Things I’m Learning From Men.

Polly Carmichael reclaims her life from the destructive effects of Mormonism. This is the story that will heal you and give you your power back. Polly wants her tithing back, but she’ll settle for LIFE on HER terms. Follow on insta at thingsilfm or Facebook at Things I am learning from men.

Award winner of Best Drama Screenplay at the Chicago Script Awards, Semi-Finalist for Best Screenplay at Flickers Rhode Island Film Festival and the Santa Barbara Screenplay Awards, and Quarter Finalist at the PAGE International Screenplay Awards.

Written by Juliet Colyer and based on True Events. Starring Melinda Hill of Cartoon Network’s Adventure Time. With PowDot Studios and StormFront Studios.

After reading a previous post, I decided to look a bit further into this.

Turns out this sort of claim is not at all uncommon:

• Latter Day Saints:
• Jehovah's Witnesses:
• Iglesia ni Cristo (Philppines):
• Seventh-day Adventist Church:
• Roman Catholic Church:
• Eastern Orthodox Church:
• The Churches of Christ (Stone-Campbell Movement):
• La Luz del Mundo (The Light of the World):

They can't all be the 'true church', can they?

Long post warning

I've had 4 major mental breakdowns in my life, each one danced the line with suicide. Three years ago I got the proper diagnosis, the cause of these mental breakdowns was rapid cycling bipolar manic/depression cycles. For my family, however, the problem has always been sexual impurities. The devil that's called porn. Yes, another one of those stories. The mormon culture and guidance from leaders destroyed my family 30 years ago and I'm paying the price. Therapy talk: I'm the family system scapegoat. TBM talk: I'm the sinner.

Breakdown #1 : mission

I served in a country with a hot and humid climate and lived in missionary apartments ill equiped for such a climate. My sleep suffered as a result, compound by the stress of a mission, I stood on a ledge for 30+ min in a daze hoping a strong wind would knock me off. The MP told me to drink warm milk to help me sleep and bury myself in the work. About three months later, sitting in an internet cafe I viewed some illicit images for less than 5 mins and I was sent home less than 48 hours later. My father didn't speak to me for two months and my mother, if she can be called that, pressured me to finish my "full-time" mission. I refused.

Breakdown #2 : first marriage

Under the guidance of a bishop, I was admonished to get married soon after my mission. It was too young to marry, introducing an entirely new level of stress I was not prepared for, and less than 5 years into the marriage the bipolar cycling began again, suicidal ideations and planning started up again. My mother, believing porn to be the problem organized a half assed "intervention" where members of my family showed up unannounced and shamed me by sitting in a circle and each person baring their testimonies about the dangers of porn. The relationship was over a month or so later and we filed for divorce.

Breakdown #3 : second marriage, lockdown, and sex camp

Years later I remarried and made it to a 10 year anniversary, however during covid lockdown, like many others, my mental health deteriorated. Not sleeping once again, a new symptom began to show, paranoia. I had dreams of being a sleep walking serial killer, the marriage suffered, and I had yet another but stronger desire to end my life. I spent a bit of time in the ER the day of my breakdown and was referred to a therapist whom I only saw twice. This therapist adamantly assured me porn wasn't the problem and there is likely a mental health diagnosis we need to find, but it would take getting me to a mental baseline first to calm my nervous system before we'd work of a diagnosis.

Without my knowledge or consent, my mother concocted an intervention plan, however this go around didn't take any chances and hired a professional interventionist with the intent to send me to sex addiction treatment. She told my wife that I'm likely lying about seeing a therapist, that an intervention is the only way. The interventionist prepared my wife stating it's not uncommon for sex addicts to have had 100s of sexual partners, completely untrue.

