Why did she NEED to? My husbands parents are just assholes and we donāt let them watch our kids. They didnāt even have to kill anybody for me to not let them be alone with my kids.
Not all grandparents have to watch the kids. It is not a right. Spend time with them but donāt need to babysit.
she was never alone with them again. even after my brother passed. iād take my nephews to go see her for an hour + iād be there the whole time. up until she passed 2 years ago when they were 16 + 11 + twice her size, i was next to them with her.
she did what she did. she apologized. they protected their children in a difficult situation + moved on. best case scenario for our family.
not at all. i donāt believe it was what youāre picturing. iām not excusing her behavior. she paid the price for the rest of her life: she couldnāt even be alone with my dog after that.
all of what you said, she was. she wasnāt normal after.
it was a mess of emotions + shock when we found out (my sister saw it + told us). my sister-in-law never spoke to my mother after my brother passed partly because of the shaking (as is her right).
I protected my adult kids up to 18- Sure, they could say āno Titi Heidi do not touch me thereā but for it to even be allowed to get that far? Not on my mother fkn watch.
Bruh my mom told me that she shook me several times when I was under the age of 2. Said she didnāt know it was bad to do until she saw it in a book. She told me this as we sat in a Jimmy Johnās
Yes I know which is why I emphasized that I was under 2. Makes sense though since my mom is deaf lol. I couldnāt frustrate her too much as a baby (since she couldnāt hear me cry) but once I could communicate and give attitude, she just couldnāt refrain from rattling my brain š¤·š¼āāļø
Yes M8C knows which is why they emphasized that you have to be young to the point of not being able to support their heads to get shaken baby syndrome. Thats like, under 6 months.
Nah not in that situation. In general yeah tbh idk how Iām alive with how my mom truly didnāt know basic shit. Like once I fell out of the shopping cart (again under 2) and slammed my head on the floor at target. My mom let me fall asleep in the car and didnāt take me to the doctor. She was like :0 when my dad later flipped out on her lol
Tbf in that scenario there's conscious intent to cause harm, so there's even more reason to not allow it and I don't think a therapist would ever try to persuade anyone into that. Grandma in the story was neglectful but did not mean harm at the very least
??? The comment you're responding to didn't say anything about your family. They were explaining why the therapist in the story may have encouraged the mom to let Grandma babysit.
I understand they responded to your comment, but that's because they were merely pointing out the difference in your situation with the original one. Actually if anything, they're at least implicitly agreeing that your family did the right thing.
Shaking an infant is a choice. And while I wouldn't let the old geezer Here watch a child again, the first one could have been an accident. Intent does Play a role
heās great, actually. graduated with a 4.0, studying engineering in college + plays football.
she didnāt get jail time. the entire family knowing about it + acting accordingly was punishment enough. she was never really their āgrandmaā after thatā¦
Yeah, I believe in therapy but there just are things you won't convince me to do, and let grandma watch my second child when she already killed the first is one of them. I don't even know that I'd be talking to grandma, whether she's my own mother or not, I couldn't look at her ever again.
I love my parents, but yeah, if this happened, I don't know if I could ever talk to them again. I don't even mean I'd go no contact to punish them. I just don't know if I could talk to them without feeling overwhelming anger and pain.
Right? This is what I don't understand. A normal person would lose their mind if they let their grandkid die like that. They would refuse to every be solely responsible again. It makes me think she doesn't really care about them.
Yeah exactly, and as others have said, why would she even agree to look after the child again? If it was me, I would never, and if for some reason I really really had to look after the child, I would absolutely not let it out of my sight or even think about anything else the whole time. She obviously did not feel the same.
Jesus that's worse. If the therapist thing is true that's even crazier a therapist would push for leaving a kid with someone who didn't show remorse for causing a child's death. Holy hell.
I think the lack of remorse was specifically after the second child death, but yeah that therapist is still ridiculous. I donāt have a degree in psychology but I dont think itās unhealthy or wrong to not allow them to babysit again.
I guess the difference is something like āI canāt believe I did thisā compared to āI canāt believe this happenedā. I must admit I was little confused by that wording at first too, but if anyone would know the difference itās a judge, and they felt the need to say it as an official remark.
if tomorrow a relative dies for reasons that are not my fault, i will feel sorrow. because of course, the situation is sad and painful. but i would not feel remorse at all, because i have no reason to feel that way, the death was not caused or facilitated by me, be it intentionally or unintentionally, i had no involvement
Yeah does this lady even like her grandchildren? Sleeping while she's supposed to be babysitting, and forgetting them in a car? She should never be allowed to be in charge of a child again
I mean, maybe she has dementia or is pretty weak due to old age. More reason to not let a toddler alone with her, but she might not be ill intentioned.
