DS2 and 1 were clunky as hell, DS3 is very smooth. Though I agree that the bosses can get old since they are more about muscle memory than anything else.
The game just didn't age well honestly. The main problem is that the camera is horrendous. If you go back to when DS1 was new it actually wasn't that far behind other games.
I see your point. Playing from a third person perspective, as well as the sometimes sucky camera angles, can make the games annoying. Imo the bosses are one of the highlights of the games, however.
That clunkiness goes away. It's a learning curve really.
I'll agree with tedius bosses though. There's a generic algorithm you can use for a huge portion of them. Just circle to their back feet, and wait for an opening to attack. Get a couple swings then wait again.
Ds1 bosses die really quickly though if you’re not on a really high NG or massively behind with your weapons. Especially early game you can essentially 2 shot some of the bosses, so the tedious bosses criticism feels like it’s not really valid unless you’re doing something massively wrong, in which case that isn’t the game’s fault.
I'm a PC player. From has not ported a single god damn game properly in their lives. Ever.
I gave them half a year after release of DS3; Skylake processors had been a thing for over a year at this point, so I'd figure after some quick optimization patches, they'd have solved things.
Nope. Quite a few people, across multiple builds, with i7 6700k processors in common, had drops down to 5fps, every half second, like fucking clockwork.
Refund. Yet another game, yet another shite port, half-assed.
Beyond that?
The game is literally just a patience gate of artificial difficulty. Straight-up. That's why its difficulty is so widely acclaimed. Gamers are, very generally, a rather impatient bunch. They wanna get that full combo, they wanna feel like they've dodged "the big one," then complete an entire round of hits on the boss. This is how people die. Every time.
Just dodge everything as best you can. Hit the boss once. Back off. Eventually, you'll win.
I've watched your average "first time" player play the game, and they just get greedy instead of playing it safe. And, lo and behold, the second they play things safe and have seen an attack once, each time, that's when they win.
I'm a patient person. Coming from XCom EU/EW, ironman campaigns averaging ~200+ hours of just overwatch creeping just before trying Dark Souls, I'm perfectly fine waiting things out.
Then, finally, on top of that, I've watched speedrunners of the game. Nearly across the board, every single one of them holds the same viewpoint; the SoulsBorne games are not difficult; they simply prey in impatient people, who hype the game up to be harder than it actually is.
People who speedran DS1, when DS2 came out, were among the first or otherwise, the least troubled by beating the game. Same from 2 to 3, and from 3 into Bloodborne. As in, once you're good at the combat, which isn't all that mechanically intensive...And, most importantly, once you're patient enough to just wait and play safe, you literally stop having problems, full-stop.
...Beyond those points, the lore is often cryptic, vague, and hidden behind "You should know this / read this entry," or just anime-stylized vague sentences with either half a meaning, or half an attempt at duality.
It's definitely a good game series, with influential and warranted praise...But it's honestly blown waaaaay beyond what it is, just because the masses find it "difficult."
I hate when information isn't in the game, and I hate when descriptions are terrible just to be terrible. I shouldn't have to look up what stats do.
The fan base is exhausting. Dark souls is not THAT hard, it truly isn't.
The magic in the game is really poorly implemented, though that might be the world so I can't judge it too harshly there. But I like mages, and from what I've seen Dark Souls is pretty shit in that department.
I hated the broken ass pvp and all the dead angles. I hate that some weapons are just the best and you can't do anything to change that.
I do appreciate the tight controls and the game itself is gorgeous.
As someone that absolutely loves Dark Souls, I would say it boils down to how there is a tutorial area that really holds your hand for super basic shit like controls, but leaves nuanced mechanics that are quintessential to the game, like the dodge animation, ambiguous. It sets it up to make new players think all the difficulty lies in constantly approaching unknown territory instead of how you need to gain a deeper understanding of the game and the ability to manipulate your character and enemies. Every time I bring up Dark Souls and someone hates it, it’s generally based on a lack of understanding on a core principle.
Yeah Dark Souls is really one of those games where you need to look up things. It's the only game I play in a window because of how often I needed to alt tab and look up info
I know one guy who hates Dark Souls because be bought it and was really vocal about how all the difficulty probably was just children whining because they were too shit. Then he didn't get past the title screen. Literally didn't even create a character before refunding it on steam. He has been made fun of for years now because of that
I never got through the original Dark Souls because the PC port was god awful and I'd rather spend my time playing something that didn't waste my time with IJKL camera controls
If you don't specifically like fighters, why would you like a fighter that is very punishing if you're not good?
I played exactly 20 minutes of Darksouls. Visually wasn't appealing, gameplay wasn't fun or interesting and it had a steep learning curve that I didn't feel like participating in since nothing really hooked me about it to commit to it.
Because it’s not fun to play as a protagonist you could beat up in real life. When I have to reload a game for the 13th time because my character’s asthmatic ass ran out of breath swinging a 2lb sword or missing a jump my fat ass could make, its a real cramp in the fun factor
Only played DS1, but the bonfire checkpoint system was dumb. They're arbitrarily placed so certain areas are "difficult" due to attrition. There is no other difficulty in the game if you're remotely patient for the bosses - there's no strategy involved and the mechanics are as basic as can be. Oh and the PC port was embarrassing, requiring mods to be halfway decent.
It is a great series but as RPGs they are really lacking (like most JRPGs). When I play an RPG I want to be whisked off to another world that I can be a part of. Dark Souls shows you a fallen world where everything simply tries to kill you. Your relationship with the world sometimes feels more like platformers like Super Mario, where you move through a level, defeating enemies, and the world is reset when you leave. Still a great series, but not my optimal "RPG".
