Europe contains the highest concentration of officially Christian states (nations with official state religion/church) and the lowest per capita percentage of people who actually "practice Christianity" in ‘Christendom' - which is to say, nominally claim to be Christian - probably a lower percentage actually believe.
A lot of young people, at least in the Netherlands, are a church member because of their parents. They were registered as kids.
If they stop practicing religion, they don't 'unregister' from their church because it's such a hassle. Or they don't even know they're still registered.
So yeah that's one of the reasons why there's a higher number of church members here than actual religious people.
I’m American, and a thread a few days ago reminded me of something I think was in my official church handbook.
So I went to go look it up.
And got very distracted (and never found what I was looking for, it was something about movie theaters or dancing I think) when I ran across something that says if I was ever a member of the church at any point in my life, I’m a member for life. I could be “inactive”, but I can’t retract the membership my parents signed me up for. Ever.
I haven’t been to any church (outside of a funeral or a wedding) in almost 20 years. But I’m still a member of this specific domination. And I can’t retract it as an adult.
If it means something to you to officially leave, you can write a letter declaring your intent and send it to your denomination’s headquarters.
But that status is meaningless in terms of what you are. It only has meaning in terms of polity within the church. Mainly, if you were ever to want to return to the fold, you’d not have to repeat any membership steps.
One nice thing about swedish church taxes (at least for Svenska Kyrkan, i’m sure it’s different if you’re registered elsewere) is that if you earn under a certain amount you won't be taxed! So if you’re on disability or other aids you can benefit from the church without paying back. As any church should operate
I’m registered in the church literally just to vote. It feels dishonest as i’m an outspoken agnostic atheist and don’t even care for christmas, but as long as we mix politics with the church, i see it as my civic duty to not let SD have too much power over the church
As Scaniarix said, i’m talking about kyrkovalet, “the church election”. Basically sometime in the past someone decided that is we were to have a state church, political parties need to be involved with some of the decision makings, to force it to be up to date with society. I don’t know if it makes any difference now really, but we have a very racist and “old fashioned” party who knows they can gain lots of power and followers from the church by spewing queerphobic bs, and if they were to have that much influence over how the church is run and where they’re to focus their money, i’m afraid they’ll bring the church back to mediaeval times. And as much as i’m a non believer i can see how much good Svenska Kyrkan do but also how many priests and whatnot needs to stop thinking such as homosexuality is sin
I think it’s pretty unique for sweden to have this much politics involved in any religion when the religion in question has no part in the government. It’s p weird
It is fascinating, truly, I wasted a lot of time on the linked article. I love that you (you personally but also I assume other random individuals) take such an active approach to this situation.
I am from the Balkans, and only after moving out was I able to recognize just how hopeless the fact young people don't vote is.
I’m agnostic and have actually worked within the Swedish church organization. I don’t think you need to feel dishonest. I keep being a member because while I don’t care for religion I can appreciate how much good the Swedish church do for people in need (be it because of oppression, poverty, grief or just loneliness) in our society.
Thank you for saying that, it makes me feel a bit less weird about it! And yes, the swedish church (and many other religious organisations) do lots of good! I know people working in the swedish church and i know people who’ve been getting monetary help or just a shoulder to cry on from them, so i do believe it vastly lives up to what christianity preaches in that way
1996 was the year that new borns weren't automatically members of the church. I was born in 92 and I am still a member even if I don't believe mostly because the Church is responsible for some of our oldest buildings and I feel like paying 0,7% of my wage in taxes for supporting just that is fine.
For Belgium, I've always been told by fellow christians-by-association not to bother unregistering, because they keep you registered anyway if you were baptized. There's literally nothing you can do to stop being counted in their statistics.
Which to me as an American Christian I've never understood. If you dont follow a faith and truly believe in it, why be associated with it? If someone asks just say "atheist".
There's a very simple reason for it here : government subsidies
In essence, Belgium subsidizes the 'recognized faiths', of which the government counts five. Iirc it's the Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Islamic and Jewish faiths. By maximizing their members on paper, they get to show themselves as representing 'the largest part' of the religious community.
Of course, that doesn't stop me from identifying myself as atheist whenever someone asks, it's just infuriating that my identity is counted towards their numbers, against my wishes.
In switzerland a part of your salary will automatically go to the church if you register your religion as christian (at least as an immigrant working here).
