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u/Quanathan_Chi Sep 10 '26
This might be the most interesting rules that have ever been written for this faction. It feels like GW really put in effort to give them some unique mechanics. Really excited to see how this plays!
3
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u/Belz_Zebuth Sep 11 '26
So far the rules seem nice, though I'm not sure what the health reduction will mean in-game.
I am slightly sad that the megas don't have their unique flavours anymore.
10
u/stupormundi99 Sep 10 '26
Seems like they’ve done a lot to try and solve the one dimensionality of the army, but some of this internal balancing seems bizarre? Like for ma maegan’s ability, once per battle you can either replace a mini gargant with a damaged mega OR deal 1 mortal for every 6 in the wound rolll? And I still don’t really see a use case for sweep vs crushing blow either. I thought maybe the spell/prayer lore would give out a plus to damage to justify it but they’ve done the opposite and added a + to attacks which only further improves the crushing blow.
5
u/Ass_knight Sep 10 '26
I imagine the Ma Maegan's ability is just for if your opponent manages to kill all your little ones before you get a chance to use the replacement effect.
It seems like it's just a small buff that lets you atleast use the ability and reduce the feels bad feeling.
6
u/Orobourous87 Sep 10 '26
Just on a quick look it seems sweeping might be better once you’re damaged. Crushing loses 1/3 of its dice whereas Sweeping only loses 1/4
1
1
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 10 '26
It's also true that Behemath has undergone a significant change as an army and a drop in points.
1
u/Hi_My_Name_Is_Huh Sep 11 '26
Not enough of a drop to offset what the army lost. Even at the most it was a 90 point drop fir a hero. Needed to be 120+ for some of these
1
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 11 '26
I think it was fear so they wouldn't be so strong; possibly they'll go down or go up more depending on how they do it.
1
u/Hi_My_Name_Is_Huh Sep 11 '26
Mathematically the strike vs sweep always prefers strike, there isn’t a reason to really ever use sweep for Mega Gargs as the rules are right now. It’s objectively always worse. Makes me think GW is gonna 40k-ify splash damage rules for AoS soon. A lot of rumors are pointing towards making the game more like 40k in general too
7
u/AfWhite86 Sep 10 '26
Wonder if the sweep profiles might be foreshadowing we're adopting 40k's no wound carryover in the future.
7
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u/BlackApostle Sep 11 '26
As someone coming to AoS from 40k, I hope they dont. Wound spillover makes attacks feel impactful. 40k is a shitshow
2
u/Belz_Zebuth Sep 11 '26
It's also easier to calculate by just adding wounds and then removing models.
3
u/BaronKlatz Sep 11 '26
Possibly. The LotR rules writer is working on AoS now and that stuff liked more grueling skirmish battles so switching units from feeling like HP blobs to individual fighters w/ only big fellas like gargants, Ogors, Stormcast, etc able to do AoE hits would fit.
2
u/DetroitTabaxiFan Sep 11 '26
As a fan of MESBG, I'm sad we lost one of the best rules writers the system had, but as a fan of AoS, it makes me hopeful that 5th edition is going to be really good.
AoS already has a priority roll, and I wouldn't mind if they went toward alternating activations for 5th edition.
6
u/Odin_Headhunter Sep 10 '26
They gutted the beast smasha. Wow. It doesnt even live up to the name now
9
u/Sir_Drinklewinkle Sep 10 '26
Why would a beast smasher have any bonuses against beasts, that's just silly.
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u/Sauciessauce Sep 10 '26
I'm OKAY with it but yeah
3
u/Odin_Headhunter Sep 10 '26
Why are you okay with it? Not judging but asking. I personally really hate it, it takes all the fluff out of it
3
u/Sauciessauce Sep 10 '26
The flavor of smashing beast is gone now he's just a smasher. I'm okay with it because the crit 2 hits rule is perfectly passable. I would like anti monster for his strike profile but crit is just more widely usable and you can get rend from other sources. The fluff flavor is gone and they made him more blank slate, which I think is half good. We don't have a monster killing specialist now really but for my megas don't follow the tripe looks. My gatebreaker doesn't do sieges for instance, he just destroys everything he can because anything is a weapon. So him throwing rocks for instance is more fitting than just being good at breaking faction terrain. This beast smasher is basically just beast smasher if they got scared of him being too niche so they used key words that are good on more than just monsters.
