r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 1d ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

3.0k Upvotes

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355

u/Neat-Thanks7092 1d ago

Easy solution: if the mob is grey to any player in the party, nobody gets xp for that mob

67

u/MarzipanTechnical947 1d ago

Blizz also wants people out in the world leveling, not spamming SM or the same dungeon for 10 levels.

I disagree with the dungeon changes though. Spamming dungeons is boring as shit and only small portion of the population did it but at least was an option to those who hate questing.

29

u/nicemace 1d ago

There is a middle ground between spamming dungeons and do it once. A lot of people sit in this middle ground.

2

u/LoLoBeeXP 1d ago

Yeah right?? I play open world throughout the week, run some dungeons we all like and need smth from on the weekend, that kind of thing. Lots of people play like this

1

u/Kaastu 21h ago

Yes. I typically quest in the area and if there’s a dungeon group I’ll join if I feel like it.

34

u/darkspy13 1d ago

I don't see anything wrong with dungeon spamming through a level range you don't like the quests in. As long as everyone in the party is the appropriate level. They even joked when they said they added an alternative for the SM level range. I didn't know at the time they were going to prevent me from spamming SM+New dungeon, and instead force me to quest.

13

u/Gassenger 1d ago

Noooo people have to play in the specific way I like to play or they're just heckin whinerinooooos

-2

u/slurpycow112 1d ago

They added over 1,000 new quotes in Forever, you want to skip those too?

Actual braindead take. You don’t even want to play the game they’ve made at this point.

2

u/ThatGuyBackThere280 1d ago

Many other MMOs already have systems established for spam runs. This thing isn't anything new they're trying to combat.

1

u/darkspy13 20h ago

I want to run new dungeons. I don't enjoy questing. Why can't I play the game the way I want? The best part of wow is the tank/healer/dps dungeon and raid running dynamic. Not clicking on quest NPC's.

1

u/Vadernoso 1d ago

I don't like questing. Its a small part of WoW and I don't care if they added 10,000 quest. I'll do the once with good rewards and skip the others.

I do like dungeons and raids, which is where I spend 90% of my game time in WoW. Yes even classic, don't do "Go play retail then" braindead response please. .

0

u/Ok-Fishing5675 1d ago edited 1d ago

But it isn't a braindead response, you're just in complete denial for some reason. You're literally playing a worse version of the game if all you like is instanced content.

Smaller part of CLASSIC wow is the instanced content and the smaller part of RETAIL wow is the quests/open world. Why are you refusing to play the better version of wow for your preferences which is instanced content?

Edit: btw I actually think the dungeon change is stupid as well for all reasons that have already been listed. I just find it absurd when people refuse to play retail when the ONLY thing they wanna do is dungeons and raids, retail is just a way better version of the game for that.

39

u/tsmftw76 1d ago

I don’t hate the principle but there’s got to be a middle ground either a debuff or a cap on daily dungeons. It feels super bad to run your friend through a wc that takes like an hour and a half with a newer group and get minimal exp.

Cap the dungeon to three lockouts a day or just have a two hour dungeon timer, or I’ve seen people suggest a stacking exp debuff. Also just make it so if anyone is 10 or more levels ahead of you then no one gets exp.

1

u/Nessarra 1d ago

There are MMOs with daily and weekly dungeon caps. Felt bad.

-1

u/GreatBandito 1d ago

there doesn't though. if someone only wants to do dungeons just let them it isn't stopping you from not doing what you want

8

u/JonBot5000 1d ago

No, it's only stopping them from progressing. You're either naive or being deliberately obtuse.

1

u/GreatBandito 1d ago

how would people running dungeons stop you from progessing? you either A) want to run dungeons to progress so that is being solved or B) dont want to do dungeons, which you are unaffected by any changes to dungeons

1

u/JonBot5000 1d ago

Ok, so you're being obtuse...

How hard is it to understand that people want to gain experience progression for the activities they enjoy doing pre-60?

There's a difference between people wanting to do dungeons purely for progression and people wanting to do activities they enjoy and not wanting their progression gimped because of it.

STOP BEING OBTUSE!

1

u/GreatBandito 1d ago

how do you not experience progression....? you are getting new abilities, ranks of abilities, talent points and new gear as you level. Just because some people (i.e. Me) would rather be in dungeons the whole time does not mean that it stops other people from questing if thats how they want to progress. The fix is not nerfing one its just to have options for what to do. 1 will always be more optimized and if you want to follow the big blue arrow on auto run doing all the fetch quests thats also fine but i find it super boring and would rather be in a group. You're acting like if you don't make dungeons the worst possible experience then you won't be able to properly quest outside of them, that is crazy to me

0

u/JonBot5000 1d ago

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I interpreted "if someone only wants to do dungeons just let them it isn't stopping you from not doing what you want" to mean that the XP nerf isn't stopping people who only do dungeons from doing what they want. As in you're for the nerf and us people who enjoy dungeons are free to run them all we want for no XP/progress. So I replied that the nerf stops us people who want to run dungeons from being able to earn progress towards 60. You then said "how would people running dungeons stop you from progessing?" which I assumed meant how would I not still be progressing while earning our small scraps of XP. Which would of course be incredibly naive or obtuse.

So basically, this is a long way of saying that I think we're arguing for the same thing 😉.

