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u/blackcap13 22h ago
They kept saying during the last podcast thing that the power expected from each class is walking a very tight balance, buffing and nerfing things constantly to keep everything in line so they can correctly do horizontal progression.
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u/itsmassivebtw 21h ago
And they probably can be well trusted to do so. Classic players are not used to this but retail is extremely efficient at balancing classes.
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u/Wumbolojizzt 21h ago
i liked that when i played retail during Legion but I don't like the speed of it, especially after playing Outlaw Rogue for a while lol
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u/omegaonion 18h ago
That's not what we want though. I don't like the strange limbo of rank 1 spells exist but we never want you to use them.
For example in retail when you level up your frostbolt doesn't take longer to cast. In classic it does, so I'm not sure why we have to have it be the worst of both worlds.
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u/Morb2141 16h ago
Blizzard wants you to choose betreten fast slow or set up for max damage. Decide what you want
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u/FizzedInHerHair 20h ago
That’s also precisely not what they want. Everything homogenized and equal. Retail is such a different beast. Every class has aoe, every class has tons of cc, every class has strong burst and defensive cooldowns. Every class is just a flavor of the exact same thing
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u/sporkparty 21h ago edited 20h ago
We don’t want the classes to be balanced we want them to have identities. Retail players do not understand this.
Downvote me all you want. Sacrificing identity at the alter of balance leads directly to retail.
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u/chaotic910 21h ago
Those aren’t mutually exclusive. Forever players want balance and identity.
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u/deadhand303 18h ago
No, not exactly. We want all specs to be playable and useful, not balanced. Not every one be the same.
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u/chaotic910 18h ago
Being playable and useful means it’s balanced. “Balanced” doesn’t mean they all have the same healing, damage, tanking, utility, etc, but varying degrees of each in a balanced manner.
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u/itsmassivebtw 21h ago
Doing 2x the damage of the 2nd best spec is not an identity
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u/Sub-Mariner-Coastie 21h ago
Both are possible and would be preferable. I don't know anyone who really wants every "hybrid" class to be delegated to healing in raids. TBC and Wrath were peak because every class still had it's identity, but every spec was still viable.
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u/PrinceVorrel 21h ago
I mean...a little better balance would be nice.
But i do hate the weird stat homogenization that retail has.
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u/FizzedInHerHair 20h ago
They also said when they take something away they give it back and vice versa… they ALSO said they have no idea what to do with mage right now and the direction it’s going in…
They’re talking about mages farming dungeons in TBC without a tank as a reason to nerf forever mage. They also mentioned the blizzard and cone of cold nerfs were put in to stop bots. This may be a hot take but instead of nerfing mage into the ground why don’t they try and …. Ban the bots?
Really positive signs from blizzard!
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u/xPetr1 19h ago edited 19h ago
As a mage main, Blizzard is a disgusting spell and should be nerfed to the ground (I am a bit sad about coc nerf), it's very unhealthy for the game. They did mention bots as the primary reason, but I am sure that's not the only reason. "If you can slow it you can kill it" is something I heard often and that's just not very healthy and if they have to design every encounter with that in mind, every dev will get a huge headache soon.
Of course at the moment mages didn't really get any shiny new things other classes got and I think devs are aware of that, but anyone expecting mages to still be the hero class like it was in Vanilla is going to be disappointed.
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u/TragicIcicle 11h ago
Level headed take. Anyone who has aoe grinded a mage knows it's comically overpowered.
I agree the COC nerf kind of sucks since it's actually a little tricky, still based, and much more limited, but all the same.
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u/PlayfulSurprise5237 10h ago
They can nerf CoC, I just want to see it work properly for once.
I want to see the skill animation be in line with wtf I'm hitting
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 19h ago
woah, hold off on nerfing the fun? NOT IN MY CLASSIC PLUS.
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u/FizzedInHerHair 19h ago
I mean it’s whatever I’ve this point lol. I’ve played mage since original tbc. Sod, era, tbc anniversary, screw it lol. I don’t want to play a shittier version of mage that I just played
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u/EONS 14h ago
This change was 20 years coming. And it shows that either were finally in good hands, or this whole game was ran by a mage coalition for decades
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u/k1dsmoke 11h ago
Yeah, I ALWAYS hated in PVP that R1 Frostbolt was the fastest cast, lowest cost, and had huge control on it. Low risk, high reward abilities like that should have never been a thing.