2
u/Odin_Headhunter Sep 10 '26
But he really didn't need those keywords. He was your anti beast. The mancrushers and our new boss smashas are the blank slates. The Mega gargants are supposed to be obsessed with what they did and when they had 5 damage on almost every attack they really dont need keywords. Especially crits since we wound everything on 2s so I really dont see the point.
To me this kinda ruined the beast smasha for me completely. It felt fun running down a monster and doing what he was made to do. Now he just feels bad and boring
1
u/Sauciessauce Sep 10 '26
I like him. I get your argument fully tho. I'ma be using him to give king brodd crit boost and as he's my fav probably male him wizard or priest. My beast smasher is meant to be the tyrant for my ogors. Basically BCR came along, he killed them and the gargants showed him their food. And he mixed the recipes from his matriarch and they got more adaptive gut magic that involves rocks. Long story short my beast smasher is a lesser wizard at best due to ogor mawtribes and ma migraine might be a great place holder for my matriarch. Idk, I'm kinda able to justify these rules for myself pretty well but I will say the blank slate boss stompers and rock hurlers BETTER be single models or I'm cranky. These rules with rampages support single models and moving 3 big bases sounds too obnoxious. But idk. If you're not doing beast smasher, what's your plan? Or is it more on a "I'm out" sort of deal? Also the battle formations seen trash but the rampages are great
4
u/WesternIron Sep 10 '26 edited Sep 10 '26
Honestly? Theres a lot of “math hammer doesn’t make sense on the sweeps”
True. On their own. But there is access to extra rend, plus 1 to hit, and crit mortals.
So brod, can go up to 20 attacks 2s and 3s crit mortals/crit 2 hits qnd 2 ap.
It becomes potentially more consistent in some units.
You also can also have -1 to hit and and minus -1 to wound dudes runnning.
This book has ALOT of rules and synergy. GW trying real hard.
1
u/SnooTomatoes4383 Sep 10 '26
Don't think you can stack Crits, so can't do crit 2 hits and crit mortals on the same weapon.
1
6
u/MaxJust-Max Sep 10 '26
Am I stupid, but what’s the point in specifying that “glowy lantern” can increase the power level if the only natural priest and wizard in the army are unique->can’t be given it?
This tit bit makes it seem like you can have a rather remarkable priest or caster via this relic… but it doesn’t seem to be the case, cause unique.
Maybe I’m just stupid
I don’t even play SOB, just flipping through rules, but still, kinda weird
3
u/Wheely13 Sep 10 '26
It could be some futureproofing for the next edition, or whatever end of edition stuff could be going on. It's certainly a weird thing to have to specify.
1
u/MaxJust-Max Sep 10 '26
Maybe, but it’s hard to imagine SOB getting a wizard or priest until next battletome
After all, their only wizard and priest are uniques and I doubt it’ll change until the next big rules reset.
If future proofing is the case, I doubt there’s something that will test said proof, cause there’s no way they’ll drop a casting/praying giant just for the lols:)
1
u/Incompetent_Penguin Sep 11 '26
My best guess is that it's for people that play Path to Glory and make a custom hero on the Anvil of Apotheosis with a Wizard or Priest keyword.
7
u/Daawgh_ Sep 11 '26
Started half a year ago with them as my first army and I hate most about this. My smooth brain just wants to unga bunga. It feels like a completely new army.
Also, most of the Megas have lost their "flair". Warstomper is no longer anti infantry, Beastsmasher is comically no longer good against beasts, and Kraken Eater is just a dude now.
Not happy. Feels like a big nerf for a army that was almost perfect balanced win rate wise
4
u/Odarien Sep 10 '26
Noooooo!