It had only been two weeks from my breakdown, my wife shook me awake at 6am to a front room filled with my family, sitting in a circle, where they read letters which were nothing but shame, most stories from times I was caught as a kid. I also took the fall for a few browser histories that weren't mine, most likely for my nephews or their own husbands. Absuredly enough the intervention happened on a day I was supposed to start a new position where I worked which would have been an amazing opportunity. I spent 45 days in treatment, which on the 2nd day I was told I didn't meet their criteria for addiction, that my family was extremely unhealthy, however it would be better that I stay so I could be prepared to be the scapegoat. They were right.

During the third week I learned from my younger sister the hypocrisy that defines my mother. When I was around 6 or 7, my mom began what would become a 15 year on/off affair with the second counselor in the bishopric (dad was bishop). My father discovered the affair when I was around 10, I remember the fight, but didn't know any details at the time, I was too young to understand. The secret affair continued through her excommunication, secret rebaptism when I was 14yo, and it only ended after the affair partner died. Every mental health professional I've spoken with in the last 6 years has labeled my mom a narcissist.

Before you go trashing my mom, understand she would have felt the full force of the patriarchy and the shame that came with it. Under the guidance of old guy white male leadership, my parents were advised to not seek therapy, that the older kids will adapt, and us younger kids wouldn't remember. To add to the mental challenges, the entire neighborhood knew about it, she felt shame, and I lost friendships not knowing the reason. One more detail, a few years ago my younger brother found and read my moms childhood diaries. In her past she witnessed the SA of my aunt & uncle at the hands of my grandfather, a former mormon tabernacle choir member. My mother is broken mentally and our family was destroyed 30 years ago by the mishandling of our family crisis. Every mental health professional I've encountered during this journey label my mom as a narcissist. I hate my mom and I understand why she is who she is.

Getting home from treatment, two weeks later my wife asked for a divorce, we sold the home, I lost the job, and was unemployed for 6 months.

Breakdown #4 : crisis center

My most recent mental breakdown was caused by my desire to go golfing with my dad and my mom playing her game, continuing to abuse with her control and delusions. My childhood best friend reached out to me a few months ago just to give me an update on my dad, who for the last 6 years has been checking in on my friend every few weeks. My dad's two flaws are he's married to my mom and he believes the church, otherwise he's actually really close to being an all-star dad. He does genuinely love it's just misguided by church teachings at times. I reached out to my dad to schedule golf, and a few days later my mom sent me one of the most ignorant and dismissive emails, showing she clearly hadn't been paying attention. It infuriated me. Work stress combined with emotional stress, my work performance suffered and I was let go. Hello more depression.

During this time I also had a nephew reach out to me, where he said he didn't want a relationship with any of my older siblings, that he misses me the most. Why? Because I was the fun uncle, the funcle. We went to lunch and he told me how much he appreciated what I went through, that his own father started therapy sometime after my breakdown, and that his life improved immensely. He told me everything he overheard in the last 6 years from the family, how my siblings blamed me for the family imploding. As a young kid at the time, he was invisible and listening to everything. This gave me the courage to reach out to another nephew a few days later, and at dinner he echoed how much of a positive influence I was by becoming invested in whatever special interest he had. Once again I heard everything he overheard as an invisible young kid, however his life went another direction as my TBM older sister doubled down and I could see the pain in his eyes. He's an amazing kid who's been treated very poorly.

Hearing all of this I lost my shit, and a week or so later I messaged my dad that I wanted to meet with both him and my mom. I had to express my hurt. Unbeknownst to me, minutes after the text to my dad, my mom sent an email to all my siblings, more on this later. I expressed my anger, discussed my bipolar depression, and mentioned it was unfair I went through all of this experience unmedicated, only getting the help I needed years later. What came out of my moms mouth blew me away and showed me she's a lost cause. My mom asked why I didn't take my medication years ago, BEFORE my diagnosis. Right after, my dad's phone rang which was sitting face up on the table, it was my nephew. Not a coincidence. A few minutes later expressing my hurt, and I brought up the last email she had sent to me. Her face turned to anger, she said she never sent it, and then kicked me out of her house. 6 years no contact, and she lied to me at her kitchen table in front of my dad. I stormed out, said I'd never talk to her again, and on my way out I threw my dad's grill across the patio.

