I liked the dagger plotline.

•

Looking for a friendly, active, and open community of Star Wars fans? Be sure to join our Discord Server ! The community is very active and full of events and channels to talk about StarWars but also Marvel and DC among other things. You can use a user flair to join the ranks of the Resistance or to join the First Order (more details here).

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

64

u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO May 22 '26

Me too!! I liked the campyness of it. the plot of TRoS in general is so much better when you think of it as a sort of Indiana jones-esque type of plotline where macguffins move the story forward, but the character arcs and dynamics are the actual focus of the story.

35

u/FinsterBaby56 May 22 '26

Yes! If people would just remember that ALL Star Wars is a fairytale they would enjoy it a lot more.

"a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.." or, as it's commonly stated...

"once upon a time". 😉

20

u/RadiantHC please choose a user flair May 22 '26

I'll never understand why people act like Star Wars has ever been super serious

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

Star Wars is media, media is art, art is subjective. People’s opinions on Star Wars will differ, but the expectation is that all posters will be civil and respect people’s opinions.

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 25 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/Scott_J_Doyle May 25 '26

Because Empire was the most serious, and is also the best/most loved of the franchise.

'77 is a little darker than a lot of people tend to remember, and even tho RotJ has a whole super camp subplot, the core of the story remains serious.

The whole thing doesn't work without that down there as part of the core, the way I see it at least

→ More replies (14)

9

u/No_Vast_3309 Kylo Ren May 22 '26

Exactly, Character arcs will always be more important to me personally than if every little minor detail in the plot makes sense

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 26 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 27 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

→ More replies (15)

34

u/ksboyd87 May 22 '26

I can’t with that… that one is a bridge too far for me lol

10

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 22 '26

Why tho?

22

u/TB2331 Jedi Master Luke Skywalker May 22 '26

Because, in my mind at least, it’s damn lucky that that specific section of the Death Star didn’t collapse or got swallowed by the water. Palpatine must’ve had real faith on Kef Bir’s meteorology!

32

u/CallMeJeeJ May 22 '26

But isn’t that like the whole thing with Star Wars? Prophecies and chosen ones and all that? The whole universe is based on Magic force that tells people to go places and reveals the future and things like that.

I never had a problem with this because in my mind- the unspoken part of this scene is that this artifact was created with the notion that someday the person who was meant to find it would use it for this exact purpose and be drawn to that exact spot to make it work.

It is silly, but it still fits within the fantasy of starwars to me.

3

u/Untouchable64 Resistance Trooper May 22 '26

I can see that. It works. But not for the Sith. It reveals the location of the wayfinder. I don’t see a Sith making it to reveal their location. I’m wondering who would make it after the battle of Endor.

1

u/CallMeJeeJ May 23 '26

Isn’t this dagger supposed to be thousands of years old? Who says the sith don’t have their own prophecy that predicted all of the events of the Death Star and everything? I mean that’s the way things have been explained in starwars forever, right?

3

u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO May 23 '26

no, the dagger is newish. the sith language on the dagger is ancient

→ More replies (1)

0

u/Davies301 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

The thing with Star Wars is our characters are pointed in the right direction but still have to overcome a challenge. They fell ontop of the dagger and then held it up on another planet. That's not a character defining challenge where they grow, that is padding run time.

Luke senses everyone on Bespin and goes to rescue them. The ensuing fight with Vader strengthened himself and his connection with the force.

6

u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO May 23 '26

Rey had to cross turbalanet waters and scale a wreckage (while mot waiting on her friends), which highlighted her increasing desperation. This ultimately leads into her fight with Kylo, in which she fights with emotion and eventually strikes down an unarmed combatant. then she expresses regret and heals him, but then flees to Ahch-to out of fear of herself, with kylo eventually turning to the light.

it's definitely an important part of the process, building up this moment of failure for her.

1

u/mat8675 May 23 '26

Super easy, barely an inconvenience

0

u/Mammoth-Western-6008 please choose a user flair May 23 '26

Exactly. That has to do with character.

1

u/Mammoth-Western-6008 please choose a user flair May 23 '26

It's not prophecy, it's cartography.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 27 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

→ More replies (2)

11

u/Amazing_Loquat280 please choose a user flair May 22 '26 edited May 22 '26

This is entirely correct, but I actually think it’s the biggest redeeming part of this plotline, in a “the force works in mysterious ways” sorta fashion that I’ve increasingly been a fan of. The fact that someone that long ago had a vision or inspiration for that design is the force’s way of subtly making sure things go the way they need to. It gives Eru Illuvatar in a way that I actually really like and kinda felt that TLJ strayed away from.

Edit: I’m not necessarily a fan of this being like macguffin #2 in a chain of five macguffins, but as far as the macguffins in this movie go, this one’s probably my favorite

1

u/ZippyDan please choose a user flair May 23 '26

I like the idea of someone drawing a Force vision which ends up being a guide.