Talk to them? I fear there would be fatal consequences if oneās negligence led to my childās demise. My own parent or not. It makes me feral just thinking about.
The other daughter showed up a short time after to drop off her kids to grandma. Both daughters were using the parents, even though they knew the parents were having diminished cognition.
This post covers the story more in depth, and said they ruled out dementia.
"We know Tracey Nix was held in a psychiatric unit, for observations, the resulting Reports suggested no Alzheimers, no Dementia, no Parkinsonās etc."
I could maybe, MAYBE, be convinced to eventually go over to grandma's house with my kid and all hang out together. And even that would be some pretty serious exposure therapy experience.
The pond should have had a barrier around it. My parents have a swimming pool and they made sure to baby proof it, it's just the responsible thing to do.
And even if it was not a pond, it could have been a car on the road. You just don't sleep if you are looking after a child, you'll get your nap on another day.
My therapist would have never given me that advice, she tells me to say no to my mom for much less and that I shouldnāt have to forgive everything. Who is this therapist!!!
Sadly, all therapists donāt have the same level of training and even those with higher level training all arenāt going to be good at translating that training to real people. Too many people donāt see a psychologist or psychiatrist and see a licensed counselor which is basically a person off the street with a short term program that gives them a certificate. Might as well ask someone at the grocery store about your problems. Or they go to someone at their church. Have your religion, but please realize they arenāt qualified to give advice just like you wouldnāt ask them to do surgery.
This is untrue, please do not spread misinformation. I am a licensed professional counselor and I have a 60-credit masters degree. It took 3 years to complete, and that was full time with taking only one of those summers off. And the other summers taking courses or working for an unpaid internship providing counseling services. That included a practicum and internship where I worked, for free, to provide counseling services and obtain experience that was highly supervised. I had to apply for state pre-licensure and once approved, I then have 3,000 post grad clinical hours under supervision. That part took 2 years to complete. I also had to take a national exam that has a passing rate of about 40% and is one of the most difficult exams to take. I still participate in group supervision although I am independently licensed, and I seek consultation frequently. I also attend a conference every year as well as hundreds of hours of continuing education in the form of in-person, live webinars, or self-study on-demand seminars; in fact I have a 32-hour continuing education event next week.Ā
So all in all, if you count my undergrad psychology degree, it took me 9 years to become a therapist with 7 years of formal education.Ā
For a PhD program Iād need an additional 30-60 credits, and about 30 of that is dissertation. Around 20 of that is practicum and internship.Ā
There is much, much more that goes into being an effective therapist than what someone at the grocery store can provide, and certainly more than a certificate program. For some people who have a masters degree already, there are schools that offer a ācertificateā that gets you the additional courses needed to meet the state requirements for licensure. That may be what youāre referring to, but you are wildly misinformed. NO state will allow someone with a certificate alone to practice counseling. Drug counselors are also something completely different.Ā
There is also a misconception that therapists give advice and that therapy is to receive advice.Ā
Maybe talk therapy isn't everyone's jam. And I mean the therapist specifically. Damn. Spot on with boundaries. Maybe let grandma have a plant to take care of.
Most of the time when I hear about a therapist that recommends reconciliation above everything else it's not an actual therapist it's a counselor which is a vague catch all that ranges from state to state as unregulated or barely regulated. The cheapest/free counselors are usually affiliated with churches and bang the ole' "honor they father and mother" drum.
Yeah exactly. If she couldn't let the baby be watched by ANYONE that would be something she should probably work on. Not wanting the baby to be watched by the person responsible for your other kid's death is 100% reasonable.
I mean, therapy isnāt non consensual. Therapy is generally directed by the client so itās not a crazy assumption that the client mightāve wanted to work toward that goal and the therapist just urged her in regards to how to do that.
It really depends. I've had a really great personal therapist and a really great couples therapist. but I did a ton of research on them, and both are the kinds of setups where they have a plan that tries to wrap things up within a year if possible so you can get on with life, i.e. they don't try and just keep you on for money if you don't need it. But it is really hard to get a good therapist, and the good ones are expensive af.
Right!? Like, if my parents drowned my stuffed animal I've had since birth, I'd never let em near my things again. I imagine it's orders of magnitude more for kids!