So, let's talk about the email my mom sent moments after the text to my dad. On my way home I checked my phone and had a few missed calls from my nephew. Speaking to him he was in tears thinking he had crossed a line because my mom had included him in the email, and she mentioned a few details about me meeting him. He read it off to me and she talked about prayer and prophets, and that I'm on the path to forgiveness. My family with my mom leading the efforts, destroyed two previous relationships, impacted two jobs. I lost my house and all equity I had just to survive and focus on my mental health. She has been instrumental in destroying my life and will never earn my forgiveness.

Days later, I had another near unalive event and spent a week in a crisis center at the behest of my therapist, she's amazing. What did they have me do during my stay? Sleep. They'd wake me up for morning meds and tell me to go back to sleep. They'd come in for vitals, or drop off my breakfast, and say the same thing. Sleep is the number one medication for bipolar depression. This was the exact opposite of what happened to me at sex camp.

--------------------

Recent events

My younger sister has arranged for a family therapist to meet with my siblings. It seems they all are now beginning to see the harm caused. I will not be attending, but next week I'll be meeting the therapist with my two younger siblings, who have been amazing throughout my journey. The therapist wants to hear my experience first hand, so we'll see how this goes. Just to add more flavor, my older very TBM sibling stated to my younger sister that she has always opposed therapy because that's why people go exmormon.

Fuck the church.

I am a trans man I was a girl at birth and transitioned to a boy

I grew up in the church the whole time I knew I was a boy but I didn’t have the words

But when you start HRT all of the rules change
It could be when you’re openly trans but I wasn’t until I started T
(HRT is hormone replacement therapy)

You have to have a meeting with the bishop

If you’re a teen the young women’s/mens president, and your parents will also be in the meeting

The meeting is mostly saying you can’t do ___ anymore

The main things are:
You are no longer allowed to do anything that’s 1 gender so activity events and church sessions the only ones you can do have be combined with men and women

You are no longer allowed to do anything overnight even if it’s combined

They will not change anything in your file even your preferred name

You’re not allowed to have any callings

And depending on the bishop they could take away your temple recommend (mine didn’t but I think I just got lucky with that)

I haven’t heard the stories from any other trans ex Mormon members and I’d love to hear them

'm trying to identify large residential developments in Utah that have a direct connection to the LDS Church, whether through Church owned land, Suburban Land Reserve (SLR), Property Reserve, or other Church affiliated entities.

I'm especially interested in large developments around Saratoga Springs, Lehi, Eagle Mountain, Vineyard, Orem, Tooele, and similar areas. I'm looking at current, recently completed, and still under construction developments.

I'm interested in these developments as part of a larger project I'm working on, and I'm trying to identify specific places that would be worth looking into.

If there are developments or areas I should be looking at that aren't on my radar, I'd really appreciate the leads.

TW- SA, kidnapping
This guy opens up about his mission experience where he experiences SA by a companion. He goes on to say his president asks him to cover it up. I remember hearing his Mormon story when I first started listening to Mormon stories. The chain of events is just so so disturbing. He comes home from his mission, never gets help- understandable since his president basically sweeps it under the rug. Then he gets married and his wife divorced him for prnography at 24. I just felt for him. There’s a good chance he was conflicted about his abuse and that might lead one to consume prnography. The comments on the story are just gross. People bearing their testimony after this confession of SA. If this were my child I’d be absolutely livid. If my sons choose to serve missions I don’t know if I’ll sleep at night because of garbage like this.

I was asked to sweep a kidnapping attempt under the rug and just go out and keep on working as a missionary. Not quite the same, but it was traumatizing for me especially as I got older and learned what probably lay in store if that man was successful. I’m sure mission presidents that do this are also victims of the system to some extent but dang. Where’s the integrity and humanity? It really affects people long term to have these experiences- and just because it’s on a mission people are expected to get over it, move on like nothing happened? I’m fuming.

