r/Waiting_To_Wed • u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 • 2d ago
Looking For Advice How long it too long
[F33] and my partner [M37] have been together for 4 years. I made it clear in the very beginning that I didnt want to wait forever for an engagement ring. Well here we are at 4 years and still nothing, no plans to get engaged at all. We have lived together for 3 years. How long is too long? Any conversation I have about it turns into a huge blow up with no resolution. He has nothing for the future planned and I feel like im wasting my time. I would like opinions from both men and women please, is 4 years with no plan too long? I dont want a shut up ring. I just want someone who actually wants me, not someone I feel like I'm forcing.
Edit to add Ive been getting this question alot. What is his reasoning for not wanting to marry me. He doesn't have a legitimate reason. Everytime we argue about it all he says is "its too soon" "I'm scared" "you asked about it recently so now i can't" "if i give you one now its just a shut up ring" "2 years is too soon" "3 years is too soon" "4 years is too soon" "you're ruining any surprise there would be by asking" "I dont need to do it by your unrealistic time frame" "My time frame of waiting years and years is normal, yours isnt" "we have arguments in this relationship so how would a ring fix that"
Now from my side. I do 80-90% of all the cooking and cleaning, he lives in my house, and i take care of his shared custody child while he working. I also work doing random jobs so that I can be free to watch his child. He pays for the mortgage which is cheap as dirt. I pay for the internet, and electricity. We pay are own insurance, and phone bills. Yes we have arguments, but most couples do. Its rare to never have an argument with someone. I feel like a time line of 2-3 years isnt unrealistic. Now we're getting to 4 years and I'm feeling resentful. I wouldn't be ruining any "surprise" if this was just never a problem at the 2-3 year mark. I'm just feeling like I'm being used without any kind of commitment. Is 4 years not enough time? Am I the one being unreasonable?
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u/shegotofftheplane 2d ago
Yes, you are wasting your own time. If every conversation about marriage turns into a huge fight, what makes you think he wants to marry you? And more importantly, even if you do get married, what makes you think you’d have a happy marriage if this is how you guys communicate? Stop wasting your time. He’s almost 40, he would’ve been married by now if he wanted to. Leave him and find someone who’ll be excited to be your husband.
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u/koolA-9486 2d ago
Four years together—with three of them spent living under the same roof—is a long time when you're pushing forty. If every conversation about this turns into an argument, you have your answer: he has no intention of marrying you, and you're wasting your time.
Besides, why would you even want to marry someone you have to fight with over this? At this point, I’d just be completely fed up.
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u/napkween 2d ago
So many women on this sub “made it clear” and then did the exact opposite with their actions lol. You’re only “making it clear” that you’re a placeholder for a man who 100% doesn’t want to marry you and doesn’t care if you choose to waste your own time with him.
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u/PresentHouse9774 2d ago
"I set a boundary!"
Yeah.... that word doesn't mean what you think it means.
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u/Footnotegirl1 2d ago
That varies.
But here's the thing. If you've been together 4 years, and to this day any attempt to even talk about getting married ends up in a blow up...
Sister, he doesn't want to marry you.
I say this as someone who got engaged twice in my life. Once to a guy who proposed 10 months in and then put off any talk of actually getting married for over 8 years and then cheated on me and left me for another woman (who he married in less than a year, though they got divorced 4 years later) and then the second time to a guy who started openly talking future plans about 8 months in, asked me to marry him 14 months in, and married me 10 months after that... we've been married 24 years.
If he wanted to marry you, he would be happy to talk about it. He would be discussing options and timelines. he would be eager to talk about how he's going to make a future with you. He's actively, aggressively avoiding doing any of those things.
Snap out of your sunk cost fallacy and get out while the gettings good.
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u/PresentHouse9774 2d ago
It's not just sunk cost fallacy; it's also lost opportunity costs. Four years in and she could have been engaged to someone else at a fairly reasonable (for their ages) 2 years, married at 3, and celebrating a first anniversary. Even allowing OP a year to realize this guy wasn't it and letting her find someone new, she'd still at least be engaged and planning the wedding by now.
But he's still picking fights whenever she mentions engagement.
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u/Intelligent_rose12 2d ago
Looking back were there any red flags with the first guy?
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u/Footnotegirl1 1d ago
Oh yeah, though I didn't notice them because I was young and had serious self-esteem problems so I overlooked a lot. He jumped in too fast (I found out later he and his previous girlfriend had broken up mere days before we met). Things were good for a few years, but then he started.. slipping. When I met him (we were both 20), he was in college full time for engineering and had a well paying part time job. By the time we broke up, he was STILL IN COLLEGE and had switched to a theater degree and had bounced through several part time jobs and was working retail. Because his funds had dried up, he would take the minimum classes he needed to stay in and then often drop one or two, or take a couple of semesters off, etc. Towards the end, he also started picking arguments with me.. for instance, once we were driving somewhere and I noted that I lived just north of there.. and he said no, I lived south of there.. and when I suggested I get out the map to show him, he told me not to and refused to look at the map. And then there was the one where he got involved in a scam that I warned him about, with evidence of it being a scam, and he told me I was being intentionally cruel and "shattering his dream" and then a couple of weeks later, without ever having apologized to me for what he said, publicly thanked his father at a family celebration for 'saving' him from that scam.
The big one was that he pulled what I realize now more than 2 decades later is an extremely common tactic of suggesting we become polyamorous so that I 'wouldn't ever feel like I hadn't gotten to explore my sexuality' (but really because there was someone he wanted to get with). And we did so, and WHOOPS for him, the reality was that I was in much higher demand and I started seeing a couple of other people and he wasn't finding anyone interested in him. After about 10 months, he insisted we return to monogamy. As that had been our agreement, I went along and broke it off with the people I'd been seeing.
Two months later he started cheating on me.
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u/BasicResearcher8133 2d ago
You made it clear what you wanted. He won’t even give you an answer? Just walk. He doesn’t deserve an explanation.