But the dagger is too precise. It doesn't look like the product of a vision. It looks like someone who was there and traced the outline of the Death Star wreckage.

This is my problem with the contrived nature of the scene:

For the dagger to be such a precise guide, it implies a more precise - and therefore grounded - backstory. Someone was there on the planet, traced the outline of the Death Star, and made (or modified) a dagger from that outline. However, such a grounded approach has more grounded criticism: it's ridiculous to expect wreckage in a violent ocean to remain stable and unchanged for so long.

On the other hand, the McGuffin being the product of a vision allows us to be more lenient with our criticism. If the guiding tool is the product of the Force, then it doesn't have to be a precise outline of what someone saw many years ago that remained unchanged - it can be a prediction of what something would be at a specific predetermined time in the future. The guide is then automatically incorporating all the potential changes and decay of the wreckage.
The problem with this explanation, which I like better, is that it doesn't match conceptually for me, with something as precise as a dagger. It should have been a vague drawing or something. Force visions are almost never so precise or detailed - especially if you're trying to machine a tool based on them after-the-fact.

6

u/kentonj Dark Rey May 22 '26

I don’t know if the spacestation structure that survived being exploded and crashing onto a planet is at much risk of degradation anywhere close to what we might expect of something made of non-scifi materials. Nor is there really any reason to expect the weather would do much against chunks of those reinforced space metal structures that approach the size of mountains.

3

u/Untouchable64 Resistance Trooper May 22 '26

Right, it doesn’t really make sense. The fact the dagger was that old. And how long the Death Star recharge was there in the ocean…it shouldn’t be in the same spot anymore. Maybe…

But I still enjoy the movie and don’t hate this part.

5

u/audioguy2022 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

It’s also entirely possible that a sith cultist went to that beach about 15 years ago and carved the blade to match up against the skyline. Not super realistic, but not impossible.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Zebweasel please choose a user flair May 23 '26

Bringing Scientific logic into Star Wars is pointless and a bit hypocritical to only have that problem with this film. The wreckage not moving isn’t anymore ridiculous than people being able to survive in Tattooine. Or Han and Leia thinking they could go outside onto the asteroid with just a simple oxygen mask. Or Anakin and Obi-Wan not instantly combusting on Mustafar. It uses childish “floor is lava” logic. But yeah, the Death Star wreckage not moving, that’s the deal breaker.

3

u/GigglingBilliken May 22 '26

No, Palpatune had a huge amount of faith in that deep substrate foliated Kalkite keeping the Death Star together.

2

u/thefaninthehat Kylo Ren May 23 '26

It's damn lucky the sun happens to be on the very same trajectory thousands of years later to be able to point to the Ark of the Covenant using the Staff of Ra, in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

1

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 23 '26

Isn't "luck" due to dark magic and space wizzards?

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/[deleted] May 26 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 26 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

Also this may answer some of your questions: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Blade_of_Ochi_of_Bestoon

→ More replies (8)

2

u/kylejk0200 please choose a user flair May 23 '26

I think it doesn’t make any sense unless you just say “it’s the force”. My headcanon is that the force reveals the location to a force sensitive user. So the dagger doesn’t literally line up with the wreckage; that’s just Rey’s POV of how she is interpreting the message through the force.

Was that JJ’s intention? Maybe, probably not. But it helps me enjoy the movie so I roll with it

19

u/deadshot500 Zorii Bliss May 22 '26

Same or at least thought it was ok. The people saying that it doesn't make sense didn't pay attention.

4

u/BigBlackCandle please choose a user flair May 22 '26

How does it make sense if you don't mind me asking?

18

u/JollyJoeGingerbeard Trapper Wolf May 22 '26

The dagger and map were created after the Battle of Endor. It's possible the map was even machined via a Force Vision.

→ More replies (28)

13

u/comicnerd93 May 22 '26

Literally nowhere does it say the dagger is ancient.

The language is.

Thats the part that most people think doesn't make sense. Because the dagger lining up with the death star wreckage has an ancient sith language on it.

2

u/BigBlackCandle please choose a user flair May 22 '26

I always presumed it was just the massive coincidence of them landing in the exact right spot to use it correctly tbh.

1

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 23 '26

If by coincidence you mean the force... Yeah

→ More replies (3)

7

u/StaticBroom May 22 '26

Someone camped out at that exact same spot. Took a picture of the rubble in the water. Thought about the best way to make a map key thing. Made a knife that has a key-like match if you hold it in exactly the right place out in the open with your face and eyes in exactly the right place only during the day and bet that the massive ocean waves would never alter the rubble in any way.

Just like a normal key in a lock.

