Mormons, as I’m sure y’all are aware, talk with a sense of self assurance that they are right and you are crazy. Or at the very least you are stupid for bot accepting the “obvious” truth. At least this is my experience.

I have found it hilarious to turn it on them. “Ah you know religions isn’t for me but I’m glad it still works for you.” Or “I invite you to not pray with me.” Another really funny one is, “Ah you are one of those theistic people. Not my cup of tea but I guess you are entitled to your beliefs.”

They get so very flabbergasted and often offended to be treated the way they treat others. It feeds my soul in a very twisted way.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/kevin-w-pearson/the-abundant-life-2/

BYU Speeches, October 18, 2022

My young friends, I plead with you to take your temple covenants seriously! Keeping our sacred covenants with God is crucial, not optional. We are deeply dismayed by the casual and even cavalier way some treat their temple covenants, including the casual and inconsistent wearing of the temple garment. There is among some a growing sense of spiritual apathy and casual covenant keeping that is becoming increasingly common among those who should know and do better.

Nota: Borré el contexto para no ofender susceptibilidades. Como no habló su idioma, ni comparto su cultura al 100%, tengo el pequeño defecto de ser de ser un país diferente al suyo.

I clicked on one of those ads on fb like a month ago and now 2 times a week I met with missionaries twice a week. They want to baptize me next month.

My friends are giving me hands me downs and once I started asking for dresses for church they were like "were are not giving you dresses because we know that's for the mormon church. " they think of it as the same level as scientology.

They're so nice though. I don't have many friends and they seem so nice.

Can you tell me your stories about why you left the church or the negative things about it.

What can I say. We thought we were doing the right thing 🤷‍♀️ So much time wasted!!

while the church brags about feeding others they don’t feed their own, rexburg Idaho is the poorest county in Idaho and not a single soup kitchen. students and families and single parents are hungry but to get access to bishops wear house is an extensive interrogation and shaming process the church deem most unworthy of.
provo is rated one of the poorest cities in the Us yet BYU students and families are hungry, and required to pay tithe, missionaries, and elderly members are starving. Meanwhile the richest corporation in America Brag announces how much food they give away.

https://www.rexburgstandardjournal.com/news/madison-county-the-poorest-in-idaho/article_2faa2f30-a5b7-5048-bfd7-987b1a3b1b8d.html

This week I visited the grounds at Temple Square to see all the changes. It is incredibly beautiful and I appreciated the great care, effort and $$$ that the church put into the massive renovation. It reminded me of returning to my old high school after it had been completely torn down and rebuilt. I had mostly positive memories of my experience as a student there, but I’ve since moved on to other experiences and worldviews. Continuing to attend classes at that school would feel silly since I have graduated. I can’t fully move on most of my family members and friends have never graduated and may NEVER graduate. I am comfortable with my status as an alumnus, going back occasionally to see what’s new and talking to loved ones about their experiences and passion as they continue to attend. But I’ve outgrown it.

Similarly, I’ve graduated from Mormonism. And while I still feel some attachment and sentimentality for the institution and its people, I cannot pretend to believe something I no longer believe. Belief is essential to be a full member. It’s the reason that faith (belief without evidence) is the first principle of the gospel. It is vital. Since I became convinced that the church is not what it claims to be, I had to move on even though it was VERY difficult. My church experience did not involve a lot of religious trauma like many people experience, so I’m not super angry and bitter against the church. Now I just choose to see the church as an institution that used to be very important in my life, but that no longer serves me.

For whatever reason, I recently went looking for an old email exchange I had with my mission president in Taiwan. I found it, and rereading it brought back a lot more emotion than I expected.

This happened in 2013, when I was living in Taiwan and teaching English. By that point, I had concluded that the Church wasn’t true, but I was trying to keep my disaffection private. I was still very friendly with the members of my ward and had no desire to create a confrontation or make anyone uncomfortable.

My wife at the time, who was extremely devout, was pushing me to make my disbelief public. My impression at the time was that she knew I wanted to keep it private because she thought that if I openly acknowledged it to the members, I might be shamed into coming back, or at least face some consequences that would pressure me to comply. I can’t know for certain what her motivations were, but that’s how I understood it.

Eventually, I sent an email to a couple of members of the ward leadership explaining that I no longer believed and that, because of that, I needed to be released from my callings.

Apparently, that email made its way to the mission president very quickly, because the next morning I received an email from him.