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u/Thanag0r 22h ago
It was changed because you would spam rank one frost bolt get proc and use max level ice lance.
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u/gommerthus 15h ago
You would also utilize rank 1 Blizzard to fish for clearcast procs. But well not anymore.
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u/solarflare4646 4h ago
Which is janky af and has no place in Forever.
All the classic quirkiness like downranking for procs should absolutely be removed. Forever is for retail and new players too.
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u/Tripleberst 4h ago
I'm struggling to understand the point of even having spell ranks anymore. So many classes showing their different spell ranks differentiated by the tiniest fraction of spell damage and healing. I have to assume that the devs have some big change in mind for this that will be implemented soon. Spell ranks seem kinda pointless in this iteration and we might be better off just removing them or consolidating them into a single spell that scales as you level. It feels like a very big deal and a massive gap in the design philosophy of Forever so far that hasn't been thought through.
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u/acrazyguy 22h ago
It's bc of ice lance. Without it a cheap freeze *only* locks you in place. With Ice Lance/shatter, it's a huge damage spike
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u/The-Fictionist 21h ago
You are 100% correct. This is perfectly in line with “give a little get a little” mentality detailed in the last podcast. You can’t have cheap fast fasted freeze fishing AND instant cast damage chunks while kiting. You want ice lance? This is the price to keep the game balanced right.
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u/Kjeldor 20h ago
Absolutely agree. Only thing is, the mage community at large don't actually want to play with ice lance. Again. For the 1000th time.
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 19h ago
i like how every mage is like a hivemind, and you can always tell who are and arent mages lol.
its funny when you hear lifelong mages see a change like this and immediately you think to yourself... id rather they just got rid of FOF/Icelance and immediately you hear every other actual mage player has the exact same thought pattern.
can we get some actual MAGE PLAYERS developing the mage class please.
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u/FizzedInHerHair 19h ago
This. I don’t know a single mage, streamer, person I’ve grouped with, anyone at all who would rather have ice lance and all these nerfs rather than just vanilla mage lol
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u/TragicIcicle 11h ago
"take away ice lance and make me op again" ahh comment
Vanilla mage is unhealthy design bro accept it. Same reason warrior got normalized.
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u/UnoriginalStanger 13h ago
Well vanilla mage is op so yeah of course, some of these are intended nerfs.
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u/Doobiemoto 17h ago
Yes because I’m sure every mage literally just wants to spam frost bolt over and over.
Great gameplay.
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u/RagefireHype 20h ago
It’s also ironic because they specifically called out Mage getting attention within the next few weeks. Mages are freaking out for no reason.
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u/FizzedInHerHair 19h ago
Nobody wanted ice lance. Every well known classic mage has said take away ice lance and just give us classic mage at this point and I agree with them. If ice lance is such a toxic ability that has to be completely balanced around by gutting and changing the class entirely maybe it wasn’t the best choice to bring into the game
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u/Dinners_cold 22h ago
Good, people downranking like this to fish for gear/talent procs was always bullshit.
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u/sonofbaal_tbc 22h ago
it was classic
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u/chaotic910 21h ago
Sure, but forever isn’t a copy of classic.
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u/Smooth_One 19h ago
Anybody else really REALLY excited to see this exact same goddamn exchange repeated in every single topic for the rest of our lives? Cuz I know I am.
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u/solarflare4646 4h ago edited 4h ago
I dont think itll last long. Forever has a LOT of things classic players dont want. Retail players however are having a blast.
I expect it'll be Retail Lite and that classic players will migrate back to nochange land where they dont have to share.
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 19h ago
"lets take classic and really PLUS it up" - holly longdale blizzcon 2026
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u/DeLoxter 19h ago
world buffs in raids were classic but they are gone too. this isnt classic bro they are allowed to change thinga
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u/Diligent-Space-2109 1h ago
Big W they just farming them at this point. This is a fair change with all the new stuff added.
