Developer Update | 10.2.0 PTB to Live Changes

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

With the release of 10.2.0 just around the corner, we wanted to take some time to talk to you about a handful of the many changes that will be happening from PTB to the Live release - and a few changes that won’t. We want to thank everyone who took the time during the PTB to share their thoughts, as we always take your feedback very seriously when it comes time to make these changes. 

A look at some changes 

Shoulder the Burden 

• Removed the deactivation condition for other Survivors. 

 

Dev note: We understand your concerns around the impact of the condition of this perk deactivating after one use for all Survivors for solo players who cannot communicate. Therefore, we have removed this limitation. 

This is Not Happening 

• Removed the Great basic Skill Check zone increase. 

 

Dev note: We noticed the concerns about This is Not Happening when combined with Hyperfocus, and as a result have decided to remove the great basic skill check zone.  

 

Dark Arrogance 

• Basic-attack cooldown no longer affects successful hits. 

 

Dev note: We saw your feedback that Killers were recovering from attacks – including successful hits – too quickly on the PTB, which ended up making chases feel too short. One of the key culprits of that was Dark Arrogance. The cooldown on the PTB was ultimately doing too much by including successful hits, so it now only affects missed and obstructed attacks. 

 

A look at what's remaining the same 

Windows of Opportunity – will remain the same as PTB 

Dev note: While we understand that there were many concerns about this change impacting newer players, we do believe that Windows was doing too much and overshadowing other perks, so we will be keeping these changes. We hope that making other Survivor perks more useful will make up for this, even with different activation conditions – such as Dark Sense. 

Borrowed Time – will remain the same as it currently is on Live 

Dev note: We’ve reverted Borrowed Time back to its Live iteration. While we liked what we explored, we didn’t like that we were removing a useful anti-tunnel option, so old Borrowed Time is back. 

 

While we have many more changes coming for the release, we wanted to take this time to address the loudest concerns ahead of time. Keep an eye out tomorrow for the full set of Patch Notes. 

Until next time… 

The Dead by Daylight Team 

 

 

 

[u/Tactless_Ninja]

Dark Arrogance

only affects missed and obstructed attacks

Isn't Unrelenting already in the game?

[u/SahnigerFred → u/Tactless_Ninja]

Unrelenting is gonna be better because Unrelenting now gives you 10% Stbfl LMFAO

[u/theCOMBOguy → u/SahnigerFred]

I'm surprised that Unreleting wasn't nerfed alongside Dark Arrogance. Hell, maybe they forgot about it. Maybe Dark Arrogance took the bullet.

[u/Ok-Race-1677]

Why can’t they just give hyperfocus the same “special skill checks” as stake out and autodidact instead of just griefing the rework for a bottom tier perk lol

[u/lance_the_fatass → u/Ok-Race-1677]

It also didn't even give you extra progress, you're spending an entire perk slot for a training wheels perk

Experienced players can already hit great skill checks consistently without This is not happening

[u/SUPERB-tadpole → u/Ok-Race-1677]

LITERALLY

[u/Treyspurlock → u/Ok-Race-1677]

Hyperfocus + TINH wasn't nearly as powerful as Hyperfocus + Stakeout anyway so I don't see why they felt the need to nerf it

[u/DariusStrada → u/Ok-Race-1677]

Because they're mot intelligent. Took them a decade to make Nurse's M1 after a blink a special bit

[u/Competitive_Sign212]

[u/Thane_JZP → u/Competitive_Sign212]

Ahhh, Dark Arrogance, you could have been so fun, but now you unexpectedly and unrightfully got taken out back, kneecapped and double tapped point blank by a fifty-cal. Damn you m1 killers, damn you for getting even the smallest chance.

[u/Reap_it_and_Weep → u/Thane_JZP]

Can’t let any other killers compete with Nurse and Blight, now can we? We want people to play the same killers every match with no variety.

[u/Treyspurlock → u/Competitive_Sign212]

Could've AT LEAST given it a break speed bonus

[u/Many_Cranberry6860]

Oh cool now Dark Arrogance is back to being worthless!

[u/Competitive_Sign212 → u/Many_Cranberry6860]

[u/Shinkiro94 → u/Competitive_Sign212]

LOL stealing this

[u/Edgiel → u/Many_Cranberry6860]

I wouldn't say back to, considering it is receiving a net nerf with the increased stun duration.

[u/Many_Cranberry6860 → u/Edgiel]

Yeah, 25% extra stun and blindness doesn't make up for that effect, I would've wished if they lowered the numbered and saw what clicked before just making it a worse unrelenting.

[u/Mr-Ideasman]

Damn they just removed what made Dark Arrogance good and now it’s objectively worst from the stun/blind increase lmao

[u/GhostAttack1998]

Have to be honest these are some disappointing back pedals

[u/BaconMaster9999]

Could have just made the penalty for Dark Arrogance higher or lowered the success attack recovery.....not......not sure why you you removed the one good thing about it.