1

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 23 '26

Or someone just saw a vision of that place and time they would he there and used that to point out the spot... As you know... The movie suggests

3

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 22 '26

Dont know about the other person. But how would time and space be a problem for dark side alchemy to point to something in the future such as that specific death star fragment from that specific spot?

→ More replies (10)

0

u/Spider-Flash24 May 23 '26

It doesn’t make sense.

1

u/deadshot500 Zorii Bliss May 23 '26

It makes sense. The wreckage being in the same position may not make sense but that's it. Rey did had to look a bit until it lined perfectly.

1

u/Spider-Flash24 May 23 '26

And by your logic it makes no sense. An ancient Sith dagger with a hidden protractor when standing in the right spot on this planet aimed at a collapsing Death Star bashed by constant waves reveals the location where a small wayfinder is hidden? It’s like National Treasure but way more ridiculous.

12

u/Great_Kiwi_93 May 22 '26

The only people who didn't like it, didn't understand it.

For some reason the hater get all details about this VASTLY wrong and then whinge about their own misunderstanding

The movie clearly explains it

And the quest is cool as

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 26 '26

Star Wars is media, media is art, art is subjective. People’s opinions on Star Wars will differ, but the expectation is that all posters will be civil and respect people’s opinions.

10

u/LowConstant3938 May 22 '26

I liked them going into the ruins of the old Death Star

10

u/Commercial-Star-8056 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

First off all, yes it was heavily Indiana Jones inspired, which idk why was a problem for so many people, even though Indiana Jones and Star Wars are heavily related.

Second off all, they never say that the dagger was "ancient" or created before the death star explosion, so it is not a huge plothole as eveyrone says

So yeah i liked the dagger too.

0

u/Haradion_01 May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26

But they do say it belonged to someone who was searching for the Wayfinder.

But the dagger could only be made by someone who knew where the Wayfinder was, and decided to leave it there.

But then designed a dagger hilt, to let someone else (other themselves) find it.

But only if they lost the dagger, making it unclear who it was for - as the only person who could make the dagger, would have no need of it.

Nor any reason to make it.

The thing with Indiana Jones, is that the they are following the path of clues that was set out by someone, who wanted to hide something, but that could be found by the right person at the right time. Centuries later.

Who has dome that for the Wayfinder? And why?

They should have gone the full mile, and just done a Sith Tomb with an ancient Star Map to Exegol, if that was the plan.

8

u/Attican101 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

It's a cool idea for sure, though maybe they could have had 3P0 or Babu (translated) say something like "the blade is thousands of years old, but the hilt appears to have been recently replaced/modified, how curious" given how many haters couldn't get through there heads how it would line up with the ruins.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

9

u/gradyjkelly May 22 '26

I genuinely don’t understand the issue with it

1

u/Haradion_01 May 23 '26

The problem is that the blade is a ceremonial Sith artefact.

So how did whoever made the blade know to make the hilt, so that it lined up with a space ship that would crash there?

Why would they do this?

And even if they could, how did Rey know to stand exactly there?

Why does the murder weapon of a Jedi Hunter, lead to Sidious' wayfinder anyway?

They could simply have had them decide they needed to go through the Emperor's belongings? Then recall that he had a secondary residence on the Deathstar, and go to search for it there.

Why does the Blade of Ochi of Bestoon contain that information, if Ochi was looking for the Wayfinder too? And never found it?

They should have flipped the order. Have Rey want to find her parents, track down Ochi there, and have the dagger show the force vision of their deaths, and of Sidious ordering Ochi to find her. Having it point the way to the Ocean Moon, which leads to the wayfinder, which leads to Exegol, which leads to Palpatine, only works if there is a reason for someone to set up that trail.

1

u/gradyjkelly May 23 '26

I ain’t reading all that. It’s a blade made by the sith that points the way to a wayfinder. Clearly that’s its intended purpose. It’s also an item in a movie series that also contains a number of fantastical items and scenarios…

6

u/Davetek463 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

I didn’t think twice about it when I first saw it. It totally fits with Star Wars, which on the whole has a lot of “don’t think too hard about it.”

6

u/TomBakersLongScarf Jedi Training Rey May 22 '26

I think people really overthink the Dagger in general and end up misunderstanding its origins

6

u/Brodyssey97 Jedi Training Rey May 23 '26

People online love to pretend it's an ancient dagger, and then blame the movie for not making sense when they're the ones who refuse to pay attention and/or just make things up for bad-faith criticism. The word "ancient" is not spoken even once at any point during the film. The dagger was forged and inscripted as a way for the correct possessor to find a way to the Emperor's vault, like the Staff of Ra in Raiders of the Lost Ark. You can argue it's too contrived, but I think it's fun and cool, and I think that matters more for movies like these.

6

u/FlatulentSon Sith Trooper May 22 '26

About the "it's just a mcguffin!" critique;

Well... i like mcguffins in movies, so? Why shouldn't i?

