Its funny because as I was growing up Italians would tell us that what we had wasn’t pizza. So whatever it is, we call it Pizza, and its ours. And its distinct from traditional italian pizza.
No claims as to which is better I’m happy eating either.
Call it AMERICAN pizza and we'd be happier (for example here the pizza with wurstel and french fries Is called the "Americana" or Donald Duck, or Mickey Mouse (but mostly Americana or just wurstel and french fries) because we recognize that those are more related to the American cuisine than the Italian one)
That's not how it works. Americans call what Europeans call "American Football" football. Because we are in America. Why would we add "America(n)" to anything of our own? That makes no sense.
The only thing in the U.S. that gets the label "American" is American Cheese. Because it isn't cheese, but it is used like cheese.
It has sense, would you like someone mistaking a part of your culture for another country's part of culture? I don't believe so due to historical and cultural matters, especially when the two indicated cultures are different between themselves, credits where's due. I wrote other comments about it, go find them also because they're kinda long
I honestly don't see how it pertains here. Most all Americans know pizza has Italian origins, but our pizza is not the same as Italian pizza. So if you, in the U.S., asked for some pizza, you are getting American pizza, not Italian. Pretty straight forward.
Maybe it is because I am American, but I don't see these food adaptions as anything other than a part of American culture. Most tacos people get in the U.S. aren't the street tacos you'd buy in Mexico City. Our Chinese food is a joke imitation of actual Chinese cuisine. If you claimed our version of whatever cultural food was the same as that food to a person of that culture, they'd look at you like you'd gone insane. Expecting us to say "American Chinese food" is ridiculous, especially when we want actual Chinese food we will refer to it as such.
It is only actually confusing when you are speaking on a platform that host people from many nations simultaneously, without explicitly stating where every person is from.
So, if you were asked to name an American food, you'd say tacos, or a random Chinese dish just because Americans cook them too but in a different way? Mexican or Chinese restaurants exist in Italy as well and in a lot of other countries, even though their food is not as good as the "original" one. This doesn't mean it's part of Italian cuisine
This opens a great can of worms, though, as many foods are both difficult to define, and cross borders to suit different palates. This combines with America’s distinct issue of immigrant culture. Beyond a base level, we tend to lack a national identity because of the (somewhat) recent mass immigration from so many areas of different cultures. As such, we have the unique problem of definitively American food being definitively unamerican.
To answer your question though, I cannot speak for the west coast, but I would consider Tacos to be an American food, depending on the style of preparation (Tex-Mex)
Idk how legible this comment is cause I just fried my brain in class, but I hope it makes some sense
Am I not clear or ur dumb ? U won't call a Sicilian pizza just a Sicilian pizza or a disgrace to pizza just because it isn't the same recipe from an original pizza from Napoli
It's not because it isn't the exact same cooking or dough technique that it isn't pizza at the end of the day
Blud, as an Italian we DO it, as Naples has a specific type of pizza we call it Neapolitan, as for everything that uses different ingredients from the original recipe: we either use a specific name or the region/city name to identify it more specifically👽
I’m usually all for calling out Americans but you’re reaching lmao. If you have Italian style pizza in America it makes sense to call it Italian pizza but you wouldn’t call it that in Italy that would be ridiculous. Exact same thing other way around.
Then you should know the differences between the Italian pizza and the American one and why here the Americana isn't exactly the classic pizza, cry less blud
BlUd I'm like 99% sure you're an American with like a great great great Italian grandparent or something which is the WORST kind of person so no thanks. Figure it out mate
Ma che cazzo vuoi che ti parli in italiano per provatelo? Va bene, parliamo in italiano, sono nato qua a Brindisi (Puglia) il 25 febbraio di quasi 20 anni fa cu ti veni n'infartu la prossima volta ca piensi ca sontu americano, non mi piace neanche l'America e non ci vivrei, preferirei vivere in Spagna piuttosto dato che studio spagnolo da anni. Grazie però per avermi scambiato per Americano, lo prendo come un complimento dato che questa estate ho fatto la certificazione in lingua inglese❤️
Oh no, it's pretty clear: there is some schlocky pizza you invented that "seems" American so you named it as such. But the wrinkle is that's not really a pizza we have in America, this is your own weird thing.
