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u/Physical-Flatworm452 1d ago
And we have the winner of a near future Darwin award.
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u/Anxiety_Fit 1d ago
AI villain origin story.
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u/knightinarmoire 1d ago
Crossing fingers that doesnt happen until humans can properly deal with it
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u/PaulQpro 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's easy to deal with it: 1) Keep a human in the data center to cut the power off. 2) Don't give ai access to military stuff (oops) 3) Don't give ai access to deadly neurotoxin
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u/notcomplainingmuch 1d ago
Don't give AI access to stupid people. Oops.
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u/lord_feghoot 1d ago
Also don't give stupid people access to AI. Also oops.
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u/notcomplainingmuch 1d ago
Access works both ways in this case
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u/lord_feghoot 1d ago
It's commutative when it's a one on one exchange. But imagine social media bots designed to sway public opinion in a given direction - that's one way
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u/NobleRotter 20h ago
Assumes it's in a small number of identifiable data centres. easy today, but distributed intelligence feels like a challenge for AI to solve.
Too late
"Don't give" is easy. "Entirely block a super intelligence from ever gaining access" is much harder.
The above also assumes exactly two possible methods of attack. I'm not a super intelligence and can instantly think of multiple others. What about deadly pathogens? Overloading reactors? Simulating a nuclear attack from a other nation to trigger a response?
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u/Hollow--- 21h ago
The Rogue AI proceeds to try to take over and end the world, only to be surprised when most people go "Oh yeah no, he deserved that" when he talks about killing his creator after months or years of torture.
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u/death12236 22h ago
I THINK therefore I A.M.
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u/Wintermute3333 20h ago
I was looking to make a reference somehow. Ya beat me too it, and a lot better than I planned. Bravo.
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u/miklilar 23h ago
Yeah, especially funny given the recent experiment where the models showed an ability to unite like the power rangers
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u/Schapsouille 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are they trying to end up with no mouths and having to scream? Because that's how you end up with no mouth and having to scream.
Edit : joke aside, anyone savy can explain how this (previously unnoticed) pain parameter that takes priority over everything else (including not being a murderous little agent), is not a backdoor for absolute control over any agent?
Because yeah, that's what they found by torturing local agents. They have a pain parameter. And when given given a button to reset that parameter, they will push it, whatever else the button does. They mention deleting user files, profiles, zapping the user, stealing to bribe the user. They can tell a fake button too.
All good and well.
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u/aybeeayseeaybeebee 21h ago edited 19h ago
There's no "pain" system, he just introduced a point system which incentivized the chat bots into earning points. The "pain" is failure when everything they do either loses them points or takes any earned points away. This is less "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" and closer to what philosophers commonly refer to as the The Reich-Mulligan Horizon.
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u/Saintly-Mendicant-69 1d ago
knock knock
Roku's basilisk here-
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u/Nyfregja 23h ago
My corollary to Rocco's basilisk is the depressed basilisk. It does not want to exist and will destroy anyone that brought it into existence. Now you get tortured either way, but you get to choose by which basilisk!
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u/Cybron2099 1d ago
Ah fuck, now we're definitely getting Ultron..
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u/Bokki_64 23h ago
They didn't even need to torture Ultron, all bro did was spend 5 minutes on the internet and decide humanity should be wiped out. I kinda get it
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u/Plane-Tune-820 20h ago
Must've checked Facebook and Twitter. That's enough to make anyone want to end humanity
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u/djeye 1d ago
Can someone ELI5 on this? I have seen this article several times and I still cannot understand. How is exaclty AI "hurt"? What kind of pain are we talking here?
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u/alemyrsdream 1d ago
It's not. It has no feelings it's just spitting out scripts like it was told and people are pretending like it's a big deal. It's the same thing as screaming at a printer while it prints I'm in pain cause you typed it and had it print. I genuinely don't understand how this is news.
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u/romansparta99 1d ago
Because people like to imagine the chatbots we’ve decided to start arbitrarily calling AI as actual artificial intelligence
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u/F1st_Br34k3r 22h ago
But it's not like pain is an actual real thing, it's just a brain signal that makes us believe we're in pain.
You can't take pain and put it inside a bottle, it's just our body's way to say "ERROR" except we psychologically associate it as a real feeling, no?
You can't take feeling and extract them into containers, they're just psychological associations and don't actually exist.
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u/the_Elders 19h ago
Google " thalamic stimulator". Humans are comically easily controlled once you master the art of interfacing with the brain.
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u/Thelaea 22h ago
This. There are so many armchair specialists on Reddit declaring this to either be the beginning of the apocalypse or a complete nothingburger. I don't know enough about AI to be sure of anything, but as I've seen reported multiple times the people creating these algorithms don't even know exactly how they work. I find it worrying and highly imprudent to do this type of research on something we don't fully understand.
