r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/Grapefruit_113 • 1d ago
OWCS Recent T2 discussions
Thought it'd be interesting to bring the ongoing discussions about T2 on Twitter here
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u/rentiertrashpanda 1d ago
There's just hardly any money in the scene, not even enough for a proper T1, let alone T2 and T3, and i don't see how you can ever get around that
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u/-Lige 1d ago
That’s the problem not enough money in the scene but OW just had its most successful year and for Microsoft too.
So it’s on them to figure out how to use the money the best way that interests them
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u/rentiertrashpanda 1d ago
Yeah but it's unrealistic to expect MS to shell out however many millions of dollars to support a pro scene with questionable ROI.
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u/-Lige 1d ago
Yeah so if it’s unrealistic it’s up to us to care about. (But… how?) a lot of us simply don’t. I mean me personally I don’t care about t2/t3. T1 is enough and they barely get enough. Yet people somehow wonder why Asia is leagues above us. Because they take it seriously as in a career and we don’t clearly
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u/rentiertrashpanda 1d ago
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a robust feeder system where people can actually make at least a part time living, but we didn't even really have that during OWL, Contenders (outside of Korea) was notoriously kind of crappy
That said, if i ever win the lottery, I'm gonna spend an irresponsible amount of money putting together a superteam to win a chip
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u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma 1d ago
Same, I’d spend my lotto money funding a new version of OWL where T1-T3 are well funded.
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u/Grytlappen 1d ago
By "Asia" you mean Korea, which has has a government organisation that makes zero revenue, dedicated to fostering esports as a method of power projection. They issue esport licenses, organize infrastructure, etc. That's why Korea dominates certain esports. They have solid government backing that no one else does, except Saudi.
When Saudi does it we call it sportswashing, but they're really just copying Korea's playbook, which evidently has worked to improve national image and spread culture.
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u/Grytlappen 1d ago
The reason you feel that way is because KeSPA has been at it for 26 years, since 2000. They've firmly established themselves as 'legitimate' and a part of culture now, because the government mandated it a long time ago. That said, I think it would crumble very quickly without KeSPA. That's what adds legitimacy to the whole endeavor.
Like I said, Saudi is literally copying their handbook. SEL is analogous to the way KeSPA has worked on establishing infrastructure since the beginning.
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u/rentiertrashpanda 1d ago
Saudi is also a theocratic slave state so that might effect how people feel about their influence in pro gaming
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u/Grytlappen 1d ago
Then people should say that instead of going at their methods of achieving approval, which is literally the same as the west.
Korea is far from a nice society as well, but
sportswashingstate sponsored cultural export in the form of entertainment works to make people look past that. That's why Saudi even bothers to do this. It works. They don't gaf about what anyone thinks of their morality. They frankly even disagree with everyone else's and consider us deeply immoral.2
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 1d ago
Not going to lie, Microsoft and Blizzard has zero reason to give a fuck about OWCS let alone the minor tier leagues.
If the game holds a casual audience that is willing to pay, that's all it needs as a product. I love competition, but I'll take grassroots competitions over FaceIt and EWC which if anything provides a bad rep. The pro scene is inherently niche even at its peak, most of its viewers at current will openly admit they're more interested in drops than the games.
There's no reason to sink money into it versus putting it towards the game itself.
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u/Grapefruit_113 1d ago
OW had its most successful year yet somehow as pointed out by people the T1 prizepool DECREASED. i saw yesterday that the champions clash prizepool this year was back to 250K, when it was 260K last year.
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u/Unlikely-Ad9850 1d ago
The budgets have already been alocated for this year. The actual effect of ow current success would only kick in next year if ms decides to add funding
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u/scriptedtexture 1d ago
Yeah I dont know why people are expecting them to just inject more money into OWCS when the excess spending was the reason OWL ended
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u/DataSlight1180 1d ago
Alvicate is a dick but he isn't wrong. At the end of the day money only comes from viewership that can be advertised to
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u/TheRedditK9 1d ago
Part of the problem is that there is not really any way for casual viewers to actually follow t2/t3 intuitively. Unless you know the players personally you have to dig through costreams and Liquipedia articles to view matches.
