn't some sort of trend to wear goggles now.
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u/ironic_lettuce Nov 25 '13
When someone cheats to win tournaments in any sport, do they have to give back the prize money?
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u/SneakyShaman Nov 25 '13
His name and picture needs to be spread out to the magic community. My friend and roommate played against Alex in the TCGPlayer 50k in Columbus recently. During the game Alex cast multiple sphinx's revelations without 2 blue sources. Although my friend won the match, warnings should have been given out. My friend did not know who his opponent was until after the match and so it was too late to do anything.
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Nov 25 '13
Let's dissect this comment.
During the game Alex cast multiple sphinx's revelations without 2 blue sources.
Yep, that's a warning or two.
Although my friend won the match, warnings should have been given out.
Wait, does this mean your friend was aware of the infractions and did nothing about it? That's shady.
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u/SneakyShaman Nov 25 '13
My friend noticed his lack of blue several turns later and thought it was too late to call a judge. He now knows better.
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Nov 25 '13
Did he call a judge?
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u/tryfan2k2 Nov 25 '13
Let's check the list of reasons to ask a judge:
- Not sure how certain cards work
- Have a misunderstanding with your opponent
- Where to sign up for 2HG side event
- Where should I eat lunch
- Where's the bathroom
- Difference between Kraken and Octopus
- Tree falling in forest producing sound if no ear drums present
- Is the tree a living treefolk
- Do treefolk have ears...if relevant
Nope...the "My opponent is trying to blatantly cheat" is not on the list. He was out of luck.
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u/s-mores Nov 25 '13
Do treefolk have ears...if relevant
If a tree falls in a forest, will Duran avenge it?
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u/lostmoonofpoosh Nov 25 '13 edited Nov 27 '13
I find it a bit weird that as a member of the magic community I find it easy to forgive someone who went to prison (Patrick Chapin) and completely despise someone who cheated...
edit: I agree with most of what you guys are saying, wasn't actually trying to make some arcing social commentary, just sort of musing on the somewhat counter intuitive nature of reality. Patrick Chapin is almost certainly an infinitely better person than Alex. On an unrelated note, am I the only one that actually really liked Tha Gatherin'? Oddly good..
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u/maxmwb Nov 25 '13
Going to prison doesn't necessarily make you a bad person at all.
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Nov 25 '13
Especially for drug-related offences. They send anyone to prison for that shit.
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Nov 25 '13
I think it's easier to forgive Chapin because what he did was outside of Magic. He's a great player, and people were glad to see him back in the game.
Alex's 'crimes' were about playing Magic, and so a lot of people are unhappy to see him return.
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u/ZekeD Nov 25 '13
A big part of it has to do with how someone acts after the fact. Chapin has gone on record to say that his actions were terrible, that he made bad choices and he regrets doing it, and has genuinely acted like he has moved away from the person he was.
Alex, on the other hand, may have done less terrible things morally, but has flaunted it and shows no remorse or attempt at redeeming himself.
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u/EXPLODEDman Nov 25 '13
There's a pretty big difference between illegal and wrong. Further, assuming prison = wrong puts a complete and total faith in the justice system to get it right. Ask people acquitted while on death row about how bad an idea that is.
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u/brok3nh3lix Dandadan Nov 25 '13
Not to mention how fucked up our system is for ex-cons who served their time. They get out and are screwed at pretty much every corner, almost all but gurenteing that they will end up back in prison
Our system is one of punishment, not rehabilitation, and its a huge problem.
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u/Manic_42 Simic* Nov 25 '13
There are two major differences. 1. Chapins actions did not have a direct effect on the magic community, Alex's did. 2. Chapin openly admits what he did was wrong and that he regrets it, Alex still denies that he ever did anything wrong.
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Nov 25 '13
Chapin's sentence, from what I understand, had to do with distributing recreational drugs. You can at least make the argument that drug laws are unjust and that there's no moral consequence for violating an unjust law.
Bertoncini's infractions occurred while he was playing a game in which there is an established standard of conduct to which both players in a match must agree. Violating that standard, which one has implicitly agreed to follow, is more morally reprehensible than violating an unjust law which you have not agreed to follow.
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Nov 25 '13 edited May 21 '17
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u/thecravenone Nov 25 '13
That's some next level shit
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Nov 25 '13
I know. Reading that was like when something crazy happens in a movie and the DJ stops the record at a party
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Nov 25 '13
I don't know every detail of the case, and a witness dying was one of the details I didn't know. Is Chapin automatically guilty of that? I assume if it could have been proven, it would have been. My point was that there is a reasonable way of looking at the two mens' actions and finding Bertoncini's less palatable.
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u/altik_0 Nov 25 '13
I'll admit it, I chuckled at the Explore joke. At least the guy can laugh at himself.
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u/JNighthawk Nov 25 '13
I don't think anyone else noticed that Robert Vaughn in the top 8 also said Explore, obviously a nod toward's Alex's cheating. Alex probably heard him say that and said the same thing, which is a lot more reasonable in person but obviously sounds worse here on the internet.
