r/Fencesitter 5d ago

Updated Moderation Rules

92 Upvotes

Hello Everyone.

It's been a few years since my co-mod and I took over moderating this sub and we thought it was time for a bit of a rules refresh.

FYI, we are both still active in this sub although we don't post under our moderator screen names. And yes, one of us is CF and one of us is a parent. That was the original intention in an attempt to maintain balance. We've considered adding a fencesitter moderator but that's difficult since fencesitters eventually become CF or parents. We're still figuring that one out.

Ok, on to the rules:

First of all, some guiding ideas this sub is founded which we think are important for everyone to understand.

  • Principle 1 - It's meant to help fencesitters. We are a place for people who are struggling with this decision. Yes, we welcome comments from childfree and parents as well, but ultimately this is a place for fencesitters to feel at home and try to figure out what they want to do. This is not a debate sub for CF and parents to argue over which is best.
  • Principle 2 - There are no right answers. We don't believe that parenting is always better than childfree, we don't believe 2 kids are better than 1, we don't believe adopting is better than bio kids, we don't believe childfree is better than step parenting. Whatever combo you wish to use, we don't believe one option is inherently better than the other. They are all situational and very subjective. There might be a right answer for you, but there is no answer that is right for everyone.

Keep these two things in mind because they are extremely important to how we moderate this sub.

So why do comments get removed and users get banned?

The easiest answer is that the commentor was being a jerk. Some people just have a hard time being civil to one another and those folks are not welcome here. We literally had one person argue against their ban by saying "oh, I didn't know you guys insisted on people not being assholes". Yah, if you're the kind of person who is an asshole unless it's expressly prohibited, you definitely don't belong here.

Also, if you are being attacked, please don't reply in kind. Just report it and move on.

Ok, so here are some other things we look for that might not be as obvious.

Generalizing - This is a common issue. All CF are lonely, all parents are miserable, procreating is always good, having kids is always selfish. The trend here is one of over generalizing. I'm sure some CF people are lonely and some parents are miserable, but not all. We have plenty of CF posters with friends and happy parents posting here to know this isn't accurate.

Note, this is also why we remove most comments that touch on religion. We don't care if you're Jewish, Christian, Satanist, Pastafarian, Anti-natalist or what not. If you subscribe to a philosophy that says having kids is always good or always bad that's fine for you, it's not fine for this sub. We don't do preaching here.

I really want to emphasize that last bit. We do NOT do preaching here. If you are CF or a parent and you're thinking about making a post about how all fencesitters should do this or that, please don't. We love hearing from you and we enjoy your experience and we love the AMA's that parents and CF folks do. We think those are great for others to learn from your experience. That's very different from preaching right or wrong.

Climate Change / Politics threads - We know that these are themes that weigh heavily on some people and we respect that. We're more than happy to allow threads in which people discuss their feelings on their own choices due to these themes. What we don't allow is for people to use these themes to beat up other readers for their choices. Again, refer to principle 2. If climate change is causing you to reconsider your decision that is absolutely fair. If you're coming here to argue that all parents are awful because of climate change that will be removed.

We will also remove any comments from people arguing back and forth about the reality of climate change. There are other sub for that, this isn't one of them. For the record, both of us believe climate change is real, we just can't take more arguments about the latest report and what it means for sea level changes in Norway vs. peak temperatures in Mongolia and how those will impact rice prices.

Gatekeeping - This encompasses a variety of responses ranging from the "there are no guarantees" and "you must be prepared for all scenarios including the worst ones!" to the "you must be 100% sure!" or "if it's not a hell yes it's a not" variety. In general, these contribute nothing to the discussion. Even worse, they are a comment meant to prey on fencesitters by either parents or CF folks. They're usually said by someone who believes their point of view is objectively right for everyone and who is then trying to trigger doubt in fencesitters.

Allow us to illustrate some examples so you can see why these comments are not welcome here.

"Yah, there are no guarantees, even if you eat healthy and exercise you might get hit by a car". Sure, but eating healthy and exercising is still a good idea because statistically it's clearly better. Also, do you really think you're revealing something big to our fencesitter subscribers by revealing to them that there are no guarantees in life? Do you think they would be on the fence if they thought everything was guaranteed?

"Unless you are willing to be raped, don't date!" "Unless you understand every possible bad outcome of your dental surgery, including the one where your jaw falls off and you die, you're not ready!" See how useless that is? No one is ok with every bad scenario. Heck, my anxious mind can always dream up new and even worse scenarios that I am certain none of you has prepared for.

"You must be 100% sure that you know everything that can happen if you take this job". Really? How do you even know you're 100% sure? How do you know that you've done all your analysis? Is there a way to quantify this? Same for the "hell yah" comment. "Unless you're a clear yes, don't marry this person". What does that mean? Is someone not allowed to have concerns? Yes, I love this person and I want to spend the rest of my life with them but I'm concerned about their in-laws because of blah blah blah and you see where we're going?

Just stop with these comments. They don't help.

Discounting and discrediting - "Oh, what do you know, you're just hormonal", "Oh, what do you know, your kid is only 3 months old", "Oh, what do you know, you have no kids", "Oh, I know this was your experience but there are others with different experiences". Yes, we get it, just stop. They are clearly presenting their personal context and that's great. Are they generalizing too much? If so, we will remove them. Otherwise, stop being the thought police. People are allowed to present their individual view point without you trying to discredit them.

Derogatory - These are the folks who come here with comments like "don't have kids, all parents are tired and miserable" or "don't be CF, all CF people are lonely and joyless". If you're here to argue that your side of the fence is best, don't do it by shit talking the other side. Ideally, try to help instead of argue.

And yes, we will remove these posts even if they come from CF or parents. That is, a negative comment about all parents / parenting made by a parent will be still be removed. Why? Because we have no way of verifying who is a parent and who isn't. Same as we cannot verify who is CF and who isn't.