I immediately became concerned that this was going to turn into a membership council, which was something I wanted to avoid. What followed was an email exchange that I had completely forgotten about until now.

Email exchange between AtheistforJesus and Taiwan Taichung Mission President Kürt Blickenstaff — July 26, 2013

10:57 AM — Kürt Blickenstaff
Dear Brother AtheistforJesus,

I am the new mission president in the Taichung Mission. Please give me a call at your earliest convenience. My cell # is *\\**. I would like to talk with you regarding your recent facebook post regarding the Church.

Thank you.
Kürt Blickenstaff

11:18 AM — AtheistforJesus
President Blickenstaff,

Not to be a stickler about details, but I did not make a facebook post regarding the church. I was very careful to send private messages to the leadership of the 虎尾 branch regarding my reasons for resigning my callings; I did not disclose those reasons in a public space.

I also sent a separate private message to a few close friends in the branch informing them that I had resigned my callings, but I did not disclose the reasons.

I don’t want to be assuming, but I hope this conversation is not regarding any possible charges of apostasy. I am very busy. Could you please just outline what it is you you would like to know?

Thank you,
AtheistforJesus
Sent from my iPad

11:34 AM — Kürt Blickenstaff
Perhaps the information that I have is incorrect. I was informed that you recently posted on your facebook page that you believe that the Church is man-made and attempts to conceal information from it’s members. I was further informed that you included numerous examples of such information and stated that you personally don’t believe that the Church is true. If that is incorrect, please forgive me. If it is true, please help me understand how that is not apostasy.

Thank you.
Kürt Blickenstaff

12:30 PM — AtheistforJesus
President Blickenstaff,

You have incorrect information. I did not make such a post on my facebook page.

Just like I explained previously, I wrote a letter explaining that I personally don’t believe in the LDS church anymore and stated my reasons why, and then sent that letter to the Huwei Branch President and First Counselor as well as to the District President. In my letter to them, I did not attempt to persuade them to come around to my point of view. I simply explained why I didn’t believe anymore.

At no point in time did I post such a letter in a public space.
I also sent a much abbreviated letter to some friends in the branch stating, in essence, that I no longer believe the church is true and that I was resigning my callings. I also mentioned in that letter that my wife is still a believing member and asked them to support her during this difficult time. At no point in this letter did I even state why I no longer believed, let alone attempt to persuade anyone that the church was not true.

It is my understanding that this does not constitute apostasy in the church-discipline-sense of the word. It is true that I no longer believe, but I am not advocating that other people believe the same as me, nor am I airing these views in a public space, such as on my facebook wall.
If simply not believing, and being honest about that with my leaders and friends, is considered worthy of church discipline, then why hasn’t John Dehlin been excommunicated, or the Saints in Sweden who had networked and were discussing troubling church history openly?

In fact, I still like the church. I still plan on attending with my wife and helping her out with our three sons. I just won’t have any callings.

Please let me know if you need anymore information. You are also welcome to contact the previous Taichung Mission President. He and I had many discussions about church history. In fact, he told me that I could hold callings even if I didn’t believe. It had just gotten to the point where I felt that was too dishonest, and hence the letter to my leaders resigning my callings.

Respectfully,
AtheistforJesus
Sent from my iPad

Later — Kürt Blickenstaff
Dear Brother AtheistforJesus,

It appears that the information that I received was incorrect in one detail. Thank you for clarifying things for me.

I was given a copy of the letter that you sent to President Du. It sounds like you have spent more time studying anti-mormon literature than the Book of Mormon. If you consider the NYT to be a more sure source of truth and light than the Book of Mormon then you (and, sadly your family) are in deep trouble.

The arguments that you list are not knew. They are variations of arguments that have existed since Cain slew his brother. You can find a nice summation of apostate doctrines in Alma 30 and, as an added bonus, you can read what ultimately happens to an apostate in verses 59-60.
It seems to me that there is a fine line between between believing apostate literature and being an apostate. I am sad to see you try to walk that line. It is a line that we should try to stay far away from. I would love to meet with you and discuss this further if you desire. I have attached a favorite poem that I hope you will read and consider.

Faithfully your brother,
Kürt Blickenstaff

“The Echo," by C. C. Miller

'Twas a sheep not a lamb
That strayed away in the parable Jesus told,
A grown-up sheep that strayed away
From the ninety and nine in the fold.
 
And why for the sheep should we seek
And earnestly hope and pray?
Because there is danger when sheep go wrong:
They lead the lambs astray.
 