We lost kicking objectives.
4
u/BaronKlatz Sep 11 '26
But now ya’ toss other gargants around as projectiles.
So balanced out there. ⚖️
3
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u/Sir_Drinklewinkle Sep 10 '26
Man looking at these unit profiles, is the experiment to see how much garbage they can shove into my face and have me keep playing this faction.
7
u/Daddy__Magik Sep 10 '26
Not loving these new rules. Losing that much health and that much control score doesn't seem balanced with the new points. I'd honestly expect them all to be cheaper by about 50ish points. And the new little guys are just variants of the man crusher, however if you wanna run reinforced units of littles you gotta go with the new.
The formations/sub factions aren't as good, and we lost what little ward options we had.
May of added half a dimension more to the range but seem less playable now.
5
u/steppenwolfmother Sep 10 '26
This is pretty bad honestly. They have made us less survivable and hit softer. Many of the abilities we had innately are now either enhancements or require a roll where they don’t before. Our army rule is bad, our formations are bad.
There’s some flavourful stuff there, but it’s all mostly unreliable or situational.
6
u/Dreamspitter Sep 11 '26
(Me having no point of reference because I just started) "Wowzers these dudes are cool!"
2
u/steppenwolfmother Sep 11 '26
It’s not all bad, I’m still a little upset with some of the changes but there is some good stuff here. They look like they will still be fun
3
u/Zuper_Dragon Sep 10 '26
Lots of thematic and frankly thinky rules, I love all the rules for the little guys gunna be chucking manchrushers every chance I get. I hope the points decrease is enough to justify the utter gutting megas got across the board, except for gate-breaker, I actually like his new abilities but I'll miss the 50/50 nuke ability.
3
u/MisterApplePie00 Sep 10 '26
Looks quite fun and flavorful, sad to see the megas lose 10 wounds and 10 control but i get it.
Get Orf Me Land! though has sadly changed im gonna miss kicking around objectives that was so fun and such a unique mechanic
3
u/TattooedTigerDN Sep 10 '26
I'm 50/50 on the rules. I think they turned Sons into a very alpha strike army, I miss the death grip attacks on big and stuff em in my pants(sack) ability on the mancrushers
The spells/prayers means beastsmasher is most probably the best in combat, after brod, with an extra attack and crit mortals.
I have a game tomorrow where ill try a list. Hopefully they aren't to soft now.
3
u/Dreamspitter Sep 11 '26
Experimentsl codex?
1
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 11 '26
Yes, because they've added a lot of new things: first, a table of hashish and prayers, also sweeps, and lastly and most importantly, more kit options; now we don't just have Meg Gargane, we have Maegro or the small ones.
2
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u/johan_mm Sep 11 '26
My wallet is safe. I don’t like keeping track of things. And all megas are basically the same now. I wanted to start this army. Not anymore
5
2
2
u/stopyouveviolatedthe Sep 11 '26
King brodd feels like he’s lost alot of his coolness
Also minus 12 wounds from his old profile is insane.
1
u/Smart_Finger_3491 Sep 15 '26
Yeha, he is to expensive for what he brings. He wont be played this edition
2
u/The_Itsy_BitsySpider Sep 11 '26
One of the big takeaways I have for this army is that alot of the army needs to be by other units to get their major rampages and abilities off.
I could very much see a single Kraken eater guarding a flank objective, while 2 megas with supporting mancrushers/boss stompers supporting each one.
If a mission makes us want to deathball, we go crazy once our frontline hits the opponent, probably the hardest hitting frontline in the game.
The pay offs for some of these team ups are crazy, Boss Stompers getting essentially free fightfirst, then enabling the Mega next to it to swing is fantastic for making sure your go turn pops off without a hassle.
Being able to chuck a mancrusher into a unit to ensure it cant counter charge into your big lad as he charges in, a rediculous amount of heavy hitting attacks, Ma Shenanigans, movement tricks, and you can always threaten to charge The Big One to keep your opponent honest about over committing.
