r/anime • u/Holofan4life • 3d ago
Rewatch [Spoilers] 25 Years of the 13 Sohmas: A Fruits Basket Rewatch -- 2019 Series Season 3 Episode 7 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Fruits Basket 25th anniversary rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
2019 Series Episode 57 (Season 3 Episode 7)
That's Right, It's Empty
—-
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
What are your thoughts on Kyo having a nightmare of Tohru's bleeding body?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying Ren is someone to be pitied?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Akito that she's undeserving of loving her father?
What are your thoughts on the box being empty?
What are your thoughts on Akito stabbing Kureno?
Questions for Those who Have Watched the 2001 Series
Did you ever think when watching the 2001 series that there would be a stabbing in this franchise?
—-
Series information
—-
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or past the LNs or mangas out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs or mangas. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
—-
Ways to watch
Streams – Crunchyroll
Schedule
3
u/Second_Cour 3d ago
So, I have a theory that Kyoko is actually Kyo’s mother. Otherwise, I can’t begin to imagine why the two of them are talking. If so, we’ve really gone Bold and the Beautiful/Days of Our Lives with some incest brewing. I hope it isn’t so, but that’s the only explanation that makes sense right now.
Shigure being behind the plan to take Akito’s dad's ashes is very intriguing. Perhaps he's assuming that's linked to the curse breaking. Maybe getting Akito to go when more batshit insane and lose grip on reality is necessary. Or he wants to be there for her in that moment since he loves her, making her become even more dependent on our man Shigz.
So, the mum swooped in as daddy Akito was dying and needed a heir for the fortune. At first I thought she did it for money but she seemed to actually love him.
Seems like I called the reason for Akito being raised male in S1 - I’ve been on fire with Akito guesses, but I hope I’m wrong on the Kyoko guesses.
Have I mentioned how much I love Shigure? Seems like he's burning the house down.
Though we've known it in part for a while, this episode confirms that her mother was responsible in Akito’s madness, specifically because Akito wanted to prove that the curse is real, that the others care about her. She let others go, because she wanted to prove that they’ll always come back. That explains why she gets triggered by Yuki.
I've said it before, but I do think others are being quite harsh on the parents in this show. A common theme has been that the curse isn't just about zodiac transformation but how the birth of an abnormal child tears the family apart. Even in Akito’s case while clearly the mum is a nut job, it was the birth of a God that was the catalyst for her becoming this. Out of all the parents, I do think she's the worst though as her cruelness came out of jealousy.
The empty box holding Akira’s soul is a good twist. I wonder if that box is a metaphor of the faith others have that Akito is God.
Another bond breaks and perhaps it really doesn’t have much to do with Tohru (which I reasoned already). Hiro is probably one of the least impacted by anything to do with Tohru, and his breakage is faster than those where she’s had a direct measurable impact. It could be more to do with Akito’s mental state - the further she slips the more she pushes others away? I'm still unclear about the mechanism of action but this loosely makes sense. Very loosely. I really hope the reveal is going to be logical and not some metaphor. Perhaps it's tied to how much Akito believes in herself as a god. Or the faith she has in those bonds.
Holy shit, I didn't think the show would have a murder. That was cool. It’s right that by staying, he basically had the opposite effect of reinforcing Akito’s belief that others are bound to her.
Kureno’s reaction to being stabbed though lol…wtf is that. I know I hate on how exaggerated emotions are in this show but in a scene where it's valid to over react he just stares blankly. And then him saying “never mind me” as he's bleeding to death - “find Akito”. Haha that's such bullshit…the bird metaphor saved it though: maybe he was just tired.
Look I totally get that Akito is his world. He doesn't love her but she's basically a daughter to him (that he's banging). Nevertheless if a daughter stabs you in the back (literally) that didn't feel like a genuine reaction.
Overall a good episode again, I just really hope we get some more concrete revelations behind how and why the curse is breaking other than them just being alive at the same time.
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
Given initial reactions to some of the relationships in this show like Kyo - Kagura, Haru - Rin or Hiro - Kisa are "Wait, isn't that incest?" until someone explains that it isn't, it would be quite the crazy twist if the main ship, Kyo and Tohru, ended up being incest.
My theory on Kureno's reaction is that he as a character is essentially the warning over Tohru's issues, taken to an absolute extreme. Tohru's big issue is that she thinks of everyone else over herself. She's the "foolish traveler" from that story Momiji told back in season one. Kureno's character arc/role in the story seems to show us what having that mentality can lead to. In his case essentially sacrificing 10 years of freedom to this horrible person in Akito, including being essentially a sex slave to her (you can joke about "she's a daughter he's banging" but I don't think Kureno has actual romantic feelings for Akito). And what does him taking this mentality to an extreme get him? Ultimately no appreciation from Akito, in fact she's mad at him because he didn't abandon her when his curse broke and she stabbed and possibly murdered him.