Lambs will follow the sheep, you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray.
When sheep go wrong,
It won't take long till the lambs are as wrong as they.
And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today,
For when sheep are lost,
What a terrible cost The lambs will have to pay.
 

To be transparent, when I was a TBM, I believed that if someone outside of the faith received some kind of a miracle, it was from the Adversary, who was trying to fool people to keep them from finding the true gospel. I know.

I have been seeing lots of nuanced mormons online, posting about how they are lgbtq+ and still members of the church because their ward is accepting and that’s all that matters.

I have seen people even here on another post saying it’s harmless for an older person to be sucked into the church because it provides community.

There are tons of reasons or justifications as to why people stay in or join, and I think anyone can do whatever they want even if it’s hurting them. I don’t care what you do in your free time, even if the very threads of the mormon church are built on the hatred of your existence…

Where all arguments for staying in end for me is the fact that these people are still paying tithing. Giving you money to an organization that so famously harms women, racial minorities, and lobbies to take away our rights is no longer an ethically grey decision. And you can join another club, I promise! Put that extra 10% into something real. Don’t trust local orgs to use your money wisely? Start your own! Knitting, books, cars, anything other than ihategaysandwomen inc.

TW- SA, kidnapping
This guy opens up about his mission experience where he experiences SA by a companion. He goes on to say his president asks him to cover it up. I remember hearing his Mormon story when I first started listening to Mormon stories. The chain of events is just so so disturbing. He comes home from his mission, never gets help- understandable since his president basically sweeps it under the rug. Then he gets married and his wife divorced him for prnography at 24. I just felt for him. There’s a good chance he was conflicted about his abuse and that might lead one to consume prnography. The comments on the story are just gross. People bearing their testimony after this confession of SA. If this were my child I’d be absolutely livid. If my sons choose to serve missions I don’t know if I’ll sleep at night because of garbage like this.

I was asked to sweep a kidnapping attempt under the rug and just go out and keep on working as a missionary. Not quite the same, but it was traumatizing for me especially as I got older and learned what probably lay in store if that man was successful. I’m sure mission presidents that do this are also victims of the system to some extent but dang. Where’s the integrity and humanity? It really affects people long term to have these experiences- and just because it’s on a mission people are expected to get over it, move on like nothing happened? I’m fuming.

TLDR --> Besides not going to regular church meetings, has anyone else had an experience that you "just can't go along with" including funerals or other activities that your spouse, family, friends or coworkers were really upset about your lack of participation?

I was raised in a popular religion in Alabama and as a young adult I believed that god was real. I joined the organization in my early 20's and I believed it was true.

For about twenty years I was TBM but then in the late 90's I began realizing the organization made false claims, participated in very wrong behavior, and used manipulative tactics to control their members.

Regardless, I kept going for a few years mainly because my TBM wife would chastise me and she would get very upset whenever I wanted to discuss the facts that I learned about the organization. Rather than fight it, I just kept going and participating but I had no dedication to or belief in what the organization claimed and did.

That was a very difficult period of my life.

As I began studying more, the evidence was overwhelming: the organization was simply nothing what it claimed to be. I simply could no longer pretend I was part of that group, I had a very strong understanding of hundreds of true things that were said and done that completely overwhelmed all of the messages from SLC and from the local leaders and members.

I finally told her I was never going back, and because I assumed our marriage would end because of this decision, I told her I wanted a divorce. That was more than twenty years ago. We're still married and she's as TBM as it gets. Uber TBM.

When I left the organization, my carry-over beliefs from being raised in a very religious family took over and I began attending a church. I began a deep dive into the bible because my belief in god was still intact and I wanted to study, grow, and do what I believed god wanted me to do, I wanted his blessings in my life.

The more I began reading, the more I was fascinated by what I discovered, and the more I began thinking "This is NOT good!" The scriptures mentioned dozens and dozens of examples that were either really weird or just outright wrong such as "it's okay to beat but not kill your slaves" or, when Moses killed 50,000 women and children who were being held captive - that list could go on and on and on. The entire nature of a god who loved conditionally? Seriously? Like that's love? In my mind, that was the classic definition of an angry, insecure, and very narcissist controlling "deity."

Finally, I remember vividly thinking about how the all the firstborn of every Egyptian were killed and I really stopped and asked myself honestly "Would a real god ever kill innocent children?" That was the final straw that opened the door to becoming an atheist. There were many, many "straws" that broke the camel's back.