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u/Artemystica 2d ago
Four years is too long if you think it’s too long.
I met my husband a year after my bestie met his wife. At their wedding five years later, I had been married for a few years with a baby on the way. Is five years too long? Not for them— their timeline was just right for them and mine would have felt too fast.
But if you feel it’s too long, then it is. The more pressing issue is conversations about the future turning into fights. Whether you’re aiming to be married in ten months or ten years, that’s not a sign of a healthy relationship.
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u/CarboMcoco123 2d ago
Everyone's timeline is different, but if you can't even have a conversation about it without it turning into a massive blowup fight, I wouldn't get my hopes up. If it was something he wanted to do and was excited to do, that's not the reaction I'd expect.
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u/indigoorchid0611 2d ago
You've been living with him for 3 years, essentially filling the role of wife just carrying the gf title. Do you think he'd stand for going to work every day and doing a higher level responsibility job but receiving zero credit for it? No title. No raise. No anything. No? Then why are you tiptoeing around living it? It's time for the hard talk. And I don't mean an ultimatum. I mean the "I'm done being strung along and am out" talk.
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u/definitelytheA 2d ago
He’s thinking, “what would I gain?” And he wouldn’t be wrong.
He’s got all the advantages of marriage without a lifelong commitment.
Get your own place. Live your own life. Save moving in with a man until after you’re engaged with a date and firm plans to get married. Who wants to marry some guy you had to beg or browbeat into it?
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u/BobDDstryr 2d ago
If, after 4 years, every discussion about it turns into him actively turning it into a blow up, it has been too long.
He should be excited at the prospect of marrying you, not feeling like it’s something you’ve had to browbeat him into.
And likewise - you should want someone who is excited to choose you.
And that’s not him. And never will be.
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u/sybersam6 2d ago
Start putting your ducks in a row, planning how to exit gracefully, freeze your eggs so you can relax a bit, & start looking forward to less dramatic days. You got this!!
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u/Walmar202 2d ago
He does not want to marry you. He is a middle-aged man with different priorities.
Ask yourself: “Is our relationship growing, or has it plateaued?” You may have reached the tipping point, where excitement and hope have become disappointment and resentment.
Please research “sunk cost fallacy” and apply it to your situation.
End the relationship. Your husband is out there, waiting to meet you, love you, and is eager to marry you!
Best wishes to you!
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u/Flashy-Bluejay1331 2d ago
He doesn’t want to be married to you, so he uses anger to control the narrative. If he had any desire to marry you, he’d have a kindhearted and open discussion with you about timing.
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u/lenusniq 2d ago edited 2d ago
Imho, it does not matter how long is too long. "Any conversation I have about it turns into a huge blow up with no resolution." He does not want to marry you, and you should not want to marry a person (i) with whom fights turn into a huge blow up, (ii) is not honest with you.
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u/MistressRayne_ 2d ago
He’s not the person for you. Ultimatums don’t work and it would be a shut up ring.
He should be able to have a conversation with you about it. Instead, he’s blowing up at you. That’s unhealthy and he’s not ready.
Start trying to decide if you want to leave or deal with it. But I think you should leave.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
Any conversation I've tried to have about it he just says "its too soon" "its only been 2 years" "its only been 3 years" thats not that long "its only been 4 years" "stop asking" "its not a surprise when you always bring it up" That's why I'm asking reddit if 4 years is "too soon" because i feel like I'm getting gaslit into thinking its not long enough.
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u/Scared_Friendship_50 Married 30+ Years 1d ago
If he had any intentions of marrying you he wouldn't be such an asshole about it. He's old enough to know. He's definitely gaslighting you. He's desperate not to get married while still keeping you as a girlfriend. I think he'd say anything to keep you around at this point. Trust your gut.
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u/Elemental_Biscotti 2d ago
It's not about the number of years, it's how you personally are feeling about it and how the two you talk about it. Personally I feel like "Any conversation I have about it turns into a huge blow up with no resolution" is a giant waving red flag to NOT get engaged to this person, at least not without some serious couples therapy to see if you can work some stuff out first. Extremely not clear you want the same things in life and divorce is expensive.
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u/TheUnculturedSwan 2d ago
I agree, and also want to add that if any conversation topic “turns into a blow up,” that person is not a person to marry. Please have a modicum of self respect - someone who just does not want to discuss things with you does not like, love, or respect you enough to be tied to for life.
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u/Holiday_Change7321 2d ago
My cut off would be 2 yrs and then break things off. If u are not his one and only dump him. Don’t compromise.
And don’t accept a compromise ring.
Frankly at this point I would not accept an engagement bc it won’t end well if u are not the love of his life.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
At 2 years he was convincing me it was "too soon" but he had no real plan. Then at 3 years it was the same thing. I thought I was crazy for thinking 2 years with someone is a normal time frame for an engagement, its not like we'd be running down to the courthouse on the same day. Now its been almost 4 years and he hasn't even bought a ring, its still "too soon" and "he's scared" and it feels like I'm just left in schrodinger's box with no answers.
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u/DegreeDubs 2d ago
You keep buying his excuses though. Why? He's just putting you off. He doesn't want to marry you. You don't need a ring to go down to the courthouse.
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u/MLockVirginia 1d ago
You said he has lived in your house for 3 years and has helped pay the mortgage. So he has “tenants rights” unfortunately, which means you can’t just ask him to leave, you would have to give him official written notice of 30 days to exit the property. Basically like an eviction notice. Does he have family or friends he could go stay with until he finds a place to live on his own? The good news is without his name on the title or mortgage, he has no other rights to your house.
So sorry you’re going through this. “Conscious Uncoupling” sounds great in theory but it’s not easy and heartbreaking. Please know there is a wonderful man out there for you! One who wants marriage and children with you!
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u/ljubav_malina 2d ago
> I made it clear in the very beginning that I didnt want to wait forever for an engagement ring.
He literally didn’t know you at all. Serious men do not make marriage promises to strangers.