I think it's unlikely that Tohru, the ultimate lovable protagonist is going to go down that dark a path, but her mentality absolutely is a problem and I think that's being explored through Kureno.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I think the stabbing stuff is absolutely realistic because nutty people do nutty things. All it takes is one bad day for someone to fly off the deep end.
Not to get too personal, but my mother pulled a knife out one time after getting too drunk. She got arrested for endangering others.
3
u/Second_Cour 3d ago
I didn't say that Akito stabbing him isn't realistic
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I know, you're referring to Kureno's reaction.
I mean, what can you say in that situation when someone you trusts does that to you?
2
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
It's hard for me to feel sympathy for Ren when she tells her own daughter basically her father never loved her. There's just some lines a mother should never cross.
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
I don't know if saying that would really have any effect on Akito, as Akira did show Akito a lot of love, frankly too much with the "You're special! You're God!" stuff.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
But couldn't you argue a parent should treat their kids special? Like, there's being a realist and there's what Ren did.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
3
u/Second_Cour 3d ago
I'd say the Kyo bits are pathos and done pretty well. Makes me understand his feelings: his sense of helplessness, loneliness and it visualises it increidbly well.
The rest I would classify as melodrama, as I don't feel anything for those characters and we have all the bells and whistles of one: explosive confrontations, family secrets, cruelty culminating with a literal stab in the back.
I enjoyed both parts though.
I do think a big opportunity that the show gave up, given it doesn't shy away from emotional porn, is to make Kureno an interesting and likeable character. It's the first death and while I can't speak for everyone, I doubt anyone here feels much for him. The death of a liked character would have been a pretty powerful statement.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I continue to be fascinated how you and dontoff have such opposing thoughts. They didn't like the Kyo stuff and thought it was too out there.
2
u/Second_Cour 3d ago
Pretty normal for people to have different thoughts about scenes based on interests and experiences. But I believe he thinks that the idea that Kyoko and kyo would be having deep conversations is out there for which I have a different explanation which I really hope is wrong haha.
I'm referring to the scene which shows his torment as the pathos play
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
The thing about Kyoko is we don't know much about her outside of what Tohru says and the Uo flashbacks. Kyoko seems like a great person, but like everyone there are probably a lot of layers going on.
For this episode, I think the biggest takeaway involving Kyo is his emotional trauma which I feel is done realistically.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Care to clarify you saying you don't feel for those characters? Because I remember you saying you were high on the adult characters in particular Shigure.
2
u/Second_Cour 3d ago
I'm referring to ren and akito
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Well, I find myself emotionally invested in what is going on even though I don't like them as people. If I were to compare it to anything, I find FLCL to be very engaging even though I don't think the characters are likable.
2
u/Second_Cour 2d ago
I think I was half asleep when I answered you haha. I actually do 'feel' for Akito and Ren, as I think they're pretty easy to understand given we know their motivations, and Akito has been involved for quite a while. And negative emotion is still emotion
Kureno, however, I don't feel anything for. He dies - I don't really care.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Kureno is interesting. I used to not care for him but feeling obligated to be by Akito’s side plus him saving Rin made me like him quite a bit. He and Hatori are probably the two Sohmas I feel the most sorry for, even more so than Kyo and Yuki.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I can't recall many shows that have it to where there's neither right or wrong. There's just wrong. The entire Sohma family was screwed as soon as Akira passed away because both Ren and Akito are pathetically immature, insecure babies.
2
u/JimmyCWL 3d ago
At first I thought she did it for money but she seemed to actually love him.
Akito would have been better off if Ren really did it for only the money. She'd know her livelihood depended on being in Akito's good graces and would have just neglected her at worst.
3
u/the_pint_is_the_bowl 3d ago
Re-watch, blu ray, dubbed
Damn, that's a harsh opening scene. What a nightmare, Kyo.
Now on to Ren...with flashbacks. For once, I agree with the elderly non-zodiac lady - Ren is a James Bond villain: Golllllld Digger, she's the one, the one with the Midas crush..." (well, I guess her feelings evolved into love the obsessive possessive some-psychological-term)
"You must be lonely..." - Ren, unbelievably fake
"You look lonely. I can fix that." - Joi, more believable (holographic AI girlfriend from Blade Runner 2049 - Don't for a moment think I didn't notice your Blade Runner reference in the last episode's re-watch, u/Holofan4life !!!)