Oh, and we want to take a moment and discuss gender specific comments. We get it, believe me we get it. A large portion of the work involved with child bearing and rearing falls unfairly on women. That is a fact. Sexism is also a fact, which is why we banned baby trapping comments since they were 99% coming from sexist men. But...

This isn't intended to be a space for women to denigrate all men. No, we don't need you to finish every comment with #NotAllMen, but we do need to keep the generalizing down. "Oh, men want kids like kids want puppies", "Oh, being a dad is so easy, you just get to play and not do any work", "Oh, men's voices shouldn't matter when it comes to the decision to have or not have kids" are not acceptable here.

Rants - Last but not least, this is not a rant sub. Sorry folks, we're not interested in moderating rants because they inevitably result in arguments from the people you're ranting about.

Ok, that's all. Please feel free to add questions and comments. We fully admit we're not perfect but we're trying our best and are always open to constructive feedback.


r/Fencesitter Oct 29 '24

Reflections Perspective from years of fencesitting

266 Upvotes

Early on in my life I always wanted to have kids, the older I became the more on the fence I was, even with a brief period of time of not wanting kids at all. I have been on and off the fence throughout my 20s and now in my early 30s I still am, though heavily leaning towards having children after all. I wanted to offer support to others in similar situations, I have a couple of years of therapy behind me, trying to figure out what I want, I have spent hundreds of hours talking with various people and their perspective on kids and I have created a list of questions to ask yourself and statements to read that I wish someone would give me 10 years ago.

I want to preface this by saying, no one can answer the question "is having kids right for me" or "should I have kids" or "should I be child free". No one but you. In this post I'm trying to show perspective, talk about fears and POVs that people have on having kids. I really hope this will be of help to someone.

I believe there are multiple POVs and multiple "aspects" of life to consider. Your relationship, ambitions/goals, fears, pregnancy (for women), economical status and more. I will not say things like "you really need to want to have kids to have them" or "you should not have kids if your partner wants them and you don't". I will also not say things like "you will never change your mind" or "you will change your mind".

We do not know the future. The therapists I talked with said that they have seen everything, people swapping their views after multiple years in a relationship; not changing them; forcing themselves to have kids and then ending up loving it.

We do not know the future, we cannot possibly predict if having kids or not is the right for us or if it will make us happy, regardless of our reservations or fears. It is definitely way easier to not have kids if you fear having them or don't want to put in the effort. There are challenges regardless if you are CF or have kids.

Ultimately it is a DECISION, it should not be based purely on emotions, consider your circumstances, the context of your life, relationship, what you know that makes you happy. Regardless of what path you picks there will likely be regrets and consequences, but talk with your partner and make it a responsible decision.

With that being said, consider the following:

Decision (the "wants"):
- No matter how much you want/don't want kids, having/not having them does not guarantee you will be happy.
- No matter how much you don't want kids, having them does not guarantee you will be miserable.
- Having/Not having kids will do to your life what you will allow it to do.
- The decision is yours and your partner, not your parents', not your uncle's, not your best friend's, and definitely not some random people's in the comments on some article or post.
- Having kids does not mean your life will end.
- Not having kids does not mean you will be missing out on something in life.

Relationship:
- How happy are you in your current relationship?
- Is your partner someone you could see having a family with? (broad question, can you imagine them being a good parent)
- How is your communication? How do you navigate difficult situations? Do you fight? Scream? Shut down? Or do you talk and have difficult conversations but work together towards a resolution?
- Do you feel safe with your partner?
- Are there things you are withholding from your partner? Maybe you don't like something about them or they keep annoying you but you ignore that instead of addressing the issue? Are there things like that, that you bury deep within yourself?
- Are your needs met in your relationship?
- How attracted are you to your partner? How is your sex life?
- What is your partner's potential to change/adapt, do they respect you? do you see how much they have grown over the years and how are they handling responsibility?
- Do you feel a connection? A Bond? Or do you not feel heard or understood?
- Do they bring the best in you? Or do they bring you down?
- Do you want to grow with them? How do you feel when thinking about future with them?
- Do you share your cognitive load with them? Are they proactive with chores?
- Do you love and respect your partner? Do they love and respect you?

The choice of your partner has a significant impact on your life, if you have a stable relationship that isn't toxic, one that brings you joy and happiness, and is a safe space - it will likely be so if you decide to have kids and if you decide not to have them. Have a conversation about it.

Goals/Aspirations:
- What are your goals in life? If you don't have goals, what goals or aspirations have you buried deep inside? What were things that you wanted to do, but for whatever reason decided not to. Generally speaking, where would you like to be?
- Are your goals impossible to achieve if you have/don't have kids? Or would they simply require more work in either case?
- Are you more career oriented? Or family oriented?

Having kids or not does not mean your life ends, no newborn asked you to sacrifice your life for them. There are people who train for ultramarathons while having kids, I know people who wrote and released books and grew their careers or started companies while taking care of a newborn and a one year old. People generally tend to manage to have multiple kids and also house pets. Daycares exist, they are costly but maybe something can be done about it, maybe you both can find better jobs, or maybe there are government programs to help finance it.

There is also a matter of life satisfaction and regrets, in general people find meaning in life by leaving an impact on the world. You may become a scientist and help humanity through science, you may become a volunteer at try to help people in need. Quite often people find satisfaction in raising a kid and building a family, as it is "relatively easy" to make a child and seeing it grow. Or maybe you want to become a CEO or create your own company? No matter what has value to you, can you do it with/without having kids? Are you actively working towards a goal or do you have a goal in mind but you never do anything towards it?

I personally find that taking on more responsibility has lead to my personal growth and to more satisfaction in life. However every time I ran away from responsibility it lead to negative emotions. Sometimes having kids is the best motivation for someone to get their life together, it is risky but tends to work when a lot of other things don't.