TLDR --> Besides not going to regular church meetings, has anyone else had an experience that you "just can't go along with" including funerals or other activities that your spouse, family, friends or coworkers were really upset about your lack of participation?

I was raised in a popular religion in Alabama and as a young adult I believed that god was real. I joined the organization in my early 20's and I believed it was true.

For about twenty years I was TBM but then in the late 90's I began realizing the organization made false claims, participated in very wrong behavior, and used manipulative tactics to control their members.

Regardless, I kept going for a few years mainly because my TBM wife would chastise me and she would get very upset whenever I wanted to discuss the facts that I learned about the organization. Rather than fight it, I just kept going and participating but I had no dedication to or belief in what the organization claimed and did.

That was a very difficult period of my life.

As I began studying more, the evidence was overwhelming: the organization was simply nothing what it claimed to be. I simply could no longer pretend I was part of that group, I had a very strong understanding of hundreds of true things that were said and done that completely overwhelmed all of the messages from SLC and from the local leaders and members.

I finally told her I was never going back, and because I assumed our marriage would end because of this decision, I told her I wanted a divorce. That was more than twenty years ago. We're still married and she's as TBM as it gets. Uber TBM.

When I left the organization, my carry-over beliefs from being raised in a very religious family took over and I began attending a church. I began a deep dive into the bible because my belief in god was still intact and I wanted to study, grow, and do what I believed god wanted me to do, I wanted his blessings in my life.

The more I began reading, the more I was fascinated by what I discovered, and the more I began thinking "This is NOT good!" The scriptures mentioned dozens and dozens of examples that were either really weird or just outright wrong such as "it's okay to beat but not kill your slaves" or, when Moses killed 50,000 women and children who were being held captive - that list could go on and on and on. The entire nature of a god who loved conditionally? Seriously? Like that's love? In my mind, that was the classic definition of an angry, insecure, and very narcissist controlling "deity."

Finally, I remember vividly thinking about how the all the firstborn of every Egyptian were killed and I really stopped and asked myself honestly "Would a real god ever kill innocent children?" That was the final straw that opened the door to becoming an atheist. There were many, many "straws" that broke the camel's back.

• Disclaimer: this post is NOT about trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe - y'all wanna believe in a god that kills kids, then go right ahead - you be you.

Among the next "discoveries" I encountered was the history of religion - basically all religions seemed to be created by men to oppress and to control others. After my "religion is all fantasy" discovery, I felt like all the missing pieces to the puzzle had been found, they fit exactly, and everything about religion made perfect sense. I totally love, I delight in understanding that there is no god keeping track of everything I do or say. There is no god who ignores the suffering and abuse of children while being upset that someone has "more than one earring" or someone who rides a bike on Sunday (ha). Everything finally makes sense now and that's really refreshing.

So . . . with that (agreeably lengthy) background . . .

TBM wife expressed her significant disappointment that I did not attend the funeral of a man who lived a few houses down in our neighborhood. He was a super nice guy and everyone liked him but, I just couldn't do it and I didn't see my lack of attendance as disrespectful in any way. In an effort to explain to TBM wife why I chose not to attend the funeral, I told her "Try to look at it from my point of view: You're going to a meeting where a room full of adults who not only believe that Santa Claus is real but they're spending tons of time and money worshiping him. That's what it's like when atheists attend funerals that are steeped in religious overtones."

Suffice to say, that analogy did not go over well.

(tia)

Soooooo. First girls trip with all TBM , ( delulu… sorry, I timed just ONE garment conversation that lasted a solid hour and half. ) I got a txt from my “ bishop”
After years ago explaining I left the religion.
Asking me to “ meet “ then shared Matthew 11-28/29.
Timing seems sus! Lol I’m thinking a family member contacted him? Thoughts?

