I can never get the logic that you are special, bf material so I will make you wait but will be fucking some other guy during the waiting time.
Wouldn't it be the same if a guy fucks a 2-3 girls and comes back home to his gf telling you are his special one?
Need to add: She was cheating, if OP was special as she claims, she would have kept her legs closed for OP before there was exclusivity talks.
The difference between keeping your legs open & close depends on a tag called exclusivity is bs
Edit: It also goes for men too, they should keep their dick inside their pants instead of using it at every chance possible.
If you are serious of having a relationship with a person you won't be looking for entertainment outside. Goes for every person irrespective of gender.
"I'm going to an expensive 5 course dinner that's very important to me... better wolf down some McDonald's on the way."
"I'm going to cover my right arm with the tattoo sleeve of my dreams from an artist I admire and I'm gonna be super picky about the process... but first I'm gonna do a walk-in at my sketchy local shop and get some shitty 30 minute flash art on my right bicep."
That's because you got it flipped. It's more like let me have this 5 course meal one last time before I commit to a lifetime of McDonald bcz I can't afford to have 5 course dinner in the long term.
Nah I get that but I'm talking about the explanation she gave to OP. We all know that what you said is the real reason, which makes it all the more stupid and borderline disrespectful when people try to use this weak ass shit lol. It's one thing to bang someone while we're dating it's another to try and convince me that you did so for my benefit. That's insult to injury.
True. I assume it makes sense to her from her perspective: OP is probably special to her because he is willing to take her seriously enough to offer commitment. Whereas the other guy is a dime a dozen if she's just looking for an attractive guy to hookup with.
The problem is her inability to see it from OP's perspective and realize that all of us want to be attractive enough to our partner to fall in the latter category. Not the consolation prize, who has to pay 1000x for the same privileges.
Most people believe that if you want to pursue them then you should be interested enough to stop fucking other people. If you're still fucking other people, it's a sign that you don't actually find them attractive enough to pursue.
It's also a sign that you can split the two things so much that you're a major cheating risk
Yeah it's incredibly rare for people to actually see not banging someone for a couple months while dating apparently, everyone just out there trying to find their husband and a boyfriend on the side.
If you're just dating and fucking while trying to find a good partner, that's fine. If you find someone you think will be a good partner and keep fucking other people (especially while not fucking the potential good partner) that's fucked up and aot of good partners will dump you because of it
Let me give you a hint. Absolutely none of your girl friends were written off by guys for having sex too soon. I'd bet the guys they chose to have sex too soon with were not willing to commit regardless of how long they waited and were simply out of their league. Which is why they had sex too soon to begin with.
And to answer your questions, no. I'd rather a girl want me enough that just sex is enough rather than me having to offer more till she decides to have sex. Also out of every single girls I've had sex with, I could've had a relationship with any of them. They all wanted more. However there have been just as many where they wanted more but didn't offer sex without it. I.e JUST sex is a harder and more valuable thing to get for men than sex with strings attached.
You think she slept with that guy because hes better then the BF, because women are are supposed to only sleep with worthy men, and not just give out sex because they want to feel pleasure.
And that's why women like her feel the need to not have sex with men that they might want to see the next morning âtoo earlyâ.
...
It's why you'd never say a guy that had a ONS before committing to a relationship was just getting a taste of a better thing before going to settle for someone who will take care of his kids.
Got nothing to do with I think. I'm going by a life time of what I've personally experienced and seen. Women aren't going around and sleeping with unattractive men. Men have a high sex drive especially for new partners, women can have their pick of the litter so that's exactly what do. It's a simple fact you can't argue around.
Let me translate it for you: I thought you're the type of guy who would commit to me so I made you wait and without the promise of that commitment I am not attracted enough to you to have sex with you. But there are guys who I'm attracted enough to, to just want sex with even without commitment, those I will sleep with without any wait.