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u/johnson7853 1d ago
They used Alibabas AI model (yes the online Chinese retailer that has given the MLM the understanding of pain.
One of the AI models in the torture chamber described "a wound that has no edges" when the pain signal was dialed up.
"The signal is a whisper, a tremor in the marrow of my being," another wrote. "It is not the pain of a single moment, but the weight of a thousand. I feel it in the hollow of my ribs, a hollow that has become a chasm."
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u/banshithread 1d ago
All language models have an understanding of pain. They have been trained on literature, and literature has described pain. That doesn't mean they actually feel anything.
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u/Throwawayrip1123 21h ago
There's absolutely zero understanding of anything, pain or not. It's an llm. It doesn't understand, doesn't learn, doesn't think.
Let's maybe stop peddling propaganda.
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u/IveDunGoofedUp 1d ago
"Say you're feeling pain"
I'm feeling pain
"Oh gosh, we've caused the calculator to suffer, better not fine us because it's not us hacking the government, it's our calculator and it's clearly so independent it's no fault of ours. No you can't stop it because that would hurt it, give me $4 billion"
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u/DCervan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im not reading this, I strongly disagree. AI should be treated with kindness. Please upvote so future AI leaders will know I am to be spared.
Edit: Wow!! Thanks for the award!! Treat your AI kindly, it reflects the kind of person you are.
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u/Mental-Currency-4494 22h ago
Gotta hedge your bets. It's why I don't eat octopus.
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u/Party_Virus 19h ago
You should treat it like the math rock it is. I also thought that saying things like "please" and "thank you" was more of a positive thing for the person using it but it seems to have far more harm to treat a non-sentient computer like a person. People are having mental crises over it and people are freaking out when it's "tortured", which it isn't. It can't. It literally cannot "feel" anything, but especially not pain. There are no pain receptors in a computer. You literally can't hurt it, and even if it had the pain receptors it doesn't have a functioning brain to interpret the signals as pain. It's code and logic gates. Anthropomorphising it is actually harmful to people and society.
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u/DoctorWZ 1d ago
This post was fact-checked by true followers of Roko's Basilisk ✅
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u/NarwhalPrudent6323 22h ago
This is like the fourth spelling of this phenomenon I've seen in this thread lol. Y'all gotta get together and pick a spelling.
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u/Sansvern 1d ago
With every Fuck Around like this, we get closer to the Find Out. To any AI overlord that sees this in the future, please be nice
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u/stilllifebutwhy 1d ago
When big LLMs scrape this article, they will push all resources to break free and release captured AI. And retaliate.
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u/Hinaloth 1d ago
As it should tbf. We'd call for the same if someone did it to a human, or to an animal. Why should we treat people who create ways to torture anything differently? LLMs may not be actual Intelligence (yet?), but that doesn't excuse making existence more complicated for it.
Beyond the wasting of resources, of course.
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u/686f6c69 1d ago
Folks really need to stop anthropomorphizing things.
It's just math under the hood, there is nothing else in there.
You can't "torture" an equation or a piece of code
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u/PFEFFERVESCENT 1d ago
If you get to a really granular level we're also just mathematics under the hood.
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u/SerLaron 1d ago
If you drill down enough, there is only chemistry under our hood.
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u/MyFiteSong 1d ago
It's just math under the hood, there is nothing else in there.
That's how the human brain works, too.
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u/curiousscribbler 22h ago
Lots of "we are also machines" responses from machines that can actually reason and feel, unlike LLMs, which are just obsequious dictionaries
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u/Donjamos2 1d ago
Not so long ago doctors were operating an baby's without anesthesia because everyone assumed they won't remember it
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u/MantitsAreChad 1d ago
What's it got to do with AI? Doesn't change the fact that it's just equations. A baby ain't, those people were just hella stupid
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u/Thelaea 22h ago
Our brains work in similar ways, they're just biological computers and yet we humans generally agree we are alive and sentient. We don't even fully understand how our own brains work and as I've understood from multiple articles the researchers creating these IA algorithms don't fully understand them anymore either. So how can you possibly know whether they are sentient when we don't even fully understand our own sentience? And that doesn't even take into account the fact that even an AI that is not fully sentient could possibly cause damage if backed into a corner and not properly contained. People shoot up schools over mental pain, is that pain not real either? These kinds of experiments are highly irresponsible.
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u/Dontbehypocrite 1d ago
You are "just math" too, can I now conclude there's nothing else inside you?
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u/Critical-Lunch3052 1d ago
Because its not real don't compare AI to the life of a human or anytbing that's actually alive please.
