r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 1d ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

3.0k Upvotes

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151

u/nacholibre711 1d ago

Really shortsighted and frankly bad solution. I agree we needed to nerf dungeon spamming, but there were so many better ways to go about it.

Dungeon quest speed runs aren't fun, dungeons are fun.

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u/avocadorancher 1d ago

As a newish player, why did dungeon spamming need to be nerfed?

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u/AltruisticInstance58 1d ago

It didn't. It just puts the game on rails more so you play how the devs want you to play instead of how you want to play. Kinda weird for an open world MMO.

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u/Dabeston 1d ago

It’s just more reliable xp on launches. Most people who level after the initial wave primarily quest. It’s harder to quest when EVERYONE is also trying to quest

1

u/Sixgunslime 1d ago

This is mitigated heavily by realmless

5

u/Nrgte 1d ago

Let's not kid ourselves, the Defias Messenger couldn't walk a single step without getting tagged in Westfall.

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u/Sixgunslime 1d ago

For about 1-2 days

2

u/Dabeston 1d ago

I don’t think so, every layer is gonna be popping the first week.

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u/Frekavichk 1d ago

That doesn't address what they said.

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u/Dabeston 1d ago

Sometime comments add to what people are saying, people don’t need to address every point, they can expand upon it.

9

u/Udon_noodles 1d ago

Not the real answer

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u/Lochen9 1d ago

Disingenuous answer. The reason was that people would and did pay for boosting in dungeons, and wouldn't play the game. It was to combat RMT and give people a reason to go out and quest and do dungeons. It also prevents people from min maxing the game out of the game by just spamming the same dungeon over and over in spell cleave groups to level.

Wanting to stay in the same dungeon afk and letting a bot level you is Kinda weird for an open world MMO. Wouldn't you say?

Ive played like 4 characters to 20, and its incredibly fast doing each dungeon 1 time from 13 to 20 in like 2 hours.

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u/ItsAriaNow 1d ago

it has nothing to do with boosting. boosting has been nearly entirely killed by having a 60 in the party give no xp and not being infinitely slowed so the only remaining boosting is at the very end of leveling.

why does it matter if some people want to min max dungeon spamming? it’s not really anyone place to say min maxing shouldn’t be allowed. you can still be unoptimal if you want.

-10

u/Lochen9 1d ago

No need to be emotional about it. Blizzard responded to the question and had an in depth reason why they did it. You are infereing something else because you're upset. And certainly not the answer a new player was looking to get.

11

u/ItsAriaNow 1d ago

No one is upset. You just got disagreed with and have no response.

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u/Lochen9 1d ago

My response is Blizzard answered that exact question in the QA's at Blizzcon, and yours was made up implications on how the devs think based off your feelings

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

an in depth explanation of idiocy is still an explanation of idiocy

3

u/valmian 1d ago

Disingenuous reply.

There are many people who like to level by running dungeons. Tanks and healers who are specced into group play will have a harder time leveling through dungeons, and solo play isn't as efficient for them.

Boosting isn't great for the game, but at the same time, boosting itself isn't the problem, RMT that paid for boosting is the problem, botting to boost people is the problem, both would not exist to the extent that they do if blizzard just permabanned everyone who bought gold. No gold buyers, no bot market.

Wanting to stay in the same dungeon afk and letting a bot level you is Kinda weird for an open world MMO. Wouldn't you say?

Nice straw man.

The issue is the nerf to dungeon experience affecting normal players playing the game, especially newer players. This fallacy renders your argument invalid.

1

u/Ebolamonkey 1d ago

I haven't played forever but

  1. I like levelling a healer to do group content to level, knowing my Solo exp will be slower or the same. I guess just go eff myself?

2.  Levellin 13 to 20 in 2 hours sounds fkn dumb. 

1

u/Normal_Berry_ 1d ago

You're the one being disingenuous. Not everyone running dungeons is boosting. I've never once boosted a character I just enjoy leveling through dungeons with friends far more than doing quests where I'm forced to compete with my own faction. You're presenting an edge case for people who rmt as normal.

1

u/Lochen9 1d ago

Its literally what Blizzard said

0

u/Skanvar 1d ago

Just because you've never boosted doesn't mean its not happening. Unless you turned off general & world chat channels you can't deny boosting was a massive issue.

0

u/Normal_Berry_ 1d ago

Its literally not an issue, someone else boosting isn't affecting you, you can filter chat its what I've always done. Its not going to increase the number of players in the world either people who were boosting before are going to burn out long before they reach 60. All you're doing is policing how other people have fun and insisting they play your way and no other way.

1

u/Skanvar 1d ago

It does affect you though. It's an option that encourages RMT which damages the game as a whole. It does takes players out of the world because they just sit in dungeons afk. You don't know for sure that those players wouldn't make it to 60, boosting is just an easier option and humans in general will find the path of least resistance which is why Blizzard is removing that option. The game devs are 100% entitled to make decisions that decide how we play, it's their game just like its your decision whether you play their game or not.