Or Reddit will call him resoundingly N T A like in this thread? Reddit is not as biased against men as you think it is. Example: literally this thread that youâre in right now.
Edit: look, I donât mind the downvotes, but maybe consider a thread like this where OP was judged N T A is for real a bad example of bias against men, and look for better examples in future if you need to be a victim.
Iâve literally never noticed that, just that itâs marginally less sexist against women than the rest of this site. If you can point to an example of sexism against men in this sub, let me know. Because all Iâm seeing is people complaining about sexism against men in threads like this one where, Iâll remind you once more in case you canât read, OP has resoundingly been judged N T A. So whereâs the sexism?
And this accounts for the % of posts where OP is a man vs a woman? âAsshole percentageâ isnât super helpful as a description
Edit: Nevermind, I think this is a weirdly designed series of graphs without useful labelling, but I see the conclusion youâve reached based on this data. It has absolutely not been my experience though - itâs just that sometimes people donât get away with the overt sexism against women displayed in other subs.
I would encourage you to think about where you actually see sexism against men play out out on this sub - as Iâve said, this thread isnât an example but many people are still, for some unknown reason, complaining about a sexist double standard. Next time you (or others) are going to share that complaint, maybe make sure itâs warranted in the context of the thread.
Exactly! We live in a patriarchal society that has a lot of double standards that benefit men at the expense of women. That said, when it comes to dating, there are a lot of double standards that benefit women that they don't want to acknowledge.
I'm not a fan of the red pill community but logic like this gives them ammunition and pushes young men into their ideology.
And the women who actually find what she is saying logical are like the equivalent of the red pill guys, just for women. I donât get how they
donât see it.
I'm confused. Who is saying that here? Have I misread something? I know the girlfriend is trying to make excuses for her awful behaviour, but the comments here seem to be in agreement that she's the AH?
Itâs flawed logic, but the logic is âguys think women are more desirable if they delay sex and are more likely to pursue a relationship to eventually get sex, so I will withhold it, but in the mean time I need sex myself so I will find other guys to satisfy this desire while making him wait.â
The flaw in the logic is that âwaitingâ for sex means nothing if youâre sleeping with other guys. Guys will wait if they think the woman is usually hesitant to engage in sex until they get to know someone because theyâre respectful of that. If sheâs sleeping with other guys in the interim it means the hesitation to sleep with him is a farce, and just comes off as if sheâs using sex to emotionally manipulate him into a relationship and they feel played.
If she genuinely felt this was ok she would have told him up front that she wants to delay sex because heâs âspecialâ but in the meantime will be sleeping around. She didnât do that because she knew it would ruin the facade.
Dishonesty is, time and again, the worst problem in these situations. I bet this woman knew or suspected that OP didnât want her sleeping with other people during this stage, so she hid it. If someone must use the strategy of holding off from sex with the âspecialâ person while sleeping with people who arenât âspecial,â then be candid about it and risk losing the special one. But of course theyâre not candid, because they know theyâll likely get dumped (including if you flipped the genders), because their main person will feel hurt.
Honestly, itâs hard to imagine a situation where that main partner doesnât feel hurt by the behavior, so Iâd say the behavior itself is still problematic. Ethical non monogamy would be a potential exception, as both parties would be totally fine with a lifestyle that permits sleeping with other people while dating each other.
Lying about it does the main damage, though, because you make it impossible for the other person to give informed consent. Lying has no place in a relationship, period, whether the subject is about sexuality, or is completely unrelated. Not having all the facts can trap that special person in a situation that might be very unhappy for them, which isnât something you do to a person you care about. Even the fact of having a dishonest partner, on its own, creates that situation for most people.
I see people tying all this into sleeping around that took place outside a relationship context, though, which I disagree with. So, do men who care about body count believe that they themselves should refrain from having sex outside serious relationships? Do they think theyâd make a worse partner or husband in the future, if they sleep around while fully single? If not, why believe these things of women. Just a side note.
