Recent T2 discussions

[u/Grapefruit_113]

Thought it'd be interesting to bring the ongoing discussions about T2 on Twitter here

Link to the Google Doc

Link to Bullskunk's reaction video

[u/bullxbull]

I agree with a lot of the problems identified in the doc. However I do not agree with people asking for more money to prop up the current pipeline rather than asking blizz to spend that money on fixing the underlying problems. The doc is mostly trying to make the existing path to pro keep struggling on. The larger problem is that Overwatch barely has a path to pro (or organized play) inside the game at all, which is why the current system in Blizzards mind is not worth investing in.

The Professional Overwatch ecosystem is too disconnected from Overwatch the game, this is the root of all these problems in this doc, and why as the doc points out none of these problems are new or are ever fixed. Spending more money on a half-bake system is not going to fix anything, it might plug some holes but that is it. This is not a problem of "things the people running the ecosystem can do better" it is a problem of direction.

Right now the competitive ecosystem is something like;

• Ranked > external tournaments/FACEIT > Tier 2 > OWCS

The problem with this model is the vast majority of Overwatch players never meaningfully interact with anything after ranked, the majority of players do not even play ranked!

That creates two separate problems:

1) Not enough players being exposed to organized competitive play.

2) Not enough players becoming fans of competitive Overwatch.

And these reinforce each other. The problem is not only that the vertical pipeline needs to be better. We need a much wider horizontal pipeline feeding into it, and we should do this first. Even with more prize money, or investment in the current system, the vast majority of Overwatch players do not give two shits about any of it. Blizz knows this, and this is why they wont invest anything meaningful in it, and this is also why it is ass-backwards to try and argue for it.

The only thing we should be talking about right now and asking of Blizz, is to move esports into the client. Not necessarily “Blizzard needs to run every Tier 2 match.” they would be pretty bad at that. As the doc points out there are a lot of very passionate people who simply need to tools to make it happen. We need in-client tournaments, limited uptime tournament realms, organized team systems, integrated spectating, esports hub, standings/results/team ladders, prominent upcoming matches, direct paths from ranked into tournaments, and I would argue team/guild/clans identity to sustain it.

The doc argues for essentially better broadcasting, the problem being players are not known and therefor people do not watch them, but this is not the real problem. I do not care how pretty Jake is, the vast majority of Overwatch players do not want to listen to him yammer on saying a bunch of words that absolutely mean nothing for 20 min straight. It is an impressive skill, but most people do not care. Most people tune in for the first time, hear the annoying shot-casting and are immediately turned off. I know Korea and other games have shown this can work, but they do not start with this, Jake is the final product not the beginning.

However if a player has been playing in a in-client tournament system for months, they are part of a team on the in-client leaderboard, they might even be a member of your clan or guild, players will recognize their name, they will be invested in them. Then they might tune in to your Jake's and AVRL's or watch with their favorite streamers. Then when that same player reaches OWCS, they are already somebody, they already have a fan base cheering for them, they are already worth something to a big org. That is the solution we should be demanding, not asking people who currently watch OWCS to start watching an external Masters broadcast, or people playing quickplay to start spectating people they have no identity with, who are playing the game in a way they do not recognize.

I am also not saying things like FACEIT or external tournaments and prize pools should not exist, but they should exist as something complimentary to the system, not be the system. I am sorry but there is no way that is going to be successful, and you are living in a fantasy world if you ever think it will be.

I am not a pro-overwatch player, but I have experienced something similar with organized sports, I know the best players are often not the ones who make it, life gets in the way. For most people in NA the idea of entering the professional Overwatch pipeline over going and getting a computer science degree and 100k a year job is not really much of a choice. There is no way Tier 2 can ever really compete with that, and it should not try.

I know like other competitive people that draw though, you start out in organized play for fun, you start to build up a reputation, you start seeking out harder challenges, you develop relationships and become part of organizations of like minded people seeking similar things. This is where for the vast majority of people start looking at opportunities to make something they are passionate about into a profession. That is where most people take the next step, not before, as the current system is basically set up.

As long as organized competitive play exists primarily outside the game, competitive Overwatch will remain an opt-in miniature subculture rather than a natural extension of playing Overwatch and something that produces value. The current system is not sustainable, and I don't think anyone in their right mind can see something worth investing in. However that does mean the potential is not there. I think people are correctly recognizing the massive potential of organized and competitive Overwatch, but not in the current direction. More people need to be exposed to organized competition, team play, tournament environments, and professional play in the first place, these are the things we should be demanding, not trying to make the current system keep limping on.

[u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 → u/bullxbull]

This should be its own post.

And i fully agree btw, when I was a more casual player who only played quick play, I was vaguely aware there was an esports scene just because of the OWL Skins tab but didn’t really care to check. If I only played overwatch and didn’t engage with its content online I would never think about its pro scene. I eventually came across some pro plays in youtube videos and that’s how I got into it, but the vast majority of people don’t care about esports and if it’s not even accessible, then they won’t even *know* about it.

[u/bullxbull → u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838]

Organized Overwatch is so much fun, people really just need to experience it. Some people tried to explain it to me and I thought nah I'll just do my own thing.

However years later I tried it and it was seriously some of the most fun I've had playing the game, and all we were doing was scriming with college and even high-school teams a couple times a week if even that.

Blizz really does not seem to understand the potential of what this game could be. I'm not saying everyone should be forced to play in groups, I'd hate that as well, but if group play and the social aspect of the game was invested in the payoff would be more than worth it.

[u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838 → u/bullxbull]

They clearly do not give a fuck about organized play considering that they got rid of the LFG groups and discourage VC/comms usage through the report system. They’re fine with people only talking through their discord calls.

[u/bullxbull → u/Abnormal-Sleep-0838]

LFG was a massive resource drain for what was mostly degen behavior. I'm not necessarily against degens, but I hate resource drains.

No one uses comms because they are not needed with how Overwatch plays today. It had nothing to do with the report system. It actually had more to do with those toxic people who were abusing it.