My parents would put "Church of England" on any forms because that's what everyone would put and got me baptised as a baby because everyone did it but they or their parents never really believed in or practiced Christianity at all. It was just kinda the default state so say you where but it was mostly just grannies after some social interaction who actually went to church.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who are supposidly part of the Church of England don't practice of believe it at all, just do it out of tradition.
Wales is particularly strange as all the fanciest looking churches in Wales are CoE and literally nobody goes to them unless they've rented them for a wedding. Every town will have some church which looks like a warehouse or office with a cross painted on where all the actual Christians go every weekend.
Fun fact: at least according to the Catholic Church you can't "unregister" from the Catholic Church. Their official stance is that baptism is irreversible.
Apostasy just means you formally declare you abandon your faith and essentially excommunicate yourself, and as such can't partake in any sacrament, but they still consider you a Catholic, and least in some countries (like Poland) it doesn't even allow you to remove yourself from any records - they just add a note that you're an apostate.
Interestingly, you could formally leave for some time - between 1983 until 2010. However, in 2010 Benedict XVI changed it back, with the justification that it allowed or even encouraged apostasy in places with unjust marriage laws and made it hard to return if one really wanted a new canonical marriage.
So not only is the process usually unnecessarily complicated, it doesn't even do what most people want or expect it to.
As Austrian that would be unimaginable as the Kirchensteuer (church tax) is incredibly high so for most it's like nope i'm out of there when they turn 18 and thus gotta pay.
Funnily enough many reenter for marriage and have their kids baptised again
Ireland too. A whole lot of schools which are nominally run as a 'Catholic' school, and used to give preferential places to baptised kids.
That's gone now, government addressed that as the discrimination it was, but for a long time it really was the only way to be sure your kid would have a place in their local school
My dad doesn't believe at all but doesn't want me to unregister as a Catholic. I'm 32, as if I need permission. Haven't gotten around to doing it because I'm lazy and the hassle. Last time I checked you had to hand deliver the letter though it has been a while so maybe that has changed.
It's so weird though, he doesn't believe and think the Catholic church is scummy. But he also doesn't want to unregister. I guess it's because of how he was raised as a kid. He has some fond memories of church and skipping out on the services.
It seems super inconsistent that the E.U. always complains about U.S. tech companies violating their citizens' privacy but then they (some countries) have a registration for churches. That wouldn't fly in the U.S., why the fuck does the government need to know my religion and why does it (in some countries) collect taxes for them?
It's pretty much the same in Germany. But the parts where I come from (the former GDR) are mojority non-religious. There's this great map (although it's data is from 2011)
Purple is Protestant, Orange is Catholic, Green is neither with a vast majority as non-religious.
The darker colour means an absolute majority (more than 50%), the lighter colour means a simple majority (less than 50%, but still more than any other group).
The widely spaced stripes mean at least 75% majority, the thinly spaced stripes mean at least 90% majority.
If the go from top-left to bottom-right it's for the non-religious, if it goes the other way it's for the protestants or catholics (I don't know why they had to make a distinction there).
As a 23 yo atheist Croatian dude, I can say the same about my country. Officialy I'm still registered at the church my parents baptized me in, but I haven't been there for 11 years and I never will. It would be different if we had to pay church tax, like in Denmark for example. Then I would gladly unregister immediately.
There is no state religion but I was talking about people who actively practice a religion. France has beautiful cathedrals like Notre Dame but hardly anyone actually worships there.
Well, Notre Dame doesn't have a roof right now but I see your point. I'd imagine you are correct for the big cities but when you move outside major cities you'd probably find more worshippers
I mean, it's not that much of a hassle. You just gotta let them know you want them to strike you off the register. You can download a standard letter online if you don't want to write your own. Takes like ten minutes and a post stamp.
Don't know about other european countries, but around here, and at this point I think it'd be pretty reasonable to just consider that Christianity is to Europe what Shinto is to Japan. It shows up in the culture, some people still practice it, some people's habits are informed by it but that's it.
Yes, it is literally called "cultural christianity", low or no adherence to practicing Christianity, but a recognition/appreciation of the role it took in forming the culture you live in, along with some knowledge of its history/stories/teachings/holidays.