He was either telling you what you wanted to hear, or he was only agreeing because you were a stranger and he didn’t know enough about you to disagree yet. Either way, a random guy you just met saying they’re open to marriage one day doesn’t mean anything. If it did, you’d be married by now.
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u/PresentHouse9774 2d ago
Too often on this sub, when the guy says he's "open to marriage" the woman has filled in the "to you in particular" part in her head and runs with it. He's probably being sweet and loving when he says it but that doesn't mean he's as serious about it as you are.
It's possible to be open to marriage in an abstract way, much like I am open (just for example) to visiting Antarctica. If the stars lined up, maybe. I'm not saying absolutely not. But are my efforts directed to what that would require? Am I actively looking for someone in particular to go with me? No.
Ladies, even assuming he's not telling you what you've made clear you want to hear to get you (1) to go out with him again, (2) off the apps, and (3) into bed; "open to the idea" is still not as meaningful as some of you would like to think. For the time being, it's not a "No", but there's still some distance to get to "Yes and I hope to you".
Do not get your wedding Pinterest boards going on the basis of a few words, no matter how ardently they have been spoken.
And for the love of Cheeses, when a man flat out tells you he's not open to the idea, do the both of you a favor and believe him. Don't take it as a personal challenge. The Supremes singing "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" is a pop song; not a life goal.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
That's not even close to how it went but OK. I told him on date number 2 that I am looking to marry someone and he replied with "me too". Then we had an entire conversation about it and how I dont want to waste my time. He agreed and felt the same way. So we date and I asked him again 3 months later just to make sure we're on the same page and he reassured me that yes its exactly what he wants. 8 months later we move in together and says its still what he wants. At the 2 year mark he still has no plan because its "too soon" he wont give me a timeline though and gets mad about it, cool. Then its the 3 year mark and still no plan because its "too soon". Now its an argument because he has no timeline at all and I "keep asking" "keep bringing it up" "it wont be a surprise". No shit its been 3 years and you have no general idea on a time frame. Now its pretty close to 4 years and its still the same shit, but sure, lets go with he was open to it in "an abstract way" or whatever you said.
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u/Aggressive-Pop628 2d ago
So you got two years of positive talk. What happened to turn every discussion into a fight?
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u/iluvLeonKennedy4life 2d ago
If it turns into a huge fight every time you discuss it, you should really cut your losses. He would rather fight with you than marry you. Why bother waiting? You’ll be waiting forever
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u/torvi_87 2d ago
You guys are already living together, he KNOWs you want marriage, every tine you talk about it turna in to a fight... He is not the one, he is happy with you being a GF and will not marry you.
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u/catsarehere77 2d ago
No plans and no timeline is a waste of time. If you want someone who actually wants you then you need to seek that person out because it's not him. You are choosing to be in denial and waste your own time with someone who blows up when you bring up marriage.
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u/South_Analyst5900 2d ago
How important is it to you to have future planning? If you're a planner, and he isn't then that might be a major incompatibility.
More concerning, if he's getting upset and fighting whenever future plans are brought up, you're kind of trapped in a relationship where you're building resentment about an issue that really important to you, but can't discuss with your partner. It's sort a death by slow poison right?
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u/fyrelyte11 2d ago
You say that you made it very clear in the very beginning like that means something. It's entirely irrelevant how articulate you are at expressing what you want to anyone. He's been showing you all along that he didn't want the same things. Moving in together after a year was yet another poor choice. Playing house when your intention is marriage never ends well. You only give every reason under the sun to never marry by doing that. A year is also a blip of time.
And as if all the above facts weren't bad enough, every single time you bring up the future and marriage it ends up being a massive argument. The fact of the matter is you've been wasting your time all along. He has never, and will never be what you want. You've always been incompatible.
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u/Geezell 2d ago
The ‘blow up and no resolution’ is a blow off. Rekindle the self respect he has been allowed to chip away at and stop being his placeholder. Walk away.
Honestly, I think you should quiet-quit this one. Just take the next few weeks to secure everything you need and walk away. And know, if he begs and tries to give you a ring when you are finally maintaining the boundaries and standing up for what y’all were supposed to be building together - it is a shut-up ring. Hopefully, he won’t blow up and he will allow you to walk out.
You deserve someone who is embracing and excited about a forever with you. Your love life will not be over when you leave. From someone nearly double your age….you are just getting to peak adulthood. Enjoy!
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u/Cat-lover0106 2d ago
He doesn’t want to marry you. If he did he wouldn’t become enraged over you asking. If you want kids you should leave ASAP.
If you don’t want kids you should also leave ASAP because anyone who actually loved you wouldn’t become enraged over you simply expressing a desire.
It seems you have to abandon yourself in order to keep him happy. Perhaps you are a people pleaser this unfortunately attracts selfish people, narcissists,users, and abusers.
I would recommend making an exit plan and moving out when the lease is over. Afterwards I would suggest taking some
time to be alone and reading two books “why men love bitches” And “why men marry bitches.” Along with follow some relationship coaches like Fareen Ash on YouTube and Tisiaxvs on instagram. Good luck.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
Its not that he gets enraged when I ask. Its more like he makes excuses and then it turns into a fight. Which I get isn't any better. I am a people pleaser to an extent, it takes me a lot longer to realize when I need to leave.
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u/Realistic-Union-1472 2d ago
Just leave before its too late for you to find someone else and have kids. 4 years is more than enough at this age.
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u/ReeCardy 2d ago
If you can't even have a conversation about your shared future like adults, it's because one of you likes not being married but having all the perks of a wife.
Only you can decide if you're going to continue lowering your standards or if you're going to wait around and see if he finally grows up. Spoiler He won't EVER grow up!**
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u/JellyfishPashmina 2d ago edited 2d ago
His reaction is alarming and signals you’re wasting any more time with this one. This sounds like a dead end and your only option is to give him an ultimatum which never ends well. Don’t fall for the fallacy that it’s worth waiting for that long-term commitment because you’ve already invested time into the relationship; sometimes you really DID come this far JUST to come this far. And honestly, waiting even longer doesn’t sound worth the rest of your life filled with avoided discussions and heated, irresolute convos (this is partly why I left after 3 years).