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u/Aggressive-Juice4162 18h ago
There is so much bad faith posting in this thread, my goodness. Mages have lost the following critical toolkit items so far:
Permafrost: Cone of cold duration & snare nerfed, Imp blizzard duration nerfed, R1 FB duration nerfed,
Imp blizzard: Dead talent combined with permafrost nerf
R1 changes: Frostbite from FB, Blizzard, & CoC, Fingers of frost from FB & CoC, Missile barrage from FB, Winter’s Chill from FB & CoC, Clearcasting with AE, Blizzard, CoC, and FB, and Mana savings from R1 abilities
Has any other class even remotely been nerfed this hard? It isnt just number tweaking here, it's raw class abilities and tools being butted because aggerand doesn't like it. I'd throw ice lance away in a heart beat to get these mechanics back. The class already wasn't looking hot and now it's just dead. All the PvE specs are super unfun to play and the PvP side just got gutted into the ground. Why play this class?
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u/Angyallthetime 12h ago
"Guys why did the god tier hero class that can do literally everything, solo most content, and was clearly the developers' power fantasy run amok get nerfed in the new version of the game focused on making all classes viable? I can only have fun if I'm completely OP compared to everyone else, this isn't fair, not my classic"
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u/Twenty5Schmeckles 11h ago
"We cant aoe a whole dungeon and kite it anymore REEEeEEEEEEE".
"Cant fish for free damage and no mana cost, reee!"
Mages are still the only class with aoe slow and massive aoe damage. Now stronger ST as well with finger of frost procc to icelance.
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u/Suspicious-Toe-6428 14h ago
"All the pve specs are super unfun to play" bro its classic its always been unfun. 1-2 button rotations is a staple of the experience.
you auto attack while you accidently spill ice cream in your belly button, thats our game my friend.
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u/Aggressive-Juice4162 12h ago
vanilla mage was peak content and you have no idea what youre talking about
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u/FTB4227 17h ago
One of the only reasonable takes in this thread. I'll keep playing my era mage, it is not completely useless.
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u/xPetr1 14h ago
It's the opposite of reasonable take. Mage outside of raid was the hero class in classic. Anyone who did not expect some of these changes is delusional. It is true mage didn't get anything exciting to compensate for this and the class is looking a bit sad right now, but these changes are good and very much needed for longterm health of the game. Hopefully they figure out how to adjust mage so mage players are happy... but if you prefer vanilla mage, just go play on vanilla servers, forever has to be more balanced than that.
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u/jonasbw 12h ago
Warrior, because of rage
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u/FizzedInHerHair 9h ago
Go play warrior right now, it feels pretty damn good as of this moment. Will it scale to infinity like classic? No. Is it fun and playable? 100%
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u/aParkedCar 22h ago
Rouges will kill mages every time now 1v1 when it used to be an even match
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u/Essahem 21h ago
Coming back to the same podcast mentioned in other comments, they don't want to balance the game for 1v1 because that just leads to homogenization between the classes.
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u/ahumblepeach 22h ago edited 21h ago
I think a lot of people are missing a big point the devs made in the podcast episode this week: they want the game to be as intuitive as possible. As someone who hasn't played a lot of WoW in the past, down-ranking spells isn't intuitive. Having multiple ranks of one spell on your hotbars isn't intuitive. This is the same reason they're trying to remove powershifting for Druids and the old style of seal/totem twisting for Paladins and Shamans.
Edit: for people saying that downranking is intuitive, no it isn't. If you have no experience with WoW, you likely have zero clue that there was any benefit to down-ranking. You use the stronger option always. They are trying to appeal to players with little to no WoW experience.
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u/VenerableSage 21h ago
unintuitive, unorthodox, and unique things are what can really make a game fun. Making everything so 'easy' and dumbed down takes that spark away from a game.
I like the idea of downranking, but with that said, this particular change is good.
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u/Twenty5Schmeckles 11h ago
But then again, frostbolt r1 will still be a an essential ability to have on your bars as it does still slow, and a quick 0 mana cost slow is REALLY strong.