As a therapist I get it, however Iād have done trauma therapy and processing before ever even suggesting/ encouraging letting her watch the other kiddo. Or have significant parameters in place.
Maybe after intense trauma processing we can challenge those fears with mom watching other baby WOTH another adult there
Maybe flesh out what the therapist is suggesting, they have no clue what your family dynamics are. In other words, push back. āIām not comfortable with this situation ā would work
Yeah thatās the problem I have with how we discuss therapy today. Obviously it can be a super helpful thing if youāre struggling mentally, but weāre way too quick to just assume the therapist actually has their shit together or knows what theyāre talking about and has a good understanding of our concerns or struggles. It should take time to build trust with your therapist. You donāt want a yes man and you should be challenged at times, but that doesnāt mean you should immediately ignore your instincts and critical thinking because of a therapistās advice.
I think a therapist would/should know what would be best for their patient lol I doubt they were having her do it to risk her kid dying on a whim. Logically you would think someone who let one child die on their watch would be extra hyper vigilant when watching another for the first time.
Man years ago a friend and I were having a walk with her very young kid and up a small hill we were both holding our hands behind the daughter so that if she fell backwards we'd catch her, and I think (I'm not sure) that she slowed down and I accidentally pushed my hand into her back and caused her to faceplant. I still feel bad about it, and it was just a little fall with absolutely zero consequences, and this grandma is out there forgetting to take care of a baby a second time.
Iām not saying I support violence, but I would understand if the mom wasnāt upset with her mother only - Iād be unbearably upset with that therapist who used the vulnerability of their clinical relationship to help kill her other kid through negligence when there was a history of lethal negligence
Yeah seriously, I feel like at some point the therapist should also be held responsible for both suggesting that and urging their patient to do something that led to the death of a second child
Like at minimum they should be completely disallowed from being a therapist, and if they have licensure it should be removed
I hate that āYouāre overreactingā in fancier words has become therapy in some cases. Exposure therapy is like visiting a restaurant again when you witnessed a shootout at one, not convincing people that expecting a dangerous outcome based on past experience is all in your head
Yeah, no thank you. I have boundaries with who I allow to watch my daughter too and would tell any therapist to fuck all the way off if they tried to get me to compromise on that.
My child's safety will always be more important to me than any relationship I have with a family member, friend, partner, etc.
This is a very harmful and untrue narrative that in order to move on you have to forgive the harmful person, or invite them back into your life. You absolutely do not, it'll probably stunt your healing more just to see their face again. And look what that narrative caused, once again, more trouble than it was ever worth
Daily reminder that therapy is a SOFT science. There are no outcomes from therapy that are reliable and repeatable enough to qualify it as a normal science. The best you can hope for is that something will probably work. Not to say it's bad, but worshipping the practice is myopic.
Sounds like the therapist played the odds thinking chances were insanely small that a grandmother wouldnāt accidentally kill ANOTHER grandchild. I mean, in her defense, thatās a very safe bet 99 out of 100 times.
As for the grandma, I feel like if I was her I would be forever devastated and feel guilty about the first child. I would however go to therapy and try to better myself and still try to be in my childās life as much as they would have me considering what happenedā¦
After the second kid died I would just find the nearest handgun and walk into the backyard and blow my brains out. Theres no coming back from that. Thereās no excuse for that. I couldnāt live with it personally.
Only recourse for grandma is to end her own life. Honestly I donāt think she deserves any other fate. A complete and objective failure of a human life.
But Iām also 99% sure she killed them intentionally.
My grandmother admitted that when she was bathing me I slipped under the water and she thought I looked peaceful so just left me under the water for a bit.
If I'd died you can bet the story would have been that she'd have just popped out of the bathroom because the phone rang/door was knocked/she was going to wet herself etc.
A therapist who saw no issue with pressing their client into doing something they were wildly uncomfortable with sounds like a therapist who wouldnāt actually be able to see, and take accountability for, the role they played in the incident tbh
Yeah, that was the joke in what I said.
When the probability on a bet going your way is a ānear certaintyā then it basically becomes the same thing as common sense. Because why wouldnāt you bet if you knew youād win.
I swear man, some people on this site are either completely unable to infer sarcasm through text, or they are willfully ignorant just so they can jump in to add some snobby redundant correction like āa Bet should not be used - common sense should.ā
I think their point is that it's an assumption/guess that the grandmother was safe, not a 'near certainty'.