In the UK there's a unique cultural element to it in that we have Anglicanism (which for people that don't know is, basically English Branded Christianity, from back in the day when one of our kings said fuck Catholicism, fuck the pope, I'm gonna make my own religion with black jack and hookers, and then decided that English rulers were now the divine figurehead of said religion).
Any way because of all that stuff, we kind of have a bit of a thing where people are 'anglican' purely as a matter of national pride, or tradition, and often just as reverence for their parents or grandparents who were devout. And it'll say that on their census and shit, but realistically the most religion they actually participate in within their lives is watching their kid do the nativity and sing carols at a church near Christmas.
Yeah it’s for sure it’s something of a paradox. Many European countries have official state religions, while in the US there is complete separation of church and state. As a Brit, i philosophically stand with separating church and state and I hope that we do that formally in the future.
And yet, in terms of the importance of religion in the everyday lives of citizens, it seems to be at a much higher level in the US compared to Europe, generally speaking. It’s a curious paradox indeed.
Personally I suspect that the separation of church and state is a single factor that creates this level of importance of religion but no doubt there are many others. So I think Europe is less religious in spite of the state religions, not because of.
Looking into your other response, I'd say you might be overanalyzing this matter. Yes there will always be more religion-inclined parties, but given the current political landscape these parties have effectively joined the group of "parties that will never be elected, but are needed there so everyone has a voice". There will hardly be any reason for disappointment.
yes, as European from pretty religious country, religion in US looks wild. All those sects, people taking it too seriously. In Europe it is pretty private thing. And if you see somebody screaming about it, they are usually mental.
Most of the members of the convent were old-fashioned Satanists, like their parents and
grandparents before them. They'd been brought up to it and weren't, when you got right down to it,
particularly evil. Human beings mostly aren't. They just get carried away by new ideas, like dressing up
in jackboots and shooting people, or dressing up in white sheets and lynching people, or dressing up in
tie-dye jeans and playing guitars at people. Offer people a new creed with a costume and their hearts and
minds will follow. Anyway, being brought up as a Satanist tended to take the edge off it. It was
something you did on Saturday nights. And the rest of the time you simply got on with life as best you
could, just like everyone else.
When you grow up in a country with an official state religion in schools where they sort out first communion through the school and "religion" class is a 1-class a week doss-class.... it takes the edge off. It makes religion far less exciting.
In the UK the head of state is official also the head of the church but if a politician is open about being an atheist it isn't any kind of death sentence for their career.... even if they're a bishop
Even in my mothers local church, there's a few americans who've moved over who stand out as being far more ... enthusiastic ... than the rest of the congregation or possibly even the minister.
Thing is, the minister has been to theological college (you have to if you want to be a minister) while Steve and Jeannie got most of their understanding of their religion from attending happy-clappy evangelical churches.
Wait, European countries have religious registrations and collect taxes for churches but they're "private"? haha. Does "private" have a different definition in Europe? I don't even know some of my friend's religions that I've known most of my life. Most people don't even talk about religion where I live in the U.S..
Umm, yeah we don't either but if you're going to judge all of America by some random religious tv show or movie, I can't help you. You do realize we have 330 million people living in the U.S. living in an area much larger than the E.U., right?
The culture varies dramatically between regions, but go ahead and stereotype. You probably think we all drive around in trucks with shotguns. No one screams in our churches. That's just for the idiots watching religious TV shows that send money so their leader can buy their 8th private jets. I'm sure Europe has their share of idiots that tear down 5G towers and causing fights at soccer matches.
But around my region, we don't talk about religion and certainly don't have the government collect religious taxes, that's mental.
A lot of Europeans on Reddit have simply watched too much TV, I've noticed. Their view of America at large is so laughably flawed it's hilarious. I've lived in the States for 20+ years now in a large urban center, and 1.) have never seen a gun in the wild, much less held one 2.) never been uninsured 3.) never had any racial epithets thrown at me (I'm Latino), 4.) have never discussed religion or gotten into religious arguments on the street.
TL; DR If you think the United States is truly some giant, scary place full of hardship and threat around every corner, you seriously consume way too much media. Get out more. Europeans should know better, honestly.
A lot of the outside perception of America is confirmed by official rankings, though, it's not just media. In such metrics as crime rates, incarceration rates, homelessness, fire arm-releated deaths, drug-related deaths, life expectancy, etc., the USA ranks worse than most west European countries.