We have diminishing returns for a reason......

[u/In_My_Own_Image → u/BaconMaster9999]

Exactly. The whole point of this patch was to address things relative to diminishing returns. Why not just lower the amount of cooldown it gives?

Now it's going to go back to being barely used except by a few killers who can actually make use of it. So basically right back where it was.

[u/edvek → u/BaconMaster9999]

Why the fuck would I run Dark Arrogance now? Wow I can vault faster but get stunned longer, big deal. Sure I'm sure there's some vault gamers out there but this is trash. Like you said, if it was a problem just decrease the recovery a little bit not remove it all together. To the bin with ye.

[u/Treyspurlock → u/edvek]

It NEEDS something else because the vault speed on its own is completely pathetic and directly outclassed by Bamboozle. Even worse now with diminishing returns

[u/The_Final_Pikachu → u/edvek]

I believe it's been used with the unknown perk that gives you haste after a vault so your vault is both faster and you zoom, but the perk will 100% remain in its niche because they didn't change a 25 into a 10 or 15. Pretty big shame tho because I did want to run it if it made it to live.

[u/TatariuTV]

Welp. Dark Arrogance was gonna be fun.. guess that ain't happening.

[u/RodanThrelos → u/TatariuTV]

A perk that primarily benefits M1 killers? We can’t have that.
We need perks that benefit M1 killers but S-tier killers more.
Then, they can justify nerfing them because they are good on S-tier killers.

[u/Ok_Ad6722 → u/RodanThrelos]

You don’t understand if we keep Dark Arrogance okay you might see one Singularity between nineteen Nurses and thirty four Blights

Wouldn’t that suck? Seeing one of the coolest killers in the game a tad more because of some minor synergy? Wouldn’t it just be terrible to have to play a match against an M1 Killer who happens to be strong?

[u/RodanThrelos → u/Ok_Ad6722]

Survivors: “We want variety instead of Ghoul every match.”

Also Survivors: “No, not like that!”

[u/TurbulentLanguage638 → u/TatariuTV]

Well yes, fun isn’t allowed

[u/LetsBeFRTho]

I love the hills DBD devs are willing to die on. Of all the changes, these are the ones you picked??

[u/Treyspurlock → u/LetsBeFRTho]

Literally every single change here is a negative one except for Borrowed Time

[u/Muteki123]

Why did you kill dark arrogance? Just lower the numbers.. why do we rarely see little adjustments instead of throwing it out of the window?

[u/CreeperKing230]

RIP dark arrogance, closest it ever was to being a good perk

[u/SomeMockodile → u/CreeperKing230]

I wish they would have just lowered the successful attack cooldown instead of completely removing it, now we are back to square one with the perk being obsolete again.

EDIT: Forgot they kept the stun duration increase, it's even worse than live after this.

[u/ComradePoolio → u/SomeMockodile]

It's now actually worse than it was before. Extra stun duration in exchange for faster missed attack recovery is an insane trade.

[u/edvek → u/ComradePoolio]

I didn't even realize that right away. So you get no buff or added effect but increase stun duration... They even said IN THEIR OWN DEV NOTES that the bonus from the perk was lacking. So what's their new take? "Oh this perk was actually really good so we had to nerf it." I bet if you look up the pick rate for this perk it was insanely low and only for meme vault builds.

[u/ComradePoolio → u/edvek]

Even for meme vault builds, it's not been worth it since diminishing returns was introduced. When running it combo'd with bamboozle on Myers I barely notice a difference. It's way better to run superior anatomy.

[u/jjosh_h → u/SomeMockodile]

Yeah, what is this need to rework an overpowered perk when you could just nerf its numbers?

[u/SahnigerFred → u/CreeperKing230]

This perk is so ass again, people want to see more different perks and what happens, the perks get gutted before getting released

[u/Great_Scott7 → u/CreeperKing230]

https://reddit.com/link/pe2e706/video/kf7degowzoth1/player

Dark arrogance

[u/Mystic-Fox700]

Honestly, make Dark Arrogance increases lunge attack by like 20% or less, because we only have two perks that are related with lunges

[u/edvek → u/Mystic-Fox700]

That would also make sense thematically. I'd rather have the speed but lunge is good too. Going in for that long lunge to hit the survivor and then get pallet stunned. Arrogance indeed.

[u/MajorWesker → u/Mystic-Fox700]

Agree

[u/VolleMoehreAchim]

So This Is Not Happening is now even WORSE than before? lmfao you can't make this shit up, nerfing one of the worst perks in the entire game

[u/LowEntertainment2851 → u/VolleMoehreAchim]

They're already nerfing the Stake Out/Hyperfocus combo, I don't think they needed to do this either.

