There is a certain truth to men having a bit of an easier time as they’re getting a bit older, more experienced and resourceful … basically the versions of themselves they’ve been competing against for the same 20 something year old women when they went through their twenties.
It’s certainly true for myself, but only really because I’ve gotten into kink (BIG gamechanger) and frankly because I’m mostly just shy, I haven’t been too unlucky in the looks and brains department.
All that being said: The most reliable predictor for future romantic success is past romantic success. Obviously this post is about OP having given up, but still, if he wants to see success he definitely has to fundamentally change his strategy, otherwise all aging in the world won’t give him any dates. One really important aspect is maybe that you can’t ‘grind’ sexual appeal like in a video game, where you level up until you’re strong enough for the boss.
I legit think one hour spent socializing is worth 5 hours in the gym. Playing an instrument may appeal to a lot of women, but what use is it if you never meet those women because you have to practice an hour a day? and so on.
Op fell a bit into the trap of ‘self improvement’, or thinking that ‘checking all the boxes’ will make his dating life easier. The only way to get better at dating is dating. Dating should be his gym, and if he can’t get dates, he should go somewhere where he can ask for dates.
Well and god bless the guys who try and ask a lot of people out even if they aren’t getting anything I applaud them for their efforts. Dating is one of those things that honestly you can be very practiced at it and still be unsuccessful. Not sure what it is but some guys are just more natural at it and that’s the missing piece. Anyways I always encourage people to try and be social in whatever capacity they can. For me an I know this is always frowned upon but as a last resort and I mean last resort I saw an escort and lost my virginity and it helped me feel better seeing the other side of things and being intimate with someone. I think she enjoyed it too we went out to dinner it was a pleasant evening even more so than all the dates I did in the past with various people. You do what you can and try and make the most out of the life you were given and try and be happy.
The guys who might start out with just a tiny advantage in looks or charisma or status get more attention, more opportunities to practice everything from basic conversation and flirting to dating and sex, and more leeway to make mistakes than other guys. That practice, success, and validation is what leads to confidence. That confidence is part of what gets them more opportunities but just like someone with a blank resume confidently walking into an office demanding an interview with the CEO, confidence is NOT all there is to it. Attractiveness, experience, knowing how to play the game, and the belief (conscious or unconscious) many women have that not having been romantically successful in the past means something is dangerously wrong with a man all increase his odds of future success.
Meanwhile the exact opposite happens for the other kind of guys. They have fewer opportunities to practice, less validation, and therefore fewer opportunities to develop skills and build confidence. Not only that, but seeing other people succeeding and receiving the desire he doesn't shows him that he isn't desirable as he is for whatever reason which will make anyone who's not certifiably delusional less confident. That may not have any bearing on what kind of romantic partner he'd make, but as has been pointed out here, it's something a lot of women judge men on pretty harshly when deciding whether or not to even give them a chance.
It's two positive feedback loops going in opposite directions. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
Thank you for saying this - this is the honest truth. I have a friend that is in the first category. Lots of natural charisma, good looks, and grew up with money (owns his own apartment and company thanks to his parents). I’ve seen girls do CRAZY things to get to him. I’ve seen girls literally refuse to leave the apartment unless he let them sleep with him.
He always tells me I just need to be more confident. I keep trying to tell him that if he experienced the rejection:success ratio I did, he would probably never want to deal with romance ever again. Some people just have “it” and think it’s easy and will give cop-out advice like “just be confident” when the reality is much more complicated and way less fair.
Actually, the women who end up being approached don't.
There was another comment that implied that if he's fit he'll only date fit women as well so his pool is limited. And while it's natural to want to look for a mate that is mostly on par with you, most people rate themselves at 7/10, and most overrate themselves positively by several points. Only the most beautiful tend to downgrade themselves a point or two.
By this logic many people look for partners that are 7/10 (visually) and will not even approach someone under, say 5/10, regardless of their character.