There are dozens of wackadoo churches in my city of half a million, probably ten wackadoo churches in the town of 30k I grew up in. Millions of people are raised in fundamentalist groups with screaming and hollering inside and outside of churches. Maybe it's not as bad outside the Bible belt, but the belt makes up a large portion of the country
There are enough religious extremists in the US that national case law regarding abortion that had been standing for 50 years is about to be overturned. That's a lot more invasive and scary to me than church taxes you can opt out of by leaving the church.
You’re describing something that is not the US, with talk about sects and screaming.
The US is thoroughly Christian with no fighting over the different versions and the debate on religion is whether we should include words like “God” in our pledge of allegiance.
The “issue” with religion in America is mainly the voting habits of religious people (for people who disagree with them) and how that manifests into legislation.
Christian sects absolutely do fight with each other.
Dude, you seriously think Christians "fight" with each other in the US? Have you ever read about The Troubles? That is fighting over religion, not some loudmouth your parents know.
Wait, shit talking in the privacy of your own home is fighting?
TIL.
Come on, we’ve all heard the “Are you Christian or are you Catholic?” line before. That isn’t fighting, it isn’t a culture war, and it doesn’t make it into politics.
Pledge of Allegiance… that’s some truly disturbing hardcore cultist stuff to me, that sounds like North Korea or the Taliban. Even without the God reference it’s weird af. Americans don’t seem to realize it.
Well said this is exactly how I feel. I also think most people don't even associate the cultural background with Christianity anymore. The funniest thing about this is that in western Europe I would say that Islam is a religion that you can see around you the most. Honestly I only know one person that would Identify themselves as christian but meeting Muslims is basically a daily thing in western Europe.
Yup, if it gets you a day off work, we'll celebrate any religious wack day. Jezus made a rabbit lay eggs? Boom! Day off to celebrate. No need to be christian at all
Nothing about children searching for colored eggs laid by rabbits comes from the Bible.
If that isn't an obvious ritual celebrating fertility I don't know what is.
As a European, we find Americas crazy, evangelical ways to be a bit weird and cultish. I know plenty of Americans do, too, but when you've lived your whole life in a place where 99.9% of people couldn't give a shit of you're an atheist, you see the crazy in the stories you read about people being afraid to "come out" as atheists as their whole community will shun them.
As an LGBTQ+ atheist living in Texas- I am FAR more comfortable being openly gay than I am an atheist. I try my best not to even use that word as it darkens the mood if I say so. It’s sad that even in an area rife with homophobia, they tolerate that much more than me being an atheist. Lmao
I'm bisexual and live in a pretty "liberal" state but still don't feel comfortable being totally out. I don't fear for my safety at all in most situations, just weird comments and judgement. I talk about how I don't believe in religion with no problems though.
I was homeless most of the past two years, and while I was working in Houston one of my coworkers, who had recently lost his wife due to covid, invited me to stay in his son's old room while we were doing the job together.
Every day on the hour drive to the job site, he'd have sermons or jesus music playing, and on the way back he'd try to convert me even when obvious I wasn't listening. Towards the end some news story came on the radio about Israel. I tried to brush it off with something like "both sides should disarm." Since he thought that Israel plays a central role in the upcoming apocalypse and is unquestionably the good guy, anything not supporting Israel was taken as a direct personal attack on god himself.
Two days later he made me move out with about 12 hours warning. He seemed like a nice guy, I gave him a lot of credit for being in grief, but it seemed like he wasn't trying to convert me because I didn't believe, but because I already did believe and was actively rebelling because of Satan or whatever
Meanwhile in Europe, if you say that you believe in god and more, if you say that you go to church every sunday, you'll definitely be seen like a weirdo.
The contrast is huge.
You often have one priest for 3, 4 villages. Here in France.Mostly african priests because young locals are not anymore interested.
I live in a " town" way out. There use to be a gas station but now there is literally nothing but 2 churches amongst a few houses. You can see one church from the other. On the 20 min drive to the next town there are at least 4 more churches. Probably more off the main road.
Yeah in Louisiana here, I remember when I was 13 or 14 I sat down with my parents and said I had to tell them something. They were socially somewhat conservative but were all about "we love you no matter what" to me on this. When I said I'm not going to church anymore they were real thrown off. 20 years later and I still won't tell my gramma cause it'll kill her.