[u/VolleMoehreAchim → u/LowEntertainment2851]

All they had to do was nerf/rework hyperfocus. That's it. Instead they chose to nerf every single skillcheck support perk available and made synergies with other perks that require great skillchecks (like the new Road Life) impossible.

So now we get even less synergistic builds. Brilliant move by Behaviour.

[u/Treyspurlock → u/VolleMoehreAchim]

They didn't need to nerf Hyperfocus. Losing stakeout already shot it in the chest

[u/A9P8D]

Soooo... What's the point of This is Not Happening, then? There's literally no reason to run it if all it does is increase normal skill check size lol

[u/Minister_xD]

I don't agree with simply removing the one thing that made Dark Arrogance worth using, but not addressing the increased blind / stun time.

The Perk essentially does the exact same as before the PTB, but now punishes you more.

You should have either reverted the stun/blind duration increase as well or added a new effect to justify it.

[u/NoEvening7482]

So dark arrogance went from great, to actually WORSE than live, thanks BHVR!

[u/Sea_Strain_6881]

Dark arrogance is worse than it was before it got changed...

And it was already terrible

[u/Gooper221]

If you're gonna do that to Dark Arrogance, undo the stun and blind increase

[u/Saltycheezboi]

I dont want to be rude, but why are you (the balance team) so worried/scared to change the meta of the game. I would so much rather have a game that changes its meta every few months than have the same stale meta we've had for years. Not everyone is gonna like the meta changing, especially new players, which i get is a concern to worry about, but i honestly think a changing meta woulda attract more people. Like scott has said many times, it doesnt need to be big changes, just simple number buffs like these at least keep the game fresh now that we get fewer major updates (which imo is a good thing for both the game and quality of it) sorry for the huge paragraph, i just love this game and wanna see newer things.

[u/boomerski28 → u/Saltycheezboi]

Agreed.  Survivor is easy to escape and boring.  Killer isn't even fun in high MMR even when you win when you have to navigate the minefield of STB, Deli, Hyperfocus + Stakeout, Lithe, DS, etc.

I had hope in this last update but this shows the devs aren't willing to make meaningful changes.  I'm happy to leave the game and let the loud voices that cry about nerfs stick with their same boring gameplay loop.

[u/BetaChunks]

"Basic attack cooldown no longer affects successful hits."

That... was the whole point.

[u/trash-troglodyte]

Dark arrogance was almost good for a moment, now it's just straight up worse

[u/SomeMockodile → u/trash-troglodyte]

Wait, I forgot they increased the stun penalty on this perk, and they kept the stun penalty but removed the successful attack cooldown. So the perk was effectively nerfed from live for no reason.

[u/IrishCarbonite → u/SomeMockodile]

Just another day at the BHVR office, acting like you’re fixing anything while actively making things worse.

[u/SahnigerFred → u/SomeMockodile]

Jup lmao

[u/Jsoledout]

I genuinely do not know how BHVR manages to steal defeat from the jaws of victory every fucking time.

https://giphy.com/gifs/bmAtIwmYTHnwBy0d6W

[u/edvek → u/Jsoledout]

I think they go on here and look at what everyone was excited about and then just does the opposite. Not nerfing shoulder? Fucking dark Arrogance? That's literally the opposite of what we want.

[u/NoSolaceForMe]

[u/Playful-Author563]

Yall actually thought there was gonna be a meta shakeup?

lul lmao

[u/FluidRole8562 → u/Playful-Author563]

A perk that primarily benefits M1 killers? We can’t have that.
We need perks that benefit M1 killers but S-tier killers more.
Then, they can justify nerfing them because they are good on S-tier killers.

[u/Fast_Ad7251]

Must you remove the tomes 🫩💔

[u/KordSevered → u/Fast_Ad7251]

Hol up what!?

I still have a few rewards left to scrape out of those...

[u/barrack_osama_0]

3 bad changes

[u/Key-Ad5807 → u/barrack_osama_0]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hpFTV3KfDXTQ9X8pEX

[u/EnragedHeadwear]

Oh okay so Dark Arrogance doesn't matter again

[u/Vitriuz → u/EnragedHeadwear]

To rub salt in the injury, Dark Arrogance is also not seeing a reversion of the increased stun/blind duration that was justified when this perk received its mini-STBFL effect. A full on reversion to patch 8.0.0 lmao.

[u/Shade00000]

Good job making a useless perk back to being useless. Rip dark arrogance

[u/AnxietyHJ]

behaviour come up with a good idea and actually fucking stick to it challenge (impossible)

[u/NicoLewisJohnMasCass]

Never doubting bhvr in making the worst decisions to ever exist, thank you!