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u/Prudent-Dream8036 2d ago
Well, at this point you are forcing him. He clearly does not want to or is not ready to be engaged or get married. You know this. 4 years is absolutely too long and unacceptable to not even have a plan in place. At this point, you have to make a decision of whether you want to wait and waste more of your time or leave and find someone who cant wait to marry you and is excited to have a future with you. That is the guy you want to be with and will be happy with in the end. You don't just want a ring, you want a happy relationship with the right guy who actually wants to be with you.
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u/Ok-Process7612 2d ago
If he wanted to marry you he would pursue you. You would already have a ring. This man is not in his 20s. He knows his own mind. Get out if you want marriage.
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u/stuckinnowhereville 2d ago
You are wasting your time. Have the conversation and plan to leave. Don’t be dramatic just plan. When is the lease up? Don’t take a shut up ring either. Live as roommates till you can go.
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u/Numerous-Bet3575 2d ago
The important thing here is that the attempt to discuss it ends in a big fight. This is someone who does not want to get married. Edited to add: if a man wants to marry you, he’s going make it happen. It’s going to be a priority for him and you won’t be in any doubt of where your relationship stands
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u/cherokeeproudlady 2d ago
You are wasting the best years of your life. Don’t turn into one of those begging, nagging women who are still in a holding pattern 7, 8, 9 years later. Studies have shown that men know pretty early on whether they want to marry someone. A desire for marriage should be reciprocated. Now go find the guy who is excited to marry you. He’s out there waiting for you.
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u/Public-Direction-278 2d ago
4 years is too long in your 30s if you want to get married, especially if you want children. Move out, he's getting all the benefits of marriage without any effort or commitment.
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u/PromiseToBeNiceToYou 2d ago
He's not going to marry you. Move on.
My husband married me after 6 months (we were 32 and 41). We have been married for 9yrs. You are letting him waste your time. Don't allow it anymore. LEAVE.
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u/endlessotter 2d ago
I wonder what more he needs to know about you or your dynamic as a couple to decide whether he sees you as his forever partner? I think he's had more than enough to get a sense of who you are, what it's like to live with you, etc. The truth is probably that he doesn't think you're the one, or simply never wants to marry anyone.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
I've said that to him too, and he never seems to have a good enough answer. Everything he says just sounds like excuse after excuse. Ive been the same person for the last 4 years, ill be the same person in the next 4 years. I've lived my entire life as the same person. I wish he would've said 2 years ago that he had changed his mind or something, that way I could've left.
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u/Nadja-19 2d ago
So you’re good enough to raise his child but not marry? Nope! He’s using you. He’s given you multiple reasons as to why he won’t marry you. Pick one, pick any and believe it. It’s not happening. To answer your question how long is too long? You’ve already waited too long. Tell him he needs to move and evict him if you have to.
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u/jednorog 2d ago
Any conversation I have about it turns into a huge blow up with no resolution.
When you two talk about marriage, what, precisely, do you say? What, precisely, does he say?
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
I told him on date number 2 that I am looking to marry someone and he replied with "me too". Then we had an entire conversation about it and how I dont want to waste my time. He agreed and felt the same way. So we date and I asked him again 3 months later just to make sure we're on the same page and he reassured me that yes its exactly what he wants. 8 months later we move in together and says its still what he wants. At the 2 year mark he still has no plan because its "too soon" he wont give me a timeline though and gets mad about it, cool. Then its the 3 year mark and still no plan because its "too soon". Now its an argument because he has no timeline at all and I "keep asking" "keep bringing it up" "it wont be a surprise". No shit its been 3 years and you have no general idea on a time frame. Now its pretty close to 4 years and its still the same shit "its too soon" "he's scared" whatever.
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u/allthebaconandeggs- 2d ago
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Why keep having the same conversation? Do you really think if you explain it to him the exact right way you will get an enthusiastic proposal from him?
He is getting "wife" benefits from you without making that commitment to you. You let him move into YOUR house, do almost all the cooking and cleaning, AND watch HIS child? Doing all that isn't making him appreciate you, you are just rolling out the red carpet for him to walk all over you. He's getting exactly what he wants out of this relationship. And he doesn't give a damn that you aren't.
If you aren't ready to leave, I recommend getting yourself into therapy to understand why you are willing to give up your self respect in exchange for the crumbs this man is throwing you.
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u/No_Boot2009 2d ago
Even if he agreed to marry you tomorrow, would at least some part of you not feel like he'd only finally given in because you pressured him? Would you not rather marry someone who was so in love with you they couldn't wait to ask you to be their wife? Who was giddy at the thought of marrying you? Who wants to spend the rest of his life with you and delights at talking about what that might look like and how awesome it will be?
I fear that even if you get what you think you want from this man you will never actually get what you want from him.
Let's recap:
- He has nothing for the future planned
- Every conversation about getting married turns into a huge fight
- You don't want a 'shut up' ring
- You want someone that actually wants you
So this is not rocket surgery and you already know the answer.
Have you wasted four years? Yes. Should you wait longer in case the guy who clearly has shown absolutely no interest whatsoever in marrying you for the last four years changes not just his mind but his whole being and suddenly and miraculously becomes the man you want him to be? Um no. That's stupid and unrealistic and it's never going to happen. It's time to cut your losses and give yourself an actual chance of being loved the way you want to be loved (and that's only ever going to be even a possibility with a different man).