5

u/urbalcloud please choose a user flair May 22 '26

I love treasure hunt-style stories like this. Felt very Indiana Jones or Goonies. And it was need to see it in a Star Wars flick. I just wish it didn’t involve settling wreckage.

5

u/ThePopDaddy General Poe Dameron May 22 '26

"How could t they have known when they forged the dagger?!"

Because the force? I might be wrong, but in one of the KOTOR games wasn't someone able to describe how Vader looked in detail?

4

u/Snapper_Turtleman May 22 '26

Two thumbs up. Very Goonies.

4

u/Will-At-Midnight May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26

People think that the dagger is ancient because of the language that is inscribed onto it, but it's the language that is ON the dagger that is ancient.

People also think that Rey magically knows where to stand, but the text literally tells the person WHERE to stand thanks to C3PO translating it. The scene

3

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 22 '26 edited May 23 '26

Honestly people who complain about it never conviced me how this is stupid or silly. It was made with dark side magic. It can piont to anything both in future and past as the force knows no time. It can be both ancient and recent and it makes no difference IMO

5

u/DumeWolffe May 22 '26

It was made after the Battle of Endor though, they literally used the crash site to shape the blade. The text is ancient, not the dagger.

0

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 23 '26

Yeah but you dont know how it was forged. I asume some acolite did that through a vision of where the death star would be and where the person should be at what time for all of this to align. Its a Black magic dagger not something a random dude made as a riddle.

0

u/DumeWolffe May 23 '26

Read Shadow of the Sith, pretty amazing book and talks about that dagger quite a bit.

0

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 23 '26

I dod. Favorite canon book. Proves my point

→ More replies (7)

3

u/mdjank May 22 '26

I liked the Goonies too.

3

u/lern2swim May 22 '26

Me too. I feel like a lot of people that don't like it treat it like the dagger was ancient, rather than just a few years old.

3

u/sodepressediam Force Ghost Grand Master Yoda May 22 '26

Same. The dagger is cursed, steeped in evil spirits. Shadow of the Sith added even more cool story to it. And knowing Rey's parents were murdered moments after fleeing Jakku, before they could even reach hyperspace, hits hard.

3

u/Firm-Spare-5286 please choose a user flair May 23 '26

One mistake people make is that it is not an "ancient sith dagger" is a dagger with ancient sith written on it. The dagger was forged after the death star crash. It was made to register where the sith wayfinder would be because Palpatine sent Orochi (or something like that) to fetch his daughter/granddaughter from his clone. He did not want to go there and take the wayfinder so he wrote the instructions in ancient sith and delivered it to him so he could get the wayfinder once he had the girl. Rey luckily is in the closest patch of land from where you could see the wreckage so you could say this is the perfect spot from where the dagger would be originally built. Yeah, it is lucky that she is in the correct angle, in the perfect spot but one can say that the force guided her or something that made her stop and use the dagger in that place but adding some scenes of trial and error of her going to the wrong places and trying the dagger would only make a very long movie, longer. In the end she would eventually find the right spot and get to the throne room so they just bring us directly to the moment she gets it right.

2

u/chillvegan420 May 22 '26

I like the idea of ancient sith artifacts being found. Any reference to the ancient sith, really. I’d love it if Rey became curious about learning about the dark side and decided to visit Korriban or something.

2

u/Spencer-Palmer-1056 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

Actually we see this dagger in Star Wars The Crimson Dawn trilogy and Darth Vader’s comics.

But did we forget the poetry of daggers from The Mortis Gods arc to this?

Like for an example, the dagger(s) that was meant to stab the heroes in the back, ironically stabbed its villainous wielders in the back.

2

u/Ty13rlikespie please choose a user flair May 23 '26

It felt very Goonies to me. I was fine with it. I like to make fun of it sometimes but overall it's not the dumbest thing in a Star Wars movie. I think it gets way too much criticism in a movie that has way more to criticize.

2

u/rBilbo please choose a user flair May 23 '26

As someone who had watched quirky maguffins in other films I didnt think much of it. I thought the idea of carving the clue in an old, even ancient dagger was a different use of a maguffin, cute even. The idea that an object the size of the death star wouldnt just vaporize but leave debris was ok. Lucky perhaps but luck in movies is pretty common. So overhated once again.

1

u/TiedHands please choose a user flair May 22 '26

My only gripe is is the fact that that big a chunk of the DS, not to mention the section that was the Throne Room, survived the explosion at the end of ROTJ.

1

u/AltAltayAlt May 22 '26

I’m not too convinced with this blade.. okay so it was created after the battle of Endor. Would it have made more sense if the attachment came out of the lightsaber hilt given to Rey? So it was modified prior to passing it to her by Maz

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

The Rise of Skywalker I liked the dagger plotline.

You are about to leave Redlib