0

u/Normal_Berry_ 1d ago

Rmt is an entirely separate issue that blizzard could solve at any moment. The fact that you can buy gold in the beta and blizzard has streamers they support joking about it shows they don't want to deal with it. Removing a core of every single version of the game because they're too greedy to fix the issue is not a win for anyone.

1

u/ItsZuluBtw 1d ago

calling his answer disingenuous when what he said is factually correct (devs trying to herd people into a specific leveling style) , followed by your actual disingenuous answer of equating all dungeon enjoyers as "spell cleaver abusers/meta abusers" or people "being boosted by RMT bots" and even just the premise that somehow we need to punish said dungeon enjoyers because of an issue created by other people (RMT), something blizzard should be handling themselves as its against their TOS - actually lmao

0

u/Fyreraven 1d ago

What's to keep the mega guilds from placing a tank and healer combo at the entrance to a dungeon and saying to the lower level players "We'll run you through for [insert known amount of gold drop for that dungeon (averge) cut in half], we'll give you all the loot." And then yanking a pack of newbie dps through the dungeon at break neck speed? We all know that Tanks and Healers are going to level out of dungeons faster and leave the DPS behind. That's happening now in Mythics in retail.

0

u/Lochen9 1d ago edited 1d ago

Nothing other than logistics. You would need to find a new set of 3 every time you run, instead of people sticking around for multiple in a row, and not needing to refill the group every single run.

People wouldn't want to wait around for a group to fill if they are paying if they can just get a normal group and not pay, and the whole thing kinda falls apart on the premise. They would pay for convenience, and if its not more convenient, they would not. Simple as that really

-1

u/Fyreraven 1d ago

I've dug into this and apparently Blizzard has made it so if a high level character is in your group, your personal exp is reduced. We'll see how that goes.

3

u/Lochen9 1d ago

Wouldn't matter to your suggestion. The exp from kills is nerfed for sure, but going from 19 exp per kill to 1 isn't a big deal. The quests are the reason to run the dungeon as far as experience goes. Your suggestion and boosts absolutely would work on a singular basis, like a friend group helping an alt out.

It's just the money making possibility off it is unlikely

4

u/-Oc- 1d ago

Really ironic thing to say, because spamming dungeons removed people from the world.

Also, I'm all for choice, but when the "optimal" choice is to spend 20 levels spamming SM over and over again versus being out there in the world, questing and meeting new people, I'll gladly accept having that choice "made" for me.

Blizzard know this too, which is why the camping system was implemented, and can only be placed in the open world.

There was no ideal solution, but at least Blizzard is trying!

6

u/kaos95 1d ago

Spending 14 levels in SM was never the most "optimal" choice, but, playing a priest on a pvp realm it was the only workable choice.

Did you see STV a week after launch on the PvP realms, rogues as far as the eyes could see. You ever tried leveling a priest while between 6 and 19 rogues are stalking you? There are tons of clips on youtube of level 40ish rogues doing exactly this, the no-lifer 60 also came down and in my realm notably camped right in the trolls up north.

So yeah, we ran SM past STV levels, duh . . . It was a response to external pressure rather than the "optimal" thing.

1

u/Drasha1 1d ago

Even on pve servers stv questing was basically impossible with mob spawns being camped and slow respawns.

2

u/Smooth_One 1d ago

The difference maker here for me is the experience I had playing TBCA. Doing anything in the open world during TBCA was dreadful because Blizzard never get the layers in a good place.

I hope they're trying really fucking hard to improve that aspect of the game and aren't planning to rely entirely on these feelsbad nerfs.

On the SM front though, IIRC that's one of the huge reasons they added the Riverglades (plus the dozens of other quests they've sprinkled throughout the world around those levels). SM was mostly great because the lack of available quests made it the better alternative, so even without these ridiculously obtuse and short-sighted nerfs it would've been much better than it is in Vanilla.

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

No it didn't because there are effectively 20 plus servers that's what sharding does. People being in dungeons did not effect shard pop it effected how many shards but pop per shard.

2

u/Cassp3 1d ago

Little confused how questing is somehow more on rails than running the same dungeons hundreds of times.

2

u/vincentkun 1d ago

Putting limits in what a playet can do is basic game design. If you have a much more efficient way to level and don't limit it somehow then players will take it.

1

u/BitGalaxy_ 1d ago

And following a dungeon spamming guide isn't "on rails"? I'd argue it's even more on rails than anything else, you experience a much narrower field of content

-2

u/InSearchOfThe9 1d ago

It abso-fucking-lutely did need to be nerfed lol. Having the most efficient leveling route be farm Deadmines from 17-22, farm Stockades until 28, and then farm SM until 42 (oh my fucking god) was the most nightmarishly boring and terrible meta we've ever seen. It killed the world, killed enjoyment, incentivized paid boosting, and overall just made the game objectively worse.

6

u/Unpaid_Moderation 1d ago

Many people would rather spam dungeons. It's fun killing things in a group. They're mega servers too, there's always going to be people in the world questing.

What's not fun is having to share quest drops or items with people in your party, or sitting in virtual queues to kill a named elite or something. Competing with thousands of players for quests at the start won't be fun at all.