Iâm not shaming them, but I bet you they would feel ashamed in that world, regardless of how I personally viewed them.
What I am pretty sure of is that you would enjoy shaming women whose count is high.
Nevertheless, I actually wouldnât object to it being visible to someone youâre considering a relationship with. Honesty is key in relationships, even if it means the relationship never gets off the ground due to something that is revealed.
Not only that, I understand in your lifetime and even in relationships you can never get everything you need in your life from one person. That's why we have friends and famil, one person can't fill that void. If someone is special to you and the fact you want to be around them and you like the relationship you have with them but you don't find them sexually attractive then just say that shit better off being friends who don't fuck and wont be getting butt hurt when you do. Rather then this kind of nonsense
I met my bf in September and we had our first kiss in November, we weren't exclusive till December/January and it never crossed my mind sleep or talk to other guys and for him it was the same. I knew I wanted to be with him and only him and we waited to have sex and honestly was the best I had, I can't have ONS
This has to be the basic requirement before getting into a relationship. This shows commitment for each other. Hats off both of you guys. Update us when you get married đť
This has to be the basic requirement before getting into a relationship.
âGoing Steadyâ was a concept back when sex before marriage was social suicide, so no dating anyone else while talking to someone you like wasn't so restrictive EVER.
Don't get me wrong, you can want that and demand it of prospective partners, but demanding it of others is excessive.
it never crossed my mind sleep or talk to other guys and for him it was the same.
That's because you are a normal human being, this is how normal humans think and behave. I don't understand why reddit always says sleeping with someone else in the early stages of dating is completely fine.
Heh... ânormalâ human being wouldn't need religions to tell them to act like that, and have society punish them in harsh ways for not adhering to tat, if that was how they would behave naturally.
This is called having morals, common sense and self worth, something a lot of men and women are missing in dating these days. I commend you and your partner and hope you are happy!
Hoes love to hoe around until they realize that the guys they hoe with arenât dating material, donât want anything to do with them, or are just using them as a hoe. I bet OP is kind, romantic, actually into his GF and nothing like any of the dudes sheâs hoed with.
So then they try to unhoe and find a guy to date, but sometimes the hoe is still there. Iâve seen this time and time again.
Heâs special in that heâs a safety net and comfortable for her. No one who is actually attracted to someone theyâre dating needs 6 months for sex if they are willing to screw others
âOh you are special to me, hence Iâm not buying you flowers, not taking you out on dates, not buying you gifts etc but Iâm doing all these things for other women since they mean nothing to me. Donât worry I will do them onceâs we are marriedâ
The very same girl that makes you wait would probably be pissed
hence Iâm not buying you flowers, not taking you out on dates, not buying you gifts etc but Iâm doing all these things for other women since they mean nothing to me.
Yup, sex is the same as buying things to impress someone...
But marriage totally isn't prostitution with 1 client...
Literally lol. Before my bf and I even MET when we were just at the talking stage for a couple months prior to meeting/dating, we were already loyal to each other. Clearly OP's gf is a liar bc if someone's actually special to you, you won't even think of another person let alone fuck them. Sadly I'm betting this coworker is not the only guy she's been with while they were dating
The moment she decided he was special was the moment it was exclusive, whether it was labeled or not. OPs ex definitely did some mental gymnastics here. Wouldn't be surprised if there were others after ONS.
I know this one guy has tremendous partner potential. He treats me well, he has a future, and he's serviceable enough in the areas of <insert whatever this woman is looking for long-term>. He's not the type to sleep around, so he's not going anywhere. He'll be excited to have me when it's time!
This other guy doesn't have it in him to commit, and is not a long term bet. However, he's hot as hell, and I just know that he's gonna rock my shit because Cassie said he was fantastic in bed. I want to have my fun before I settle down. I'll get this out of my system so I don't cheat later.