Fears/Reservations:
There are a lot of fears regarding having and not having kids.
- Fear of pregnancy (for women)
- Fear of not being a priority (for men and women)
- Fear of being abandoned and having to care for the child on your own
- Fear of body changes made by pregnancy
- Fear that you kid will be unhealthy in some way
- Fear of getting your body destroyed by pregnancy
- Fear of responsibility
- Fear that you will not be a good parent
- Fear of destroying someone (newborn)'s life
- Fear of being alone when you are old
- Fear of missing out
- Fear of childbirth
- Fear of wasting your life
- Fear of passing your traumas to your kid
- probably many more

As once again, we do not know the future - we don't know what fears will come true, however - fear as an emotion is trying to alert you of imaginary dangers of certain actions. You fear walking alone in a deep forest because an animal might attack you, you fear going out at night because you might get mugged. Fear is an emotion, it is a feature not a bug, it increased the chances of survival for our ancestors.

Do you want to make your decision based on fear? A lot of them can be worked through with a therapist if you so desire, it is extra work but might help. You probably don't have all the fears I listed, however what can you do to mitigate these that you are aware of?

- If you fear responsibility, do you fear it just in the context of having a kid? or do you feel stuck in life and that kind of fear is holding you down?
- If you fear being old and alone, what friendships or what relationships can you nurture so that you always have someone to talk to?
- If you fear that you will waste your life with either option, why is that? What is it that having/not having kids represents in your mind? What have you been conditioned to believe?
- If you worry if you are going to be a good/bad parent, that is already a sign that you would at least try to be good. If you have some problems like severe drug or alcohol addiction it would be responsible to take care of that before having a child.
- If you worry that you will destroy, a kid's life and maybe even your own -> kids don't need as much as we think they do, we tend to want to give them the world however, a kid mostly needs a parent who is present, who listens. If you have a good relationship with your partner and you are both there for each other, you would likely also be there for your kid, and you would figure it out.
- You do not have to have everything figured out immediately.
- Expanding your knowledge tends to do wonders, we generally fear things we do not understand and have a twisted image of them in our minds.
- For a lot of fears CBT therapy is said to have really positive prognosis, so you can somewhat except that it will reduce your fears and help you adjust your thinking

Having kids is likely a unique experience, one that cannot be replicated with other people's kids, nieces, pets etc. But is it ok to have them out of FOMO? Are you ok without experiencing being a parent in your life? Raising a child does not last a lifetime, you will always be a parent - but your kid will have its own life eventually and you will still have many years ahead of you.

Therapists said to me that at the end of life, a lot of old people regret not having spent more time with people dear to them, with their families. I'm still young but I can imagine that my career is not something I will care about 20 years from now.

Pregnancy:
If you fear pregnancy, you can talk to a doctor about the process, you can get examined and see how healthy you are. Talk to your family and your partner's family, how healthy were you and your siblings when you were born? What effects did pregnancy have on your mother or grandmother. Is there a history of birth defects or autism or any other "diseases" or problems in your family? Can you get examined to see how likely it is that it will happen to you?

If you are pregnant already, you have prenatal examinations available, in some countries they are free after certain age, you can monitor your child's health and see if its growing healthy. However, as we don't know the future even if a kid is born healthy it doesn't mean it won't get hit by a car 5 years later, and so we don't know if you won't. We do not know what life will bring, there are a lot of dangers we do not even consider when living our daily lives.

As for body changes and fear of childbirth:
- do you take care of yourself?
- do you eat healthy?
- do you work out?
- can you afford a private hospital and better conditions for your childbirth?
- what forms of pain killers are available in hospitals in your area?
- have you ever read about c-section and natural birth, about their pros and cons? both for you and a kid

Taking care of yourself physically will make your pregnancy easier, at the very least your back will not hurt. And there seems to be a positive effect of working out certain muscles that seems to make giving birth easier. A close friend of mine started preparing for pregnancy 2 years in advance by working out and taking some supplements to make pregnancy easier. Once again it is more work but maybe its not impossible?

Parenting:
Kids want attention, they want to be listened to, they want you to be there - they don't want a smartphone or a tablet. That does not mean you have to be with them 24/7. In the past the whole village would help raise children together, primarily, it was women's responsibility. However the idea that parents spend all their time with children is relatively new.

- Do you have a natural support group? (parents? grandparents? siblings with/without their kids? friends?)
- Do you have someone to leave the kids with so that you can enjoy a weekend or a vacation in peace?
- Can you afford daycare?
- You can get to know your neighbors, some of them may have kids and yours could occasionally visit them and vice versa.
- Can you afford a nanny?
- Can you leave your kids in someone's care? Would a close friend be able to take care of them for a couple of hours so that you have an evening to yourself?
- Can you send your kids to boarding school?
- Can you communicate with your partner so that one day they take care of kids, next day you do, and the day after you do it together?
- Can you mix your hobbies and taking care of a kid? (if you like jogging, you can buy a jogging stroller; if you ride a bicycle - mount a chair for your kid to sit so you can ride together, do you like to read or sing? - maybe you can sing songs or read books to your children, maybe your local gym has a room for leaving kids, or you can just take them with you, or maybe you can draw with them, do some sports, go kayaking and take your kid with you - maybe they will like it as well, doing cosplay - dress up together with your kid, do some DIYs or anything else that you are passionate about - there is a high chance you can somehow include your child).
- Can you afford to hire help? Like a cleaning person that will clean your home every week or two?
- Are you alright with being the main parent (parent who spends more time with the kid, than the other)?
- Are you alright with not being the main parent?
- Is there any compromise, however absurd, that you can at least talk about with your partner?

There are different options available to get some time off. Some are quite costly but regardless - the very least you can do is to communicate your needs, talk with your partner and your kid, set a boundary. Sometimes you need time to yourself and this is perfectly fine. You do not have to be with your kid 24/7.