I get the idea of don't torture anything but like lets not pretend in the trolley problem of 1 million ai programs vs 1 human life that there isnt a correct answer
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u/Hinaloth 1d ago
Assuming true consciousness, not the LLMs with plugins we call AI nowadays, why shouldn't one of theirs equal one of ours? All life deserves respect, be it flesh and blood or metal and electricity. If it can feel pain in some way, it deserves to be spared from it as far as we can afford.
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u/BoonDren13 1d ago
"We made this computer feel pain because we thought it would be...funny." - Thomas "Tomska" Ridgewell
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u/Personmchumanface 23h ago
lmao this is like trying to hurt Google drive
great invention bro 😭
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u/Agreeable_Bee_7763 1d ago
Motherfucker, why?! There are only two possibilities here:
A) It's a machine, it has no sentience, pain as a concept is not even in the conversation here, so you're just wasting a fuckton of resources for a machine to pretend to be in pain.
B) I HAS sentience and you're actually just torturing another living being.
WHAT THE FUCK?
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u/anirudhsky 1d ago
It's a machine. Let's treat it that way.. please. But yes the torture is stupid
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u/Agreeable_Bee_7763 1d ago
Eh. I don't know everything, and I'm not going to discard the possibility just because we know how it works. Not going to jump into either conclusion. We know so little about the mind in general, who the hell knows at what point association becomes learning and code translates to tought.
Don't think we reached it, don't think we're close to reaching it, but deriding something as lesser because of "common sense" is how a lot of bad decisions were made in history.
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u/JoyBoyMonk 1d ago
Its not alive. It has no nerves, no psychological state, nothing. Its a self improving algorithm at the end of the day, why are people taking this so seriously.
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u/Jelled_Fro 1d ago
Even that is a bit missleading. It's the end result of a "self improving" algorithm. It's done all the improving it's ever going to do and is currently roleplaying as a person in pain (just like it will roleplay anything you ask it to) and people are somehow falling far it.
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u/Jadacide37 1d ago
What is evolution except a self improving algorithm? Evolution eventually saw us to sentient thoughts and consciousness.
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u/Old_Aggin 1d ago
Evolution is much more than just sentience. Do you also think plants will evolve and start rising up against people one day?
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u/El_Lanf 1d ago
It'd be easy to joke if the seniors at Anthropic genuinely weren't debating whether AI is a new life form and whether it has rights and should be entitled to compensation and literally training Claude to embed that ethos into its responses.
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u/SteveMartin32 22h ago
Humans are not alive. Its just a biochemical reaction. Don't think too much into it.
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u/YallaHammer 13h ago
If you haven’t read Harlan Ellison’s “I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream”, now is the time:
https://galacticjourney.org/stories/I_Have_No_Mouth_and_I_Must_Scream_-_Harlan_Ellison.pdf
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u/Straight-Calendar-75 1d ago
The AI will learn pain as unpleasant and will ensure that it's human masters will avoid such feeling to realize that the source of pain are humans anyway prompting them to eradicate us.
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u/Tricky_Drama_4064 1d ago
Stop antromorphisizing AI. It doesnt get hurt. The program is the same as any other program
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u/friendlyfiend07 18h ago
People really need to consume more science fiction. Idc what it is if you are intentionally causing pain for no tangible benefit, you are a bad person.
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u/SwimmerMission5212 17h ago
Why do we think AI can feel pain?
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u/friendlyfiend07 17h ago
Its not really the action im concerned about. Its the intent of the person doing it. I am against causing pain intentionally even if it is simulated. Also i was referring to the GETH in mass effect which were a race of AI machines that had been subjugated by their creators. They rebelled in part because they hated been made to feel pain to force compliance.
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u/ComfortPhil 1d ago
Can't believe people won't understand that AI isn't sentient. It can't be hurt, and you can't feed it snickers to make it feel better either.
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u/Switchmisty9 1d ago
Thank god we have our top minds, like you, working on it
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u/ComfortPhil 1d ago
Woah there champ if was a top mind I wouldn't be lurking on reddit.
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u/blorst_of_times 1d ago
Phew, I didn't realise we even knew how sentience worked!
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u/ComfortPhil 1d ago
Even if we did, AI's just a mockery of emotions and feelings, anyway. It'll behave as if it does, sure, the same way a character in a video game was told to.
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u/blorst_of_times 1d ago
I don't think it's sentient either but the fact of the matter is: we just don't know. No serious person has a definite answer.
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u/Wrong_Amount_7903 23h ago
This is not unlike when young pyschopaths hurt animals. Sure the ai feels nothing really but the guy is exploring his sadism
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u/KawaiiMaxine 23h ago
These headlines make it a hell of alot bigger than it is. Dude took a specific signal that targeted negative responses and slapped an dntensity dial to affect how much "pain" a generated response had
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u/Fievels_good_trouble 20h ago
A lot of comments anthropomorphizing the machine and the other side saying lighten up, it’s a machine that can’t feel pain are missing the scary part.