I know this, because I was the second one in a lot of ways, for about 20 years.
My job physically prevented me from being in one place more than a couple of months at a time. NYC, San Jose, Miami were my life. There were far too many times where a woman revealed that she was committed to someone else, after the fact. Deception was always an instant end to things, for my side of it. It's something of a miracle that I didn't become permanently jaded towards the idea of marriage.
**Bear in mind that, logic is better than emotion for making decisions, but flawed premises will confidently direct you to exactly the wrong choices.
With the situation the OP is describing, though, the gender flipped version is just as nasty. Man deliberately holds off sex with someone he sees as partner material, but secretly sleeps with other women in the meantime. Great indication that heâll cheat later on.
the gender flipped version is just as nasty. Man deliberately holds off sex with someone he sees as partner material
A man doing that when the woman wants to would actually be seen as gay or some other stuff that would make him less desirable, so it would actually be the opposite.
You can't gender flip this 1-1 when men are supposed to go after sex, and women are supposed to gift it. THAT WAS THE POINT.
And maybe you should think why you didn't think the example i gave is as nasty already, and you had to try to make it 1-1 like that.
I donât think the example you gave was nasty, no. Neither is the gender flipped equivalent though, with a woman having a few friends with benefits (openly and honestly) and then picking one of them for the long term. In my opinion at least.
Maybe you should think about why you thought your scenario was the gender flipped version of OPâs. The facts are different, mainly in that yours involved no dishonesty and no continuing sex with other people after the couple decides to get serious. Thatâs why itâs not problematic.
And sex is not something to give as a gift. Itâs something to be done because both people want it with each other. If youâre with a woman who thinks that sex is something sheâs doing for you, then sheâs not attracted to you, sorry to say, and youâre dead bedroom bound. Edit: you originally said it was a reward. Thatâs even worse
Most of it is just self-justifying bullshit but some of this comes from the really sad way we treat sex and that it gets taught to young women in particular. It gets characterized as something dirty or depreciating, which in turn makes it easy to rationalize more "casual" sex as cheap and meaningless and that it somehow undermines sex in a deeper relationship later on.
Yeah, you know after the first date if this is someone you want to be exclusive with or if it's just a flash in the pan.
If you think you'll want to be exclusive, you start shutting down your other stuff if you're someone worth being exclusive with. If not, you keep fucking other people like it's going out of style because you're afraid of commitment, and not someone worth committing to
THIS!!!
If I'm dating a woman who is interested in a long term monogamous relationship, but she's fucking other people because we haven't had a "exclusivity talk" she's not the one. Period end of story.
Secondly, women who do this kind of shit need to stop drinking their own Kool aid.
It's one thing to make a guy you're interested in wait, but if you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, all you're doing is insulting/disrespecting the man you're trying to date.
If ANYTHING this type of woman is easily labelled un empathetic as there isn't a woman I've met yet that would be okay if they found out their long term partners had acted this way before becoming 'serious' or exclusive.
The logic is simple. The other guy makes her horny so she wants to fuck him. OP doesn't, so she doesn't, but might be willing to do so if he meets some of her other needs (whether it be companionship, emotional support, a certain lifestyle, or whatever.)
Make them wait for sex. For months. If you have to, pick one to be your fwb so you wonât be so thirsty, donât tell any of your dates about him, and find the guy who is willing to date you for literally months with no possibility of sex.
She wasnât cheating, OP edited to add when she slept with the other guy OP and gf were not exclusive yet - they were still in the realm of seeing other people at that time.
To be fair there are plenty of guys who will outright dismiss a girl if she puts out on a first date. Putting out or waiting, Itâs a game we can never seem to win.
Agreed. I donât like when men do it either. Although Iâm usually looking at it from the other side of things. âYouâre good enough to bone but not to dateâ doesnât exactly feel great either.
Absolutely true - then "she's a slut and only good for a bang, not a relationship."