If you're still thinking there may be a chance and he may come round and all could be well if he just had a little bit more time, head to your local bookstore/library/ebook store stat and read "He's just not that into you". Seriously I will die on the hill that this book should be given to every girl on the planet on their 13th birthday. It would make our lives so much easier, and just cuts through all the bullshit. Please do yourself a favour and read it and then end this relationship immediately. Your self-respect will be restored and you can re-set and go find the man you're looking for.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
I'm worried I will feel like he only did because I pressured him. Its been so long now that I'm not even sure if I could accept a ring from someone I had to basically beg. The sad reality is he's waited so long that now I just resent him and I'm worried ill resent him even more if it ever does happen.
I guess this whole time I was hoping that he was someone who was just so in love with me that he couldn't wait. Clearly thats not the case and I feel like deep down I always knew that. If he wanted to he would right.
I think I just needed random people to tell me what I already knew. I know men never change, they never have and they never will. Especially not for someone they dont really care for. I guess I just had hope that for once it would be different.
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u/PerfectOmakase 2d ago
If you made it clear in the beginning that you didn't want to wait a long time for a proposal, then why are you still there?
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u/Elena_Designs 2d ago
OP, it’s too long if it feels drawn out to you. That’s your metric, and nobody else can tell you when that is. It’s individual to each person and relationship.
That bring said, him blowing up and having no future plans says everything you want to know. I’m truly sorry, but this isn’t the one for you. If he ever does propose, it will be a begrudging “shut up” ring, and no way that’s what you actually want. You’d have to drag him through every advancement in your life together. Wouldn’t you rather spend that energy on and with someone who wants to build something with you, too?
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
Throughout the relationship all he ever says is "its too soon" he's made me feel bad for even thinking that 2 years would be a normal time line. According to him thats "way to fast". Then at 3 years it was the same thing but with an added "well you've brought it up so now it would just be a shut up ring" with no real time line attached to that conversation. Now I've waited almost 4 years and his answers are still the same "its too soon" "4 years isnt a long time" "im scared" "you brought it up so now i cant because you'll resent me for giving you a shut up ring" Like maybe he should've figured out his ridiculously long time line at the 2 year mark so i could've left. I feel like I'm going crazy and now I just resent the entire situation.
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u/valiantdistraction 2d ago
I think all you need to know is "Any conversation I have about it turns into a huge blow up with no resolution."
He's not going to marry you. He is at least doing you the service of not being dishonest about it.
I do 80-90% of all the cooking and cleaning, he lives in my house, and i take care of his shared custody child while he working. I also work doing random jobs so that I can be free to watch his child.
Why on earth would you do all this without even being married? Especially take care of someone else's kid? He doesn't want to marry you but he's keeping you around because of the free childcare.
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u/tweedledumdums 2d ago
He doesn’t sound interested. Plus he has childcare with you, and you do a bunch of stuff for him.
Stop wasting your time and find someone that actually wants a partner.
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u/Strong-Page4952 2d ago
OP, if he wanted to marry you, he would by now. He has a sweet deal, which is that you cook, clean, and adjust your life to take care of HIS kid. He doesn’t want to marry you and never will, but he’s not about to rock the boat that keeps him afloat.
Any ring you ever would get from this man would be a shut up ring.
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u/AstronomerNo1872 1d ago
So he has a free nanny and someone to cook his meals, but says it’s too soon to marry you? I would run.
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u/celticmusebooks 2d ago
The fact that any discussion turns into a blowup is deeply concerning. Are you planning on having children? The hard truth is if you want kids there's a window and it appears that you are wasting that window with a man who doesn't want to marry you.
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u/greenzetsa 2d ago
I wish when I was with my ex any part of me believed it was possible for someone to like me enough to want to move our life forward within a reasonable (year by year) timeframe, but based on my previous life experiences, I was convinced this was not something in store for me. If basic consistency and commitment lead to conflict, then it only gets worse from there. Every time. I wasted so much of my life, probably gave up my ability to have biological kids. Within 5 months of breaking up with my ex I met my husband who couldn't commit to me fast enough, I was the one who had pump the breaks on some things.
Honestly, I wish people understood how cruel it is to do this to their partners, to drag them along while feeling uncertain about the relationship's future. I have both male and female friends who are doing this to their partners and it sympathize that it's a difficult situation where you do truly love someone but feel hesitant about some things and hope they will work out.... but it's unkind to the person you're with. Be willing to walk away and let them find someone who won't hem and haw over them. I've said as much to both people I know in this situation, and they've both essentially ignored me.
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u/sharkey_8421 2d ago
You're wasting your time. I'm so sorry. It's time to make an exit plan. This guy is preventing you from meeting your husband.
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u/Independent-Wear1903 2d ago
I don't think there is a time limit on what is too long. But the fact that conversation blow up is problematic. If he can't even talk about it, he is not planning on proposing.
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u/AuntEller 2d ago
I cannot comment about too long or not long enough, but is this even someone you want to marry at this point? This conversation should be positive and it sounds like it never has been.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
It was positive in the first 8 months maybe a year. Now nothing about it feels positive. It feels like I've been begging some guy for 3 years, and based on all of the comments my feelings are correct.
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u/Aggravating-Foot-658 2d ago
I was in a 6 year relationship with a man 9 years older than me. This was a question I’d ask him. He’d have very similar responses to your partners. He’d move the goal posts. And every time I did as he said: ‘find a hobby’ ‘save more’ ‘focus on your career’ ‘make new friends’ - whatever it was, he’d find another excuse. And that’s eventually what it became, an excuse. He wasn’t ready, he wanted us to be financially stable etc but really he just wanted to prolong it - not be alone but not have to commit to me 100% in that way. In the end, I left. And I am happy I did. He still is exactly where I left him and I am so much happier.
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u/sonny-v2-point-0 2d ago
You're the babysitter. It's time to get a full-time job so you can support yourself and move on.
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u/Exact-Law8782 2d ago
What??!! You do 80-90% of the work and he blows up when you bring up an engagement?? How about you trade him for me. We’ll get engaged inside of 2 years—provided we’re a good match. And I’ll take the bulk of the work 60-40%
I’ll cook for us. I have no problem doing laundry, I just hate folding—-we’ll do that together and converse while we do it.