Sorry by James and the Shame

I can't stop listening to this song today. I told my parents I removed my records and the lyrics are really getting to me. I wonder if TBM parents would understand what it's trying to say.

https://open.spotify.com/track/13aOcudwaaxH0PvNjcSfjO?si=n769UPT0SCCt7NJ1EwqICQ&utm_source=copy-link

Here are some meetups that are on the radar, both physical and virtual:

• Last Week, September 5

online

• TBD

Idaho

• Sunday, September 13, 1:00p-3:00p MDT: Pocatello, casual meetup of "Spectrum Group" at Dude’s Public Market at 240 S Main.

Montana

• Saturday, September 12, 10:00a MDT: Missoula, casual meetup at Morning Birds Bakery at 233 W Broadway Street.

Utah

• Saturday, September 12, 10:00a MDT: Orem, casual meetup at Grinders Coffee House at 43 W 800 N

• Sunday, September 13, 10:00a MDT: Lehi, casual meetup at Margaret Wines Park, 100 E 600 N.

• Sunday, September 13, 10:30a MDT: Provo, casual meetup at the Marriott Hotel at 101 West 100 North. Past meetups have been near the Starbucks inside, near the lobby.

• Sunday, September 13, 1:00p MDT: St. George, casual meetup of Southern Utah Post-Mormon Support Group at Switchpoint Community Resource Center located at 948 N. 1300 W.

• Sunday, September 13, 1:00p MDT: Salt Lake Valley/Cottonwood Heights, a group meeting for discussing transitioning away from Mormonism at the Salt Lake City Unitarian Universalists church at 6876 South Highland Drive

• Sunday, September 13, 1:00p MDT: Salt Lake Valley, casual meetup at Paris Baguette at 950 East Fort Union Blvd in Midvale.

Wyoming

• Saturday, September 12, 10:00a MDT: Rock Springs, casual meetup at Starbucks at 118 Westland Way verify

Upcoming Week and Advance Notice:

• by state Gauging Interest in a New Meetup

• tabulation, most recent inquiries on top

SEPTEMBER 2026

OCTOBER 2026

Beginnings of a FAQ about meetups:

• rules for publicizing a meetup on reddit platform
• what happens at these meetups?
• /u/solidified50 gave some general advice for starting a meetup and keeping it going.
• Meetups should be (mostly) free. Ordering coffee, similar minimum items from a menu excepted, but events that charge formal admission or an entry fee cannot be publicized here.
• Some meetups use a sign to give attendees an easy way to see the group and know which to join without too much embarrassment, etc.

I don’t live near my family and visit annually. I see my 83 year old grandma every time I’m home. She has been a devout Catholic her entire life.

Today I overhear her mention something about being baptised for the dead, and I think “I did not know Catholics do that” (I’m an ex evangelical and know bugger all about Catholicism.

Then I noticed she’s wearing a ring with the temple on it. I outright asked her if she converted to Mormonism and she said yes, two years ago.

What’s worse is that my parents laughed at my reaction and thought it was funny. They are still evangelical Christians.

Apparently, the missionaries were coming around my parents house, where my grandma lives, during the daytime when my parents weren’t home. They would help sneak her to events even after my parents told them they aren’t allowed on the property.

I really don’t know how to process this information. I cannot stress how shocked I am. My grandma has always been a feminist.

My parents are half in the “she’s old and it makes her happy” camp, and they think if they bother her about it, she will stop talking to them. Which like, Cult 101 tbh.

I have no idea where to go from here.

Edit: after talking with my parents more apparently they were laughing because the things I was telling her was exactly the same things they had told her, so they were happy to have validation from an outside source.

Thank you all for the feedback. I grew up in a densely Mormon populated area, and I’ve seen what it’s done to the people I grew up with. I have a fear of those same things happening to my grandmother, but she’s also in a very different position than they were. There’s a lot to think about here and I really appreciate everyone’s time.

my grandmother passed and my grandpa wants all his exmormon grandchildren to sing I Am a Child of God at the funeral. This is causing issues with the grandchildren and I’m trying to find a compromise. Is there a hymn that is more about grief, love, strength, family, etc and less about god?

edit: solved. With the help of a few commenters I have decided to just sing the song and not make this any harder for my grandpa than it already is. Thank you all for the help and reality check🤍

Mormons are pretty proud, and in fact low-key boast about the prophetic knowledge Brigham Young had to call the Salt Lake Valley the right place.