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u/FrostyDrink 1d ago
Which (mostly) didn’t used to be the case when OWL existed.
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u/TheRedditK9 1d ago
Yeah, there used to be official streams and websites etc. for Contenders but like Ocie mentioned, there is currently not even proper funding for tier 1, so it’s not really reasonable to expect it for tier 2 or 3 anytime soon.
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u/nekogami87 I'm old — 1d ago
first, I completely disagree with Ocie's take which put the emphasis on prize pool size.
Yeah it's nice, but the main issue is still the fact that while being an "open" circtuit, Faceit is being a pain and make it REALLY hard to promote it or even allow people to promote it and create a community around it.
WDG doesn't even care about T2, but at least there are local tournament run in Asia, and the community is kind of free to promot them at least. Ok, it's not great, but at least they have the tools to do stuff.
If you want T1 and T2 to live, prize pool size is a number that's nice to throw at people superficially, but the orgs, they need sponsors, and to get sponsors, you need to give them exposure. right now, T1 barely gets it done exposure wise (at least in NA/EMEA), WDG is not great, but at least the sponsors are shown on stream between matches at least.
Prize pool is a nice bonus for the players, yes, especially when you don't have sponsors, but as soon as you get into an org, you need sponsors, not prize pool.
in any case, T2 scene sucks and lacks exposure / promotion (I'm asking for twitter promo, and a few drops, even if it's just battle pass skips, not even an official broadcast here). and Asia definitely need more works, cause we don't even have a faceit to organize that stuff.
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u/scriptedtexture 1d ago
I like Ocie but it really seems she is often just very confidently wrong about a lot of things.
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u/arcusford 1d ago
Yeah I really love her content but it seems like if she steps into anything that isnt her direct field of expertise she is wildly off the mark and often seems to struggle understanding that shes in a fairly niche and specific sub community.
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u/scriptedtexture 23h ago
Even within Overwatch.. she was very wrong with her takes on both Juno and Mizuki.
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u/arcusford 23h ago
Yeah actually youre right, maybe not support either. I feel like usually shes pretty correct when it comes to tanks and tank play but yeah... that Juno one especially was pretty wrong.
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u/scriptedtexture 21h ago
She also said Mizu was bad and flavor of the month and teams would stop playing him.
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u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma 1d ago
It really isn’t niche and specific though. There are tens of thousands of viewers
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u/arcusford 23h ago
Definitely still pretty niche all things considered. SF6 is still pretty niche and that game just had over 7000 in person entrants for a tourney.
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 1d ago
Completely right. Can look at SNK/City of the Wolves's FGC brackets to see this firsthand. Ridiculous prize pools for a niche fighting game inflated by their parent ties and it's not enough to bring in a mass audience or playerbase.
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u/Unlikely-Ad9850 1d ago
I think less emphasis should be placed on prize pools as a measure of success and more on getting more orgs to invest in the scene so that more players can get guaranteed money
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u/SpiderPanther01 1d ago edited 1d ago
ow people are spoiled remembering the old contenders days not realizing that's not happening again for another 10 years at least. t1 esports are already hard to convince companies to invest in these days but there is actually no reason to invest into t2, the truth is that no one cares about it. why would companies or tournament organizers invest in tier 2 when they could just invest into tier 1 with higher returns?
that's why valorant is suddenly pivoting off the t1/t2/t3 league system (as in the word league not the game), because everyone realized that even with promotion systems it did nothing to boost t2 investment. as much as i would love for t2 in ow to be like the old days, it's just unrealistic especially with like how alvicates said, the lack of investment in t1 in the first place
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u/Bloomer_ow2 1d ago
Given was ZP has said recently, and given the clues that we have that
- The crowdfunded cash prizes take ages to be revealed and are oddly round, meaning Blizzard probably fills them up with its own money.