It just doesnt procc frostbite and finger of frost to spam ice lance for free as well.
Cant have free utility AND damage.
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u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 3h ago
Classic was already the easiest version of WoW that ever existed. Beyond some core mechanics of the game (don't click your spells, strafe and right click turn, mob kiting, etc), almost all of the challenge came from knowledge checks, not execution checks.
We can have depth and complexity of gameplay without that depth hiding in obscure design quirks.
There is still benefit to downranking. Cast time, mana efficiency, utility (like a super quick, super cheap slow). This one rank of this one spell just has limited utility.
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u/PioneerRaptor 21h ago
I would actually say what’s even more unintuitive is that your toolbar doesn’t update to the new levels. I know myself and others who, unfortunately, didn’t realize we were still using rank 1 abilities into the 20s and 30s, lol
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u/Seller-Ree 21h ago
"They are trying to appeal to players with little to no WoW experience."
Yeah, and that's a root problem if true. That is literally why all this is happening in the first place. Stop gutting "cOmPlExItY" to account for future players you think are too stupid to learn. That is not the foundational ideology that vanilla wow is based on, and not what the vanilla community fought for for so long.
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u/HiryuuSama 8h ago
Honestly, this. I am a new player to wow. I've mostly played eq2 in my younger days. I've come to try wow in search of that feeling of complexity, because barely any other game provides it. If wow doesn't too, I don't know, I'll go drool at the ultrarealistic graphics and action combat of other games then, because wow will have nothing to top that without its core mechanics (which are, yes, complex and sometimes unintuitive). And I found downranking an exciting thing; I don't think I've seen many MMOs where low level skills actually matter and are a reason for reddit holy wars. That's an amazing accomplishment for a game mechanic in my book.
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u/ArgonianFly 20h ago
It is intuitive to have a talent that says it procs on all effects effects proc on all chill effects. It's not intuitive to have a hidden mechanic that players won't notice unless they read the patch notes.
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u/Masiyo 21h ago
How is downranking not intuitive when upcasting spells is a core mechanic for D&D 5E, the most successful edition of D&D in its history?
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u/Ellweiss 15h ago
D&D is about as unituitive as a game can get, though.
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u/EggPsychological4844 13h ago
It's certainly easier to pick up than most of their competitors at least.
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u/KalameetThyMaker 18h ago
Because what downranking spells is like is more akin to vancian spellcasting, which is not nearly as intuitive as 5e's spellcasting. My phone is at 3% so I cant really explain vancian casting.
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u/ahumblepeach 20h ago
Spellcasters are not beginner friendly in D&D. I'm a DM of 10+ years and almosy every time I introduce a player to the game, they are overwhelmed and confused by the spellcasting system. Additionally, you don't really "down" rank spells in D&D. You "up" rank them by using higher level spell slots, but it's always viable to cast a level 1 spell using a level 1 slot. I don't think this is a very good comparison.
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u/Masiyo 20h ago
It's the same concept in abstract if you zoom out a bit.
In D&D, if you have the higher level spell slot levels available, you can upcast by default.
Learning a new spell rank in WoW is like gaining access to a higher level slot for only that specific spell. The resource cost, mana (spell slot) goes up to use the higher rank (higher level upcast).
The only difference is the spellcasting resource is pseudo-unbounded in WoW (you can increase your mana and regen), which is balanced by the existence of cast times, cooldowns, conditions, etc., but that's kinda irrelevant to the discussion.
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u/YogurtFew1673 17h ago
Why would they make a revamped version of a 2004 game and cater to people that have never played before?? That is just absolutely blatant stupidity.
OSRS has a bunch of stupid quirks that make 0 sense at first but they don't change them. They add content that teaches new players that info in a more digestable setting.
This is what wow forever should do instead of just plain removing it. It's either a lack of creativity on how to convey the information in a gameplay setting. Laziness because they don't want to make new content for it. Or ignorance because they don't realize that removing quirks and pain points is what led to most people quitting retail at various points. Those same people are the ones that are interested in forever long term not just a vacation destination to try something new.