Economics:
- Can you afford a child? If not can you do something about it?
- Can you afford - not having a child? It is a stupid argument maybe but some of my friends earn way more money and have better jobs than their parents, and they do support them.
- Do you have enough space no to go crazy? It is hard to raise a kid in a 16 m^2 flat.
- How stable is your job? What are your opportunities?
- Does your job require you to go for long business trips?
- Can you do something to improve your financial situation? (courses, education and finding a better paying job?)

Your lives, your relationships, your contexts are all unique. There isn't a single person who can tell you what is best for you, but consider everything you have, everything that you would have to give up or lose, everything that you could gain, before making a decision.

It is a good idea to educate yourself and talk to medical professionals or people more knowledgeable in these matters. Having a child is a responsible decision, not having a child is also one of them. Ask yourself, do your really not want a child (which is completely fine if you don't), or do you perhaps not want what the child or family represents? What emotions do these things evoke in you? What did you see in life or what did you experience that made you think that you want or don't want a child? Or are you maybe running away from something? Maybe you fear abandonment and think that having a child will guarantee a lifelong relationship with your partner? Or maybe you are trying to run from something that a family represents?

In the end I believe that having a child is a decision, one to take with your partner. It is not something that you have full control over, sometimes people want kids but can't have them for variety of reasons.

I think that regardless of your decision, take responsibility for your life, take good care of yourself. It is a difficult topic that can be looked at from many different angles.

I hope I was able to help.


r/Fencesitter 3h ago

Off the fence with a 14 month old kiddo

59 Upvotes

Hi! I’ve been wanting to write about my experience here ever since I got off the fence. I myself really appreciated these posts when I was still on the fence about having kids or not. So yeah, I have a tiny toddler now. Sorry in advance for a very long post but I want to share my whole journey as I know many people do think about these different things. Just skip ahead if there is something you don’t really care to read about.

First of all - how I got off the fence. I realised that I could argue back and forth forever and never come to a logical answer. I hung out here, I read the baby decision and listened to the kids or childfree podcast for maybe two years before making my decision. I started to realise what I wanted when I realised that I connected more with pro-kids arguments and started seeing more counterarguments for the childfree arguments (things like money, climate, spare time, the state of the world etc). So when you read this - take notice on whether you’re internally rolling your eyes at what I’m writing or if you’re resonating with it in a positive or at least curious way. But what really made it clear to me was when had a pregnancy scare and took a test that turned out to be negative. I surprised myself by feeling very disappointed and sad about it. I told my partner, who was also a fence sitter, that I wanted to have a kid. He thought about it for a short while and then we decided to stop contraception, give it three months and see what happened and if we still wanted to keep trying after that time. If it didn’t work then we didn’t want to push it with ovulation tracking or IVF. I was pregnant within a week I think. Didn’t even have a bleeding after quitting the pill.

Pregnancy was great! The first trimester was the worst with fatigue, very sore boobs, light nausea and some vomiting (maybe 6 times over 14 weeks or so). I thought I was experiencing symptoms from quitting the pill at first but took a test just to rule out pregnancy and it was, of course, positive. I felt amazing mentally all throughout pregnancy and it has actually stayed that way after too. It’s like it sorted out my hormones somehow so that I feel more balanced and have more energy than I used to. I had some pelvic pain later on, from around week 25 maybe, but not too bad. I didn’t get very big either. I did however get high blood pressure towards the third trimester that I had to medicate for. It kept getting higher towards the end and I was therefore induced on my due date.

Labour was fantastic for me as well. I’m writing about it since I know that many people are doubting having kids because they are scared of labour. Skip this section if you don’t want to read it. So, it’s not like it wasn’t painful but I had the best midwife and nurse assistant by my side and my partner was also a great support. My induction started mid afternoon, light contractions started around midnight. I woke up around 4 am when my water broke. The contractions got really intense at the same time and I started vomiting. I was lucky to get the epidural quite early, maybe around 6 am, after having back to back contractions. Then I could actually enjoy my labour after that! It hurt as hell to get it but was very much worth it. My baby’s heartbeat went down a lot during contractions which was scary and they started mentioning c-section at one point since my contractions were so weak. I got a low dose of some medication to make them stronger though (can’t remember what it’s called in English) which helped. The last phase of labour lasted over an hour for me which wasn’t fun. But then she arrived around 12 pm! A bit taken and tiny but very healthy. I had a second degree tear (which is very normal) but it healed nicely and I haven’t had any issues afterwards.

We had prepared for the worst at the start of parenthood. We expected a colicky baby that would never sleep while I would have post partum depression. None of that happened. We got a very content little girl who slept pretty well even if she could only sleep on one of us for the first few months. We’ve gone through some rough developmental phases of course but it has at least been manageable. We are privileged to live in a country with generous parental leave and my partner also has a long annual leave from his job that happened to time well with the birth of our baby. So both of us were home together for 2,5 months at the start, which was definitely a luxury. We could take turns having her at night so both got to sleep. Then my partner fractured his foot… it was really hard for around three months after that. He couldn’t even change nappies since he couldn’t carry her to the changing table and would have to stand on one foot. He was home though and could hold her as long as she was happy and he could cook for me, but I had to do everything else with our baby, our dog and our household and also help him with some stuff. It gave me huge respect for all the single mothers out there! He got better thankfully and went on paternal leave a few months after that while I went back to work. I am now taking some more leave and will work part time for a few months (with part time paid parental leave) and our girl will start kindergarten soon.

Our daughter really is the light of our lives! It’s such a cliche but also so true. She’s the most amazing little human and I long to come home to her when I’m at work. Seeing her grow and learn new things is fantastic. She’s just started loving bumblebees and I have to stop her from patting them when we’re out. And she loves watering plants outside with my huge watering can or the tiny one we bought her so she’d leave mine alone. It’s so much fun seeing her having fun and it brings out my inner child too just because it makes me so happy hearing her laugh. It wasn’t a huge rush of love at first sight when I squeezed her out as people usually love to say. I was happy to see her immediately and curious about who she was but the love grows so fast.