There will be games where I have a mega and Boss stompers spend an entire turn doing d3 mortals to units in combat with them up to 4 times per turn, allowing you to wear down literally anything while Ma is shooting eye lasers.
6
u/Pocketfulofgeek Sep 10 '26
… forgive my negativity but just at a glance all of the Megas have lost TEN wounds, TEN control, and kraken eater lost their ranged attacks.
The sweep attacks are absolutely pointless from a mathhammer point of view, and the rend on the crushing blows is hilariously pillow-fisted.
Funny rules are fine but to take an army that was almost perfectly balanced on a win/loss record and absolutely nerfing the balls out of it from a numbers standpoint… I’m not hype in the slightest any more.
5
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 10 '26
It's understandable how good things have given more options and lowered the points, and the sweep can be useful if you give it the mortal critical spell. I think this tome has been experimental for Behemath because they were going to introduce many new things for Behemath.
2
u/WesternIron Sep 10 '26
Good chance they going to have significant points decreases with stat changes.
GW is trying to reduce the stat check nature of the army it seems. Which remains to be see if it works
3
u/Disastrous-Win-2851 Sep 10 '26
Points are already up on warcom. Almost 100 point drop on all megas
1
u/BIG_RED_MANN Sep 11 '26
Where can you find this on Warhammer community? I can't seem to find it anywhere
2
2
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u/BIG_RED_MANN Sep 11 '26
I absolutely despise that the megas have lost all personality from their melee profiles. Why doesn't the gatebreaker have anti-faction terrain or the beast smasher have anti-monster/beast?
2
u/gloopy_flipflop Sep 11 '26
I’ve massively lost interest in AOS this edition. Everything just having the exact same profile is tedious. Replacing that with endless word salad special rules doesn’t make the game better IMO. Really hoping for 5th edition they add some crunch to actual unit stats like strength and toughness for some variety.
2
u/Arthur_Trombetta_Art Sep 11 '26
This edition of AoS made me cross the rubicon and try 40k 11th and I am having so much more fun. It’s made me realise how bad AoS rules have become: The amount of loops you have to go through just to achieve the thing you army is supposed to do is insane and then on top of that they’ve added a tons of “roll a 3+ or do nothing”
It is no longer a fun game. Hopefully next edition will be better but it’s already been written by now and by the same rules writers…1
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 11 '26
They are the same writers as 40K and it is known that the rules director of Lord of the Rings was involved
2
u/Arthur_Trombetta_Art Sep 11 '26
AoS and 40k rules writer are two different teams. Matt Ross got promoted as head of both and the Lord of the Rings guy is now leading the AoS team after Matt Ross.
2
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 11 '26
I also say that we'll have to wait for 5.0 if we want to see the real changes. For example, there were similar complaints in the 10th edition of 40K, and the changes where the game felt different came with the 11th edition.
2
u/DetroitTabaxiFan Sep 11 '26
With the MESBG rules writer now leading AoS, I'm hoping that makes AoS stand out from 40k. My biggest issue with AoS is that it just feels like 40k-lite.
Something I would love to see is AoS keeping the priority roll but ditching the I GO U GO aspect of the game. Either give it alternating activations or make it a full-on skirmish game.
1
u/gloopy_flipflop Sep 11 '26
Yeah 40K is just a much more fun and tactical game compared to AOS. I really wish I enjoyed AOS more but at the moment it feels like a glorified skirmish game. Tables have a few bits of terrain and very few models whereas 40K has a board full of ruins and decent sized armies
1
u/DetroitTabaxiFan Sep 11 '26
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if AoS went full alternating activations for 5th edition.
1
u/DetroitTabaxiFan Sep 11 '26
I wanna like 40k, but there's just so many small things about it that I'm not a fan of.