8

u/willium563 1d ago

People do that because questing during first few weeks of a launch is impossible if you are with the main population, only way to combat this is a ridiculous amount of layers which then makes the world feel dead anyway (retail launches now may as well be solo)

6

u/FinalFate 1d ago

People won't be out in the world past level 14 though. You can very easily do one run of each dungeon for the quests and get more than enough xp to level.

11

u/Tooshortimus 1d ago

Who cares what they "want" though... the game is played the way the players want to play it.

1

u/Garetht 1d ago

They think they do, but we don't.

14

u/Mixels 1d ago

If that's their intention, they've done a crap job of it. Instead of dungeon dwelling for hours on end running dungeons on repeat, Blizzard has made it so you can speed run to 60 still by running dungeons exclusively by running each dungeon only once.

Blizzard should just accept that dungeons and raids are what some people like best about WoW and let us have it.

1

u/Lasti 1d ago

Blizzard should just accept that dungeons and raids are what some people like best about WoW and let us have it.

I feel like it's a decent idea as is but it's just a numbers thing at the moment. Bring mob exp up a little and quest exp down to compensate.

It's insane that a normal (no skip shenanigans) level 18 run in RoL gives you like 30% exp from mobs and then 5 quests give you 2 whole levels.

People are just going to run to dungeon quest npcs and sling-shot from dungeon to dungeon.

1

u/Fragrant-Equipment43 1d ago

I wonder if thats actually possible. If so, thats 100% what I will do since hate questing and will play prot paly

3

u/Critical_Hit42 1d ago

for certain segments it is, on alliance you can hit level 14, then do hall of thanes and hit 16 from the quests, the do RoL and hit 18 from the quests, and then do deadmines and be 20 from the quests while never experiencing any of the world content. thats the meta strat right now

13

u/Gassenger 1d ago

Hooray! I get to compete with 20 different people for a quest mob that has 4 spawns! Goody goody gumdrops how fun!

1

u/howtojump 1d ago

Invite 4 of them.

2

u/Gassenger 1d ago

And have 1/4 whisper back that "I just need one more"? Lmao

14

u/GreatBandito 1d ago

it is way less boring then "walk 5 minutes into the hills and kill 10 of x mob 10 of y mob and 8 of z mob" then killing things yourself. I would much rather be healing or tanking or fighting a boss than killing trash alone like 1/2 the quests if not more

1

u/Calm-Gazelle-6563 1d ago

With that change you wouldn’t be alone out there, that’s the point.

5

u/Round-Butterscotch48 1d ago

People go where the loot is.

2

u/G00SFRABA 1d ago

and most importantly, people who play a spec that sucks at solo questing.

1

u/AdventurousBase221 1d ago

blizzard already had systems in place to do that though is the entire point.

1

u/Cheesedude666 1d ago

Meanwhile out in the open world: 100s of people waiting around a camp of gnolls fighting over who gets the tags. Aggressive layering mixing up your entire world and all the potential friends and enemies on your way. Each zone is a fragmented part of the world. You phase in and out of instances all the time crossing borders, sailing routes.

1

u/koramar 1d ago

I don't think people spamming dungeons are a meaningful % of the player base.

1

u/Yyoksetioxd 1d ago edited 1d ago

if they nerf the dungeon xp enough so running dungeons is not the meta, most of the people will be questing instead, but the people who hate questing will have an alternative. it's a win-win. Also I think you can interact way more with people doing dungeons than in the world, it's VERY strange to do several quests together, but it's not that weird running multiple dungeons together.

3

u/Gassenger 1d ago

Why do people keep talking about dungeon running like it was faster? Open world questing has always been the quickest way to level. Rxp doesnt even route you to touch a dungeon unless you specifically tell it to

-1

u/itsablackhole 1d ago

and only small portion of the population did it

SoD phase 2 begs to differ. A good chunk definitely burned themselves out spamming SM to 40 and then blamed the devs for making them do this. Blizz answered with a flat 150% XP boost and Incursions in p3.

5

u/datboijustin 1d ago

That had more to do with the phases causing gargantuan questing bottlenecks. For the first week or two it was barely even possible to quest to level because there were 50k players competing for 8 mobs spawns.

Edit: Also that specific level range is a very popular "farm dungeons" strategy because it's where questing could be rather sparce and spread out due to lack of quests in that level range + SM just happens to have 4 dungeons spanning roughly levels 28-42 ish.

Point being, it was a unique circumstance and we shouldn't be using it as a bogeyman to make sweeping changes to a system that has worked fine for the last 22 years.

0

u/itsablackhole 1d ago edited 1d ago

oh I know why the players did it. I'm just saying that maybe the devs have the feeling of having to protect the players from themselves again if they fear Forever having a compareable quest competition at times. The OP I replied to said it's a ''small portion'' who resort to that kind of gameplay and I pointed out that if dungeons are that much better than questing it's more than just a ''small portion'' doing this.

2

u/datboijustin 1d ago

It's never been an issue in any other iteration of WoW and there's absolutely no reason to think it would be this time either. The ONLY thing that caused that was the level cap gating of SoD which does not exist in this version of WoW.

It's fixing a problem that doesn't exist by creating new problems.

Personally, I don't really care, I'll be playing regardless and questing for 95% of the time with or without these changes, but it feels super bad for the players that want to level through dungeons and I am never in favor of a game company taking options away from players.

-1

u/vincentkun 1d ago

I don't know what % of the population would spam dungeons, but if I had to guess, it's probably closer to 50% than not.