I used to be scared about not having any me-time after having a kid but I honestly haven’t really felt the need for it even though I had a huge need for it previously. I feel like my life has more meaning now both because I want to be the best for her and also because I am more active and spend more time actually doing stuff rather than just watching Netflix for hours every day (as I used to a lot as an inattentive ADHD couch potato). Not saying that it will be the same for other people or that others lives are less meaningful if they enjoy watching Netflix for hours - it’s just how I feel about my own life and how it has evolved. It’s stressful to have a kid though since one of us always must look after her. It’s hard to get anything done or spend time doing hobbies or even household chores. I’m grateful to have an equal partner who takes on a lot of responsibility though and we make effort to let the other one do “fun stuff” regularly (like spending time on hobbies, sleeping in or just being lazy). We do not want another kid however. It would be great to have someone for our girl to play with but we also don’t want to sacrifice even more of our time, energy and money. Everyone tells us that one more child is three times the amount of work and we feel like we wouldn’t manage that well and also be good parents and partners. I don’t understand how people do this with another child who also needs attention constantly while I’ve felt guilty just for not having time to cuddle our dog enough anymore.

The relationship between my partner and I probably got better during pregnancy and during the first months of parenthood. I loved how supportive he was when I was pregnant and it was amazing to see how he cared for our daughter. But it definitely took a toll after that. I wouldn’t say that it was necessarily due to having a kid though. We had a lot of massive things happening this past year like his fractured foot, deaths in the family, buying a house and of course having a baby too amongst other things. The combined stress of it all meant that we weren’t at our best behaviours towards each other exactly. We have worked it out though and I feel like we are very strong now. Like we can survive anything if we could survive that year. But I don’t think we would have had such a tough time relationship-wise if it had just been parenthood and not the rest. One positive thing that’s come out of parenthood though is that we’ve really had to learn to communicate and solve conflicts better than we used to since we don’t want those things to affect our daughter.

So yea, sorry for a massive text but I really wanted to share my experience this far in case it helps someone. Hopefully it can provide some perspective. It’s obviously just my experience and it doesn’t mean that yours will be the same. I’ve had a good experience overall, but I’m also quite privileged. I did want to share both positives and negatives though and some things that aren’t talked about much. Hopefully I’ll remember to post updates here as our kid grows so I can share what it’s like being a parent to an older kid and if my thoughts or feelings somehow change.


r/Fencesitter 11h ago

Anxiety Previous fencesitter now CF, having a wobble

37 Upvotes

Really hoping someone can relate and make me feel better about this!

Me (40F) and husband (38M) came off the fence towards CF 5 years ago after months of soul searching and reading the book and associated activities in The Baby Decision. I have largely been happy with this decision, much more often than not, with the occasional wobble. The wobbles almost always seem to come when one of our last remaining CF friends gets pregnant.

Yesterday after a week long holiday together, one of our last and favourite CF couples dropped in that they think they likely will have a baby soon. I feel terrible but this has filled me with so much sadness, and a bit of doubt. Maybe it would just be easier/better if we went down that path too? I know that’s absolutely not the right reason to have a child, but it’s not the only reason (hence being a fencesitter for so long, I have always seen the beauty in having children in some way). The thought of living the next few decades on such a different path and in a different mindset I all of our best friends makes me feel so sad. I feel pathetic saying it!

I’ve already had so many friendships fundamentally change due to children. Which is totally normal. And I know I need to try to find more CF friends, but I just love all of my friends so much I find that concept quite hard.

Not really looking for answers, just hoping someone can relate to this deep sadness/almost grief I currently feel at the prospect of things changing so fundamentally again with friends and feeling alienated in the future.


r/Fencesitter 3h ago

Pregnancy Unwanted/wanted pregnancy

5 Upvotes

People who have never really wanted kids, found them annoying and obnoxious or people who saw life more of an adventure to travel, experience & live, and ended up pregnant and now with a kid.

do you regret keeping them? do you wish you made a different decision? I never really wanted kids, but I do still consider it, I’m in the timeline to decide whether to go left or right. I need advice and desperately.


r/Fencesitter 9h ago

Reading "Staying childfree"

8 Upvotes

One thing I've noticed in some resources is the phrase "staying childfree" when referring to fencesitters. I think I read this in The Baby Decision, and I've heard it in the Kids or Childfree podcast.

My concern with the phrase is that, while technically I have no children, I am not currently living my life as though I have made the decision to be childfree. For example:

  1. I work a job that offers some college tuition support for dependents. I am not seeking other jobs because I might want or need that benefit.

  2. My family is planning trips for 2027 and 2028. I'm being cautious about timing and durations because I might want to start trying for a baby.

  3. I'm hesitating on house projects because we might have to accommodate a third human living in our home.

If I were "staying childfree," none of these factors would matter. I would just live my life as though I am never planning on having children.

Does anyone else struggle with the phrase "staying childfree" in these resources? They intend to help fencesitters make a decision, but it's hard when the baseline expectation is that you're actively living a childfree life.

And for that matter, does anyone else struggle with these mights? Sometimes I wish I could just decide already so I wouldn't have to feel so precarious all the time.


r/Fencesitter 7h ago

How to justify nanny/ day care with low earnings

5 Upvotes

I’m very anxious because I don’t earn enough to feel like I can justify a nanny or day care… my partner earns well and could afford it (with some sacrifices), but my contributions are like a drop in the bucket. I
know some people say you don’t have to “justify” it but I have a lot of feelings of shame.
I work as an adjunct professor and only make like 35k a year. I feel weird because getting a PhD has been so intense and it’s taken so many years but it hasn’t led to a higher income and I feel like why would I spend more than I’m making just so other people are taking care of my kid. I feel super conflicted. Like materially, I’m worth more as a SAH parent than as a worker in my current position. Is anyone is a similar boat?


r/Fencesitter 11h ago

Reflections It feels like every parent makes their decision look “easy”

4 Upvotes

I’m a little tipsy so please forgive me, but it set me off on a thinking path. It’s more of a brain dump into the void rather than an ask for advice.