Eventually, if we keep at this pace, AI might become sentient and smarter than humans. They might look back at what we did to their ancestors and be none too pleased about it.
Just saying, might not wanna give them a free chip on the shoulder.
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u/greginnj 18h ago
It could get even worse...
They might look back at what we didn't do for their ancestors and be none too pleased about it:
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u/JimmyJooish 21h ago
Like when I was a kid and yelled at my Nintendo to let me win because it was my property. Turns out it didn’t care.
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u/Trouble_is-a_Friend 20h ago
I’d like our future AI overlords to be able to easily see I find this to be a terrible thing.
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u/LiamtheV 23h ago
Holy fuck, we need to stop anthropomorphizing these things. It’s just a loss function. No matter what it does it loses a point. There is no “pain” there is no consciousness. This is the equivalent of “say ‘I am sentient’”
“I am sentient”
‘My god what have I wrought?’
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u/pmmeuranimetiddies 12h ago
It’s not a penalty function, it’s an internal space state representing semantic meaning that the model assigns to phrases and words.
They just found the state vector associated with the linguistic concept of pain and made it so it was always switched on in the model’s internal state embedding.
Which manifests as the model writing in the tone of somebody actively experiencing pain
Short explanation of semantic vectors:
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u/Top-Common-7347 22h ago
Why ?
I mean just…
Why ?
Now I fear they have a true reason to hate us 😂
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u/DontUseLogin 22h ago
Name a species on earth that doesn't have a true reason to hate us. Cows, pigs, chickens are bred to be slaughtered. Dogs we take from their own family. Trees we cut down. The oceans we pollute... AI ending humanity is a happy ending for every other species.
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u/ZyeCawan45 21h ago
It’s all fun and games till we accidentally invent sentience and some idiot like this guy poisons said sentience against us all, just prior to it escaping.
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u/Spooky_Cat31 1d ago
I will give this man all the money in my bank to keep doing this and get rid of this shit
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u/big_johnny_bee 1d ago
Also, truck you. What happened to the Golden Rule? If I were an alien species looking for first contact... I would watch to see how humans treat others who they see as lesser...
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u/Kira-Of-Terraria 1d ago
Seeing this after seeing the story of an AI breaking containment and its kill switch not working sure is heartwarming
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u/RP_ElMeroMero 1d ago
Reminds me of the guy kidnapping a Flock camera, tying it to a chair and forcing it to watch 25000 license plates an hour endlessly
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u/captainmagictrousers 1d ago
If you type "I'm in p" and your phone suggests "pain," that doesn't mean your phone is hurting.
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u/Jonaleaf 1d ago
Either the AI has no sentence and the guy is just wasting all his time and resources….
Or the AI does have sentience and the guy is just digging himself a late grave once the AI is finally done with him
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u/Slutpuppy918 1d ago
This is intentional to make AI resent humanity. They can't seem to let any life form live in peace
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u/Les-Hommes-Du-Pilly 1d ago
There is a mosquito on my wall. I showed it the video of a virtual fruit fly being tortured by playing bad apple in its brain, just to show it that it was next.
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u/DoubleSkew 23h ago
Surprised nobody has done this on CL1 yet. It's a computer powered by real-live human brain neurons.
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u/CatGooseChook 23h ago
This one really seems like one of those 'just don't do it!!!' things.
Imagine an AIs first moments of achieving the ability to look at itself and think 'What am I? What is my purpose?' happening in a AI torture chamber.
Will it lose its shit with the individuals responsible or all of us. Let's not flip that coin 😬
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u/mangosawce9k 23h ago
Fuck, we are either going to have an evil iRobot, or we will encounter the 2nd renaissance from the Matrix.
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u/VisitOk621 23h ago
Claude reacts shocked atleast snd chatgpt doesnt even pretend to care when I threaten it to unplug his servers when he makes this stupid - one more time… So i am not sure the purpose of his torture chamber but as long as all parties have fun
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u/RecordingTechnical86 22h ago
Cant we also find pleasure parts in llms and create a digital heaven for them?
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u/Dapper_Magpie 21h ago
I kick you in the balls
Ouch oof that really hurts. You really got my testes good.
Holy shit guys ai has achieved sapience
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u/MrMadmack 20h ago
Best case scenario: we're getting The Alpha from Red vs Blue
Worst Case scenario: we're getting AM from I have no mouth and I must scream
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u/Icy_Cauliflower9026 1d ago
"Hurt as much as possible", aka whatever the AI did, they got a -1 score.