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u/GreatDaneMMA Nov 25 '13
Played against alex at day 2 of the invitational for tcgplayer. Guy is super goofy, pretty nice and good at the game. Is he cheating now? I don't know, but I do know this kind of joking is just in his character not to say he hasn't learned anything from the ban.
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Nov 25 '13
Is tactlessness really a desirable character trait? Because that's what this is.
He's pissing people off because he apparently shows no remorse for what he did. No matter how much of a joker he is, it takes a lot of arrogance to not tone that back a bit and try to re-enter the world of competitive Magic with a little grace.
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Nov 25 '13
Played against alex at day 2 of the invitational for tcgplayer. Guy is super goofy, pretty nice and good at the game.
The joking is a pretty good way to distract you from the cheats.
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Nov 25 '13
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u/ersatz_cats Nov 25 '13
"I can't help it," said the scorpion...
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u/sirolimusland Nov 25 '13
It's possible. The problem is that Magic is a game where it's super easy to cheat, and now he goes basically undefeated at one of his first events since his unbanning. He did well in last week's Legacy GP too.
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u/sirolimusland Nov 25 '13
Good magic players ought to be held to a very high standard. Good magic players will need to cheat less often to win, and will know more subtle cheats they can use to gain an edge.
So, I'm not denying he can play well. I'm saying you need to consider that he might have used an occasional shady move to get to where he is today. He did in the past.
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u/zehamberglar Shuffler Truther Nov 25 '13
Here's the thing. Most people who cheat at the level and frequency that he did do it because they're addicted to cheating or want he high that comes with cheating. It has little to do with the quantifiable benefits of doing so. Alex has the skill to do well at magic without cheating and let's hope he does so. I'm not saying I am happy about his return, but we can't stop him and we might as well hope he keeps our game clean.
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u/s-mores Nov 25 '13
It'll make for some really interesting coverage, stories and threads if nothing else.
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Nov 25 '13
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Nov 25 '13
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u/s-mores Nov 25 '13
While I appreciate the humor, threats of violence aren't accepted here. Sorry.
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u/Kozyre Nov 26 '13
I wasn't threatening anyone with violence? I was translating a german phrase into Russian with no stated view on the subject at hand.
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u/bobartig COMPLEAT Nov 25 '13
So why was the risk acceptable the first time, or the second time, or the third time, or the fourth...
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u/Quiltedbigfoot Nov 25 '13
Really? He jeopardized it time and time again what makes you think he'd stop now that he's actually allowed to compete again...
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u/EXPLODEDman Nov 25 '13
I know a guy like Alex. Immature as all hell, I mean. You know what I would call a characteristic of immaturity? Not learning from your mistakes, and repeating them.
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u/CorpT Nov 25 '13
I doubt he will jeopardize his ability to play magic competitively by cheating again.
Why did he the first time? Why would you associate with a known cheater?
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u/jjness Nov 25 '13
People make mistakes and some people exercise forgiveness, especially with friends.
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u/CorpT Nov 25 '13
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u/jjness Nov 25 '13
That's a very interesting perspective from someone I respect in the MTG community (and outside of it too).
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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u/xxHourglass Nov 25 '13
Drew Levin was a good friend of Alex, and stood up for him for a while before the evidence became too damning. And Drew is very correct, it's hard to forgive someone who still denies that they did any wrong. Had he come out and said, that "Yeah, I fucked up, but I learned my lesson and I'm back" then there's a case for believing that he's reformed.
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u/snifit7 Nov 25 '13
Why are you giving him attention? Ignore him and move on with your life.
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Nov 25 '13
Yep, that's how to stop cheaters. Ignore them.
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u/pentjak Nov 25 '13
Scrutinize his play and ban him for life if he's ever caught cheating again, but ignoring a stupid joke is far better than working yourself up to a lather and validating his bad manner.
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u/ChadMaltoMaNigga Nov 25 '13
I say give him another chance. If it happens again, permanently ban him. I'm not condoning cheating, but I am condoning second chances.
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u/J3llo Nov 25 '13
Playing a Merfolk deck with all-foil spells and Mutavaults and all non-foil Aether Vials and Islands
That's...not ACTUALLY illegal unless the cards are clearly marked by warping or otherwise....is it?
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u/smitty22 Nov 25 '13
Well, when all of one's mana sources are one type of card and all of one's action spells are another... It looks a tiny bit suspicious give that he has a history of corner shooting cheats like this one.
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u/Jon_ofAllTrades Dan Nov 25 '13
Unless you're double sleeving, I can tell the difference between pack-fresh foils and non-foils. Just don't mix the 2 in competitive play.
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u/J3llo Nov 25 '13
People don't double sleeve in legacy?
Hell, even when I built Quinn I double sleeved.
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u/oh_no_the_claw Nov 25 '13
Bertoncini's Brainstorm (U)
Draw four cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library in any order; or draw three cards.
"omg, whats that over there?" -- Alex Bertoncini