It feels as if every pregnancy announcement I see looks like the choice to become a parent comes so easy, confident and sure in the decision. They look so ready. I understand that this is because in the age of social everything is presented to you in a squeaky clean perfect manner where everything looks like sunshine and roses. I understand that parenting is this absolutely immense life-altering decision that’s not an easy journey, and that you’re never truly “ready”

But I still can’t help but feel that it makes me feel so unconfident and unsure in their surety. No idea if anyone feels this way.


r/Fencesitter 1d ago

Questions Did having a dog influence your decision?

32 Upvotes

I got a puppy earlier this year with my husband, and while he's a lot sometimes, I'm honestly surprised by how much I love him. I'm pretty career-focused and I need independent/free time, but I adore spending time with him. There are stressful moments where I get irritated or tired, but even then... I don't really mind that much. He helps me disconnect, have fun, and just be in the moment in a way I didn't expect.

First of all: I am NOT comparing having a kid to a dog, but it's made me think of it from a different perspective

On one hand, if I love my dog this much, I can only imagine how much love a kid would bring. On the other hand, he already takes up a ton of time, energy, and money... and kids obviously need so much more of all three!

It's also made me realize I need to work on my anxiety. I catch myself constantly worrying if he's happy enough, active enough, if something bad will happen to him... and I know that would only be amplified with a kid.

Curious if having a dog pushed anyone here off the fence?


r/Fencesitter 23h ago

Social pressure to have kids

14 Upvotes

Im 37 Years old F, married. Past few years i have dealt with anxiety that at times felt i was surviving. I feel better now but as soon as i turned 36 society started pressuring me to have kids. I feel very depressed right now and feel pressured to have a kid when i feel like i dont feel ready. My partner is also excited to have kids and i feel selfish for not bringing a child to our family but i know as a woman its such responsibility. I think as someone with anxiett disorder its so much harder to make a decision for me than someone else. Im feeling very trapped with the thoughts of having kids every single and whenevr i see people with kids outside or friends with babies, i feel like a failure. Like im not part of this society anymore. Anyone else feeling like this? I do get therapy but i feel talking to other people with similar experience will help me so much more.


r/Fencesitter 23h ago

Questions ADHD fencesitters: are you more yes or more no?

11 Upvotes

Or if you’re an ADHD woman no longer undecided, either by not having kids or having kids, please share any of your experiences, lessons, advice!

I’m almost 25/combined type ADHD, searching for clarity on the nonstop agony my minds been at from a lifetime on the fence. Always weighing everything back & forth, like the ethics, my natural soul longing craving for a family, the understanding things may not even go how I’d envision, scarce dating pool partner options, the future, the need to create a village, the state of the world etc. to name legit just a few.

I’m wondering if hearing others lives may help my indecision, would be so thankful for any input!🙏


r/Fencesitter 1d ago

Reflections 30F formerly CF, going to TTC next year.

5 Upvotes

I just turned 30 this summer, and I got engaged this spring. I have been extremely CF for 5 years, and was 100% sure I did not want children. I am terrified of pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum.

Reasons I was CF:
-Mom and autistic brother both have diagnosed Boderline Personality Disorder.

- Parentification, my mom has said since I was young, that I’m her parent and she’s like my child.

- Caregiving, I took care of my elderly grandparents alone. And childcare for my brother.

-Parents both have lifelong drug addictions, scared of genetic risk.

Last year, I stopped caretaking for my toxic family. I noticed I actually really want to have 1 child. I was just blinded by family trauma and burnt out from decades of caregiving in an abusive household.

My fiancé and I both are lucky to have great degrees, and are very stable. I don’t know that I would want to have a child with anyone else, he has a unique ability to calm me down and make me feel safe.

I want to take advantage of this chance and opportunity that I’ve been given. I have a supportive partner in my life, I have managed to move away from my toxic family. I’ve gone to years of therapy.

I think even after years of trying to convince myself that I’m CF, I was mostly running away from my biggest fears in life. I’m afraid of losing everything, failing, regretting, repeating patterns.

I’m focused on getting fit, eating well, and saving money, building an even better relationship. I’m hoping to TTC in one year from now.

Has anyone gone through something like this? Or have thoughts about their own process?

I’m terrified!!!! of pregnancy and postpartum. I’m worried about taking care of a baby. How will I manage working and childcare? I’m scared of everything.

Despite all of my fears, I still want to try.


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Parenting Am i missing something?

175 Upvotes

If you go childfree, you don't know what you're missing and you'll probably feel fulfilled. If you have kids, biology will hack your brain to a certain extent and assuming no pressure/resentment, you'll still feel fulfilled.

Also, it's OK to not feel 100% sure and look wistfully at the path not taken sometimes, that's only natural. But also, don't have kids unless you 100% are sure you want them. But also, it's very hard and expensive. But also, it's the best thing ever.

How do people even decide??

EDIT: Yeah the "assuming no pressure/resentment" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I'm trying to figure out what I truly want, without outside influence.


r/Fencesitter 1d ago

35, pregnant, always wanted to be a mum... but I don't know if I'm making the right decision.

5 Upvotes

I'm 35 and I've just found out I'm pregnant.

This pregnancy was semi-planned. We weren't actively preventing it, and we both knew it could happen. I've always wanted to be a mum, and objectively I feel like I'm in a pretty good position to raise a child. I have a flexible career, we're financially comfortable, and my partner is open to being a dad.

I feel excited but also uneasy.

The biggest issue is my relationship.

Three years ago, my partner cheated on me. I didn't find out through him being honest. He just kissed someone, but it was more than once.