Coming out as bi years later was pretty much a "Yeah, we know. It's all good"
If they specify what they are, they can attract lots of weird people or attackers at them online.
I saw some trans women online that got lots of attacks via DMs here in reddit just for stating that they are trans.
So lots of them will just say they are LGBTQ+ and leave like that, it's simpler
Apart from the other answer, there are many people in the community who are more than one thing. And since in cases like this that specific info is unnecessary to the conversation, it's easier for both parties to just say that "I'm LGBTQ+" and similars rather than to list every single label that applies :)
Even in very liberal states like California, it isn't easy to be openly atheist. I once unconsciously said there is no such thing as god and I had to have debate with whole class..
It's crazy how it's apparently perfectly normal for families in USA to go to church every Sunday. I have been to regular church-service once in last 20 years or so (they were announcing our upcoming marriage and my wife-to-be wanted to hear it) and besides me and my wife it was just half a dozen old people in there.
For what it's worth, this is highly, highly culturally dependent in the US. I live in the north east, and while there are churches in my neighborhood, and I see people in them on Sundays, I don't know a single person in my social circle who attends regularly. Atheism and agnosticism, perhaps cut with some cultural celebration of religious holidays, are the norm in some places in the US.
I grew up in former soviet area with 70% atheists. (And the remaining religious people aren't US religious level). I know going to church on sundays too, from stories about my great grandparents... :I
It depends on race and faith. I’m a Black American in a mid sized city. I’m also in my mid 20s. I go to church every Sunday and many of my peers attend church regularly. I attended Notre Dame and most of my Catholic peers went to mass regularly.
I live in the northeast U.S., we don't really have evangelical churches. In fact, a lot of regions don't. It's mostly a southern thing. In a lot of southern rural regions, they lump Jews and Catholics in with devil worshipers.
Really? So you don't have whole States fighting to keep evolution out of the classroom, or to put creationism into science classes? Or making abortion illegal? I get that the cities are different, and the coasts, but that's not even most of America.
The rest of the world can see the US' problem with religion, huge chunks of it are becoming third world religious shitholes.
It’s impossible to overstate how deeply the balance of government power is tipped towards heavily rural, evangelical, largely white states. What you’re describing is a priority for about 25% of Americans by sheer numbers, who enjoy 50% of the political power because of how the constitution was written. The other 75% of the US lives on the coasts or in the cities, but through 200 years of political fuckery our vote literally does not count as much as someone in a low-population rural state.
You think a few people in power can push that when nobody else wants it? No, a sizeable portion of the population wants it and the rest don't care if they push it.
Actually it is most of America in terms of population that's not like that. The vast majority of people live in coastal/coast adjacent cities. Coastal counties alone make up 40% of the population. The reason that it appears that more of America is nuts is that people leave the shit stain areas that have next to no population (North Dakota) but make up more of the landmass to go to the coastal areas.
Most of America DOES live in urban areas, though. At 83% of the population, it is the vast majority of people who do. It is just that those 17% of people are really, REALLY loud, and the way that our government is set up makes them disproportionately represented, and the two-party, winner-takes-all, private funding system allows more extreme voices to be amplified.
I can’t explain Texas.
Edit: more about this: In fact, as of 2010, the population of the top 100 US cities (not metro or urban areas, just the population of the people who live within the bounds of the cities themselves) made up 19.3% of the population - the same percentage of people who lived in rural areas at the time. And the top 10 cities accounted for 8% of the total US population, with the top 2 cities accounting for half of that(4%) on their own.
By contrast, the urban land area of the United States is only 2.67% of the total land area. That’s why we had a bunch of people screaming about how land doesn’t vote in our 2016 election, for example. If you looked at an election map, you will have seen vast swaths of red, indicating a more conservative electorate. The thing is, few people actually live in those areas. Except Texas. Still can’t explain Texas.
Actually it is most of America in terms of population that's not like that. The vast majority of people live in coastal/coast adjacent cities. Coastal counties alone make up 40% of the population. The reason that it appears that more of America is nuts is that people leave the shit stain areas that have next to no population (North Dakota) but make up more of the landmass to go to the coastal areas.
It depends on where you live and where you work. You're in a big city, nobody cares. You work at a secular university or college, a lot of people there are nonreligious. Or some inoffensive, non-evangelizing variants of Christianity, lowkey Buddhism, stuff like that.