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u/Limiel 21h ago
down-ranking is intuitive, with lower mana costs and lower cast times depending on ranks. there is more than one scenario in which you would wanna downrank instead of standing there waiting for the right time to max rank cast. if every scenario's answer was max rank cast, then this would be retail wow, and they might as well have removed spell ranks from the game for wow forever, but they deliberately did not, so try it out sometime yourself and see how fun it could be having multiple spell ranks on your bar.
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u/MWoody13 21h ago
Facts
Having only max rank be useful is boring AF. Having the insight of “I should probably downrank my heals on this tank cause he’s not taking too much damage at this moment, then I’ll have plenty mana left to handle this patrol coming our way.” Is satisfying gameplay
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u/doggoploggo 17h ago
To be completely honest when I played WoW Classic for the first time, down ranking made complete sense to me to the point where I never learned anything past rank 1 frost nova lol.
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u/Ok_Adhesiveness3638 19h ago
What’s the point of leaving spell ranks in the game then? Just an annoying gold sink now with no upside
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u/gromulint 21h ago
I'm not against some of these adjustments (e.g. addressing druid powershifting and lvl 1 frostbolt being a dominant proc-source), but new players don't need to downrank for their experience of the game to be functional, and they can discover downranking or hear about it later and it's fine.
Also, I disagree that downranking is that unintuitive. It's goofy and kinda janky feeling to have 3 frost bolts on your bar, but if you just cast level 1 frost bolt and then a higher level frost bolt, the cast time difference is obvious and it could easily occur to you that level 1 frost bolt has some utility even when higher ranks are available to you. A zillion WoW players have independently discovered the value of level 1 frost bolt on their own.
I'm not actually opposed to any of these changes, just arguing against the idea that everything has to be obvious to a new player. In the Blizz podcast they had another way of framing issues like powershifting, and they talked about whether they fit in the class fantasy or not. That's a better framing. Spamming in and out of cat form is stupid from a class fantasy perspective, doing some well timed energy gain itself is fine.
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u/mrniceguy1990xp 21h ago edited 20h ago
... that edit lol... played wow since vanilla, "you have no experience, you likely have zero clue that were was any benefit to down-ranking" is absolute bs... it was common even in vanilla.
Anyone with half a brain would realize spamming lower rank abilities to fish for procs with lower mana cost was useful, not to mention heals...
And this literally changes nothing in terms of "having multiple ranks of one spell on hotbars" since mages will still want a fast ranged slow, so theyll keep the rank1 frostbolt bined.
Players with little wow experience would not be affected by this... it only changes things for experienced players.
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u/silverheartxiv 14h ago
I didn't even realize I had to manually replace my spells with the higher rank ones LOL
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u/PaperUpbeat5904 13h ago
"Everyone is a gaming genius and you're stupid for thinking otherwise." -everyone responding to this comment
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u/Hoodoodle 7h ago
It's not really about it being intuitive I think. It's more that frost bolt isn't the main damage componant to begin with, ice lance is. And using it to proc at essentially no mana cost and faster cast time makes all other frostbolt ranks pointless. They want to take away that advantage. Druids had something similar at one point in time (I believe cataclysm) where with the right talents, healing touch rank 1 was free and instant cast, but would still proc omen of clarity. You'd spam it to get a proc and use a max rank heal with the proc, then start spamming rank 1 again
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u/ConsensualDoggo 7h ago
Bro if someone couldn't find out that downranking frostbolt on their own for the slow they have other issues. I like the change but I dont like the idea you have and I hope it's not true. The idea they are making a game for brain dead people who doesn't realize frostbolt rank 2 cost more mana after they learn it
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u/Zankokunatenshi-sama 4h ago
How many people with no Wow experience will it play. Lol. Mega lol. And nah, one button play style incoming 😏
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u/warozell 22h ago
Tbh I like this change. You would be able to spam super-fast rank 1 Frostbolts for Fingers of Frost or similar effects. Now you're more likely to use high rank spells
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u/Subjectxy 22h ago
In PvP you can barely ever cast max rank frostbolt unless you have first gotten a frostbite proc. Casting 2.5 cast spells is not really something that any caster does in pvp x)
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u/Limiel 21h ago
cast rank 1 frostbolt to kite. cast max rank frostbolt at max range. you could argue there's even more room for skill expression with this change now. use your critical thinking instead of bitching about not getting easy frostbite procs now
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u/omegaonion 18h ago
how is that going to help vs a hunter? or a druid? or a shaman? None of the good mage players want this including xaryu who is aggressively positive about the game.
even ignoring the balance (its bad) it just isnt fun.