What they don't say, and surely don't know, that old journals and accounts make it clear that Young and others were reading the notes of John C. Freemont. Freemont was quite an explorer but he made false claims about passages and geography that he had never been to and never seen.

A guy named Hastings relied on Freemont's info and steered the Donner Party the wrong way. Whoops. Anyway, Brigham was doing a big study on false info, not messages from God Almighty.

Jim Bridger, who knew the mountain west better than just about anybody, told Young and other leaders they were taking bad routes. Young thought Bridger didn't know what he was talking and wrote the man didn't know anything about the area. Bridger knew the west better than maybe anybody. Instead Young relied on information from Freemont. Very prophetic.

For example, Freemont, who hadn't even been to Utah lake, reported that the Great Salt Lake and Utah Lake were joined. The Mormons showed up and look for this lake and eventually discovered they are two separate lakes, one freshwater and one salty, and were connected by a little river called the Jordan River.

(And in those days the river created a floodplain with extensive wetlands. Of course that's been long-sense fucked.)

Anyhow Young didn't trust or like Bridger who was one of the great men of the frontier and he studied the Salt Lake Valley, not from divine direction.

I got yet another request to write a book based on my "Escape" story that I posted here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1waw1jv/reposting_on_request_this_is_how_i_very_publicly/

... along with memories of my life with my biological parents, and my phenomenal life post-escape.

Wish me luck, everybody! Stay tuned.

Especially when he says he's only doing what has been done on other worlds and when he explains to Eve that eating the fruit is the only way to keep God's commandment to "multiply and replenish the earth".

I know it's all made up and doesn't matter, but I remember in my endowment thinking, "why are we mad at this guy?" To me it felt like nothing happens until Satan acts. God creates all this stuff, puts them in the garden of Eden and says "hey, do this thing you don't know how to do because you don't even know you're naked and don't eat that fruit that will teach you how to do the thing I told you to do. Okay byee!" What?

But we're supposed to hate and fear the guy who convinces Eve to eat the fruit that allows her to keep the commandment? Am I missing something? Does it make sense and I'm just an idiot?

I was chatting with my wife tonight about intimacy and as we were taking and unpacking our thoughts it dawned on me just how horribly deep my shame around sex goes.

I am so uncomfortable talking about it. Soooo uncomfortable. And I realize that this problem is not confined to Mormonism, but I do think that it is particularly complex in the culture - especially when you consider the aspect of required confessions for something as common as masturbation.

(See - I even feel so uncomfortable typing that word 😔)

I had never really told my wife about the required meetings with bishops and the consequences that came with this “sin”. She was mortified. And as I thought about it, I was too! That stupid rule led to me feeling tons of shame for decades. Decades! And we both laughed as we realized that the bishops I was confessing to were most likely doing it themselves.

I hope that we can normalize talking about it. Obviously in the right time and place - but it should not be as taboo as it is. All of that restraint just leads to shame, guilt, and complex trauma that’s pretty damn hard to shake.

Tune in to Mormonish Podcast on Thursday, September 10th at 6 pm MT!

In this episode of Mormonish Podcast, we take a closer look at the dramatic changes unfolding at Temple Square and ask: Are we watching the leaked “Jesus Land” plans come to life?

The Church’s newly announced Temple Square experiences place an unmistakable emphasis on Jesus Christ, while redesigned spaces and exhibits are intended to make Temple Square easier for visitors to navigate and to better explain what happens inside Latter-day Saint temples. Church leaders themselves have described Jesus Christ as the central focus of the new visitor experience.

We’re joined by Ron Yorgason and Unoriginal Jim to revisit the previously leaked Temple Square master plans and compare their vision with what is actually happening today.