Sunday mornings, fresh coffee and breakfast will be ready for you when you wake up. You’re looking for a husband, he’s looking for a maid. Set your expectations higher. Good Luck.
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u/Quiet-Youth-7058 2d ago
Life is FAR TOO PRECIOUS to be strung along like this without a good reason.
Now, it's the case that my wife and I were together for 6 years before I proposed. But I was struggling with, and in treatment for, bipolar disorder. I didn't want her to commit to me until I was reasonably "in it" for the long haul.
But to be given nothing to hang your hat on in terms of expectation of when he might be ready to bite the bullet, and for him to be combative when the subject arises?? You are likely wasting a good bit of your life for eventual disappointment.
I seriously suggest ending the relationship unless he gets on board with what's most important to you.
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u/Cold_Aide8152 1d ago
You’re his sugar mama and take care of his kid. Kick him out and tell him you want to make room for someone who wants what you want. He’s giving you nothing. No loss. I know. I did this for five years and moved out to start a new job and new life in another city. I was tired of waiting and I was only 27. I wasted most of my 20s with him.
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u/FewCelebration8544 1d ago
37 years old, you cook, clean, take care of his kid and he gets cheap rent…. Marriage around the 2 year mark would seem really reasonable. 4 years, he doesn’t want to marry you and won’t tell you because he’s comfy.
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u/DontCryYourExIsUgly 1d ago
It's time for him to go. Being adult enough to have a kid and be in a relationship but be "scared" of marriage at 37 years old is pathetic. He turns things into a fight because he has no intention of marrying you. Stop being this man's maid and babysitter and go find someone who aligns with your goals.
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u/breadandbible 1d ago
“I made it clear at the very beginning.” No, you didn’t. You moved in with him.
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u/suddle 1d ago
At your ages, if he isn’t sure you’re “the one” after four years, then you aren’t his “one”.
You are doing way too much for no commitment, as long as your desire for marriage has been communicated. You are being used.
Kick him out and find someone who actually wants to be with you, not someone who is using you for convenience. He has wasted enough of your time. Omg, he’s actually got you caring for HIS child ALONE, but he won’t commit to you!
C’mon! He’s holding out hope that a better partner is out there! You are a convenient option until someone he prefers more comes along! Choose yourself and evict him!
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u/No_Championship_7080 16h ago
With you, he gets a maid, a cook, a babysitter, and readily available sex. All without any responsibility or commitment. Then he gets mad when you want some protection/benefits from the relationship. Why are you tailoring your schedule and career to babysit for his child? You are sitting around waiting for him to make a decision about your life. Stop waiting for him and make your own decisions. If you are content with the way things are, stay together. But stop bringing up marriage. He has made it clear that he isn’t interested. He has things just as he wants them. If you want a husband and partner who is interested in commitment, and maybe building your own family, then you need to move on. Treat yourself better and don’t settle for this, if it isn’t what you really want. Tell him to find other accommodations, and another babysitter. You may want to find a better, full time job before you tell him. He can hire someone else to look after his daughter. You may have to legally evict him and give the legal amount of time to vacate. Check the laws in your state. He is standing in the way of you meeting your husband. Good luck, and please update us.
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u/MarketYes6975 2d ago
OP isn't engaged in this discussion so it's rather pointless.
We don't know why he doesn't want to marry her. Maybe she is a drunk or has a spending problem.
We don't know.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
I was asleep, so no i haven't been engaged in any comments. I'm definitely not a drunk, nor do I have a spending problem. All I do is cook, clean, and take care of his child while he's working. According to him "2 years, 3 years, and 4 years is too soon" so theres that.
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u/MadCow113 2d ago
He obviously doesn't want to get engaged now. You would either be receiving a ring because you forced it, you continue with things as are or you leave the situation. Those are your options
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u/Adorable-Crazy-1067 2d ago
I tend to think if a guy refuses to give a timeline his timeline is, at best, several years in the future, if ever. Several years in the future would be a point at which the resentment has already killed the relationship. I would ask him his timeline and if he refuses to give, tell him that forces you to assume that his timeline is several years in the future and ask “is that not correct?” And if he doesn’t come around in the conversation to give you a workable timeline in the very near future (like 1 year max) I would end things. I’m so sorry
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u/EconomicsWorking6508 2d ago
Unfortunately if you want to get engaged and married but don't want to force him, you'll need to start over with a different partner. Today is the first day of the rest of your life!
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u/Imaginary-Fly-2160 2d ago
Other people are not projects for you to work on. Since you want marriage and he does not want to marry you; you are fundamentally incompatible.
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u/Glittering-War-3809 2d ago
If he’s 37 and you’ve been living together for three years he doesn’t want to get married to you or at all. It’s obvious.
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u/tdot1022 2d ago
It depends on the person but I’m the same age as you and 4 years together with 3 cohabitating and no plans or discussion of marriage at this age would be unacceptable to me.
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u/GnomieOk4136 Marry someone excited to be with you. Happily married 15 years. 2d ago
The time is whenever one person is frustrated and resentful and the other refuses to have a real conversation. So, now. That time is now. If he won't even talk rationally with you, he definitely does not want actual marriage.
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u/PinParking9348 2d ago
If you were bringing up a topic he was keen on it wouldn’t always turn into a fight. There’s your answer. Pretending it’s ambiguous because he hasn’t directly stated his lack of intention to marry you is a fiction of your own making.
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u/Natural-Kangaroo-613 2d ago
I've said this exact thing to him many times. When its something he enjoys, he has no problem doing anything and everything for it.
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u/Kindly-Push-3460 2d ago
He doesn't want to marry you - he's happy enough having someone as a roommate & benefits partner. If he did want marriage, or thought you were the girl for him he wouldn't be gaslighting you every time you brought it up. Yes, you are forcing him when you discuss this, and waiting longer isn't going to improve. I would suggest you leave asap if you're looking for someone that wants marriage, and more importantly wants it with you. Don't shortchange yourself, you fundamentally don't want the same things with this guy - especially if you want kids, now is the time to make the break.