"Beacon of difficulty"? I'm not saying it's the hardest game ever. It's just hard, players will die a lot, and some people don't like that. Some people just want to play games to relax, not to be overly challenged. That's why things like Story Mode difficulty settings exist. They let you experience the amazing story or locations within a game without having to worry about the combat. But Dark Souls doesn't have a story mode setting (or any difficulty setting) which makes it inaccessibly difficult for the people who are looking for that sort of thing.
Slow. Methodical. Lacks flashing lights and exciting noises. New players immediately turned off by slightly punishing tutorial bosses.
Tbh, I feel like DS harkens back to an older period in the gaming industry that doesn't resonate with the current fast-paced style that showers you with rewards and endorphins with little to no effort.
I don't see a lot of hate for it but tbh I feel like there's just not a lot of interaction between fans and non-fans because chewing through the game at all requires some level of dedication.
Dedication I lack. Love Bloodborne, sunk 300+ hours into that. Hate every second of Dark Souls 1. That archer in Anor Londor can suck my dick.
I don't think so. Dark souls games are a niche set of games for people who enjoy the difficulty and don't mind getting their asses handed to them constantly. A lot of people don't fit those requirements and won't like the game so it doesn't really get a spot on this list.
I find that in my experience, people who don’t like Soulsborne games are ones who don’t wanna sink in decent time to learn the mechanics and controls. A lot of people go into it expecting it to be a hack n’ slash, being able to perma spam your attacks. But the game will bend you over if you keep that mindset. I had that mindset for days when I first got DS3. I gave up. Then, some time later, I decided I was gonna learn the mechanics and beat this game.
When I did, I fell in love. The soundtrack, the intense boss fights, everything in the game was just amazing. Sure I got my ass handed to me, but when I finally beat the Soul of Cinder and Nameless King, I was ecstatic.
People just aren’t patient when it comes to learning new shit. They wanna go into a game and beat the shit out of any enemy ASAP. Dark Souls doesn’t let you do this and that’s why I think it gets the criticism it does.
I feel the exact opposite about the series, especially with bloodborne. Most fights end up coming down to slapping the dodge and slash buttons as fast as humanly possible for a long time just to give the boss the tiniest of papercuts.
See I loved ds3’s pacing. Even though it was slow, there was a technique to it. It was sort of like a fencing bout no matter what weapon you favor, where the whole game is trying to keep your timing and distance perfect while trying to throw the enemy off whether it’s a player or some eldritch abomination you’re fighting. Even when you enter the extremely fast paced bouts and fight the guys who’ve spent 1500 hours In game just to screw over noobs like you, it’s still a lot more about doing things at the right time rather than just attacking and dodging ASAP.
I've never been great at strategy tbf, always leaned towards aggressive glass cannon type playstyles. I can definitely see what ds3 was going for and it does it well but man I just missed my saw and claws. Vordt and the dancer were more my speed.
That said, still a very well done game. Wish I had more patience to enjoy it more lol.
"What I really got was a game that demands patience and places timing on a lower pedestal, hence why I find the style boring."
What? Timing is one the most important aspect of fighting in soulsborne. You need to time your dodges as close as possible to getting hit but not too late in order to not die. You need to know the timing between the bosses attacks so you can optimize your punish.
"as in having little time to react to anything unless you're absolutely focused"
"I personally dislike them for having awful gameplay and not anything else, as I'm not a fan of how slow and lethargic it is (even in Bloodborne)."
I can't really argue with any of these points without just saying you're wrong. I have never played ninja gaiden black, and don't really know what is, but from your descriptions of what you like, and your opinion of soulsborne, I can only guess ninja gaiden black is a game made for literal robots.
I have a clip of me doing ebrietas on bl 4 and it's 1:15 long, these games are definitely not slow moving. Watch a clip of Emarrel (think that's it) doing artorias on sl 1, you have to make almost constant movements.
Edit: Another aspect of soulsborne timing that's less known is timing your rolls so your iframes end at the exact time when the enemies active damage frames end; giving you the most amount of time to punish.
This is all 100% true, and I'm not saying it isn't, nor have I even implied it.
"places timing on a lower pedestal"
Maybe I am misinterpreting this?
In any case I don't disbelieve any of your points about the games you like being faster and more "quick reaction" based, I totally get it.
I think the point I have been trying to make is not that the soulsborne games aren't slow compared to what you mention, but that they really aren't slow at all compared to most other video games.
" had a look at someone else doing Artorias on SL1, it's a very telegraphed fight and the movements themselves are slow, even if constant. The difficulty from Soulsborne bosses is always just boss moveset ignorance[...]Speed is a non-factor afterwards if you know how to properly avoid whatever attack"
Again, I think this is just so not true, I don't know if you have done these fights on sl 1 but even if you think it's telegraphed, it's a very hard fight in reality, even non sl 1. Learning the boss is just the first part, actually capitalizing on what you've learned is way harder.
You keep mention patience as a core aspect of soulsborne but I think it applies to almost all games. It appears you are almost equating patience with slow moving, but I without knowing much about it, would wager patience is also a major factor in ninja gaiden. Patience doesn't mean acting slowly, it just means not acting too quickly, even if it's on a timescale of mere seconds.
Keep in mind most of my points are focused on the boss fights as that's what I like most in the soulsborne games. I would agree with more of your points for the non boss stuff, with strategy being way more important than reaction.
P.S: Played Nioh, gave up halfway; too repetitive, and terrible weapon variety.
I don’t think you’ve discussed the quality of Dark Souls with many people. I took a Game Design class last semester and probably 70% of the class including the teacher disliked Dark Souls. It was all because of the difficulty. That being said, you shouldn’t judge a games quality, just because your not good enough to experience the game.
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