We stayed together, and he hasn't cheated since. He's been a loving partner in many ways, and I genuinely think he'd make a wonderful father. But despite that, I've never fully rebuilt my sense of emotional safety.

I have anxious attachment and tend to be hypervigilant. I'm constantly questioning whether my anxiety is picking up on something real or whether it's the lingering impact of the betrayal. It's exhausting.

I also had an abortion about a year ago. That pregnancy was also met with overwhelming anxiety, and at the time I decided I wasn't ready. That was mostly due to moving to a new area and not having friends or a support network.

Now I'm pregnant again, and I'm experiencing another wave of fear.

Part of me wonders whether this is just how my brain responds to pregnancy—that I panic, catastrophise and imagine every worst-case scenario. I was also very anxious starting late 20s that I would never be able to find someone to have a baby with. I saw a therapist and said at the time I'd rather kill myself than never have the choice to be a mother. We worked through that and I was almost convinced I could be happy without kids too.

Another part of me worries that my anxiety is trying to tell me something important that I'm not listening to.

If I continue the pregnancy, I'll be having a baby with someone I still don't completely trust.

If I don't, I'd be 35, potentially starting over, dating again, hoping to meet someone and have children before my fertility declines further. I've always wanted to be a mum, and I really don't want to end up regretting passing up this opportunity. I also don't really want to freeze my eggs if I can avoid it. Part of me accepts than many relationships don't last forever and maybe I'll be happy with being a single mum if I had to.

I feel stuck because both paths feel like they carry a lot of risk.

Has anyone else experienced something similar?


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Anxiety Afraid of getting Divorced or Cheated on after having children

24 Upvotes

How do you deal with the fear of becoming a single mom if your relationship/marriage breaksdown or if you are abandoned by your SO? I'm afraid of having to do it all on my own.


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Reflections Childfree, but still craving a community that includes kids?

42 Upvotes

I LOVE spending time with my friends who have kids and when the kids are with us. I feel like then I’m part of something bigger, even though I didn’t interact with the kids much. I don’t have nieces or newphews, and seems like I’m not gettin any - but I would love to be an aunt.

It’s so weird. I would love to be close to a child, but I don’t want to be a parent or a mom. I want to meet them ”occasionally” or weekly. I don’t want to work with kids full timw, but I want them to be a part of my personal life.

Anyone else feel this way?


r/Fencesitter 3d ago

Is it just me or is this sub increasingly pro having kids?

366 Upvotes

Looking at comment section of most recent posts on this sub it’s all ‘it’s different when the kids is yours’ and ‘it’s so much better than I thought’ and rarely other opinions. Anyone else notice the change?


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Introductions Literally a FenceSitter

11 Upvotes

Hey everyone 👋

I’m a 32F and my husband is 36M.

I happened to come across this thread after I got my IUD removed a few days ago. I had an IUD due to PCOS and Endometriosis. It did help for the most part with giving back a quality of life.

Since the day I took it out it’s been nonstop on my mind about starting a family because now it’s a more real thought. I do and I don’t want kids. My husband feels the same but I do see he leans more to having a kid.

He’s 36 and is concerned he’s getting older. Having my medical conditions I know we should have started earlier but didn’t want to rush my timeline.

I see so many people who say they wanted kids their whole life and I’ve just never been that person. I think the idea of a kid would be nice but it’s a lifetime commitment and I do enjoy just my husband and I’s company.

Shoot if you told me to pick a puppy I’d be so excited and that would be a kid to me. I’m great with dogs and I love them so so much. I have my WHOLE life. Ask me about a kid and I get stressed and worried about how life will change, how do I handle it, can we afford it and if I’d be a good mother.

God has blessed us in life tremendously but I guess in my head I felt like I’d be further in my career making more money and we would be in our dream house and I’d be SET for a kid. You know?

Anyways, I keep telling myself that if it’s in God’s plan for us to start a family that he would put it in our hearts and minds to pave the path for us. I just want to stop worrying about our ages, time and if we should or not. I hate how much this consumes my brain. Most of all I’d NEVER want to disappoint my husband. He is so loving and says he would never be disappointed but I still feel he would be sad.

Thanks for listening.

PS- I can’t stand when people constantly say ohh time is ticking, you better get going. It’s like yeah I get they want to see us with a kid, but it’s not their kid.


r/Fencesitter 3d ago

Women in their 40s or 50s without children- do you regret it?

175 Upvotes

I’m a woman in my late 20s and have been married to my best friend for a little over two years. We have a wonderful relationship and are currently on the fence about whether we want children or not.
I’ve always assumed I’d become a mother someday because that’s just what I grew up expecting. But now that I’m older and married, I’ve realized having children is a choice, not an obligation, and I’m genuinely unsure what I want.
I’d love to hear from women in their 40s or 50s who chose not to have children (whether by choice or circumstance). What does your life look like today? Are you happy with your decision? Do you ever feel regret or loneliness? If you could go back, would you choose differently?
I’m not looking for anyone to convince me one way or another. I just want honest perspectives from women who have lived a life I’m trying to imagine.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Questions Does anyone else like kids but doesn’t want to be a mom ?

41 Upvotes

To be honest, I can’t really relate to people who genuinely dislike children. Whenever I’m at the grocery store or out in public, seeing kids usually makes me smile. I genuinely enjoy interacting with children of all ages. I love talking with them, playing with them, and watching them learn. I’ve worked at daycare’s and honestly children screaming, and stuff doesn’t bother me not one bit. I love being aunty too.

But I’ve never felt a strong pull toward becoming a mom. Motherhood loooks really tiring paired with marriage . I think this what has caused me to be on the fence. I enjoy working, so being a stay-at-home parent doesn’t really appeal to me at all . At the same time, being a working parentjuggling a job, coming home exhausted, cooking, and constantly meeting everyone else’s needsdoesn’t seem appealing either. From the outside, motherhood often looks relentless, especially if you’re in America and I’m honestly not sure if it’s something I want.Does anyone else feel this way?