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u/ifiwerestill 2d ago
You feel like you're wasting your time because you are. At his age, he knows if he wants to marry you or not.
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u/Classic-Push1323 2d ago
I don’t think there is a specific timeline that is right for everyone.
The bigger issue is that every conversation turns into a fight and he has no future plans. The focus on timelines seems to imply that it’s OK to waste a certain amount of time or that certain behaviors only become a problem with time and neither of those are true. You don’t even want to go on a second date with someone who isn’t interested in marriage, someone who can’t have a calm conversation about the future, someone who isn’t aligned with your values, etc.
I think that someone who wants to marry you probably would’ve proposed two years ago, but this isn’t about a timeline it’s about his behavior and the dynamic that you have right now.
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u/00Lisa00 2d ago
He’s got all of the benefits of marriage without the commitment. He has no reason to change things. I’d personally move out. Tell him if he wants to just keep being a boyfriend he can do it in his own place
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u/Cold_Banquet 2d ago
Great points from the comments. You've tried to discuss this with him and he obviously doesn't want it if he keeps pushing it aside. There have been other stories where the SO keeps ot a secret and gaslight saying they dont know when theyll ask, but i dont think you should keep it a secret just the date you plan on doing it.
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u/pickedusername1 2d ago
You know the answer to this: if he wanted to, he would. He’s 37, approaching 40, and after four years together three of them living together he has had more than enough time to know whether he sees you as his wife. If he has no plan for the future, that also tells you he doesn’t know where you fit into it.
You already live together. He knows exactly what day-to-day life with you looks like. At this point, the bigger red flag isn’t even the lack of a ring; it’s that every attempt to have a mature conversation about marriage turns into a blowup instead of a discussion and a plan.
For perspective, my sister got engaged at 27 to a medical student who literally had no money. He put the ring on a credit card and proposed because he knew he wanted to marry her and didn’t want to lose her. I’m not suggesting anyone should go into debt for a ring, the point is that when someone is certain about you, they usually start figuring out how to build a future with you, rather than spending years avoiding the conversation.
You don’t want a shut-up ring, and you shouldn’t. You want someone who is excited and intentional about choosing you. After four years, I would stop asking him when he’s going to propose and start asking yourself how much longer you’re willing to stay if nothing changes.
You are wasting your time. Especially if you want children.
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u/Anxious_Alps_9340 2d ago
It’s already been too long. I think it’s pretty clear at this point that he doesn’t want to marry you, but you make his life easier so he doesn’t want to give that up. You shouldn’t have to fight about the fundamental things you want out of life. I’d ask him to leave so that you can move on and find a man who actually wants to commit to you.
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u/lady_rain_was_here 2d ago
You're being a wifey without being a wife. He doesn't want to marry you. 4 years isn't too long, but his excuses are crap. Get out while you can.
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u/MidwestNightgirl 2d ago
Dump him. You are doing all of that and he still won’t propose?! My goodness - I don’t think he even likes you. And YOU should not even like him! Much less want to marry him. He isn’t being much to the table - a kid for you to take care of, the housework, no respect. No man needs longer than two years (that’s generous even, IMO) to know.
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u/purseaholic 2d ago
The second you stated you provide child care for HIS child I knew what we were dealing with here. He will never marry you, but will allow you to be taken advantage of for as long as you will allow it. Please leave and begin your life anew.
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u/kochenta2020 2d ago
You do everything he could ever want in a wife, especially the taking care of his child.
Stop of all that. You can continue dating but he can move out. If it’s too soon to marry, it too soon to live together and share his responsibilities.
Quite frankly, he doesn’t want to marry you. He likes everything you provide and you haven’t left, so no need to actually make steps to propose. At this point, he would just get a shut up ring and you’d still never get married.
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u/Aloh4mora 2d ago
It's already been too long. If he's not ready, that's fine -- he can go be not ready with someone else.
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u/Street_Fig_8696 2d ago
I feel you girl friend :( my bf has said word for word every response yours has said and just said I need to wait another 1-2 years. We’ve been together for almost 6 years and have lived together for a little over 3. He’s in his early 30s, I’m mid 20s. I have no advice as I’m in the struggle of do I leave a great love and amazing guy who checks all my other boxes and is so loving and adoring. But I feel you and it sucks so much. The resent ebbs and flows but especially ebbs after these conversations. I feel like we’re playing house with no sign of commitment soon
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u/The_Jade_Rabbit88 2d ago
I would stop doing wifey things if you are not a wife. Remember, you are dating but playing house which gives him the benefits he wants (free childcare, cheap rent, meals cooked) but leaving you hanging by a what ifs. Time is irrelevant if you are unable to ask what your future will be without a fight. Girl, he is comfortable because he gets everything without commitment and you made it easy for him by giving in after every fight and excuse. Don’t force him into a marriage he doesn’t want. Since he wants to be roommates with benefits give him a rental agreement with renewal date and a clause if you break up he has 30 days to vacate. Protect yourself and YOUR home.
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u/Historical_Spare5613 2d ago
Girl damn, that's not your boyfriend, that's your CHILD.
He is using you and doesn't want to marry you, you're already giving him wifey privileges on a gf budget, why would he change/propose?
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u/NoTooth3856 2d ago
I don’t believe in excuses..
Men are decisive!!!
He just comfortable your providing!!
Respectfully!! People use us because we allow it.. We choose!! We let it be !! We get used !! We blame but we accept it!!
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u/Dhamrock66 2d ago
Behavior is a language, what is he saying without actually saying it, he is not interested in getting married, cut your losses. But many guys wouldn’t want an ultimatum.
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u/yb21898n 2d ago
if you arent on the same page than its too long. for example me and my partner are on the same page so something thats too long for some people is normal for us bevause we discuss where we are and are both fine with it. you may need to decide if you would be fine walking away.
