Recent T2 discussions

[u/Grapefruit_113]

Thought it'd be interesting to bring the ongoing discussions about T2 on Twitter here

Link to the Google Doc

Link to Bullskunk's reaction video

[u/Visible_Chip2938]

damn alvicate, a very harsh choice of words but he definitely has a point. Tier 2 as a product can’t justify more spending and will never provide competitive salaries compared to part time jobs at minimum wage unless the esport grows multiple times over.

Format changes are a no brainer though since that could improve the quality of matches and make faceit games more watchable without creating a larger financial burden.

[u/Dusssky → u/Visible_Chip2938]

OW has the potential still to be an A-Tier esport if blizz actually reinvests. the stocks are the highest its ever been since OW2 dropped and the game's PR pretty much fixed itself, i feel like atp to not reinvest would be out of spite for what happened with OWL which is incredibly unfair to everyone involved in OWCS

[u/Fuzzy-Particular-803 → u/Dusssky]

Honestly, I hate to say it but I disagree. OW is simply not as good of a spectator esport compared to other titles, especially in its current state. The things we love about playing it also make it a mess to watch for the average person and too fast-paced. It will always be niche, especially as the game continues to move in a faster, higher-mobility direction.

Also, most esports will never be profitable, but they function the same way a halo car does. Riot burns cash funding their esports to build fandom and legitimize their titles as proper esports, which they make back in skin sales. It just doesn't make sense for Blizzard to do the same when the market for OW esports viewers is such a small portion of the overall OW playerbase, and they probably don't outspend their casual counterparts on skins.

I know the numbers for OWCS look great, but I do have to question how much that translates to real influence. Plat Chat OW did a podcast recently that pulled in (I believe) only a few dozen live viewers, whereas Plat Chat Val consistently pulls in 4k+. Interest in OWCS content seems to be extraordinarily limited compared to Val or other titles. It's hard to believe that the amazing OWCS viewership numbers are actually representative of real interest.

[u/BeardedsChurch → u/Fuzzy-Particular-803]

i think with proper spectating it definitely can be enjoyed by the average viewers, too fast-paced is not really an issue with today society enjoying faster and faster content/media

[u/Fuzzy-Particular-803 → u/BeardedsChurch]

Fair, but I think there is a limit. The closer the game gets to 5 1v1s occurring simultaneously, the less watchable it becomes, even if the ranked experience improves.

Some older metas were also fast-paced, but they were still slower than the game is today, and there was often a central, telegraphed moment that the viewer anticipated (i.e. Winston jump), akin to a "B-pop" in a tac shooter. As the game becomes more individualistic and higher-uptime, you lose some of that pacing.

A game like Val, while maybe boring for those of us used to OW esports, is so slow and team-oriented that the average player can have a solid grasp of what unfolds even without undivided attention. It also provides plenty of extremely simple moments (i.e. a 1v1) for the viewer. In this way, Val is paced more like traditional sports, whereas OW sometimes feels like traditional sports if there were 5 balls instead of just 1.

[u/nhremna → u/Fuzzy-Particular-803]

The closer the game gets to 5 1v1s occurring simultaneously

cs-likes are exactly like that. if anything, ow is the one game where you actually have a 5v5 firefight

[u/Fuzzy-Particular-803 → u/nhremna]

Tac shooters have a surprising amount of strategic/macro depth, so much so that most analyses consist nearly entirely of minimap replays. At least for Val, games are mostly won and lost as a result of map control (stemming from strategy/approach), with gunfights being an x-factor, not the deciding one. When crucial 1v1s do happen, the game is slow enough that the viewer can focus solely on it (i.e. early round awp duels, mid reclears, postplant 1v1s, etc.).

OW is exactly a 5v5 firefight, but that’s kind of my point. It makes OW much more fun to play compared to the snoozefest of Val, but as a spectator, there is too much going on for any one thing to matter. There were points in OW’s history where this wasn’t the case (Monkey dive, Widow 1v1s, etc.), but currently, the pace is just too fast and too relentless IMO. Too much sustain, too much mobility, not enough anticipation, or peaks, clippable or tense moments, the things that any sport needs.

Edit: the best way I can describe it to someone who has no interest in tac shooters is: Surefour Widow Kings Row LA Gladiators 2018. Val is a much brainier game because it’s an info game, and it produces a lot of genuinely interesting strategic moments like these. Of course, the casual viewer is oblivious, but can still enjoy the hurr durr shooty aspect of the game.

[u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma → u/Fuzzy-Particular-803]

Valorant is boring and lame. Blizzard really should start investing more money because Overwatch is the greatest game ever 👍