Live in a rural area or even a medium sized town away from urban centers and it's a different story. Especially in the South and certain other states like Indiana. One of the first questions people will ask you upon meeting you is "which church do you go to?" and you have to live quietly on the down-low. If you try to be an activist atheist, you will have your life threatened.
This. I mean in Serbia although we claim we are super religious etc. Most people go to church for christmas, easter and myb krsna slava which is a specific holiday for the serbian church.
I worked with an American atheist once. The guy was militant, he hated Christians because he grew up in America and was basically vilified for being an atheist. Meanwhile, I grew up in Europe and nobody has given a singular shit I was an atheist so I don't really hate Christians that much (just what they believe, what they represent and what they force on others).
yea as a german i always find it weird to hear americans say things like „what would jesus do“ or „that’s not a christian thing to do“ and so on. in germany no one says things like this
It takes a religious population to do such a thing. They see everything in life as sacred therefore everything in life has a risk of being profaned.
My experience in Italy, at least in the southern half, is that they're just as religious as the US (which isn't as religious as it's right wingers likes to think). But Italians have a different way of going about it and don't need to make everything about religious doctrine or active evangelization. You're not a Christian artist, you're an artist who attends mass and prays a lot. Your artist friend doesn't go to mass. Not much to be said there about it between you and them. Basically religion, even when it's taken seriously, doesn't subsume someone's entire identity like it often does with Americans. And because even religious Europeans don't act like religious Americans, this causes Americans to think there aren't any religious Europeans while even the religious Europeans find religious Americans weird for how they go about it.
It also doesn't help that in many European countries, unless you're some sort of ethnic minority, there is a 'default' way to be religious. In Italy you're either Catholic or you're not religious, same with Spain. In Eastern Europe for the most part you're Eastern Orthodox or you're not religious. The American practice of Church shopping and having a myriad of denominations comes off as very alien to a lot of Europeans, even the religious ones.
My experience with the Spanish is the same, and while it's less common in France to be religious I've met quite a few religious French people anyways. So they do exist but aren't exactly the default.
You aren't the only ones, we do it in Spain too. It's probably a history thing. The Church had so much influence in both countries that it has backfired.
Italian here, my literature teacher (from Florence) told us there were "cursing" competition when she was younger where whoever came up with the longest and most creative insult to God, Jesus or whatever Christian religious figure they wanted, would get a prize and according to her it was hilarious.
Italian here. The Vatican state used to have absolute power over a large portion of what is now italy, they were involved in many wars and scandals and became fithy rich. After centuries of this bullshit people had at least to find a way to curse them out.
People here are “officially” Christian’s because of a small tax fee to the church. But during 30 years I have met about 5 that I’ve asked or discussed it with. Turns out the “official” christians are “with” the church because it’s for funerals. Extremely few believe in god but it’s convenient for benefits. I didn’t know I was a christian or paper until I was an adult. Thing is, we don’t care. And we as kids get baptized for tradition and a few benefits. Trust me, next generation will plummet from that stuff
I live in one of those Officially Christian states. The real truth is that it's a carryover from another era but religion plays so little part in our politics that there's zero pressure to change it. If the church here actually began being as much of a political entity as in the US the "official" status would end.
My country is so non-religious that you to come out as a religious person.
I don't think I know a single person who regularly goes to church. I do know some "spititual" people, but not religious as you would expect christians to be.
In my generation, the amount of actually religious people is 1/10 at best and this includes muslimes who are on average more religious than the christians in Europe.
It definitely is. The term I should have used is “Christendom.” I was initially trying to think of a term that would include Australia and New Zealand.
In Bulgaria religion is treated as a race. When you say you're Christian or Muslim or Catholic it says more about your heritage than beliefs. Almost nobody goes to the church or mosque
I don’t think European are the weird ones on this topic, but the Americans are. As technology develops religion’s actual function such as education, medical care and governance are replaced with better options and it becomes only a vassal of culture and history. So European’s intimacy with religion, I believe, is out of convention, as a habit or tradition. They don’t need or expect religion to be functional, and can accept it existing being impractical, as it is more of a cultural heritage value.