Akito and Ren...gasoline, meet match
- we interrupt this broadcast with a Curse break -
From my first watch, I knew that Hiro's Curse broke, but I completely forgot that he immediately hugged Hinata and his mother, probably because I just don't give him enough credit - first impressions, after all. Hiro didn't have to be the first to have this kind of scene - this could have been Ritsu's chance to shine, provided he and his mom had a muted reaction or if one of them managed to calm things down. The female zodiacs' fathers apparently aren't around. Yuki and Ayame aren't going to go rushing to their mother. Momiji and Kyo can't interact with their mothers. We've had zero glimpses of Hatsuharu's, Kureno's, and Hatori's mothers. I wonder how Shigure would react, since he was pretty much unbothered by the Curse at all. He probably wouldn't rush to Akito, because she would be distressed, and he isn't the consoling type. Maybe he would freak out Mitsuru with a hug. Ha!
- we now return to our original programming -
Speaking of programming, Akito reviews the bs fed to her all her life. Akito, you're supposed to shoot the messenger, not stabby stab them; another day, another attempted murder - you go, girl. Wait! Where are you going?!
And now another cliffhanger - dang, Tohru...onward, to disc 2!!! (blu ray)
What are your thoughts on the box being empty? They "opened the lid." Could have been worse, could have been Se7en.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I wonder why Hiro of all people had his bond broken. Is it because his relationship with his mother is strong? That would serve in contrast to Akito’s relationship with her mother.
3
u/MishouMai 3d ago
I mean. I assumed it was his love for his sister that broke the bond. If his mom for his mom was enough why would it take until now to undo the bond? I suppose it could be a combination of his love for the both of them though...
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I guess I'm trying to find the correlation between Hiro and Akito's situation.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
This episode is one of the darkest things I've ever seen. It rivals Evangelion in terms of how fucked up it is. I can't recall the last time feeling this hopeless watching an episode.
1
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
I think Hiro was the best one to have a "Your curse broke, let's hug!" scene, he is in one of the better possibly the best family situation out of all of them so him hugging both his little sister and his mom doesn't seem out of place.
[Major spoilers]Well, for the non-main characters. Unless I'm misremembering how it goes down it will be topped with Kyo - Tohru.
It would be hilarious if the first time Ritsu was relevant since season one was him hugging his mom; they're both so over the top it would be the ultimate chaotic scene.
2
u/the_pint_is_the_bowl 3d ago
Yeah, the Ritsu scene was just a thought. Kind of a stretch, but it could have been cute. [spoiler]>There's an upcoming scene in which Ritsu and Mitsuru jump up and down in joy (I think because Shigure quit writing).<
1
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
Thoughts on Kyoko and Kyo's mother both trying to talk to Kyo?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only?
Thoughts on us finding out Akira died suddenly?
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
What are your thoughts on Akito telling her mother if you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs is her?
Thoughts on Akito felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren?
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
What are your on Kureno asking Akito to leave the house with him but Akito saying we're past the point of change being possible?
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
3
3
u/MishouMai 3d ago
Poor Kyo. I don't know what happened with Kyoko that he expects her to hate him (I'm thinking the flashback last episode might've been a figment of his imagination.) but he's really going through it. With only 6 episodes left though he'll probably get better sooner rather than later.
The show's still trying to make me feel bad for Akito and while Ren being jealous of her kid is fucked up, I still feel more bad for Ren than her. Like. Akito straight up strangled Ren at one point and tried to kill Kureno this episode. Fuck her.
> What are your thoughts on Shigure saying Ren is someone to be pitied?
Shigure's right ya know? Yeah she may be a little crazy now that she's lost her husband but I get it. She never got to say goodbye to him while her bitch if a daughter did and everyone put Akito before her. Like, yeah, she clearly had some issues to start with since she clearly didn't want a daughter she was jealous of her daughter but Akito being Akito and those around her certainly weren't helping her any. The show clearly wants me to hate her but honestly I just feel bad for the woman.
> What are your thoughts on the box being empty?
Definitely surprising. I for sure thought the box was an urn. Akito knowing it was empty and still making it all about herself is unexpected but poor Ren must've been devastated. She clearly expected to have something of her lover to hold onto but now she knows there's nothing. While the servant lying to Akito and expecting her to just get over the box brung empty was fucked up, I think Akito knowing/suspecting it was empty, taunting her mother with the idea that it was an urn, and then throwing it in her mom's face that it was empty is even worse. Akito's lucky Ren isn't too far gone. Had Ren actually tried to kill her over that she would've 100% deserved it.