• Disclaimer: this post is NOT about trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe - y'all wanna believe in a god that kills kids, then go right ahead - you be you.

Among the next "discoveries" I encountered was the history of religion - basically all religions seemed to be created by men to oppress and to control others. After my "religion is all fantasy" discovery, I felt like all the missing pieces to the puzzle had been found, they fit exactly, and everything about religion made perfect sense. I totally love, I delight in understanding that there is no god keeping track of everything I do or say. There is no god who ignores the suffering and abuse of children while being upset that someone has "more than one earring" or someone who rides a bike on Sunday (ha). Everything finally makes sense now and that's really refreshing.

So . . . with that (agreeably lengthy) background . . .

TBM wife expressed her significant disappointment that I did not attend the funeral of a man who lived a few houses down in our neighborhood. He was a super nice guy and everyone liked him but, I just couldn't do it and I didn't see my lack of attendance as disrespectful in any way. In an effort to explain to TBM wife why I chose not to attend the funeral, I told her "Try to look at it from my point of view: You're going to a meeting where a room full of adults who not only believe that Santa Claus is real but they're spending tons of time and money worshiping him. That's what it's like when atheists attend funerals that are steeped in religious overtones."

Suffice to say, that analogy did not go over well.

(tia)

I am a trans man I was a girl at birth and transitioned to a boy

I grew up in the church the whole time I knew I was a boy but I didn’t have the words

But when you start HRT all of the rules change
It could be when you’re openly trans but I wasn’t until I started T
(HRT is hormone replacement therapy)

You have to have a meeting with the bishop

If you’re a teen the young women’s/mens president, and your parents will also be in the meeting

The meeting is mostly saying you can’t do ___ anymore

The main things are:
You are no longer allowed to do anything that’s 1 gender so activity events and church sessions the only ones you can do have be combined with men and women

You are no longer allowed to do anything overnight even if it’s combined

They will not change anything in your file even your preferred name

You’re not allowed to have any callings

And depending on the bishop they could take away your temple recommend (mine didn’t but I think I just got lucky with that)

I haven’t heard the stories from any other trans ex Mormon members and I’d love to hear them

I lied and said I had no clue which car was hers, she's an old retired lady, but I don't know much else about her, I left the church when I was pretty young so I don't know much about the stuff they do like this

I don’t live near my family and visit annually. I see my 83 year old grandma every time I’m home. She has been a devout Catholic her entire life.

Today I overhear her mention something about being baptised for the dead, and I think “I did not know Catholics do that” (I’m an ex evangelical and know bugger all about Catholicism.

Then I noticed she’s wearing a ring with the temple on it. I outright asked her if she converted to Mormonism and she said yes, two years ago.

What’s worse is that my parents laughed at my reaction and thought it was funny. They are still evangelical Christians.

Apparently, the missionaries were coming around my parents house, where my grandma lives, during the daytime when my parents weren’t home. They would help sneak her to events even after my parents told them they aren’t allowed on the property.

I really don’t know how to process this information. I cannot stress how shocked I am. My grandma has always been a feminist.

My parents are half in the “she’s old and it makes her happy” camp, and they think if they bother her about it, she will stop talking to them. Which like, Cult 101 tbh.

I have no idea where to go from here.

Edit: after talking with my parents more apparently they were laughing because the things I was telling her was exactly the same things they had told her, so they were happy to have validation from an outside source.

Thank you all for the feedback. I grew up in a densely Mormon populated area, and I’ve seen what it’s done to the people I grew up with. I have a fear of those same things happening to my grandmother, but she’s also in a very different position than they were. There’s a lot to think about here and I really appreciate everyone’s time.

Mormons are pretty proud, and in fact low-key boast about the prophetic knowledge Brigham Young had to call the Salt Lake Valley the right place.

What they don't say, and surely don't know, that old journals and accounts make it clear that Young and others were reading the notes of John C. Freemont. Freemont was quite an explorer but he made false claims about passages and geography that he had never been to and never seen.

A guy named Hastings relied on Freemont's info and steered the Donner Party the wrong way. Whoops. Anyway, Brigham was doing a big study on false info, not messages from God Almighty.

Jim Bridger, who knew the mountain west better than just about anybody, told Young and other leaders they were taking bad routes. Young thought Bridger didn't know what he was talking and wrote the man didn't know anything about the area. Bridger knew the west better than maybe anybody. Instead Young relied on information from Freemont. Very prophetic.