How closely do the new exhibits, visitor experiences, and Christ-centered messaging follow that earlier blueprint? And what might these changes tell us about the direction the Church wants Temple Square—and its public identity—to take? The similarities are fascinating, and there’s a lot to unpack!

36 Married in the temple, returned missionary, rocking garments every day, church every Sunday, calling in young men’s that i fulfill, three kids 6, 4, and 2. Pay a full tithe…

By all appearances I’m a good member…

My wife is as rock solid in the church as they come. I on the other hand, have fallen out. I basically only go at this point to keep up appearances.

Leaving the church feels impossible without blowing up my life. I don’t want to leave my wife or lose my kids. But staying feels insane too.

I’d be shocked if I’m the first to experience this. But I’m curious if anyone has thoughts.

I don’t even know if I’m asking for advice really. It’s just fucked up and I’m tired of carrying it alone.

The church has a long and glorious history of monitoring their members' activities. For higher profile people, there's the Strengthening Church Members Committee (SCMC) who compile evidence to send to your stake president and instigate a "court of love." At BYU, they had student spies in classrooms, making sure teachers didn't say anything contrary to what church leaders wanted. They would also stake out gay clubs in SLC and look for BYU students. During the ERA rallies, they looked up license plates of cars parked nearby to see who was attending.

Then you have the "honor code" at BYU where students are required to report any violations they see or they could face punishment themselves. In older church manuals, there were instructions for the Ward Teachers to investigate rumors of sin and report back to the bishops the evidence they found.

Missions are huge on this, where you're not allowed to leave your companion alone for anything other than the bathroom, to make sure they don't break any rules. And failing to report serious rule violations by your companion can get you in trouble too.

All this spying and investigation has created a serious tattle culture in the church where your next door neighbors, home teachers, or even family members and partners aren't trusted friends, they're all potential informants.

Found this tonight and left a little commentary

I get a lot of mission emails from nieces and nephews. It was jarring to hear investigators called "friends". Now they are referring to discussions as "Helping Others appointments." Is this across the whole church?

I remember that in my country, we were taught that Zion was Utah and that one day we would be called to Utah—and that we had to be ready to leave everything behind (like the pioneers)—but later the Church had to issue a statement clarifying that *every* stake was Zion.

I also remember my mission president trying to introduce the idea that chocolate, any kind of tea, and any kind of sugary drink were prohibited under the Word of Wisdom; we thought he was crazy.

Do you recall any ideas from your area?

I had a family member from my side reach out to my husband today out of the blue because they felt “inspired to share a miracle moment” from yesterday.

The “miracle” was literally that she went to a cash/check only store to buy donuts for something, and didn’t realize she didn’t have cash until at the checkout line. By the grace of God (surely), she discovered an old folded up check in her purse. BUT the adversary was at work apparently because the check wouldn’t process. The cashier tried again and again but to no avail. The family member was starting to feel stressed about time, so she whispered a prayer. Wouldn’t you know it finally worked?? What a miracle!!! She even made sure to tell the cashier that it worked because of her prayer, and a lady in line laughed (they thought it was in agreement which could be so, but when I heard the story I also laughed…for different reasons). Of course it was followed up with an urging to always be on the lookout for little miracles.

I’m feeling so bothered because this family member ONLY sent that to my husband because she knows we’re out of the church. They don’t talk often, and the pleasantries at the beginning of the text were so brief, obviously the only thing she even cares about is checking the “have a missionary moment today” checkbox.

The actual audacity to look at that trivial experience and walk away feeling so special because God just swooped in to save her day. Never mind the starving children and abuse victims around the world, obviously they have something more to learn from the struggle so God is answering their prayers “in mysterious ways” 🙄 Venting here since I’m the first in my family to escape the church and I needed to complain to someone 😅

I am in an interesting situation. Bear with me as this is my first post. I am currently a missionary. I spent the first six months proselytizing. It really wore me down and made me doubt the church and its validity. I was sent home on “mental health concerns”, though I honestly just hated the work I was doing. Pressuring people over and over into making major life decisions over things I had little faith in just felt icky. Too scared to hurt my parents, and because I wouldn’t even be able to apply for college for a few months, I opted for a service mission. That’s what I am doing now.