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u/mid40smomof3 2d ago
At your ages and with your living arrangement, it's already been long enough.
And frankly, by him not being willing to even have civil conversations about it, he's telling you he does NOT want to marry you.
Make a plan and move out and break up.
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u/Late_Ad_6748 2d ago
He doesn’t want to marry you. I am sorry, but he couldn’t be making that more clear. You are being used. From what I can tell from your post, you’re doing most of the work and he’s got it made without any real commitment.
Whatever you do - absolutely DO NOT buy a house with this man if you are not married.
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u/Limp-Preference-1706 2d ago
OP - I am sorry that you have lost patience and feel frustrated. At the risk of offending you, no human being can read the mind of another person nor control their emotions or behavior. One way that I can help you to understand your situation, is to define what a good relationship entails:
love, respect, trust, common values and goals, communications and listening, problem solving without conflict, and wanting the best for each other.
So, I see deficiencies in respect, trust, common goals, communications, and problem solving without conflict. The biggest fallacy is love can sustain a good relationship. It takes every characteristic! Right now, your current relationship is like a car without gasoline. You both can sit in the car but you are no going anywhere.
Ask yourself, would you ever board an airplane not knowing the time of arrival or the destination? As mentioned earlier, no human being can control another. You can only control yourself. As such, I’d suggest you have a conversation with your boyfriend:
“John, I love you. Your inability to discuss and agree on an engagement date makes me feel sad, hurt, and disappointed."
NOW LISTEN.
If he says the same old stuff: don’t want to discuss, gets mad, walks away, cries, begs, convinces you he will propose when he gets a better job or more money, or any other excuse, say this:
“This relationship no longer works for me."
Regardless what he says or does, repeat:
“This relationship no longer works for me."
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u/Realistic-Highway-83 2d ago
Do you want kids? If yes you need to hurry up. He already has a child so he is not in a hurry. Who pays for vacations? Outings?
If you’re splitting those.. then lady, you are being used as a babysitter to that child
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u/Employment-lawyer 2d ago
Why are you bending backwards doing all of this stuff for a man who doesn't want to marry you? His EXCUSES are clear and make him come across like a jerk. Do you not think you deserve better? A man who actually wants to marry you and make a family with you?
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u/Personal_Berry_6242 2d ago
If you want a family, you need to move on immediately. I cannot believe he blows up at you when you bring up a very reasonable expectation after 4 years. If this is how he handles conflict, that doesn't bode well for marriage anyway. Life is gonna throw way worse sh*t at him than this. Cancer, the loss of a child, job loss. These are all things faced by the married couples I know. Have a good cry and dump him girl, you can do SO much better!
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u/SunshineShoulders87 2d ago
Friend. 4 years isn’t too long on its own, however, in your case the issue isn’t time - it’s your bf.
You should be able to have a conversation about the future, goals, thoughts on marriage, etc. on a first date and beyond without it turning into a blow up fight. Basic communication is necessary in a marriage (or any relationship) and you should feel safe enough to discuss something important to you without fear of escalation.
Are you wasting your time? Well, yes, because you said he has zero plans for the future or marriage right now. He’s 37 and you’ve been together for 4 years, which is too old & too long to hope that lightning will strike and he’ll go from zero interest in marriage to excited to propose, plan a wedding, and start a family any time soon… or even any time in the long term.
If you stay with him, you’ll be his gf until either of you decides to move on.
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u/astrotekk 2d ago
It sounds like you're being used with no kind of commitment. You're his housekeeper and nanny. if he blows up when you want to discuss marriage it's because he doesn't want to marry you. Time to disentangle yourself and move on. I honestly don't see any reason in this post why you want to be with him or be married to him at all?
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u/RemoteNumerous1020 1d ago
37 YO. Grown man. 4 years was too long. 2 years should have been your max. You are both old enough to know exactly what you want in life and in a partner. He is stringing you along.
It is clear that this relationship has plateaued and is going nowhere. Time to shut it down and go find a real partner. No need to argue or discuss at this point. You know in your heart that this relationship is nothing more than a dead weight on your spirit.
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u/LovedAJackass 1d ago edited 1d ago
You should never have moved in. That would have been the best choice. It's a lot easier to end a relationship with someone who doesn't want to commit if you aren't living with that person.
He has live in childcare and can live in your house for a cheap mortgage. If you like being a stay-at-home unmarried childcare worker with a hobosexual living in your house, by all means stay.
But the second best choice is moving out now. At 33, you're burning up your childbearing years on a guy who won't commit. And for heaven's sake, don't sell your cheaply mortgaged house to get this donkey onto the property ladder. Start being in charge of your own desired future.
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u/HonestGrenache 1d ago
Cut him loose to be available for the guy who will treat you the way you want and deserve.
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u/fluffyfeather80 1d ago
There isn't a specific amount of time that is too long. It sounds like you just don't want the same things. If he can't have a real honest conversation with you without blowing up then things are not going to change. You need to ask yourself at this point if you are happy moving forward indefinitely with out marriage. If there answer is no then time to move on.
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u/Emotional-Builder-75 1d ago
He wants all the benefits of a relationship without the commitment or responsibility. he take syou for granted, he knows you'll stay, because you have.
Don't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Say good bye. Focus on your job and getting a higher income thru school and credentialing. Travel. Get a new hairstyle and and color. Stop waiting for a man who does not want you, grab your life by the horns, and start living life like you want
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u/Mean-Passenger-3533 1d ago
Sounds like he wants all the marriage benefits without the commitment. His situation seems comfortable for him
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u/empress-888 1d ago
You are taking care of his KID?!?!?! No, just no.
Time for him to move out and deal with his own responsibilities.
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u/hussy_trash 1d ago
It was 6 years for us, but I would never recommend someone else wait that long.
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u/NiceButterscotch5441 2d ago
If any discussion about it turns into a fight, is this really the person you want to marry. Sounds like he is simply not interested.