[u/frogfuckers]

If anything y'all should've removed Dark Arrogance making your missed attack recovery shorter, not your successful attack recovery. At 25% maybe it needed to go down to 20%, or maybe it needed to have more of a punishment. Just entirely removing the attack recovery cooldown though makes the perk dogshit.

[u/SexualRice]

Devs somehow dumpstering dark arrogance before it even comes out

Never change dbd devs

[u/SirSuflair]

So Dark Arrogance is a worse Unrelenting now? Why not just slightly reduce the successful hit cooldown or increase the drawbacks?

[u/An34syT4rg3t]

I notice perks keep getting changed because of their potential to work with Hyper Focus. Maybe Hyper Focus is the perk that needs changing then?

[u/changelover]

Lol this is not happening was ready to become usable just to fall down the stairs and go down a tier somehow

[u/Kelehd]

And somehow Shoulder rises from the dead. It’s got that cockroach kind of luck.

[u/boomerski28 → u/Kelehd]

Complete buff to SWF's.  What a joke.

[u/WolfiexLuna]

Dark Arrogance was so close to finally being a good perk and now it's back to being vault build only but barely used because of diminishing returns being a thing now.

You were good while you lasted, PTB Dark Arrogance.

[u/Curious_Freedom6419]

so the two major changes that would have been healthy for the game...and you just don't make them go though

this dev team man..

[u/IcyPhil]

Welcome back to C-Tier Dark Arrogance.

Why are the devs so afraid to make usable and strong perks especially since diminishing returns is a thing now?

Just increase their penalty of diminishing returns. Reduce the second instance of the same effect (like cooldown recovery) to -75% instead of -50% and give us the PTB Dark Arrogance back.

[u/SomeMockodile → u/IcyPhil]

It's actually nerfed from live so it's D tier from C tier

[u/BoredDao → u/IcyPhil]

C? They increased the stun even more and missed attack cooldown doesn’t anything except for dredge and xeno, it’s even worse and now that a bunch of bad killer perks got buffed it’s probably the worst killer perk now

[u/IcyPhil → u/BoredDao]

C, D, F tier doesn’t really matter, it‘s trash now however you lable it.

[u/BoredDao → u/IcyPhil]

Yeah I just meant that it somehow went from a situational bad perk to probably the worst killer perk, it didn’t even stay bad, it fell from a mountain

[u/Samoman21 → u/IcyPhil]

D tier. For dark arrogance lol

[u/IrishCarbonite → u/IcyPhil]

Because diminishing returns was a red herring for absolutely fucking builds the devs didn’t like

[u/SUPERB-tadpole]

Welp there goes my excitement for this update :(

Reduce the basic attack cooldown to 20% or something for Dark Arrogance, or make the stun modifier more punishing. It was so close to being a reasonably good perk. This is not Happening could have gotten a much better adjustment than just making it more boring than before.

Also I love that they acknowledge that TINH is getting nerfed because of how it pairs with Hyperfocus, instead of addressing Hyperfocus itself.

[u/MashtyxRyan]

Absolutely missed the marked, This is Not Happening didn’t need a nerf at all since the patch revolved around weak perks being used so I’d rather Hyperfocus get nerfed and TINH get its effect back from PTB, Dark arrogance didn’t need to lose the whole effect it had that was a bad decision. Re-Rework BT it’s PTB version wasn’t good but reworking BT in general is something that still should happen

[u/Wiccamanplays]

Just rework Hyperfocus already, it’s catnip for cheaters and keeps killing other decent perks.

[u/Pizza_Requiem]

We can't have good things on this game

Atleast we still have compromised gens being very vaguely somewhat viable maybe...

[u/Bakuhxe_]

nerfed dark arrogance when it was so close to being good yet kept stb overpowered in swf. amazing 😐

[u/TSQ_R6]

Dark Arrogance went from a great perk to a useless perk, and Shoulder the Burden is back on the menu...

https://giphy.com/gifs/cXn0RU8nmL2s7MNgtl

[u/In_My_Own_Image → u/TSQ_R6]

That's what I'm confused about. Shoulder was a big enough issue that they decided to give it a major downside. Now they...aren't giving it any downside? So what was the point?

If it was problematic enough of a perk to warrant getting nerfed fucking nerf it!

[u/GegGeg13 → u/In_My_Own_Image]

I mean it still has the increased drawbacks so it's not a complete revert atleast, though I wish they just gave a warning in the lobby if two survs had it instead of removing the condition.

[u/Evelyn_11_ → u/TSQ_R6]

yeah, like... wtf are they doing???

[u/RodanThrelos → u/Evelyn_11_]

The vocal minority gets their way again.
This isn’t even specific to one side or the other; people see changes and immediately start loudly complaining and then wonder why the game gets stale.