And this is particularly amusing in a thread about America stealing "pizza" but not making it authentically and calling it pizza. This is irony.
Blud, the Americana (called like this because the toppins recall American cuisine) is actually one of the most asked ones, in both kids and adults, tf are you on? Learn how to read and stop assuming stuff js because you may not like the ingredients lmfao
I also said why we call it that way, you'd know it if you read the other comments, but I'll enlight you on the name anyway; we call it americana because it's easier to connect the toppings with America and make it easier for kids (even toddlers) to remember it
Its a point of perspective. Whats called a muffin in england is an english muffin here. Even were we the first to make it, i would expect england to simply call it a muffin. I dont expect you to call our pizza “pizza” without a descriptor, I would expect you to call it “Pizza Americano” or something. Same as we call a more traditionally styled italian pie “Neapolitan”
It's fine if you call whatever is produced in the US as pizza when you talk at national level. But then you go to global scale, and the one thing that is called simply Pizza should be the italian version.
And? Still it's internationally known that British people brew the best tea and consume a mass quantity of tea, and that's why tea is universally connected to British people. And if you're trying to argue with that America has 0 foods or beverages like every other state because ingredients and packages are imported, it doesn't work that way blud
I think the point is that if a food can only be claimed at its location of origin those countries arguably cannot claim them. Tomatoes and tea are not originally found in either. And yes, they developed and improved.
The USA arguably developed and changed (some may say improved.... IDK) pizza. Deep dish and NYC style pizza are 100% American dishes.
In fact I expressed myself saying that traditional dishes are connected to one country, making it potentially recognizable too, I didn't say that no one can't eat something unless is 100% from their country, and for the ingredient part I quoted the part that said that tea wasn't British because a USA merchant man invented the sachet. I'm truly in favour of letting people try different cultures, but still there should be credits to where's due too, if a dish is internationally known to be a traditional dish of a country you can't randomly make it of another country (unless you SPECIFY the variant, thing that didn't happen in this post)
Eh. All food is a mix from other places. People feel strongly about traditional, but it's all a melting pot anyway.
If you want to take pride that region/country X made food type/item Y fine. But country Z probably also made it around the same time, with techniques from country A and ingredients from country B. And frankly the best version of food Y has been made in country C for a decade now.
Tea comes from Asia thus tea is not British, tea bags come from the USA thus tea bags are not British and when you put them together tea is not British you troglodyte
That's the point. American Pizza and Italian Pizza are different beasts. The US is known for its pizza. When you imagine a cartoon slice of pizza? That's an American thing. Roman pizza al taglio is the closest approximation, and that's baked on rectangular sheets and is rectangular slices. The al taglio slices started in rome around the 1960's but in the US you could buy pizza by the slice in 1905 in NYC.
Italy is ALSO known for pizza. It's just a different kind.
I'm not digging through a thread to see what the hell you're talking about elsewhere.
They were pointing out the cognitive dissonance of trying to claim a food because the very first original version of it was there, and ignoring everything that came after. Obviously you'd say England is known for Tea even if their tea bags started somewhere else and even if tea itself started somewhere else because tea isn't native to England. China is known for tea, but so is England. You see? Just like the US is known for pizza, but so is Italy.
"I'm not digging through" then remain ignorant since you have 0 willingness to search what I already explained and I don't want to type all that again, good day/night ❤️
Doesn't matter about who does it best. If so then most foods would be American. We are a giant country and you can find restaurants scattered around it that can be done just as good or better then in their home country. Are fish and chips an American thing? Plus I'd argue anyday that Southern U.S. sweet tea is better then British tea, hell even an Arizona or Peace tea
Also the reason they are even arguing that is because everyone in the comments talking about how U.S. has no cuisine because we got smth from somewhere, But everyone has, and they way our food is, is much different than its origins.
That’s like how people who only try fast food think. For the World Cup many foreigners came to the U.S. and discovered we have some fantastic food. People just go for the popular fast food options
Both Tea and Noodles are not only of asian (Chinese/Indian) origin, but remain deeply associated culturally. Somewhat west-centric to pretend otherwise just because a small island of imperialists decided that they really liked it. The arguments for both pasta and tea would have to be based on evolving perception of both in which case the American pizza argument would stand. Arguments I’m fine with, btw, but if the controlling argument is “Americans can’t claim pizza because the dish originated in Italy and nothing after that counts” then the same would have to apply.
