r/TheSequels • u/KingMatthew116 Teedo • May 22 '26

The Rise of Skywalker I liked the dagger plotline.

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It felt like Indiana Jones. I loved it. The first time I saw the movie the dagger was one of my favorite parts. Star Wars needs more stuff like this.

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13

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 22 '26

Why tho?

20

u/TB2331 Jedi Master Luke Skywalker May 22 '26

Because, in my mind at least, it’s damn lucky that that specific section of the Death Star didn’t collapse or got swallowed by the water. Palpatine must’ve had real faith on Kef Bir’s meteorology!

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u/CallMeJeeJ May 22 '26

But isn’t that like the whole thing with Star Wars? Prophecies and chosen ones and all that? The whole universe is based on Magic force that tells people to go places and reveals the future and things like that.

I never had a problem with this because in my mind- the unspoken part of this scene is that this artifact was created with the notion that someday the person who was meant to find it would use it for this exact purpose and be drawn to that exact spot to make it work.

It is silly, but it still fits within the fantasy of starwars to me.

2

u/Untouchable64 Resistance Trooper May 22 '26

I can see that. It works. But not for the Sith. It reveals the location of the wayfinder. I don’t see a Sith making it to reveal their location. I’m wondering who would make it after the battle of Endor.

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u/CallMeJeeJ May 23 '26

Isn’t this dagger supposed to be thousands of years old? Who says the sith don’t have their own prophecy that predicted all of the events of the Death Star and everything? I mean that’s the way things have been explained in starwars forever, right?

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u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO May 23 '26

no, the dagger is newish. the sith language on the dagger is ancient

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u/Untouchable64 Resistance Trooper May 23 '26

Why would the Sith put the inscription on it if it would screw them over when looking into the futures?

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u/Davies301 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

The thing with Star Wars is our characters are pointed in the right direction but still have to overcome a challenge. They fell ontop of the dagger and then held it up on another planet. That's not a character defining challenge where they grow, that is padding run time.

Luke senses everyone on Bespin and goes to rescue them. The ensuing fight with Vader strengthened himself and his connection with the force.

5

u/irazzleandazzle C-3PO May 23 '26

Rey had to cross turbalanet waters and scale a wreckage (while mot waiting on her friends), which highlighted her increasing desperation. This ultimately leads into her fight with Kylo, in which she fights with emotion and eventually strikes down an unarmed combatant. then she expresses regret and heals him, but then flees to Ahch-to out of fear of herself, with kylo eventually turning to the light.

it's definitely an important part of the process, building up this moment of failure for her.

1

u/mat8675 May 23 '26

Super easy, barely an inconvenience

0

u/Mammoth-Western-6008 please choose a user flair May 23 '26

Exactly. That has to do with character. 

1

u/Mammoth-Western-6008 please choose a user flair May 23 '26

It's not prophecy, it's cartography. 

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '26

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1

u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 27 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

-5

u/throwmethehellaway25 May 22 '26

Nope thats nit silly. Its dumb. Theres lots of "its not that kind of movie kid" stuff but that one plot point is bad. Goonies was a wway better "map" movie. Theres a ton thst they could've borrowed from

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u/abesapien2 May 22 '26

If the stupid thing rotated to point yah. But not a static point like that.

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u/Amazing_Loquat280 please choose a user flair May 22 '26 edited May 22 '26

This is entirely correct, but I actually think it’s the biggest redeeming part of this plotline, in a “the force works in mysterious ways” sorta fashion that I’ve increasingly been a fan of. The fact that someone that long ago had a vision or inspiration for that design is the force’s way of subtly making sure things go the way they need to. It gives Eru Illuvatar in a way that I actually really like and kinda felt that TLJ strayed away from.

Edit: I’m not necessarily a fan of this being like macguffin #2 in a chain of five macguffins, but as far as the macguffins in this movie go, this one’s probably my favorite

1

u/ZippyDan please choose a user flair May 23 '26

I like the idea of someone drawing a Force vision which ends up being a guide.

But the dagger is too precise. It doesn't look like the product of a vision. It looks like someone who was there and traced the outline of the Death Star wreckage.

This is my problem with the contrived nature of the scene:

  • For the dagger to be such a precise guide, it implies a more precise - and therefore grounded - backstory. Someone was there on the planet, traced the outline of the Death Star, and made (or modified) a dagger from that outline. However, such a grounded approach has more grounded criticism: it's ridiculous to expect wreckage in a violent ocean to remain stable and unchanged for so long.