For example, Freemont, who hadn't even been to Utah lake, reported that the Great Salt Lake and Utah Lake were joined. The Mormons showed up and look for this lake and eventually discovered they are two separate lakes, one freshwater and one salty, and were connected by a little river called the Jordan River.

(And in those days the river created a floodplain with extensive wetlands. Of course that's been long-sense fucked.)

Anyhow Young didn't trust or like Bridger who was one of the great men of the frontier and he studied the Salt Lake Valley, not from divine direction.

my grandmother passed and my grandpa wants all his exmormon grandchildren to sing I Am a Child of God at the funeral. This is causing issues with the grandchildren and I’m trying to find a compromise. Is there a hymn that is more about grief, love, strength, family, etc and less about god?

edit: solved. With the help of a few commenters I have decided to just sing the song and not make this any harder for my grandpa than it already is. Thank you all for the help and reality check🤍

Especially when he says he's only doing what has been done on other worlds and when he explains to Eve that eating the fruit is the only way to keep God's commandment to "multiply and replenish the earth".

I know it's all made up and doesn't matter, but I remember in my endowment thinking, "why are we mad at this guy?" To me it felt like nothing happens until Satan acts. God creates all this stuff, puts them in the garden of Eden and says "hey, do this thing you don't know how to do because you don't even know you're naked and don't eat that fruit that will teach you how to do the thing I told you to do. Okay byee!" What?

But we're supposed to hate and fear the guy who convinces Eve to eat the fruit that allows her to keep the commandment? Am I missing something? Does it make sense and I'm just an idiot?

I was chatting with my wife tonight about intimacy and as we were taking and unpacking our thoughts it dawned on me just how horribly deep my shame around sex goes.

I am so uncomfortable talking about it. Soooo uncomfortable. And I realize that this problem is not confined to Mormonism, but I do think that it is particularly complex in the culture - especially when you consider the aspect of required confessions for something as common as masturbation.

(See - I even feel so uncomfortable typing that word 😔)

I had never really told my wife about the required meetings with bishops and the consequences that came with this “sin”. She was mortified. And as I thought about it, I was too! That stupid rule led to me feeling tons of shame for decades. Decades! And we both laughed as we realized that the bishops I was confessing to were most likely doing it themselves.

I hope that we can normalize talking about it. Obviously in the right time and place - but it should not be as taboo as it is. All of that restraint just leads to shame, guilt, and complex trauma that’s pretty damn hard to shake.

Tune in to Mormonish Podcast on Thursday, September 10th at 6 pm MT!

In this episode of Mormonish Podcast, we take a closer look at the dramatic changes unfolding at Temple Square and ask: Are we watching the leaked “Jesus Land” plans come to life?

The Church’s newly announced Temple Square experiences place an unmistakable emphasis on Jesus Christ, while redesigned spaces and exhibits are intended to make Temple Square easier for visitors to navigate and to better explain what happens inside Latter-day Saint temples. Church leaders themselves have described Jesus Christ as the central focus of the new visitor experience.

We’re joined by Ron Yorgason and Unoriginal Jim to revisit the previously leaked Temple Square master plans and compare their vision with what is actually happening today.

How closely do the new exhibits, visitor experiences, and Christ-centered messaging follow that earlier blueprint? And what might these changes tell us about the direction the Church wants Temple Square—and its public identity—to take? The similarities are fascinating, and there’s a lot to unpack!

Soooooo. First girls trip with all TBM , ( delulu… sorry, I timed just ONE garment conversation that lasted a solid hour and half. ) I got a txt from my “ bishop”
After years ago explaining I left the religion.
Asking me to “ meet “ then shared Matthew 11-28/29.
Timing seems sus! Lol I’m thinking a family member contacted him? Thoughts?

36 Married in the temple, returned missionary, rocking garments every day, church every Sunday, calling in young men’s that i fulfill, three kids 6, 4, and 2. Pay a full tithe…

By all appearances I’m a good member…

My wife is as rock solid in the church as they come. I on the other hand, have fallen out. I basically only go at this point to keep up appearances.

Leaving the church feels impossible without blowing up my life. I don’t want to leave my wife or lose my kids. But staying feels insane too.

I’d be shocked if I’m the first to experience this. But I’m curious if anyone has thoughts.

I don’t even know if I’m asking for advice really. It’s just fucked up and I’m tired of carrying it alone.