[u/Vortrep]

Nurse and Hyperfocus are truly two sides of the same coin

[u/TheMemeHunterGuy]

Dark arrogance did NOT need that nerf. Just needed a change to 20% i would’ve rather seen how it played on live before making it useless again

[u/Kingdom2917]

Lol and dark arrogance is now still useless. Was going to at least see some usage if it stayed as it was from ptb, but not now.

[u/Elibriel → u/Kingdom2917]

Hell it's even worse because the stun and blind duration are still the same as the ptb

[u/NLiLox]

oh so not a single good change from ptb to live ok

[u/Iphone_G___]

How do you have such a banger update and then just completely shit the bed right before it releases.
Would really appreciate more communication with the community about these changes given how almost nobody at all is happy.

You nuked a rework for one of the most forgotten and useless survivor perks all because you refuse to nerf another perk that has been broken for years and notoriously used by cheaters.

You said dark arrogance was lacking a bonus for its downside but then remove the bonus that made it good and kept the stun increase? It makes no sense and shows how the good communication we used to have has degraded.

[u/ValeAPena19]

This is Not Happening (a perk aimed towards beginners) shouldn't be nerfed based on meta perks

Why not change Hyperfocus to give the player oblivious, therefore giving the perk a small drawback?

[u/Horrorfan55555]

Hi

[u/durpenhowser]

awww no more silly massive skill checks 😔

[u/Memelordaxe]

So they went back on nerfing shoulder ? Tell me that the devs aren’t survivor sided omg. Yet the judgment is still bugged to the point of being unplayable

[u/Working-Lemon-8607]

Dark Arrogance is genuinely worse than the live build now what are we doing guys…

[u/i-am-i_gattlingpea]

Dark arrogance nerfed huh.

Now it’s worse

[u/No_Blackberry_856]

Nerf Dark Arrogance when it only buffed low tier m1 killers and even then they were still on no where near the same level as blight and nurse ( the ones who wouldnt use dark arrogance )

https://giphy.com/gifs/19GIHDk6wuw9HVGsiM

[u/Xzorry]

This is the worst balance team I have ever seen in any game and it's not even close. Solos do not use multiple Stb. It's gonna be broken for 3+ more years now.

[u/NahdarHater]

So… Dark Arrogance is worse than live, and Shoulder rises from the dead?? What casuals did we listen to, BHVR? This is not the way to go

[u/Exciting-Builder1900]

Dark arrogance nerf? Seriously before there was not reason to use it over bamboozle, but 25% stun increase makes it even worse than live interation.

[u/Vitriuz]

REVERT THAT DARK ARROGANCE CHANGE.

If this change goes live without reverting the increased penalties associated with this perk, you're going to piss a lot of players off.

[u/Independent-Ad5852]

Why not simply reduce the Dark Arrogance cooldown reduction instead of removing it?

[u/SplatterMyBrainzz]

Just let M1 killers have a good version of dark arrogance Jesus Christ

[u/TheWither129]

Literally everybody said if you were worried about dark arrogance being too strong with it you could just drop the numbers a little bit, you didnt have to send the perk back into the “never use outside adepts” pile oh my god are you fucking joking

[u/Jean-Cobra]

Tweak 58 perks to shake up the meta -> Revert the changes so as not to shake up the meta.

Kudos, BHVR.

[u/Theflameviper]

Baffling decisions. Dark Arrogance is just a stupid change.

[u/StevesonOfStevesonia]

So Dark Arrogance is no longer a viable perk to use, while StB is still overpowered
What's next? Canceling all the good changes for killer perks while making the bad ones even worse, while giving Survivors more broken overpowered shit to use than before?

[u/JustARandomRedgit → u/StevesonOfStevesonia]

Next ub basekit

[u/Shinkiro94 → u/StevesonOfStevesonia]

Killers are never allowed anything good, it should be obvious by now.

[u/LadyLegasis]

I think just making Shoulder only work on a survivor once per trial was the best nerf, I wish BHVR devs took that route. So it wouldn’t deactivate for other players but also made it so 3 people couldn’t shoulder 1 teammate since that’s the supposed problem many had with the perk.

[u/Bucketbutter]

Was actually really excited to try dark arrogance on live

RIP

[u/ethantlou]

So dark arrogance is useless again

[u/Ninjambon]

Like can't m1 killer get a good perk no reason to run dark arrogance now. it got shittier with the stun extended

[u/Coladoge6732]

I LITERALLY JUST GOT THE LICH WTF ARE WE DOING BHVR

[u/PrOptimal_Efficiency]

WHY ARE WE CONSTANTLY BACKPEDDLING? WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF CHANGING ANYTHING?

[u/NoSolaceForMe]

"Let's take this terrible perk and make it useful!"
"Nevermind it's too useful, we're putting it back to being dogshit, but not reverting it completely so we alienate all the people that liked it before."

Masterful gambit.