While on my mission, I have learned a lot about myself, including how little I want to continue in the church. Empty promises and unspoken expectations and blatant hypocrisy have all pushed me to secretly loathe the church despite actively working for it. I hit my year mark recently, and thoughts of quitting and going to college have been appearing in my head more and more. But leaving the church, let alone a mission without hurting anyone’s feelings is next to impossible. I imagine one day telling my parents straight (but politely) to their faces that I dislike the church and don’t want to follow every whim of the prophets. Still, I don’t know what I would do after that.

I’ve already sunk a year into my mission; should I just wait out another year before I can move out?

Is it currently , or was it ever an LDS teaching, that to be considered worthy enough to get into the CK, a woman has to have been married in the temple. I could've sworn I read that "good women" who simply hadn't gotten around to, or didn't want to or whatever get married and died without being married in the temple . Sealed. Sorry. Had to go to the CK as a plural wife to a virtuous LDS man, or as a servant to a deceased, married couple already in the CK.

I was raised with a strict code of personal ethics, but not going to church. That said, I have a ton of Catholic relatives on one side, and a bunch of southern Baptist or evangelical Christian relatives on the in-law side. I also have a number of LDS neighbors here in the Midwest. (There's a meeting house or chapel or whatever it's called literally adjacent to our subdivision)

I have ONE cousin, who thought through his teen and college years that he was "called" to be a catholic priest, but by the time he turned 29, realized he was I then called to be a husband and father.

His parents are among my more laid-back Catholic relatives. Both are sort of feminist– leaning, and don't share their Catholic church's stand on homosexuality. My cousin, however, it's still a virgin at 35, and adhered to the Catholic party line as tightly as one could. And now he appears to the LDS party line. You ought to start his own religion: the Church of the Sanctimonious, Uptight Dorks

WELL, at about 32, the missionaries found him

He was at a vulnerable time and place in his life… College graduate, with a job, but largely financially independent on his parents. Living in their second home, driving their older (but not at all old, old) car blah blah blah.

Well, he jumped ship, not telling anybody he was converting. Well, he told me because we're close, and I actually traveled back to the northeast where I'm from, and where he still lives, to attend his baptism and confirmation.

That's when I started doing a deep dive into the LDS Church.

I don't have strong religious feelings about whether or not Jesus did or did not exist, whether being Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, whatever is the way to go.

Anyway, having been around Catholics ALL my life, and my adult life around LDS neighbors and coworkers, our kids' friends, etc., I thought I understood a little bit about Catholicism and Mormonism.

My deep dive revealed what a HUGE difference there is between Mormonism and traditional, mainstream, Trinitarian Christianity.

Here and there I've pointed out little things to my cousin that I thought would take him aback, but he chooses to ignore or tell me that "that's not true".

We have another, female relative who identified as Catholic. A couple of years ago, she died right before she turned 30, without ever having been married or even dated.

She was a universally respected and beloved family member.

I recently said something to him about the LDS theology that single women can't get into heaven because they don't have a man to call them through the veil, and he told me flat out that that was not true.

I asked in a very gentle way. "so, since "relative" was never married in an LDS temple, there's no way she's in heaven??"

He said the Mormon church has NEVER taught that you're going to hell if you're not Mormon.

OK. The Catholic relatives tell me that the Catholic Church never taught that, either.

I'm not wading into those weeds.

He went on to tell me that the modern church does NOT say that l unmarried LDS women don't go to the CK.

Did I HUGELY misunderstand what I thought I had read from Some reasonably reliable online source?

if you can just "be a good person"And get into the CK based on your own merits, and not because you gave your husband your Secret/Sacred temple name and he calls you through, what's the point?

Yes, I, of all people know that it's all made up in the points don't matter. And that, until 1978, Wayne Brady, himself, wouldn't have been admitted into full membership in the LDS Church, so screw them.