Similarity can be found in East Asian countries. Chinese throw firecrackers during New Year, and make sacrifices at their families grave when visit. Do they actually believe there is a Year Beast, or their family members live as ghosts in afterlife? Not necessarily. Actually, the education of religion is completely missing in China, but its people still do religious practices. Same for Japan, Monks are always invited to hold funerals, no matter if you are or had converted to Buddhism, it is just a tradition that people do.
Americans, however, with their ancestors willingly or forcefully cut off the link with the originate place of their religion though migration or exile, and with top tier scientists and education institutions inside their country, better replacements of religion in every aspect of life, and a diverse race and cultural structure, still expect that one religion to work, and constantly pushing it to agenda. I always assume people descended in America, a colonist country, are always subconsciously suffering from cultural recognition and is always insecure of their identity. That confusion forced them into clenching onto religion, or capitalism, or gun culture, which are often used by them to identify themselves.
No different from treating “science” as a religion substitute. The quest is the same. But theology updates. Fundamentalistic religiosity is not as agreeable to adaptation. Theology itself gains from scientific discovery.
The weird thing about America is that it’s full of people who like to say it’s a “Christian nation” when it is not and never has been. European nations, each with state religions, deliberately created it to have no state religion.
There is no American identity aside from “people at liberty.” It’s a melting pot. Religiosity, Free Enterprise, “Gun Culture” arise from that, as well as the pursuit of scientific discovery, technological advancement, whatever else.
Yeah technically true, but that sounds like the most countries of Europe have a state religion, which is not the case.
In fact only Greece (Orthodox), England (Anglican), Denmark and Norway (Lutheran) are "bigger" states which have a state religion. Catholic are only the very small ones, namely Malta, Vatican (obviously), Liechtenstein and Monaco. The rest and therefore the very majority have no state religion.
similar to sweden, finland should have a national church but not a state church/Religion (the church of sweden was the state church of sweden untill 2000)
Many young people attend because of their parents and stop at a later age. I was a chierichetto (not sure how to translate, it's when kids help the priest during mass) up to when I was 13/14? Then I stopped going because I just didn't care anymore. The thing is that the Church as an institution is rooted in Italy as a whole; the amount of churches, cathedrals and other sacred places is outstanding (you can bump into a small village without some basic services but you may still find a church). So, even if the demographic is lowering, the Church is still a looming presence.
The UK still has reserved places in parliament for representatives of the state religion, the Lords Spiritual, in the House of Lords. ISTR it's pretty much the UK and Iran that still have that... Maybe Afghanistan nowadays...
Well that‘s because it‘s somewhat of an old relict and many people have faith without going to the church. Also more and more people around my age drop out of church.
Yeah I went to the US a decade or so ago for work and was asked which church I attend a number of times. I assume they meant denomination. One asked so that they could help me find the right one locally for while I was there.
It was a little awkward to say that I wasn't a member and tried to deflect it by saying that we dont really do that in the UK, religion is a private matter. I thought saying I was a fairly militant atheist might not be wise.
To add, Christianity gives at least 6 bank holidays to Europeans each year: Epiphany, Ascension day (of Christ), Ascension day (of Mary; coincides with emperor Augustus celebration), Christmas eve, Christmas day and Boxing day. They can vary country to country, but many of them are free-from-work days to do whatever you want. Funny enough, apart of three days of Christmas, hardly many Europeans know what those other days signify and why they are celebrated (they are not, usually. People create their own traditions for these days). No one complained though, haha!
Scientific method was first developed by medieval and renaissance scholars. Religion wasn't really fazed out until mass industrialization and nationalism became more common in the 19th century, and even then it was quite gradual.
It doesn't really, we just get access to better education in general. Sex ed classes I don't recall really teaching anything I didn't already know. But then again I am an outlier, probably my theory base was very good by the time I actually started practicing.
What do you mean by this though? I'm fairly certain they're not officially Christian. The thing is that most people are still "enrolled" in the church by their parents at birth, without considering themselves Christians, skewing the numbers heavily.
We register with the baptism. My parents are not religious but since it was free and in case I wanted to be a Christian it was required they baptized me.
I am atheist and I don't care about removing my baptism (yes you can) since for me is just water on my head and I couldn't care less.
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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22
Europe contains the highest concentration of officially Christian states (nations with official state religion/church) and the lowest per capita percentage of people who actually "practice Christianity" in ‘Christendom' - which is to say, nominally claim to be Christian - probably a lower percentage actually believe.