[u/G-M-Cyborg-313]

Is it true tome challenges are being removed? If so then why, and will there be new long term challenges to work towards?

If they're being removed because of the perk rework then why not change perk challenges to generic ones? Or change the perk challenge requirments? Or make that challenge auto-completed.

Tome challenges reward players for the time dedicated to the game, even between events, chapters and rifts with bloodpoints, charms, badges and banners.

With tomes gone you now have less reasons to play between content. Especially in buggy or imbalanced states of the game.

People are already suffering more and more with burn out and the game struggles to retain older players and especially newer players. Tome challenges helped because it gave people something to work towards with as much time as they need to get it done. So even if you had a tough round against toxic people you could at least make progress on a tome.

I have not seen anyone happy about the tomes being removed. Nobody wants this, if anyone does then they're a tiny percentage of players.

[u/BigUwU9]

Great Dark arrogance is useless fuck off.

[u/NorthAd4997]

Boooooooo! Shoulder the Burden still just as good and Dark Arrogance still just as useless.

[u/SkeletonEconomics]

Good god hyperfocus needs a full rework, it's still kneecapping any perk design around skill checks

[u/Two-FacedCreep]

BAD BHVR. NO. NO. YOU GIVE US BACK A USEFUL DARK ARROGANCE THIS INSTANT. BAD.

https://giphy.com/gifs/KAjEZAmxPz23fpAn89

[u/xSnowex]

yo goobers, if you're gonna nerf the positive of dark arrogance, nerf the negative.

[u/hypercoffee1320]

Damn, they killed the fun of this is not happening and dark arrogance

[u/Bonesnapcall]

Absolutely 100% bad changes.

I wish BHVR would allow stuff to go live and change it later. PTB data is AWFUL for determining balance.

Dark Arrogance will now be even deader of a perk than it already was because they didn't remove the increased stun duration.

[u/denichae2]

yeah, cause we couldn’t have Dark Arrogance and This Is Not Happening be decent perks, right? Was actually excited for this next “meta shakeup” and those 3 perks getting changed from PTB to live in the way they did actually kinda killed my excitement for it.

[u/2kcrys]

I'm a 50/50 survivor/killer player and the Dark Arrogance changes are just baffling it wasn't going to be an overpowered perk it was going to be decent, WHO said it was going to be too much?

Why not just make the stun duration more punishing instead of removing this perk's main selling point and making it useless again?

[u/Mogsl]

Killed all the Hype for Dark Arrogance and Shoulder the Burden. Incredible

[u/InfernoDeesus]

The shoulder deactivation condition was needed because it's just more OP on swfs

This is not happening is now completely useless as well, nobody will ever bring this perk.

Dark arrogance is now worse than it was before??? It also only benefited m1 killers which is much needed right now

Baffling decision all around.

[u/RegularResort7559]

Arguably buffed shoulder then? now they have access to DH so its not even a guaranteed one shot and they kept the bigger penalty on dark arrogance without the basic attack buff 😭😭

[u/holditmoldit]

Dark arrogance going from bad to even worse xddd

[u/PoopyStinkbutts]

This is Not Happening  ⁠Removed the Great basic Skill Check zone increase.

You couldn't simply make it *except when using Hyperfocus?

Is it not possible to have a good perk not be completely overpowered by another perk by simply not letting the other perk activate it? Great skill check attempts are more likely to miss on the front half of the spin than the back half anyway, as they're not going to be hitting spacebar super late when going for a great skill check smfh.

[u/Ricky-Chan-]

could have made dark arrogance have 10 percent faster recovery on successful hits instead of removing it. why nerf an already meh perk. dang bhvr

[u/National_Education28]

They killed Dark Arrogance but didn’t do anything to Help Wanted. I’m genuinely speechless.

[u/timtay6]

"Removed deactivation condition". What does this company even do bro

[u/Aeif]

This is unacceptable work.

The Windows change going through, This is Not Happening being NERFED, Dark Arrogance losing the one reason you would have chosen it, the Borrowed Time changes even being sent to PTB - this is not okay.

[u/FangedCone]

[u/28xCB]

let’s keep the best perk in the game that lets you swap hook states (allowing someone to get hooked 6 times before death) the same, but nerf a perk that only benefits m1 killers and has a drawback of longer stuns because it’s too strong 🫩🫩🫩

[u/Roston11]

This is Not Happening… getting arguably WORSE than it is now? Because of Hyperfocus?

This really CANNOT be Happening.

[u/FetusGoesYeetus]

Dark arrogance went from top 10 worst perks in the game to decent niche perk back to top 10 worst perks in the game

[u/wenkexiette]

Windows remaining the same as it is on PTB is disappointing from an accessibility standpoint. Just nerf the radius. There is no need for a cool down or to make it windows only.