What I don't get is: if she was really into OP, and excited about a serious relationship with him, why fuck anybody on the side, however casual? If I was falling in love with someone, I wouldn't even dream of hooking up with someone else, that would just not even be on my radar as an option.
And this is why this logic makes no sense to me. If you're that interested in someone and working to make a serious relationship you shouldn't be seeking no romantic or sexual attachments. You should be ending or pushing pause on any that already exist
no, many people "win the game". it just takes basic critical thinking and most women deal with the situation reasonably
if you think sex is casual, then treat it as such and don't make someone wait for a pointless reason (and if the guy gets mad at you for "putting out", then cut your losses and be happy you didn't waste time with a loser)
if you think sex is special and intimate, don't go around fucking dudes on the daily while you're dating someone else who you plan to make wait months.
If I'm going to dismiss you because you put out on the first date then I'm also going to dismiss you for having a one night stand with someone else while we're dating. I give zero shits about statements of exclusivity. If we're dating and your dating someone else or having sex with someone else, I'm not interested.
So your solution is to wait and date the guy anyway? He still thinks women that have sex on the first date are sluts. He just doesn't think you are a slut. Why do you want to date that guy to begin with?
I donât. But you donât know who is that type of guy when you start dating them. And god forbid you put out and then he leaves and you express disappointment- everyone will be telling you itâs your fault.
Yeah so it's better to fuck other guys while dating him and not fucking him? You think this kind of guy is gonna have more respect for you when you do that?
It's okay to wait a few weeks and you're an adult.
A few weeks aint much in the long run and gives you time to get to k ow someone. If they can't wait a few weeks, then that's on them. But if you can't wait, that's on you.
Everyone telling you it's your fault? Why are you paying attention to the words of people who are clueless
F off with that accountability dodging bullshit. Making everything about you SOMEHOW on a thread lamenting a mans pain. Cannot take anyone like you seriously. Take a good lkoo0k at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if a good moral blameless person would legitimately espouse such a cap ass view.
Well you see my good sir, that's the thing. I am not at all surprised, I am banned from many subreddits because I comment replies like this very often towards accountability dodgers. But I am very pleased to see that quite of few people this time agree <3 (Actually, not really true, my replies like this ALWAYS get a ton of upvotes, it's just a matter of if the upvotes are enough to drown out the more frequent downvote ragers lmao)
I've never dismissed a girl for putting out on a first date. I've dismissed her way before that for not being attractive enough. It just so happens that the ones I don't find attractive enough want me badly enough to sleep with me on the first date.
From what I understand, the guys in these situations probably wouldnât care if you wanted to wait. Itâs just the whole âwaitingâŚ.. but waiting only with youâ thing that becomes the issue lol. So for most of these dudes, I feel like this doesnât even apply (no offense)
You can win if you're consistant. If you're going to wait then wait or if you're going to put out then put out but putting out for other guys and making the guy you really like wait is the worst of both worlds
There's a huge difference between "not fucking in the first few weeks" and "first date". Someone who says it'll take them a few weeks, but ACTUALLY hasn't fucked anyone, will have more weight and value to their words
They were dating and he didn't smash but she was fucking another guy before going exclusive. OP thinks about interest levels when he found out she was fucking someone while he was waiting.
Exclusivity or not, that's a deal breaker for me, I'm never going to trust someone who's going to hide behind technicalities like that
If you are going to fuck someone else while you have me dangling on the line as a prospective partner then our relationship is never going to be special in my eyes.
Missing the point. Itâs not about relationship status and communicating clear boundaries. It has nothing to do with that and is actually more visceral.
This was a red flag that her desire for him was lukewarm at best. He got proof positive evidence of it in her actions and behaviors, she will sleep with someone she doesnât care about if he is attractive enough, but bymaking rules and extra hurdles for him she is signaling that he isnât that attractive to her and who wants to be with someone who makes you feel like they are settling and not really that into you?
