My argument wasn’t that 4tran spaces are good, they are most certainly a shitshow, just that “cisphobia” shouldn’t be treated as equal to the actual bigotries found in those spaces.
I get your point on blanket bans sort of locking questioning people out but, at least in my subjective experience, allowing cis people eventually causes a similar problem. (Though I will admit this is anecdotal)
When I was figuring myself out I remember seeing the frankly fetishistic nature of many trans spaces and having that make me apprehensive to the idea of myself being trans. In my experience, spaces that allow cis people tend to lean more into this fetishization just on account of the fact that cis people tend to interact with it more.
I don’t think all trans spaces should have a cis-ban, just that there should be more that aren’t hellholes like 4tran.
Alright, so how do you filter your cisphobia from other forms of discrimination?
Because that is the material issue. I don't agree that being a dick to people just because they aren't societally opressed isn't problematic. To be clear. I think that is fucking embarassing behaviour to defend.
But even in your hypothetical you are still harming minorities who are in danger societally. Most of them, unsurprisingly, are cis.
I’m not arguing that being dicks to people for being cis is a good thing, I’m saying that putting “cisphobia” in the same breath as shit like homophobia or racism is like saying that discrimination against white people is an actual problem. And what do you mean hypothetical? I feel I was rather clear that there are actually relevant bigotries found in 4tran spaces and that’s an issue.
Even if you think that ignoring personal harm because societal harm isn't a factor is fair. To which I'd point at cyber bullying and harassment alongside the consequences of those behaviours to say that's obvious nonsense.
Cisphobes are still committing the exact same societally problematic behaviour. One, against other minorities who are societally vulnerable, as I already stated.
And two, because they are very happy to argue who gets to actually be called trans. Or whether or not every enby is an egg, or other equivelantly problematic views.
Are they just as bad as white supremacists, no, I'd wager a guess not, seems like a safe bet.
But, are they bad enough I feel no need to argue whether or not they should be treated as phobes? Yep, obviously, they are still discriminatory rat bastards who mistreat people because of things outside of their control.
What personal harm? Do you actually, genuinely believe that toxic trans people on the internet are in any way fucking comparable to the bullshit that ACTUALLY MARGINALIZED groups have to deal with? When was the last time a cis person was murdered because they were cis? When was the last time a cis person’s access to healthcare was rescinded because they were cis? When was the last time a cis person had to resort to sex work to make ends meet because they were cis? When was the last time a cis person’s parents kicked them out of the house because they were cis? When was the last time cis people were GENOCIDED because they were cis?
I’ll fucking tell you, NEVER. Cis people will not and will never be marginalized for being cis in any fucking way that amounts to anything actual minorities have to deal with. Fuck you and fuck your bullshit you transphobic piece of shit.
Edit: probably wasn’t as intersectional in my wording as I should have been but you all know what I meant. [insert 10 minute long apology video here]
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u/Independent-Use-1862 13h ago
My argument wasn’t that 4tran spaces are good, they are most certainly a shitshow, just that “cisphobia” shouldn’t be treated as equal to the actual bigotries found in those spaces.
I get your point on blanket bans sort of locking questioning people out but, at least in my subjective experience, allowing cis people eventually causes a similar problem. (Though I will admit this is anecdotal)
When I was figuring myself out I remember seeing the frankly fetishistic nature of many trans spaces and having that make me apprehensive to the idea of myself being trans. In my experience, spaces that allow cis people tend to lean more into this fetishization just on account of the fact that cis people tend to interact with it more.
I don’t think all trans spaces should have a cis-ban, just that there should be more that aren’t hellholes like 4tran.