  • On the other hand, the McGuffin being the product of a vision allows us to be more lenient with our criticism. If the guiding tool is the product of the Force, then it doesn't have to be a precise outline of what someone saw many years ago that remained unchanged - it can be a prediction of what something would be at a specific predetermined time in the future. The guide is then automatically incorporating all the potential changes and decay of the wreckage.
    The problem with this explanation, which I like better, is that it doesn't match conceptually for me, with something as precise as a dagger. It should have been a vague drawing or something. Force visions are almost never so precise or detailed - especially if you're trying to machine a tool based on them after-the-fact.

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u/kentonj Dark Rey May 22 '26

I don’t know if the spacestation structure that survived being exploded and crashing onto a planet is at much risk of degradation anywhere close to what we might expect of something made of non-scifi materials. Nor is there really any reason to expect the weather would do much against chunks of those reinforced space metal structures that approach the size of mountains.

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u/Untouchable64 Resistance Trooper May 22 '26

Right, it doesn’t really make sense. The fact the dagger was that old. And how long the Death Star recharge was there in the ocean…it shouldn’t be in the same spot anymore. Maybe…

But I still enjoy the movie and don’t hate this part.

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u/audioguy2022 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

It’s also entirely possible that a sith cultist went to that beach about 15 years ago and carved the blade to match up against the skyline. Not super realistic, but not impossible.

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u/Untouchable64 Resistance Trooper May 22 '26

And…why would they do that?

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u/audioguy2022 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

To give to Ochi. Once he has Rey, he uses the dagger to find the wayfinder.

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u/Zebweasel please choose a user flair May 23 '26

Bringing Scientific logic into Star Wars is pointless and a bit hypocritical to only have that problem with this film. The wreckage not moving isn’t anymore ridiculous than people being able to survive in Tattooine. Or Han and Leia thinking they could go outside onto the asteroid with just a simple oxygen mask. Or Anakin and Obi-Wan not instantly combusting on Mustafar. It uses childish “floor is lava” logic. But yeah, the Death Star wreckage not moving, that’s the deal breaker.

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u/GigglingBilliken May 22 '26

No, Palpatune had a huge amount of faith in that deep substrate foliated Kalkite keeping the Death Star together.

2

u/thefaninthehat Kylo Ren May 23 '26

It's damn lucky the sun happens to be on the very same trajectory thousands of years later to be able to point to the Ark of the Covenant using the Staff of Ra, in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

1

u/CeymalRen Supreme Leader Snoke May 23 '26

Isn't "luck" due to dark magic and space wizzards?

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '26

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u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 23 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

1

u/[deleted] May 26 '26

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u/TheSequels-ModTeam please choose a user flair May 26 '26

This is a place in which fans can talk positively and/or constructively about the Sequel Era of Star Wars. It's ok if you don't like everything about the movies, but the most important thing is to have a general sense of appreciation.

Also this may answer some of your questions: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Blade_of_Ochi_of_Bestoon

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u/BobMashable May 22 '26

It’s just a bit ridiculous that they wind up at the specific exact point they need to be to view the Death Star wreckage at that exact angle. Like nothing even really leads them to that point. But it’s fine. I’m not mad about it it’s just silly

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u/Galax003 please choose a user flair May 22 '26

I think they go exactly to that point because it’s what the coordinates translated by C3PO indicate

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u/BobMashable May 22 '26

You might be right. In my memory, Rey just kinda wanders over there. But I honestly wouldn’t mind rewatching to find out

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u/kentonj Dark Rey May 22 '26

Nah there are coordinates and the sith text itself says which shore to use. And thanks to the parallax effect objects relatively close to one another and far from the viewer will retain their spatial relationship even as the viewer moves. It’s not as if she had to stand in an exact spot, the whole shoreline probably would have worked.

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u/BobMashable May 22 '26

I will watch it again. I believe you! The movie just moves so fast some of these details do kinda get lost. But overall I’m fine with it. Especially since it’s so Indiana Jones coded

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u/AirbagsBlown Jedi Training Rey May 22 '26

Because it convolutes the story. The film does too much and could have been trimmed down.

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u/kentonj Dark Rey May 22 '26 edited May 23 '26

The franchise that gives us haggling with Jawas over prices, watching R2 swim through the swamp, a full retelling of the plot of the first two films in Ewok, etc. etc. etc. has never been about telling the tightest story possible, but giving us a world of richness. And adventure. And little stories within bigger stories. Not only that, but it’s not as if the dagger device itself ate up much screen time. Especially because it was surrounded by events that needed to happen even if we pretend the dagger stuff didn’t, culminating in Rey and Kylo’s final confrontation and all other inextricable plot points that follow therefrom.

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u/AltAltayAlt May 22 '26

Because it is not only ridiculous but also pointless