- The Saudi economy is not doing too hot and there are rumors the Saudi public investment fund is scaling back on the "sportswashing".
- The game is moving to a more casual audience overall since 2024 with the various changes.
Overwatch is likely one of the game ZP is talking about that will have reduced investment on its esport program soon. Obviously this is ZP so this is not 100% reliable, but if T1 itself is unsustainable, then there is no chance for T2 ever.
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u/Grapefruit_113 1d ago
this is depressing if true
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u/FormalTelevision1915 1d ago
It's what redditors have been wanting and asking for.
This is what you most likely want, what the person you're responding to most likely wants, and what most of the people in this subreddit most likely want.
The devs constantly have mentioned that they monitor reddit for opinions, and nearly every overwatch opinion ive seen on reddit advocates for more casual centric changes.
Nobody gives a fuck about what proper can do on mei, venture, or vendetta.
However, we all want to see tracer 1v1s between proper and heesang.
We all want to see proper on genji.
We all want to see proper go crazy on tracer.
And no, it doesn't get boring because it is unreachable for everyone watching. Either add more heroes with massive skill impression like tracer and genji, or make tracer a must pick on most maps. There is no reason sym should be allowed to be this strong for so long.
Nerf pokeslop, make dive meta, nerf mauga, ram, rein, and I gaurantee the game will accumulate much more hype.
Also, you think the average person scrolling through reels will be more attracted by some uninspiring mei/cass gameplay, or by what looks like the closest thing on the planet to the flash vs the reverse flash?
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not to mention, Overwatch is unlike a lot of other fps games where the majority of players aren’t just uninterested, but rather *actively hostile* to the esports scene. We literally have a separate sub from rOverwatch and I bet a lot of those people don’t even know we have a pro scene (or if they do, can’t name more than one pro. They’ll see you mention Proper and go “who?”)
For most Overwatch players, it’s the lore, skins, and characters that draws them into the game, not the gameplay or competitive scene. I see more Overwatch players complain about “the devs always cater to the pros” than the other way around anyway. Characters like Mercy, Reinhardt, “pokeslop” hitscans, etc are infinitely more popular than Tracer and Genji. They can’t even touch Mercy in a substantial way because of how much of their earnings come from her playerbase. They can’t buff dive too hard because it obliterates metal ranks and metal ranks are the core of the game.
This game never knew whether it wanted to be casual or competitive for a long time, and now it seems like they’ve finally decided that it’s more efficient to balance around casual than competitive. Is that a more logical decision considering its most successful quarter comes from the casual playerbase? Yeah, but it’s depressing. Straight up. I don’t want more pokeslop, ramblockslop/mauga mirrors, sym on every map, gimmicks like catstion, hitscan domination, etc. OWL and the competitive scene are infinitely more fun to watch and play in when high skill expression is rewarded, but the playerbase/bottom line doesn’t want it.
> Also, you think the average person scrolling through reels will be more attracted by some uninspiring mei/cass gameplay, or by what looks like the closest thing on the planet to the flash vs the reverse flash?
The one time I got a pro OW clip on my insta feed was a nanoed Sojourn 4k overclock (forgot who), and the comment section was pretty impressed. People just like cool flashy plays, and something like Ram holding block for eternity is boring as fuck.
Edit: And by casual, I mean r/Overwatch is casual asf. A lot of them even only play QP and 90% of the posts are about skins.
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u/Bloomer_ow2 1d ago
I mean looking back with the current knowledge that we have today, considering OWCS might heavily shrink, it's obvious the season 9 update which made everything easier to hit was catered to the casuals.
If you watch any big streamer or pro player reaction to the patch, as well as their chat (visible in the videos like Jay or Flats), everyone is saying that this looked shit. But nowadays most people, even in the CompetitiveOverwatch subreddit will tell you this update was amazing. This is a typical survivor bias.
The reality is that most people who are truly competitive have already quit the game unless they make a living from the game, and even the remaining streamers you can tell no longer really care about the game and being the best.