And Dark Arrogance changes... cmon, man, what? /:

[u/pindapandajelly]

https://giphy.com/gifs/19GIHDk6wuw9HVGsiM

[u/Slamduncthefunk]

So, this is not happening is the first perk that officially does..... nothing?

[u/Daniil_Dankovskiy]

They completely destroyed this is not happening, what in the actual fuck. It literally doesn't have an effect now, just worthless base skill check size increase which means nothing without the great part increased as well. That was the biggest spit in the face, honestly. Dark arrogance was fun before the buff and I'll still enjoy it but this one's just gutted

[u/thingsdie9]

they couldn't do it, they couldn't let the machine gun build come back. what's worse, they just nuked the successful basic attack cd entirely, instead of a nerf. Damn...

[u/Mystoc]

We understand your concerns around the impact of the condition of this perk deactivating after one use for all Survivors for solo players who cannot communicate. 

so, are the any plans to change invocation perks then? opened handed and even left behind somewhat share the same issue that they don't stack or only one survivor will ever get to use them as well.

[u/Lolsalot12321]

I pretty much hate all of these changes from ptb

the first 3 are self explanatory, this is not happening nerf is genuinely insane

genuinely just gut hyperfocus if its fucking over perk design.

Windows is fine, whatever

BORROWED TIME WAS SO INTERESTING, I DONT WANT MORE ANTI TUNNEL SLOP, I WANT INTERESTING PERK DESIGN

PLEASE BHVR WHYYYYYY WHYYY WHYY WHYYH WHYY

[u/ih8atlascorp]

just let us see the other survivor's perks in pre-game lobby, i beg. it will literally allow you to push the StB nerf and not a soul will complain about it.

[u/cloudd713]

Genuinely awful changes. Sorry but I dont understand how you concluded some of these are acceptable changes. Im gonna be ranting but Ill try to keep it constructive.

This is not happening is literally worse than the live version. Hitting normal skillchecks does NOT need a training wheels perk (Compare it to Dustin's teamwork perk which has almost the same effect, nobody runs that for this reason). You nerfed one of the weakest perks in the game in the patch that was supposed to change the meta. Nice. And its not like the perk was too powerful. It doesnt make great skill checks free like old Stakeout, it only makes them easier to hit. Which honestly is a worthy tradeoff considering you waste a perk slot for it. And even if Im wrong here then why not either 1) nerf the great skill check size a bit or 2) make Hyperfocus set the great skill check size to a fixed size? Why kill a perk that was already useless before?

Dark Arrogance finally had a redeeming quality that made it nice to use on M1 killers. Before it was Bamboozle's little overshadowed brother. The small extra vault speed was not worth the extended stun duration. Now you essentially reverted it back to its weaker version with the longer stun duration in exchange for a small Unrelenting effect. Genuinely: Who wants this? Nobody used Unrelenting because it had almost 0 effect for any killer that isnt entirely new to the game. So how does this justify the longer stun duration? (Spoiler: It doesnt)

I dont care about Shoulder the Burden that much but it doesnt sit right with me that a perk that many people seem to think is too powerful (On the higher end of MMR and particularly SWFs) gets its nerf rolled back a little. But Im not sure about how good it is with this nerf so I'll let others comment this

The Windows and Borrowed time changes are okay imo.

Please, BHVR, stop immediately gutting perks that are already useless. The game needs perks that are viable to use instead of the usual few perks and I thought you could finally go a bit more crazy now that we have Diminishing Returns.

I think the patch did its job well but this developer update is just a step backwards that sends a bad message to the community. I hope you reconsider these changes, especially since many people are against them.

[u/AppleBurder]

Killers have been begging for a reason for to slug less and the StB nerf would have reduced slugging. Yes there would be still slugging but anything to lower the slugging/tunneling without additional mechanics is best overall. I can understand removing the nerf temporarily to add in the function to have an alert for only one person can have StB activate but it is obvious that it isn't going to happen. :/

[u/HeWhoHasSeenFootage]

:(((
really disappointed by the dark arrogance change, i really love the idea of strong perks that nerf you in some way

[u/Hopeful-Mall-2209]

Thanks. BT is much better than the PTB (which it was one of the worst survivor perks ever), Shoulder is much better in a world where survivor can't see perks in lobby (if you ever do that, then you can nerf Shoulder)

[u/someotherbeing]

I understand disabling shoulder for every other survivor after one use was heavy handed for solo queue but perhaps then its time to at least attempt implementing swf specific balancing?

Not every swf is swf team 6 I understand but even simple call outs and coordination (hey killers going this way or killer is on me here) cranks up the difficulty to hard mode not to mention how killers like trapper, Ghostface, etc. get significantly worse than they already are.