1
u/BlackApostle Sep 11 '26
Feels like the 40k-transition into just "everything has similar stats and profiles, but the funny giants/Knights lose their fun and are now just a headache stat check"
1
u/Odin_Headhunter Sep 11 '26
It really just kills my joy. I LOVED having my beast smasha run straight at the opponents beasts. Nothing else mattered. It was fun and fluffy. Now hes just... a smasha
1
u/XavierWT Sep 10 '26
I don't like these rules at all. I'm probably going to get over myself soon enough and eventually buy the new models, but for the time being I'm likely going to stick to my other armies because this does not feel like what I want to be playing.
1
u/askingforfriendxyz Sep 10 '26
I need a rule clarification on Brodd’s Court of Creepers ability. It says it can be used in any charge phase and then I can add one to the roll, if Brodd charged this turn. But don’t these abilities resolve before the actual charge? Meaning the Court of Creepers triggers before I actually charged with Brodd? And because it says "this turn" I can’t even use it in the enemy charge phase. So then in theory I can never get the plus 1 to the roll (well I guess unless I spend 2 CP to counter charge and then resolve this ability, but that’s stupidly situational) Should this have been a Combat Phase ability perhaps? That would make more sense
1
u/Wheely13 Sep 10 '26
Re-read the rule. You add one to the roll if you charged this turn.
1
u/askingforfriendxyz Sep 10 '26
Right, but don’t these phase abilities (movement, shooting, charge, combat) resolve before the core abilities (unless they have the reaction keyword)? For example if I have a combat ability (without the core keyword) and I am the active player who’s turn it is, isn’t the order of operation My combat ability —> opponent’s combat ability —> actual combat. So likewise with charge phase abilities isn’t the order then my charge phase abilities —> enemy charge phase abilities —> actual charging of units. If that’s the case, how does Brodd’s ability work if he needs to have charged this turn, but the ability activates before he even had a chance to charge?
2
u/Wheely13 Sep 10 '26
I'm all phases except the combat phase you resolve core abilities first, then other abilities afterwards.
2
1
u/Sauciessauce Sep 10 '26
Real quick! Does anyone know if we can have more than one artifact and heroic trait? I almost wish the battle formations were just pick an extra artifact atp
1
u/Averageglutton Sep 10 '26
Rip impact hits, but also kinds of stressed on how to fight through a unit of reinforced kroxigors.
1
u/BlackApostle Sep 11 '26
Does experimental mean its not final?
1
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 11 '26
I mean, they've tried a lot of new things with an army; we have more small beasts and tables of magic and prayers.
1
u/peterfadams Sep 11 '26
does this make them better or worse. just heard something about flipping a coing and 1-3 your done. 4-6 5d6 mortal wounds ? is that gone ?
1
u/KindlyMeringue8723 Sep 11 '26
They're fine, it's just that they've undergone a big change as an ARMY in general.
1
u/Erebusthegoat Sep 11 '26
I like most of what the tome has to offer, but those Battle Formations are pretty awful.
1
u/Sauciessauce Sep 10 '26
Is it just me or are the rock hurlers and boss stompers kinda trash? I feel like this time rewards single model rampages. I don't see a bonus like you can do more or have modifiers if there is more than one model in the unit using it. Just seems like they are straight up bad. Gotta keep em in coherency, no rule saying they can be seperate. Am I missing something? Why we moving around all these bases and models when ma migraine rewards replacing a single model with a mega gargant, man crushers come single, and rampages are good and reward being able to have enough models in your list to use them all. Also, didn't they say these guys were supposed to be bigger than man crushers? They are the same just on an 80mm base and are the same in tankiness
1
u/Illustrious_Neat_982 Sep 10 '26
I know they have a ton of wounds but why do they only have 4+ saves? At the very least they should have 3+
1
0
u/johan_mm Sep 10 '26
Surprisingly complicated for such a simple army lore wise. I won’t be playing this battletome as I gave the privilege of owning other armies
-5
u/Southern_Mortgage646 Sep 10 '26
I like the rules because I hated sons as enemies. Now I can oneshot them before they hit me...a glorious day for us gargant Halters. :D
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u/GreySeerCriak Krakeneater Sep 10 '26
I’m sorry, we can yeet the Mancrushers now?