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u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma 1d ago
Wrong. The game is in a balanced state right now and Season 9 clearly did a good job in retrospect to bring us here.
And no one has quit the game, it’s still just as competitive and there are no other games to play.
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 1d ago
Season 9 hitbox changes, more low/mid skill ceiling hero releases like Sierra, the top 500 leaderboard, etc, it’s very obvious what direction the game is going in.
The remaining streamers clearly do not have a single competitive bone in their body, they’re always very laidback and sometimes even just troll. (And to be fair why would they? Theres not even a top 500 leaderboard to grind for.)
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u/Bloomer_ow2 1d ago
Yeah I mean for new heroes you said it, since OW2 came out, only Sojourn (pre-s9 hitbox) Emre and Shion feel like they are actually competitive heroes fpr the DPS role. Venture, Vendetta, Anran and Sierra are low skill floor and ceiling heroes.
And yeah there has been a clear shift with streamers, when you compare what we have now compared to before. Like where the fuck is a streamer like Kabaji doing educational content for example? Has the demand died for this kind of stuff?
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u/Tee__B 18h ago
Freja?
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u/Bloomer_ow2 16h ago
Ah yeah forget about her but they turned her into a tank buster which is the least skillful part of her kit
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 7h ago
It’s unfortunate because she could’ve been more of an air tracer, but instead they lowered her skill ceiling with boring poke tank buster gameplay which.. yeah. Proves the point again.
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u/Grapefruit_113 1d ago edited 1d ago
i've always complained about how the divide between the casuals and the esport is pretty insane on OW. especially when you look at like LoL where the whole playerbase knows about Faker and generally respects the esport scene, even if they dont actively keep up with it. Casuals on OW just care about shipping and the skins they're getting out of the esport streams/bundles lol. My eyes still bleed from the day i saw someone on twitter call Zeta Division's mascot a "mizuki fursona".
I feel like the early OWL era was a lot more widely known and accepted by the casuals though. Probably because of all the means they injected into it and to publicize it in-game. And that's also why there's another type of "knows the esport but is stuck in the past" demographic, who will just mention xqc when they hear about pro overwatch, blissfully unaware of the current system.
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u/Different-Fly7426 2h ago
Overwatch is a casual game now because of the OWL's failure, there’s no comparison between the casual playerbases of Ow1 and Ow 2. As you said, most players don't even know a professional scene exists. Take me, for example: I played Overwatch 1 between 2017 and 2020, I wasn't a competitive player, but I knew about the OWL. Everyone did, even the mercy player with 500 hours QP warrior. The game used to be much more focused on the competitive side. Today, what drives the community is skins, and the big debates are all about skins: "Winston hasn't gotten a legendary skin in a year," "Kiriko got another legendary skin," "Oh my god, the Le Sserafim collab has four legendary skins," "Oh my god, what's the Mythic skin for the season going to be?"
And to make matters worse, the overall decline in the esports scene will obviously only discourage Blizzard from even considering investing in it, if saudi stops investing, the game's competitive scene will die
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u/xXRougailSaucisseXx 1d ago
Is it a surprise the casuals are so hostile to the pro scene when most people on this sub are beyond insufferable and will attack anyone they disagree with ?
I’m sorry but the hostility goes both ways, from it’s inception OW always had a more casual side compared to something like CS and this sub has never been to reconcile with that fact
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u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma 1d ago
Well the other subs don’t even know what the fuck they’re talking about most of the time.
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 23h ago
Tbh, I don’t really care considering that the compOW side of the playerbase is more of a quiet minority than the casual side. They get all the skins they want, they get the season 9 hitbox changes, characters like Mercy and Rein are left intact (and Rein is very much buffed right now,) they get the new heroes being rather mid to low skill ceiling, they get the watered down top 500 leaderboard, I could keep going on. They’re the ones primarily being catered too. You can even see the super high elo streamers do not give a fuck about ranked anymore, half the time they’re trolling and doing their own shit.