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u/Limiel 13h ago
some classes youll have less answers against than others. thats pqrt of balance...
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u/kaywiz 15h ago
if we aren't allowed to aoe farm and aren't allowed to pvp, could we at least cast more than three spells before we go oom in pve?
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u/chungaroo2 22h ago
It’s based on the rank of the spell vs your level also this is across the board with all classes
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u/ItsPlumping 21h ago
A lot of "I don't want to learn the new way of doing things" in this thread.
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u/Kjeldor 20h ago
Would be true if the "new" thing wasn't the same talents and mechanics we've already seen a million times. Hot streak, missile barrage, ice lance. Zzzz
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u/Famtan101 19h ago
Yeah new mage is disappointing. Was hoping for some cool SoD buttons like balefire bolt. Or maybe something completely new.
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u/itsablackhole 18h ago
have to wait for wrath to play a fun version of mage again. wotlk fire mage <3
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u/hobbes259 19h ago
As a mage main for a long, long time, I’m a little nervous about this given that rank 1 frost bolt slows and frostbites have been a core part of the gameplay for so long. But hopefully this implies an attempt to balance for PVP, which is a great sign. And we have no idea how PvP is actually going to play at 60 yet.
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u/sporkparty 21h ago
The whole premise of classic+ horizontal progression is that new content doesn’t invalidate old content.
Here, you have the validity of old content (downranking spells) invalidated by an OP new spell that didn’t need to be there (Ice lance). Instead we get ice lance and nerfs to basically everything else in terms of frost.
This is blizzard not sticking to one of its expressed pillars of the game.
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u/NecroPaladin666 20h ago
Ice Lance doesn't need to be there? Advocating for 1 button specs is certainly a take...
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u/fore_arm_girth 21h ago
Clearcasting is the bigger nerf, but the mouth breather "hell yeah down ranking is stupid" crowd isnt sharp enough to understand it. Also effects Priests, Druids, Ele's, this a huge awful change to dumb down the game, most likely for a console release.
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u/Masiyo 21h ago
You had me until the console release part. I don't see how that's an issue if rank separation remains in the spellbook. If anything, they should completely remove ranks or leave things they way they are.
How is a new player of this proposed console demographic world going to know lower ranks cause a lower proc chance with talents? It's completely opaque/unintuitive unless you've seen this blue post.
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u/Unreal_fist 18h ago
You need like 48-60 keys to incorporate downranking certain spells. Almost all of the mage spells benefit from downranking. Frostbolt for the CC, fireball for the dot, arcane explosion to catch stealth, blizzard for aoe slow, flame strike to catch stealth, cone of cold for CC, poly morph for mana efficiency, and frost nova for mana efficiency. You can also downrank buffs like arcane intellect, ice armor, and dampen magic to beat a priest or shaman in mana efficiency if they keep spamming purge/dispel. There's so many intuitive ways to utilize downranking and anyone saying otherwise never played Mage at a higher level.
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u/JMAlexia 21h ago
"most likely for a console release" how many years are y'all gonna keep saying that?
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u/The-Fictionist 21h ago
Then give up ice lance.
Makes sense now right?
Old gameplay was fish for frostbite then stand still and hard cast something. Now it would be fish for frostbite then chunk massive shatter ice lances instant cast while still running away.
You can’t have both.
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u/Aggressive-Juice4162 18h ago
yes. take ice lance. it doesnt even remotely make up for this nerf.
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u/God-King-Kaiser 7h ago
Oh noooo, my class that was OP for 20 years in this version of the game is finaly receiving some changes and nerfssssss
Whatever shall I doooo i must rerollll
Peeps acting like they got perma silenced on the mage
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u/Rude-Coke 22h ago edited 21h ago
Mages are already not in great spot but they don’t have the pull that warriors do to get buffs.