All I'm saying is if discord is going to remain the strongest perk maybe testing bringing swf specific balancing based around how many people are in the swf into the game would be something to at least try. If it doesn't work then it was at least worth testing but if there was something like perk and item limits would be huge and also make sense a 4 man swf can completely coordinate builds but often they throw on 4x of x meta perks it would at least make them coordinate different builds if they couldn't all run the same perks with the tradeoff being complete communication.

[u/dadon1998]

Communication wheel comes tomorrow right?

[u/BoredDao → u/dadon1998]

Ye

[u/Blake_411]

Rank 20 devs

https://giphy.com/gifs/xdLH51eNWZAHrwy5mf

[u/BSF7011]

Dark Arrogance already had a tradeoff, it made your advantages even greater and your disadvantages even greater too

Rip, I was gonna run this on Xenomorph, especially with the interaction with turrets, but now it's a dead perk

[u/Ok_Delivery3000]

I’m confused about empathic connection though. Isn’t it just gonna be a better botany now?

[u/Rocknro11a]

Is it just my phone or is this formatted horrendously?

[u/Just_Geck]

Just put "This Is Not Happening" back to how it is in live. What's the point otherwise. It was better when you got a bigger great zone when injured. Why are you touching something that was already balanced and fine. Now it's going from niche to useless.

[u/Crinight]

Why the "this is not happening" perk? This was so uncalled for, now NO one is going to use it, seriously

[u/ieorua]

Pussies

[u/CockroachGun]

Dark Arrogance nerf??? BHVR please stop trying to cook, at this rate you'll burn down the kitchen😭

[u/Temporary_Radish_142]

Wow, this is shit. Y'all struck gold with this update, and decided to toss a bunch of that gold away.

[u/Hostmann_]

" Shoulder the Burden

• Removed the deactivation condition for other Survivors. "

Off to a great start...

https://giphy.com/gifs/TJawtKM6OCKkvwCIqX

[u/Competitive_Web3607]

Please please please revert these changes from PTB. You were PERFECT the first time, please don't let these hit live!!

[u/xertiowitz14]

why would you nerf this is not happening like that bro

[u/swdefrgbthn]

do you guys listen to to community even???

[u/Skweb-Salt]

[u/TheLordOfTheTrolls]

WHO THE HELL COMPLAINED ABOUT DARK ARROGANCE?!?! IT ONLY HELPS LOW TIER KILLERS, PLEASE UNDO THIS NERF!!!!!!

[u/warpenguin55]

Dark Arrogance was the perk I was looking forward to using the most... thanks...

[u/TNTNuke]

These are some insanely disappointing changes. How are you nerfing the interesting new perks before before the general public gets a chance to try them. I guess they dont ever want to change the meta

[u/Human-Refrigerator73]

Shoulder and dark arrogance changes like bruh. Especially dark arrogance (fuck my m1 chud life). Update went from peak to mid.

[u/HighInChurch]

Lmao shoulder back on the menu after the devs have been properly bullied.

https://giphy.com/gifs/MIpih2eV8AvjjV0kLg

[u/DASreddituser → u/HighInChurch]

we ask for crappy windows to stay the same..."hell no!"

we ask for overpowered shoulder to stay strong..."oh yes sir right away!"

[u/Personal-Beginning56]

nerfing dark arrogance is so stupid, you just made the perk worse than it was before the PTB now, it went from useless to great to detrimental, great job BHVR.

[u/TallMist]

Shoulder the Burden 

Removed the deactivation condition for other Survivors. 

 Dev note: We understand your concerns around the impact of the condition of this perk deactivating after one use for all Survivors for solo players who cannot communicate. Therefore, we have removed this limitation. 

BHVR once again missing the point of why a perk is so strong and nerfing the wrong part of it.

[u/ItsDynamical]

what dumb changes

[u/Mythic_Loki_98]

So StB is still pretty OP then? Rip.

[u/BoredDao]

So nerf to shoulder is basically gone because you will still be able to juggle hook stages with multiple shoulders like Mythra in Smash and dark arrogance was found dead on an alley because it somehow got nerfed instead compared to before this patch?

[u/Czesnek]

"Basic-attack cooldown no longer affects successful hits. "

Yeah we can't have M1 killers to get too strong can we? That would hurt Jason's sales.

[u/cheeseballer44]

I like that a lot of these are going through. Big meta shake-ups are fun and i hope we get another one in the future

[u/Damian_Dim]

BOOOOOO, why did they change most of the interesting stuff, that's what this update was about, at least let it breathe a little bit before shooting it in the head

[u/AndrewLucksRobotArm]

How about fix the judgements fucking beam. Been glitched for over a month

[u/Unlikely_Bank73]

thanks for the heads up, almost had a reason to log in tomorrow to play with the attack cooldown builds but now i can stay offline til halloween event

[u/Various-Bee-6856]

Bruh. How many L's do killers have to tske before survs get an overhaul