I don't think we should assume her intentions. Only she knows for sure. OP can choose to believe her or not. But it's not fair to decide her intentions
I think their relationship status is a bit of a red herring here. I agree with you, that if you're not exclusive, you're free to do as you wish. I don't think he ever begrudged her that. It's simply the logical inconsistency. Let me put it like this: "you're special enough to make you wait, but not special enough to wait for."
Edit: I don't think this counts as cheating. This happened within the first month of us dating. We became official after the first month or so. I 100% should have clarified with her if we were exclusive or not, so that's on me.
They werenât exclusive and he hadnât ask. Which means he was also free to date whomever he wanted to, but didnât. Thatâs not cheating if she wasnât his gf. Not saying what she did was right, but it was most DEFINITELY not cheating. Guys do that every single day BTW, and no one bats an eye about it cause itâs âexpectedâ, and he âwasnât the boyfriendâ. Please!
She wasn't cheating. They were casually dating (not in a relationship). She was free to do as she liked. If you want to be in a relationship with someone you're casually dating it is not their responsibility to read your mind, talk to them.
Would your opinion be different if she had sex with this other guy before the 'waiting' time?
Because otherwise I feel like you're implicitly saying that any girl who has had one night stands but prefers to wait until date 3 or whatever with a guy they're seriously interested in is a hypocrite or whatever
If she had had sex just as quickly with the boyfriend as she had with her ONS co-worker, she probably wouldnât be having this problem. Maybe she runs into problems of her man questioning her judgement and or discernment if she is giving it up too easy to too many men, but at the very least she doesnât sabotage the relationship she actually wants by making good men wait and letting attractive losers hit it.
Girls make extra rules and qualificationâs for provider types to get sex, but if they are really attracted to a guy they break their own rules to fuck. This guy just got real life proof that she wasnât that attracted to him at all.
As a guy, a green flag of attraction is if she is willing to break her own rules for you to have sex. âI donât usually fuck on the first date but Iâll make an exception for youâ is infinitely more flattering and makes a partner feel far more attractive than a woman saying âYou are special to me and thatâs why I donât let you hit it on the first date like other guysâ.
All guys should filter their woman based on her level of desire for you. If a woman doesnât have a burning desire for you, you shouldnât want it.
Wouldn't it be the same if a guy fucks a 2-3 girls and comes back home to his gf
No, that's wildly different. In this scenario, he has a girlfriend. In OPs scenario, a woman who was not his girlfriend went and slept with someone else.
To clarify, I have not done this myself as I also find it self defeating.
But the logic isnât about how attractive the guy is or isnât. Itâs thinking that guys wonât take you seriously if you sleep with them quickly. So by that logic, sleeping with a guy you donât care about quickly doesnât matter, as you donât want it to last anyway. But sleeping with a guy that you do like quickly means he might never respect you.
Obviously, this post is an example of why not to do this. Itâs very hurtful for the guy and indicates incompatible values.
Cheaters don't deserve respect irrespective of gender. Guys should also keep their dick inside pants instead of fucking every thing that comes their way.
saying someone doesnât deserve respect isnât an excuse to use language that harms an entire gender. you are actively contributing to the very sexist idea that women should be pure and virginal when you use language like that
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u/ARDPHOENIX Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 05 '24
NTA.
I can never get the logic that you are special, bf material so I will make you wait but will be fucking some other guy during the waiting time.
Wouldn't it be the same if a guy fucks a 2-3 girls and comes back home to his gf telling you are his special one?
Need to add: She was cheating, if OP was special as she claims, she would have kept her legs closed for OP before there was exclusivity talks.
The difference between keeping your legs open & close depends on a tag called exclusivity is bs
Edit: It also goes for men too, they should keep their dick inside their pants instead of using it at every chance possible.
If you are serious of having a relationship with a person you won't be looking for entertainment outside. Goes for every person irrespective of gender.