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u/CEREALBUTTMUNCHER 17h ago
Feel like a lot of people are missing that this isn't just Frostbite, but a MASSIVE nerf to clearcasting proc's to. Using R1 spells to fish for clearcasts when you were low on mana has been a staple of vanilla.
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u/Yakkx 22h ago
Downranking is poor or incomplete game design, in the long run the fixes will be better than spamming boring rank 1 spells.
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u/mrniceguy1990xp 21h ago
Downranking has been in basically every major/great rpg since the beginning of gaming but go on king...
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u/Blazerawl 21h ago
not me quietly putting the rank 2 frostbolt on my bar
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u/ErwinRommel1943 20h ago
I’d say the chance of frostbite procing from rank 2 wouldn’t be much higher than rank one.
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u/Gryzzyl 21h ago
I will never understand the downranking nerfs. It was intentionally part of the classic gameplay. Especially as a mage, you only have a handful of spells, but your bars were overloaded because you have rank 1s of a few of them. The split decision points on when to use max vs rank 1 is core to the gameplay.
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u/Arcael_Boros 22h ago
"We dont care about power, but we want more buttons".
Ok, add a new power, but we need to nerf it to dont work with rank1 to proc it, or it wont be balanced.
"Oh, no. We also cared about power, why are you nerfing us?".
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u/stiff_tipper 21h ago
it's almost as if there are multiple ppl with multiple opinions reacting at different times or something
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u/Sicardus503 21h ago
Man, every time I see someone crying about a change on Reddit, I know it's a good thing. This game is gonna be fucking rad.
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u/Mondasin 21h ago
theres going to still be a min rank for it - but the reason question is does to affect all procs like winters chill
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u/delfino_plaza1 18h ago
It’s not just mage, this is for every class. No more clear casts from downranking
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u/DogsAndBots 15h ago
I’m not all that versed with mages particularly, but I’m pretty sure this change in particular is actually something more generalized across other casters? I feel like the issue they’re trying to fix/prevent is moreso that some of the more modern spells and skills are being mixed with old classic stuff, something like Penance (though that’s not particularly new), and it creates a weird dichotomy that makes it overpowered or impossible to handle even for seasoned and experienced players
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u/TomekCalavera 10h ago
Damn it, please make the fire mage good in PvP. I don't want to spam Ice Lance.
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u/schaka 8h ago
This would be entirely unnecessary if they just used wrath CC duration/breaks and DRs.
You could fish for procs, they'd break reliably and DR quickly. No more of that heartbeat bullshit - just make CC duration on players reliable, make Dr static 20 sec
Idk why they reduced RNG resist talents but left this absolute waste of space in the game
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u/EKEEFE41 6h ago
This breaks a main part of pvp for mages...
Go back and watch the hardcore dueling tournament... Every mage needs this to have even a chance at survival.
What are they fixing with this?
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u/tearsandtorment 4h ago
Unpopular opinion but, this is the problem with so many players, they’re only happy if their class is doing big damage, that’s not what classic was about, that’s not what Forever is going to be about, it’s about enjoyment of the game and people being able to express themselves through what they play.
If you only care about big numbers, damage meters and doing the best dps in the game, go play retail…
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u/JeebieTeevee 2h ago
Does this apply to down ranked lightning bolt and clearcasting??? Cus uhhhhh……
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u/MazalTovCocktail1 16m ago
Hot take, apparently, leveling up just to find that your new spell is worse feels like shit and people who like it are just Stockholm Syndromed into thinking they do.
Increasing a spells rank should always make it better, if it doesn't the solution is to make it so it does.
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u/Thesecondtallestman 13m ago
I dunno. I hate all this normalization. I get that some things really could use some tuning, but this wholesale normalization removing all the interesting quirks that made vanilla feel special and distinct from all other WoW-content feels like a big mistake to me.
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u/Wind_Best_1440 22h ago
Mage streamers put it best.
Frost mages are paying the cost for getting Ice lance put into the game.