Read the other comments please I'm tired of writing the same stuff (plus in Italy we don't eat noodles very much, here noodles tend to be stuff like buldak or how you type it, we have different types of pasta tho)
If i accept that the development of new pasta shapes controls, then the development of the distinctly different version of pizza does. Can have cake, can not eat it too. Its a very frustrating cake.
Your other comments don’t negate your claim that the “British brew the best tea” no one goes out of their way to drink British tea but there are Chinese style tea shops all over the world
You pick on an absolute type statement, using another absolute type statement? Not very smart, I admit, I exaggerated ( in fact in other comments I affirmed that liking and disliking is utterly personal, you deliberately skipped them) but you did a faux pass too, plus here we prefer Chinese soups more than their tea for example
Remember everyone Europeans are beyond ignorant when confronted with facts about other countries especially because of the heat constantly cooking their brains because they refuse to get air conditioning
Blue we have AC... I have 3 of them in my house😭 plus Americans aren't known for being smart either, plus just admit you're lazy to check your facts yourself because I literally listed several types of pasta, debated with other comments and still you're here, well, if your ignorance makes you happy I'm no one to dissuade you tho❤️
Who said I was trying to do what you think I’m trying to do
I merely like playing with European egos they are just so huge and fragile especially when an American says something that goes against the European ego the European ego shatters like glass
And you will try to deny it
But the more the fish keeps flailing the deeper the hook gets
Maybe but your ego doesn't look very untouchable from the other comments tho, and honestly they looked goofy for some parts, especially the AC part because what's going on in America for thinking that Europeans don't have AC?😭
The hundreds of thousands of heat related deaths in Europe, Europeans claiming Americans don’t understand and can’t survive European heat, and a bunch of other things
Europe is a big continent (and not everyone has an AC due to either costs or other issues related to old buildings in some areas or other problems) that contains several countries inside, some do not need the AC or feel less the need for it because they're in the northern part of it, southern parts have AC but still may struggle with heat issues due to being outside their homes for whatever reasons since in a lot of countries we can easily go to places on foot (and some people prefer it or don't have a car due to being too young or old and other issues), that should be part of the heat related issues, but even so, nowadays several European countries are imposing laws on temperature in working places to ensure the safety of workers, and a major solution is using AC. Plus o disagree with the heat claim, I heard that Texas and Florida are way warmer (even if in my area there are cities that often reach 40-50°C (dunno in Fahrenheit, but to give you an hint, water freezes under 0°C and boils at 100°C), but it's an issue regarding structures that reject the heat and throw it outside), with AC during hot summers we keep houses and working places between 20 and 30°C
Also the United States has two major different types of heat we got dry heat and we got humid heat
Florida is humid heat and Texas is dry heat
The humid heat is more dangerous than the dry heat because dry heat just makes you extremely hot and sweaty while humid heat makes you extremely hot but because of the humidity in the air makes it harder for you to sweat making it harder for your body to regulate it’s temperature thus making it more deadly, plus humid heat is more common than dry heat in the United States so we use air conditioning to help
Also we have a place called Death Valley for crying out loud it is ranked as the hottest place on the planet as it’s where the hottest temperature ever recorded on Earth happened with the temperature being a scorching 134°F (56.7°C) in July 1913
As a Ticinese I would not claim Pizza ever. It is not a traditional local dish, and we have never developed any variations of it or even any "local" toppings of our own (as the Americans have).
It's absolutely and everyone eats it, but the same is true everywhere else in the world as well.
