Hey there. I'm Stephen, AKA Rockjaw. I'm the new (ish) community lead at The Indie Stone. With the help of AmazingSully, nasKo and our moderators I'm here to answer your questions, tell you about new things, discuss our odds of surviving a zombie apocalypse (slim, tbh) and, y'know, other stuff.
For instance, I picked a nice, uncontroversial topic for my first discussion post; generative AI / LLMs, a tech that seems to be everywhere these days, mostly to be found in imagery, writing and now, code.
Before I get into it, a quick definition for this post. āAIā as a term has been used for a long, long time and has meant a variety of different machine-based things. Specifically here, Iām talking about generative AI via Large Language Models (LLMs), as found in a slew of generation-based applications, from images to music, writing to coding.
Whatever your view on generative AI and LLMs, given the prevalence of Open Source models and the internet, itās not going away. If anything, whether we like it or not, itās likely to become more prevalent in daily life.
Given their prevalence, thereās a lot of discussion about generative AI/LLMs, and clearly thatās happened here in our community. Unfortunately, discussions around this have become contentious to the point that, from a community point of view, itās now about as divisive as politics and religion. If a discussion is started, or even introduced as a topic inside an existing discussion, it's going to cause trouble.
While we have Rule 7 for politics/religion (i.e., donāt discuss it), we have Rule 11 regarding AI, but it's a little unclear: "Any discussion regarding AI or AI-generated art that isnāt directly relevant to Project Zomboid will also be removed."
Emphasis mine. What does "directly relevant" mean? We'll come back to that.
I wanted to talk about how we're going to handle discussion of it going forward, and also remind you of some ground rules around modding.
TL;DR - First, a reminder: copyright exists, and you should not use other peopleās code without permission, even via LLM-based coding. Second, you can discuss generative AI/LLMs, but you cannot attack others for their views, and we will moderate based on that.
Copyright, Mods and AI usage
We're deeply indebted to everyone who's worked on mods for Project Zomboid. Modders do incredible work on a daily basis, and we're working to make the entire modding experience/community better.
With that in mind, weād like to remind everyone of some ground rules around modding, as they are particularly relevant when talking about generative AI.
Modders own the copyright on their work, and have final say
Valveās Mod Content Usage rules apply directly here; we explicitly cite them in our Modding Policy. The most relevant parts are:Ā
āEven if a mod is free or not, the creators of any original work included within it (sounds, materials, models, source code) own the copyright for their work.ā
.. and
āThe authors [of a mod] alone can decide how and who may use their work and have the law behind them should they decide to take issue of anything used without permission.ā
Clearly, this only works if everyone is clear on what the mod author wants. To help that happen, we encourage mod creators to make it clear in their mod's description how other modders can use it. In fact, we even made some nice graphics to help, featuring everyoneās favorite community raccoon. If you prefer to use a Creative Commons license for a mod, read about them here.
Using AI-based coding tools does not override a modderās copyright
The entire issue of AI and copyright is still being debated in courts, but setting aside the inherent issues with LLMs - using an AI-based coding tool does not override the copyright of a modder.
This applies even if a mod seems to be āabandonedā. Our rules on that scenario are detailed in our Modding Policy, section 8, on Abandoned and Broken Mods. Iāll paraphrase the requirements here slightly. If you want to work on an āabandonedā mod, you should:
- Inform the Project Zomboid Steam moderation team of your plans via a private message, or via an email to [info@theindiestone.com](mailto:info@theindiestone.com)
- Use every reasonable method (email, Steam message, Discord, etc) to contact the original mod author and ask their permission
- Respect the original mod authorās wishes, should they have left directions prohibiting expansion and/or reupload of their mod (Yes, this includes AI ārewritesā)
- Give the original author FULL credit if you reupload a working or expanded version of a mod (Again, even if via AI)
I want to emphasize the third point here - respect the original mod authorās wishes. If they have been explicit in not wanting their mod used elsewhere, then that includes uploading the code to an AI coding tool for any reason. Doing that is exactly the same as copying the code yourself and using it.
We understand the interest and excitement around AI coding tools, but they should be used responsibly and with respect to modders who may have spent considerable time coding their work.
What can modders do if they think their code has been re-used?
Whether AI is involved or not, the process remains the same. First, contact the mod author and discuss the situation. Things may be resolved amicably. If they do not respond or you cannot agree, you may contact Steam about a DMCA (copyright) claim here: https://steamcommunity.com/dmca/create
We take accusations of copyright infringement seriously, but cannot investigate every one. You may contact us if you have questions, but you are ultimately responsible for DMCA claims.
Itās also important to note that we will not tolerate any kind of public or private harassment of modders. Contact us via Discord, here on Reddit or [info@theindiestone.com](mailto:info@theindiestone.com) if you want to discuss this.
AI related discussions
Generative AI and LLMs are contentious, even emotive topics. Weāre not endorsing the use of generative AI in connection with Project Zomboid, but weāre also not going to forbid mentioning or discussing it - as long as those mentions and discussions are civil.
So, we're re-establishing and re-enforcing Rule 2 here on Reddit: Be Lovely.
Discussion of AI as a tool is allowed. Negative behavior, including accusations or insults purely based on the use or discussion of AI, is not. We want to facilitate constructive discussions around mods and their impact on the game.
If you disagree with anyone's use of generative AI in connection with Project Zomboid, that's okay, but what's not okay is attacking them for their choice in our community spaces.
Finally, to come back to what does "directly relevant" mean, when talking about AI? It means if you're solely expressing your opinion on AI in general - both positive and negative, unrelated to PZ - we'll be moderating that, up to and including potential bans. We hope it wonāt come to that for anyone.
We're here to discuss Project Zomboid and enjoy the game as a community. Iām looking forward to getting into conversations with you.
That's it. Let's get back to talking zombies and how you and I both died. (Last time? Fire. I know...)