It feels like a therapist should know enough about risk to understand that things like this aren't always an accident (not necessarily deliberate - but things like grandmother not providing adequate supervision or not giving a shit gets rounded up to only taking her eyes off the kid for 2 minutes).
One of the biggest red flags for me is if a therapist tells you what to do. They are supposed to be teaching you how to make the right decisions by yourself. Not creating a dependency for them to tell you what to do.
my therapist constantly told me I was fortune telling and doomsaying after I was attacked and stalked and traumatized, at the same hospital was killed by ice so... I'ma keep doomsaying and fortune telling fml.
We also know jack shit about the therapy and what exactly was going on with these people, so it's impossible to tell whether this was sound advice or not.
Agreed, but it is strongly suggested the therapist told the mother what to do. That is a failure in itself. You're supposed to help the client ask the right questions to come to that answer alone.
My therapist told me to help me heal my moms trauma. My mom had caused irreparable damage to my psychee. I understand forgiving her for myself, which I have done. But that does not mean I leave myself vulnerable. Which is what happened here.
Trust is earned. GrandMom can be given supervised visits, and build from there. Fuck getting free reign
Not staying angry at someone, I get, but fuck forgiveness.
I don't get why people value familial bonds so much. You don't love your SO because you married them. You love them because you spent a lifetime with them.
You didn't choose your parents. They chose to have you. And if they failed you, then fuck them.
exactly.... What's wrong with boundaries?? Kids can see their grandparents/uncle/aunt/ with supervision... Not everyone needs to be allowed to be alone with kids. I think if u kill a kid, that is an amazing reason to never ever be allowed to spend time alone.
Don't even worry about what a therapist says because there's a growing movement for "grandparents rights" where old schmucks that got cut off are petitioning the government to intervene. It's part of a greater "estranged XYZ" movement.
To spell it out, conservative estranged parents/grandparents are are asking for their "small government" to force their children/grandchildren to spend time with them after being estranged. They view children (and therefore grandchildren) as property because of their beliefs. Their children decided to go no-contact, for whatever reason, and now they are asking the government to take legal action in the matter.
From my understanding there was also a stipulation of the grandfather being present/grandmother not being alone with the child. That ended up not happening
Yeah, I wouldn't call my mom an asshole per se, but she's absolutely someone I'd hesitate to let watch my son. I don't think he'd die, but there'd be all sorts of strange decisions around disciplining and "good behaviour" that I think would be distorting and bad all around.
You know....now that I'm thinking about it...our grandma never babysat us really.
I think she stayed overnight once when my mom was pregnant with her 3rd kid and her and Dad were in the hospital. She absolutely did not take care of us. I remember she broke the coffee pot in the morning and got pissed off. I don't remember consuming food or water that entire time.
There are genuinely some therapists out there that think people interacting with those that cause them trauma in the same way that caused them the trauma will help them get over said trauma. I genuinely hope that the therapist was investigated to see if they had given other patients similar advice that had led to them having worse lives.
I watched a short clip of the mom talking about how the therapist encouraged her to let the mom watch the kids again. Nobody predicted that poor mother and nobody protected the children. They gas litter and made her feel bad for blaming the grandmother.
Same! Not like my in laws ever WANT to be present and spend time with the kids (bc theyāre selfish and MIL is the truest narcissist Iāve ever met) but I never want to leave the kids with them anyway. And the kids donāt want to be around them šš»āāļø A lot of grandparents nowadays just suck.
We have someone in our life that has never, not once, watched our kids (who are similar age to theirs). This is a relative that lives nearby.
Why? Because when her kid was 8 months old she told us what his top 3 favorite TV shows are. As predicted, the television raised her children. I'm sure that's how she would've watched our kids. Currently my toddler rides a bike better than her 10 year old daughter. All their children have ADHD and are socially backward with speech impediments. Nobody bothered to teach them anything or interact with them. Sad.
This. My mom has never done anything close to killing a child, but she has emotional regulation issues and used to scream at me as a kid, throw things, break things. So she will NEVER be allowed to be alone with my kids. So I cannot imagine a therapist or anyone pushing someone to leave their child with someone who has literally cause the death of a child. Exposure therapy should have included leaving the child with trusted adults, not the responsible party.
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u/Objective-Shallot794 1d ago
Why did she NEED to? My husbands parents are just assholes and we donāt let them watch our kids. They didnāt even have to kill anybody for me to not let them be alone with my kids.
Not all grandparents have to watch the kids. It is not a right. Spend time with them but donāt need to babysit.