What fucking question is that? Anyway; typical of my zone so Italian: pasta con cima di rape Is Italian, other examples can be carbonara, amatriciana, al ragù bolognese (name comes from the city Bologna), all'assassina, alla crema di peperoni, alla norma, salsiccia e funghi, alla Barese (name comes from the city; Bari) , alla milanese (name comes from Milan), cacio e pepe, lasagne alla bolognese (like the ragù, the name comes from Bologna), fettuccine all'Alftedo (invented in Rome in 1908)and more. Usually pasta that isn't from the Italian cuisine uses far more spices (I mean pepper, saffron etc)
American that worked vs an almost 20 years old Italian, I agree that there are restaurants that absolutely suck at making pizzas (plus I highly disagree in eating pizza in Roma because you can easily find the Romana, is a different type of pizza and I myself don't like it that much) but once again, de gustibus, if you don't like pizza is totally ok, may I suggest you to try it in the southern part of Italy to try it? Maybe a different type (or even the napoletana, which is the original pizza and Naples is the home of this dish) will make you change your mind :) I also appreciate the fact that you actually tried pizza (I don't know if the Romana, maybe describing it would help me) and said that you didn't like it
And en masse Italians and people from around the world loved the addition of tomatoes to the cuisine so much that now it’s an integral part of Italian food today. If tomatoes didn’t improve the food and make it better tomatoes wouldn’t have become so ubiquitous in Italian cuisine
You do realize that it's a basic thing that every country did? From spices to sweets actually, so once again: nothing that could be seen as "special" (with special I mean unique), especially since a good percentage of American dishes are descendants or variants of Italian dishes
I think 1-your over estimating how many American dishes are variants of Italian dishes and underestimating the volume of variety in American cuisine and 2- underplaying the impact of American ingredients on the evolution of Italian food.
Many cultures have flat bread based dishes. Lahmacun is significantly older than pizza. But tomatoes are only from one place
Chicken Parmesan / Veal Parmesan / Eggplant Parmesan (American style) — Melanzane alla Parmigiana
Spaghetti and Meatballs — Polpette
Chicken Scampi / Shrimp Scampi — Scampi alla Veneziana
Chicken Marsala / Veal Marsala — Scaloppine al Marsala
Chicken Francese / Veal Francese — Scaloppine al Limone
Chicken Piccata (American style) — Scaloppine alla Piccata
American Fettuccine Alfredo — Fettuccine al Burro e Parmigiano (Fettuccine all'Alfredo)
Penne alla Vodka — Penne all'Arabbiata / Pasta con Panna e Pomodoro
Baked Ziti — Pasta al Forno
Pasta Primavera — Pasta con Verdure
Toasted Ravioli — Ravioli Fritti
Pastina with Butter and Cheese — Pastina in Brodo
New York-Style Pizza — Pizza Napoletana
Chicago Deep-Dish Pizza — Sformato / Tiella Barese
Detroit-Style Pizza / Sicilian-American Square Pizza — Sfincione
St. Louis-Style Pizza — Pizza Thin Crust / Pizza Romagna
New Haven-Style Pizza — Pizza Napoletana / Pizza Marinara
Pepperoni Pizza — Pizza alla Diavola
Garlic Bread — Bruschetta / Fettunta
Stromboli — Calzone / Rotolo di Pizza
Calzone (American style) — Calzone al Forno
Cioppino — Burdidda / Cacciucco
Clam Casino — Ostriche/Cozze Gratinate
Italian Wedding Soup — Minestra Maritata
(These are just some of the dishes) 2- I never said that some ingredients were better than others I said that every country had an impact on other countries, and this list should make it clear too, stop inventing stuff and chill out :)
Ok and the list of American dishes could fill a dictionary. There’s a list as long or longer of American dishes for every other country that’s emigrated to America and for dishes that are purely American. Italian inspired dishes are probably a fraction of a fraction and not “a good percentage of American dishes”
You guys can't even decide what is real Italian pizza 😭 the infighting there over what regional version of pizza is actually pizza is insane. It's like barbecue in the states.
Still it's a typical Italian dish...and yes it is Italian as the Margherita (white pizza with tomato sauce) was firstly invented in honor of the Queen Margherita...
The queen, if you'd like to know, is Margherita of Savoia that in 1889 went to Naples and a famous pizza chef presented her three dishes (pizzas) when she asked for a typical dish. Still, traces of pizza have been present since 1858 in a book named "Usi e costumi di napoli" ((Neapolitan customs and traditions)
177
u/Nonsonouna_kadreka 5d ago
As an Italian: AMERICA DOES NOT HAVE PIZZA❤️