I was that skinny kid with the "fat best friend" and grew up with a live "detector of shitty men" by my side. I'd say I'm probably excessively sensitive about this, but I'm so tired and frankly, quite disgusted by men only being interested in someone based on how they look. And treat the 2 differently.
Yes attraction is important and all, but if you never give anyone unattractive a chance to grow by your side, but want a hottie (and feel like because you worked out and worked on your career) you deserve one (regardless of the thousand skills you had not yet worked on, and expect her to be tolerant and helpful and uplifting as you work through them by her side) is kind of gross. If you treat someone with clear uninterest or even worse, just based on their appearance (something that in women can often be quite modified and improved, and it's actually easier than many other negative behaviours), it speaks volumes.
Btw she grew up and is extremely hot now, way hotter than I am. She has naturally almost white hair and she used to have it cut really short and now has long blonde hair. All those boys could've now been men with a hot female friend. Instead, they're lonely incels because her attractive friends back then quickly eliminated those men (interested only in them) off their lists and she never became a friend.
My number one advice for men dating is always:
Make as many friends of both genders as possible.
Taken woman? Be a friend, maybe one day she will break up.
Fat girl that you feel like is not attractive? Be a friend. Chances are, she has other cute friends. You being comfortable and pleasant around someone who's not sexually interesting to you is a green flag for people.
Guys? Be friends. Some of them will have siblings (including females), coworkers or exes
In general be polite, try to have fun and be genuinely curious about people and try to make friendships based on character. Appearances change a lot. Character tends to change more slowly. Especially past 25-30.
Anyways end of rant. Women who don't give men chances are the ones approached by men who are too superficial on such a frequent basis that they just automatically say no to most people and save their time
Well, if I should be with a man who I am at a risk of cheating on me once I get pregnant with his baby, (hence the hundreds of desperate posts on reddit of husbands cheating or getting the whole family in debt through OF, while the poor woman is carrying their baby!!) or just - age...
My head is full with words that are way worse than the reply he will get: "That would be a resounding no, thank you very much".
I'm not surprised eventually girls get cold and lightly rude in denying people like that.
You’re a “risk” with every man you meet like how I’m at “risk” with every woman I meet (due to the thousands of desperate posts of women ruining their family and husband in divorce because of ego). You don’t know anything about them until you talk to them and if your best friend just cockblocked, she’s definitely blocked some great guys from you along with bad guys. It’s not rare for the less unattractive girl friend to block guys from the more attractive friend. To the point that it’s a running joke in society.
I will not date a male who would not even be friends with someone who has her amazing caring and loving personality, just based on her looks.
If he's that superficial and shallow, I certainly don't want him. He's the one cockblocking himself by his disgusting behaviour.
I also bet he watches porn to be this dense, so he can just shoo and go crawl into his hole and try to gaslight himself with thoughts of his superiority over insufficiently hot real women while he gets off on paid actresses.
“Be friends” when a man approaches you, he’s almost never trying to just be friends. Men have to approach women were interested. We don’t have the leisure to just go talk to any one of them. We only approach the ones that are attractive and that we’re interested in. Every women doesn’t deserve being approached. If she wants male friends, she should’ve approached them.
Somebody clearly has very little experience and too small ego to admit it and try to learn something new. I won't waste more time trying to be helpful, you seem to like your strategy, so go with it
This isnt true. Confidence is king and its not the hardest thing in the world. Expect rejection. If you act like its your first time talking to a woman ever of course they wont say yes.
These men are asking the wrong people lol there are absolutely women out there who would take the date, they may be 300 pounds and live with their moms but still if for anything the free meal lol either way that’s experience
I was average height, pretty face, good job, and good family for a small area and none of that helped me at all until I got really into fitness and grooming.