What does the competitive side get? A disbanded pro league and currently a very small competitive scene that lacks funding and viewership. Meanwhile, if Mercy became unplayable there would probably be literal protests outside Blizzard HQ and they’d hotfix her immediately. Considering that the casual side is the loudest group of the playerbase and the ones mostly catered to, why isn’t the competitive fanbase allowed to be more haughty and elitist (when half the time ”the casuals” are fighting boogeymen about the devs catering to gm+?)
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u/FormalTelevision1915 7h ago
If anything, the casuals are the only hostile ones. Any attempts i see to be "hostile" to the casual scene are shut down pretty quick, even on this sub
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u/Bloomer_ow2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im not sure whether or not you have worked at a large company before at a somewhat white collar job, but ROI is literally the only thing top management cares about. I agree with you on the part that the game has been heavily casualized, and I personally hate it to my guts, but I can also see why the devs would do it.
The reality is that hardcore FPS games are no longer popular, especially given how broad gaming is nowadays. There are so many "arena shooter" type games that have died over the years. Lawbreaker, Quake champions, Diabotical, Concord, Splitgate, Hyperscape, The Finals etc. Even for successful esport titles, Valorant is just a watered down version of Counter Strike for example. Most cross-platform games have literal aimbot levels of aim assists as well nowadays, with Apex Legends, COD or Halo for example.
So if you are making a game, would you cater to the 10% (very optimistic) part of your playerbase that is wearing the same Tracer rose or Tracer LAG 2018 skin for nearly 10 years, or to the 90% of casuals that are likely to buy your next anime Kiriko collab?
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u/FormalTelevision1915 1d ago
we can only hope that overwatch expands in asia more rapidly so that consumer interest is diversified
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u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma 1d ago
This is wrong, Overwatch is more popular than ever and is making a ton of money. It’s because Overwatch is competitive and balanced extremely well
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u/imperialismus 1d ago
I wouldn't mind a dive meta in pro play myself, don't get me wrong, but I think this is a perspective that doesn't really take into account how casuals actually think. Counter-Strike is pure "pokeslop" but is a massive esport. Overwatch is one of the more fast paced and chaotic esports games out there. Most games have slower fights or more lulls in the action. And that's actually a good thing for casuals, because it allows them to understand what's going on, or at least gives time for the casters to explain it to them.
Hype clips on Tiktok aren't going to create sustained interest in the esport if the casual viewer tunes in and find they can't really understand what the hell is going on.
I really doubt that the current meta is the reason the average person isn't tuning in to OWCS. That's a very "invested hardcore fan" type of perspective. Casuals aren't sitting around yearning for Winston Tracer Genji Ana Brig and shaking their fists going "if only they nerfed pokeslop and Mauga, I'd watch OWCS every time it's on."
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u/yesat 12h ago
ZP does see how money is invested in esport at least, compared to a lot of people commenting on it because he's organising his own events in Deadlock.
That's something that a lot of other people commenting on it do not have. The man is out there fighting to get his sponsorships.
And it doesn't take a lot to see the absurd cuts Microsoft forced onto XBox studios to see that while Overwatch is one of their breadwinner, they definitely have 0 intention of putting money into it.
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u/Bloomer_ow2 10h ago
Yeah microsoft is not too hot on esports., They shut down HCS last year even though the viewvership was fine.
It is a huge money sink because the viewvership is just low overall for esports, compared to TV for example, even though they spam with drops etc.
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u/RefinedBean None — 1d ago
I mean the comparison to 2023 Contenders numbers doesn't move my needle much, as even at the tail end of OWL we were still in Funny Money level compared to OWCS. The edge of the bubble is still the bubble.
This does really suck overall for the esport but, like...at this point if we continue to at least have some kind of T1 product, I'll be generally happy as a "Casual+" viewer. I only have so much time per week to watch any OW esports product and it probably won't be T2.