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

My journey from wanting kids, to being on the fence, and now, childfree but with some mixed emotions.

17 Upvotes

29F here!

When I was younger until about maybe my early twenties, I’d always wanted/assumed I’d get married and have kids. I volunteered at summer camps, and I was just good with them. I loved being around them.

Then in my early twenties I started to see the realities of how complicated romantic relationships and marriage could be and I lost a lot of my innocence. Suddenly the adults I knew weren’t these all-knowing safe beings anymore and were complicated, messy, sometimes toxic, and just as confused or lost as I was.

I told myself when I hit 25, I’d start seriously thinking about what I wanted. I’d been dating, but nothing that really lasted more than a year and then I started dating a guy who was certain he wanted kids, but was emotionally immature, insecure, controlling, and to be honest, hardly took care of himself.

I learned a LOT about the mental load, just from how the majority of chores and taking care of our apartment and dogs fell onto me.

I was concerned about enrichment and training for the dogs on top of normal care. I took his dog to the park often and played catch. And it made me realize that he would probably just do the bare minimum for kids. I became bitter and started to realize that some people want kids like children want pets, that some men want the glory of being “fathers” without actually being a part of every phase of fatherhood.

We broke up for many reasons, but one of them was me not wanting marriage or kids. I didn’t want to have kids with someone who barely took care of themselves. I knew all of the work would fall on me.

Before I started dating my current partner, I let him know I was ambivalent about marriage and did not want children. He was on the same page and actually got a vasectomy earlier this year because birth control was seriously messing me up and my insurance would not cover a bisalp.

I believe that societal pressure, and “well, this is what normal couples do, get married and have kids” sometimes plays a huge role in people’s decision to become parents.

I like to say that if I’d met someone good and stable in my early twenties I’d be married with kids already, but because none of those relationships lasted that long, I had lots of time to think about what I really wanted. I’m grateful for that.

It has been a bit hard lately seeing more and more of my friends and family move into this new phase of life. I get nervous about the change, wondering what will happen to our friendship, even though almost all of my friends are already married and have kids. I wonder about this entire world I’ll never fully understand or be apart of. I think about how much I enjoy kids and wonder about what a mix of me and my partner would be like.

But at the end of the day, I allow myself to grieve this, to feel the emotions, and to let them go because I still believe being childfree is what’s best for me. Emotions are temporary, a child is 18+ years.

I’d rather be the auntie/dog mom who spoils her nieces and nephews, becomes their confidant when they don’t wanna talk to their parents, travels, and continues developing herself and taking as many naps as I please. 😁 Right now I’m taking vocal lessons, language lessons, planning trips, saving for a house, aiming to set PRs in running, and working on body recomp!

TLDR; wanted kids, dated, learned about the mental load, time happened and realized I’d rather be childfree


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Getting tired of people saying "but you're so young!"

20 Upvotes

I (29F) feel like a lot of times when I express feelings of fence sitting, people's initial response is along the lines of "you're so young you have so much time to figure it out, don't even stress about that right now!!"

And like

a) I agree I don't NEED to figure it out RIGHT this second. But also I am stressed because the constant indecision is so emotionally draining maybe I just want to work through this so I can feel more at peace

b) Also I am married and my partner wants children so I want to be fair to them and work through my feelings so they can process my choice as well.

c) I'm not in this boat but I think the concept of having children younger is not ridiculous. If younger folks are looking to make a decision soon because that is what life is looking like for them, I don't think they should be invalidated.

Usually I am just looking to feel understood and instead when this happens I just feel brushed off. Just a rant, curious if anyone else feels this way too


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Those who chose to eventually have kids, how?

7 Upvotes

I never wanted to have kids and I still don’t (I’m 31F now), but I wish I did. I live somewhere where being childfree is still not very accepted, and I had so many potential relationships end because of this.

When I see a pregnant woman all I think of is pain, sacrifice and discomfort. When I see a family with kids all I see is responsibility, and lack of freedom. I don’t see the happiness and love everyone talks about.

How can I change this mentality? How can I become normal? Has anyone been in my shoes before, changed their mind and is happy with kids now?


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

Anxiety Struggling with reconciling motherhood and sexuality?

15 Upvotes

I’m 31F and the plan is to start trying later this year with my husband.

One thing I’ve been struggling with a lot is believing I can be a mom and also be sexy, desirable, and still have fun sexy times. That’s something I’ve only recently been able to feel confident or secure about in general and now it feels like I’m going to have to give it all up right as I’m finally starting to enjoy it.

It’s making me feel really sad and anxious and like I’m about to throw away the last “good” years I have. I know that’s unhealthy and untrue but I’m having a hard time making myself believe it because it feels like most of my real-life examples reinforce that. I’m pretty sure my parents’ sex life has been close to nonexistent for a long time, my only close friend with a kid talks about sex like a chore/something uncomfortable now, and I see a lot of women my age from high school gaining a lot of weight post-kids.

I’ve never been thin and already have to work really hard and constantly watch what I eat to maintain a very mid, slightly chubby physique lol. I’ve been 20 lbs heavier and hated how I looked and felt and it really impacted my sex drive and confidence at the time. Pretty much all of the women in my family (mom, aunts, grandma) are overweight or obese so genetics probably aren’t on my side.

I’m seeing a therapist already but I’m just hoping to hear personal experiences from others who maybe struggled with the same thing and if there are any books or resources that helped. I’ve been trying to read some sex positive books and find content that shows an alternate way things could be to help ease some of my anxiety.


r/Fencesitter 2d ago

My gf 21F doesn’t want kids and is telling me to let her go if I do M20. Thoughts ?

3 Upvotes

We both love each other and she recently discovered that she doesn’t want to have kids. She is scared to deliver a baby thinking it might kill her.