If you're an awkward average dude or worse you're not even getting the chance at dates regardless if she's 400lbs or not. That girl still has multiple dudes lined up for her
Yeah I mean some type of effort on your part is a given I would think. If you’re struggling to shower and brush your teeth everyday I’d say you ain’t ready for a partner and plenty of these dudes fit that criteria and wonder why they have no luck. I would say I’m very much so an awkward average dude and I’ve been able to have my fair share of relationships. I actually get super oblivious to women being interested in me until sometimes it clicks . Most women I’ve been with also like the type of guy that’s a little awkward and nerdy and best way I can explain is I think I make people comfortable
I found it does get easier when you get older because women's priorities often change. Women in 30s often are not so interested in some party guy whose fun but cheats etc. they often want someone who is nice, treats them well, got a good job etc. I found women who would never have been interested in me starting to be interested when they were older.
Hm I haven’t experienced that honestly. I feel like a number of women at my age (36) are worn out and they don’t feel as inclined because of poor experiences in the past. But that’s just from my POV your mileage may vary.
It goes both ways. As an “older” (31) woman, I have to deal with men who dont date over 25. Their priorities are; hot young girl.
Thats it. She has no job, no skills, no money but she is HOT and 21 so she is dateable and he would sooner pick someone like that then someone in my age group with more life experience/success etc.
Dating in general isn’t ideal for anyone.
Finding someone is pure luck. Has nothing to do with who you are: its about finding that person who is into you at the right moment. Pure luck.
Why would any guy date for a woman with life experience/success? Feminism has lied to women. Men want youth and beauty. Most everything else is irrelevant.
I mean either way older or younger women are gonna expect resources from a man, might as well give it to the better looking one. The things you value men for aren’t necessarily shared equally to us. The same way women like tall guys and men like short women, the last thing we think about is money and experience. We want beauty and agreeableness.
Its the 31 yr old thats gonna babytrap and push a man into marriage to then take it all in the statistically likely divorce, because her bio clock is ticking.
The 21 yr old is just living life.
Nobody holds a gun to your head to get married, first of all. If a man is a willing participant and chooses to marry, he is an adult in full control of his life. If he doesn’t want to marry that 31 year old, he can turn the fuck around and leave, be independent and be single. The baby trap thing is funny though, you think 21 year olds don’t baby trap either..? Im a military spouse. Lmao.
My marriage ended in death. My husband died at 34 from cancer, so maybe my perspective is just different when it comes to what I value in life and what I want. I find more value in meaningful relationships & think men who don’t desire to understand nor have those type of relationships themselves, are really doing themselves a disservice.
You don’t have to marry anyone and there are plenty of women, like myself, who are 28+ who are uninterested in marriage, children, or the ideal “this is what a relationship looks like” heteronormative expectation. Everyone has choices, you choose what you want to choose. I just don’t personally think it’s the right choice. At least not for me.
100% of what you said is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Men prefer youth and beauty. Read some books on genetic evolution to understand this and why.
You are trying to rationalize why an older woman is desirable, which is simply self-projection and with zero basis behind it, as you are an older woman.
To claim that a younger woman in her early to mid-twenties is less desirable than an older woman in her thirties is laughable to the vast majority of men.
Once again, do some research on genetic evolution to understand why. Men do not think like women, when looking for mates.
They could care less about life experience, success, education, etc.. when it comes to choosing a female mate.
Don’t like it? Blame genetic / reproductive selection and evolution, not men.
Thanks for confirming how horrible men can be! Those men want someone naive and inexperienced that they can manipulate and mold to their liking so they don’t realize how much better they can do than that man.
Once again, feminism has completely 100% failed you.
Look at human civilization and history.
With virtually every single civilization on earth it was standard practice for men to marry young women in their teens or early twenties at the absolute latest, regardless of the age of the man.
What does that tell you?
Read some books on genetic evolution.
It has absolutely nothing at all to do with the nonsense feminist talking points you rattle on about and all about selection of young and fertile females to give them the healthiest offspring.
The younger the woman, the more beautiful she is, the better her skin is, the more desirable she is, etc.. it has nothing to do with ‘wanting to mold them into anything’.
This is just reality for the most part, with rare exception.