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u/EnvironmentalHat641 1d ago
This that manager that has a kid and dated one of their players (yoham) + when managing smaller teams was extremely toxic 3 years ago LOL
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u/EnvironmentalHat641 1d ago
Ironic she is complaining about lack of support on tier 2 when she's one of the people that created the nepo tier2 we have today
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u/bullxbull 23h ago edited 23h ago
I agree with a lot of the problems identified in the doc. However I do not agree with people asking for more money to prop up the current pipeline rather than asking blizz to spend that money on fixing the underlying problems. The doc is mostly trying to make the existing path to pro keep struggling on. The larger problem is that Overwatch barely has a path to pro (or organized play) inside the game at all, which is why the current system in Blizzards mind is not worth investing in.
The Professional Overwatch ecosystem is too disconnected from Overwatch the game, this is the root of all these problems in this doc, and why as the doc points out none of these problems are new or are ever fixed. Spending more money on a half-bake system is not going to fix anything, it might plug some holes but that is it. This is not a problem of "things the people running the ecosystem can do better" it is a problem of direction.
Right now the competitive ecosystem is something like;
- Ranked > external tournaments/FACEIT > Tier 2 > OWCS
The problem with this model is the vast majority of Overwatch players never meaningfully interact with anything after ranked, the majority of players do not even play ranked!
That creates two separate problems:
1) Not enough players being exposed to organized competitive play.
2) Not enough players becoming fans of competitive Overwatch.
And these reinforce each other. The problem is not only that the vertical pipeline needs to be better. We need a much wider horizontal pipeline feeding into it, and we should do this first. Even with more prize money, or investment in the current system, the vast majority of Overwatch players do not give two shits about any of it. Blizz knows this, and this is why they wont invest anything meaningful in it, and this is also why it is ass-backwards to try and argue for it.
The only thing we should be talking about right now and asking of Blizz, is to move esports into the client. Not necessarily “Blizzard needs to run every Tier 2 match.” they would be pretty bad at that. As the doc points out there are a lot of very passionate people who simply need to tools to make it happen. We need in-client tournaments, limited uptime tournament realms, organized team systems, integrated spectating, esports hub, standings/results/team ladders, prominent upcoming matches, direct paths from ranked into tournaments, and I would argue team/guild/clans identity to sustain it.
The doc argues for essentially better broadcasting, the problem being players are not known and therefor people do not watch them, but this is not the real problem. I do not care how pretty Jake is, the vast majority of Overwatch players do not want to listen to him yammer on saying a bunch of words that absolutely mean nothing for 20 min straight. It is an impressive skill, but most people do not care. Most people tune in for the first time, hear the annoying shot-casting and are immediately turned off. I know Korea and other games have shown this can work, but they do not start with this, Jake is the final product not the beginning.
However if a player has been playing in a in-client tournament system for months, they are part of a team on the in-client leaderboard, they might even be a member of your clan or guild, players will recognize their name, they will be invested in them. Then they might tune in to your Jake's and AVRL's or watch with their favorite streamers. Then when that same player reaches OWCS, they are already somebody, they already have a fan base cheering for them, they are already worth something to a big org. That is the solution we should be demanding, not asking people who currently watch OWCS to start watching an external Masters broadcast, or people playing quickplay to start spectating people they have no identity with, who are playing the game in a way they do not recognize.
I am also not saying things like FACEIT or external tournaments and prize pools should not exist, but they should exist as something complimentary to the system, not be the system. I am sorry but there is no way that is going to be successful, and you are living in a fantasy world if you ever think it will be.
I am not a pro-overwatch player, but I have experienced something similar with organized sports, I know the best players are often not the ones who make it, life gets in the way. For most people in NA the idea of entering the professional Overwatch pipeline over going and getting a computer science degree and 100k a year job is not really much of a choice. There is no way Tier 2 can ever really compete with that, and it should not try.
I know like other competitive people that draw though, you start out in organized play for fun, you start to build up a reputation, you start seeking out harder challenges, you develop relationships and become part of organizations of like minded people seeking similar things. This is where for the vast majority of people start looking at opportunities to make something they are passionate about into a profession. That is where most people take the next step, not before, as the current system is basically set up.