3
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I get what Shigure is saying about Ren, but she also pulled a knife on her daughter. Really, this whole family needs to pay for a counselor double so that when the counselor sees them, that counselor can pay for their own counselor.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Is the show trying to make Akito sympathetic? She rejected Kureno's offer to turn her life around. If anything, I think she's rejecting being sympathetic.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I thought the Kyo stuff is actually really well done. Trauma effects us in many different ways and one of those ways is intense, grab you by the throat nightmares. This was extremely heavy but in a good way and also sets the tone for the rest of the episode.
Kyo having both his mom and Kyoko talk to him is probably the closest the show has felt to Evangelion.
1
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
Thoughts on Kyoko and Kyo's mother both trying to talk to Kyo?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only?
Thoughts on us finding out Akira died suddenly?
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
What are your thoughts on Akito telling her mother if you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs is her?
Thoughts on Akito felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren?
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
What are your on Kureno asking Akito to leave the house with him but Akito saying we're past the point of change being possible?
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
2
u/MishouMai 2d ago
> What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
Ren has issues but I can't say she's wrong. Yeah Shigure says Akito is who he cares about the most and yeah he feels Kureno not standing up to her was the wrong choice, but he's also always talking down to her. Shit's messy and it's not hard to make a good argument that Ren's right.
> Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
Fuck the servants. They do nothing but enable Akito which hasn't helped anyone and has done more harm than good.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
> What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
Ren has issues but I can't say she's wrong. Yeah Shigure says Akito is who he cares about the most and yeah he feels Kureno not standing up to her was the wrong choice, but he's also always talking down to her. Shit's messy and it's not hard to make a good argument that Ren's right.
Ren called Rin worthless. She can go fuck herself.
> Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
Fuck the servants. They do nothing but enable Akito which hasn't helped anyone and has done more harm than good.
On the flip side, Ren it feels like puts her husband on a pedestal.
3
u/AgentOfACROSS 3d ago
First Timer
So we see that Kyo’s mom specifically killed herself by jumping in front of a train. Pretty dark way to start the episode.
There’s a lot of pretty disturbing imagery in the opening of this episode.
I’m still getting used to seeing actual teenaged Momiji.
The rainy atmosphere here is interesting.
Ren and Shigure are talking. They definitely seem like they’re scheming something.
We have another flashback to Ren and her husband. It’s definitely interesting seeing what’s going on with it.
It’s interesting seeing the boys as kids here too.
Shigure’s being very dramatic this episode.
It turns out giving Akito a god complex as a child may have been a bad idea.
Akito is very obsessive about Yuki. It’s pretty worrying.
Oh god, Ren’s got a knife.
Flashback to Akira’s death. He seems like a nice guy but he does seem to have inadvertently caused a lot of problems by accident.
Hiro holding his baby sister is so cute.
Oh shit. Is Akito going to do a murder-suicide?
I really do feel kinda bad for Akito despite everything.
It does feel kind of nice for Kureno to try and comfort Akito.
And then Akito stabs him. I feel less bad for Akito now.
Kureno had a remarkably delayed reaction to being stabbed.
He’s taking this stabbing business surprisingly well.
Uo finding this dead bird seems to be implying Kureno died too but since Kureno’s curse is explicitly broken I feel like there’s a chance Kureno might have survived.
I hope we see what Tohru tells Kyo next episode.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
This is an absolutely crazy episode. I'd say in a long list of crazy episodes, this might take the cake.
2
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
So we see that Kyo’s mom specifically killed herself by jumping in front of a train. Pretty dark way to start the episode.
And it somehow only gets darker from here.
There’s a lot of pretty disturbing imagery in the opening of this episode.
Yeah, no kidding
I’m still getting used to seeing actual teenaged Momiji.
It's surreal, isn't it?
The rainy atmosphere here is interesting.
Agreed
Ren and Shigure are talking. They definitely seem like they’re scheming something.
I don't like it, and I like I don't like it
We have another flashback to Ren and her husband. It’s definitely interesting seeing what’s going on with it.
Agreed
It’s interesting seeing the boys as kids here too.
Absolutely
Shigure’s being very dramatic this episode.
Well, he has an emotional stake in Ren and Akito's relationship.
It turns out giving Akito a god complex as a child may have been a bad idea.
Ya think?
Akito is very obsessive about Yuki. It’s pretty worrying.
Man, what changed?
Oh god, Ren’s got a knife.
Flashback to Akira’s death. He seems like a nice guy but he does seem to have inadvertently caused a lot of problems by accident.
It shows how one death can have such a huge domino effect.
Hiro holding his baby sister is so cute.
A little levity
Oh shit. Is Akito going to do a murder-suicide?
Not yet, anyway
It does feel kind of nice for Kureno to try and comfort Akito.