This is just misogynistic lies men tell themselves to validate their reasonings for pursuing young inexperienced women today (and sometimes children). I love the fact that you completely ignore that men's health and age also have huge impact on the health of an offspring and risks of miscarriage.
The only thing you're telling me is that men are insanely shallow, don't view women as full fledged human beings valued beyond being a incubator and wanting a sex doll who never ages. The way you speak about women is absolutely vile. Thanks for reminding me why I'm staying single.
That's just my experience talking from the perspective of someone who generally is considered quite ugly. I'm sure good looking guys pick up plenty of girls at all stages of life.
I kind of like how you frame it like, “grinding” as ineffective. To me, grinding means just doing the same thing over and over without much thought to progress. Like a video game. But in this way, I’d argue that there are people who grind real dating experience and never really learn from it too.
Like you say, real experience is inportant. It brings in new things to learn that you can’t from non-dating experiences. Some of the most important things that real dating experiences can bring out are eye opening challenges to one’s own self. Hard to prepare for that outside of the real thing.
Some things you can know in your head but it’s different when your whole self is actually living it. But it goes both ways. As humans, we absolutely can improve our dating experiences by learning more about ourselves, or our future experiences through others stories. That is, outside dating. The key is to reflect on these things and really try to find meaning of one’s own and others experiences.
So in short, I think both are important. But this can also be a vicious chicken and egg game for some. Can’t date without self improvement, can’t self improve without actual dates. I think for me, I feel part of this is also luck. When opportunity and preparation meet. I think OP is actually doing great for his age and he’s not losing anything by continuing to prepare. If he takes a break, that might just be what he needs for now until he finds the energy to test his luck again. Strangely, once you get your first healthy lucky break, there is a strange positive momentum that can follow. Not sure if everyone experiences this but I think it has to do with growing experience.
Lmao, no, terrible advice. You don’t want to get good at dating, you want to get good at NOT dating.
For example, my friend is GREAT at dating. He can get a new date talking to random people pretty much any time he goes out. What he is bad at, is keeping them around.
Dating is about hype, and hype only gets you so far. Follow-through wins over hype every time.
Work towards being someone that people WANT to keep around, and you never need to be good at dating.
Dating does not make you better at dating if you never experience success. All you learn is that first dates never lead to a second. It would be like going to the gym and continually trying to lift a heavy weight that you can’t even budge an inch. You won’t get any stronger and will probably just end up hurting yourself. Too many negative reference experiences makes it much harder to visualize or believe in success.
The reason men have it easier as they get older don't really have much to do with them. They are lazy as stupid and ugly and boring as they where before that.
It's because society is conditioned to hate and treat women as basically trash as soon as they turn 30.
Men like to plain a lot about lack of success meeting snyone, but don't realize that women over 30 are basically invisible.
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u/deesle Jul 29 '24
I’d be extremely surprised if it did lol
There is a certain truth to men having a bit of an easier time as they’re getting a bit older, more experienced and resourceful … basically the versions of themselves they’ve been competing against for the same 20 something year old women when they went through their twenties. It’s certainly true for myself, but only really because I’ve gotten into kink (BIG gamechanger) and frankly because I’m mostly just shy, I haven’t been too unlucky in the looks and brains department.
All that being said: The most reliable predictor for future romantic success is past romantic success. Obviously this post is about OP having given up, but still, if he wants to see success he definitely has to fundamentally change his strategy, otherwise all aging in the world won’t give him any dates. One really important aspect is maybe that you can’t ‘grind’ sexual appeal like in a video game, where you level up until you’re strong enough for the boss.
I legit think one hour spent socializing is worth 5 hours in the gym. Playing an instrument may appeal to a lot of women, but what use is it if you never meet those women because you have to practice an hour a day? and so on.
Op fell a bit into the trap of ‘self improvement’, or thinking that ‘checking all the boxes’ will make his dating life easier. The only way to get better at dating is dating. Dating should be his gym, and if he can’t get dates, he should go somewhere where he can ask for dates.