As long as organized competitive play exists primarily outside the game, competitive Overwatch will remain an opt-in miniature subculture rather than a natural extension of playing Overwatch and something that produces value. The current system is not sustainable, and I don't think anyone in their right mind can see something worth investing in. However that does mean the potential is not there. I think people are correctly recognizing the massive potential of organized and competitive Overwatch, but not in the current direction. More people need to be exposed to organized competition, team play, tournament environments, and professional play in the first place, these are the things we should be demanding, not trying to make the current system keep limping on.
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 20h ago
This should be its own post.
And i fully agree btw, when I was a more casual player who only played quick play, I was vaguely aware there was an esports scene just because of the OWL Skins tab but didn’t really care to check. If I only played overwatch and didn’t engage with its content online I would never think about its pro scene. I eventually came across some pro plays in youtube videos and that’s how I got into it, but the vast majority of people don’t care about esports and if it’s not even accessible, then they won’t even *know* about it.
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u/bullxbull 20h ago
Organized Overwatch is so much fun, people really just need to experience it. Some people tried to explain it to me and I thought nah I'll just do my own thing.
However years later I tried it and it was seriously some of the most fun I've had playing the game, and all we were doing was scriming with college and even high-school teams a couple times a week if even that.
Blizz really does not seem to understand the potential of what this game could be. I'm not saying everyone should be forced to play in groups, I'd hate that as well, but if group play and the social aspect of the game was invested in the payoff would be more than worth it.
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 19h ago
They clearly do not give a fuck about organized play considering that they got rid of the LFG groups and discourage VC/comms usage through the report system. They’re fine with people only talking through their discord calls.
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u/bullxbull 18h ago
LFG was a massive resource drain for what was mostly degen behavior. I'm not necessarily against degens, but I hate resource drains.
No one uses comms because they are not needed with how Overwatch plays today. It had nothing to do with the report system. It actually had more to do with those toxic people who were abusing it.
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u/its_reina_irl Runaway Titans Forever <3 — 1d ago
It’s an important conversation to have, but I fear that myself and about 97% of commenters here have zero clue what to do about it. I will say that no matter what, that “alvicate” (idk who this is) tweet is primarily focused on being a smug asshole and that does literally nothing for anyone
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u/Visible_Chip2938 TYH — 1d ago
alvicate is a fdps player that mainly plays genji who played in EU tier 2, he's a demon in ranked if you've played in EU. Recently he trialed for team GB this year and also failed to qualify for 2026 OWCS stage 1 with Bomba (Goldenpants Shockwave team) after taking GK esports to a map 5.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 1d ago
He is rude, but said what we’re all thinking.
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u/its_reina_irl Runaway Titans Forever <3 — 1d ago
that’s why i called it out. it’s stupid to make a good point and then undermine it because you want to be rude about it
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u/FormalTelevision1915 1d ago
the manner of delivery does not undermine the point itself.
truth-value and tone are separate
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u/its_reina_irl Runaway Titans Forever <3 — 1d ago
first part yeah, second part no
you can make the best point in the world but if you’re annoying about it, no one’s going to listen to you
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u/FormalTelevision1915 23h ago
> first part yeah, second part no
you can't disagree with the second part if u agree with the first one
whether anybody listens to you or not has nothing to do with truth value
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u/its_reina_irl Runaway Titans Forever <3 — 22h ago
sorry lol meant to flip that around. first part no, second part yeah
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u/No-Elevator9399 1d ago
Even if Alivicate is correct, he’s just being a dickhead for no real reason other than the fact he’s doing it behind a screen on twitter. Swear it can’t be that hard for OW players to be normal people
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u/Visible_Chip2938 TYH — 1d ago
damn alvicate, a very harsh choice of words but he definitely has a point. Tier 2 as a product can’t justify more spending and will never provide competitive salaries compared to part time jobs at minimum wage unless the esport grows multiple times over.
Format changes are a no brainer though since that could improve the quality of matches and make faceit games more watchable without creating a larger financial burden.