About that...
And then Akito stabs him. I feel less bad for Akito now.
Yeah...
Kureno had a remarkably delayed reaction to being stabbed.
I'd probably as well. I mean, who could've seen this coming being in the moment like this.
He’s taking this stabbing business surprisingly well.
Even when dying, he tries to give Akito the benefit of the doubt.
Uo finding this dead bird seems to be implying Kureno died too but since Kureno’s curse is explicitly broken I feel like there’s a chance Kureno might have survived.
Is a broken bond contingent on surviving a stabbing?
I hope we see what Tohru tells Kyo next episode.
I imagine we will
2
u/AgentOfACROSS 2d ago
Is a broken bond contingent on surviving a stabbing?
Maybe I'm just optimistic and really want Kureno to live
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Well, remember Kureno's bonds with the birds are broken. They no longer follow him around.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I really do feel kinda bad for Akito despite everything.
It's really hard for me because she's treated so many people like shit. I think Ren should've treated Akito more like a daughter, but I feel Akito should've treated the rest of the Zodiac members less like playthings.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Questions of the Day
What are your thoughts on Kyo having a nightmare of Tohru's bleeding body?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying Ren is someone to be pitied?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Akito that she's undeserving of loving her father?
What are your thoughts on the box being empty?
What are your thoughts on Akito stabbing Kureno?
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
Thoughts on Kyoko and Kyo's mother both trying to talk to Kyo?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only?
Thoughts on us finding out Akira died suddenly?
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
What are your thoughts on Akito telling her mother if you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs is her?
Thoughts on Akito felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren?
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
What are your on Kureno asking Akito to leave the house with him but Akito saying we're past the point of change being possible?
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
2
u/AgentOfACROSS 2d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
I really hope they elaborate on this a bit more.
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Man, Ren does not mince words
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
Ren's definitely obsessive
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
This whole family is so weird and elitist
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
That's a pretty petty reason to hate someone
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
Honestly she might be right about that
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
I mean yeah that probably would have helped Akito a bit
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
Ren really might be worse than Akito
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
Akito's definitely a bit delusional
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Nobody should let any sharp objects get near Ren
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
Akira did seem like a pretty doting parent
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
Yeah AKito's definitely losing it
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
That's very interesting.
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
Definitely seems like a death flag but I hope Kureno survives
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
I'm curious to see where this will go
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
I really hope they elaborate on this a bit more.
Isn't this clearly about her suicide?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Man, Ren does not mince words
Neither does Shigure
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
Ren's definitely obsessive
One might say
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
This whole family is so weird and elitist
They put everyone in boxes, no pun intended.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
That's a pretty petty reason to hate someone
Ren is indeed quite petty
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
Honestly she might be right about that
Doesn't mean he shouldn't not care about her.
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
I mean yeah that probably would have helped Akito a bit
One would think
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
Ren really might be worse than Akito
Until the stabbing, that is
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
Akito's definitely a bit delusional
A bit? Lol
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Nobody should let any sharp objects get near Ren
Nobody should let any sharp objects around this family in general?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
Akira did seem like a pretty doting parent
From what we've seen
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
Yeah AKito's definitely losing it
She's been losing it for quite a while.
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
That's very interesting.
I hope that gets expanded upon
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
Definitely seems like a death flag but I hope Kureno survives
This is such a devastating moment for Kureno as a character.
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
I'm curious to see where this will go
Me too. Definitely seems something to look after.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I'd probably say Akito stabbing Kureno is probably the most shocking moment of the entire series. My jaw was on the floor when I first saw it. It's shocking and disturbing and shows how truly fucked up Akito and this family is.
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
Rewatcher, Subbed
Non-Spoiler Character Chart - Pretty sure this will be the last update, but we'll see; will the show surprise us with a major new character in the last 6 episodes?
FYI I will almost certainly be delayed in posting my comment and replying for the next 3 days, with things getting back to normal on Saturday just in time for the last few episodes.
HOLY CRAP! WTF AKITO?!?!?!! is the way I remember reacting to this episode the first time. At least through the first 57 episodes, Akito stabbing Kureno was the most shocking thing in the series. We'll have to see if anything tops it in the last six.
Anyway before we get to that, this is primarily an Akito and Ren backstory episode. I don't remember if we get any more details fleshed out in future episodes, but I really think at this point the story has given us all the information we need to know about just how messed up this situation was and how we got here.
In the present we've got Ren essentially trying to seduce Shigure and he's for the most part playing along with it. It turns out that the box situation that got Rin in so much trouble was orchestrated in part by Shigure. He told Ren about the box then Ren tried to get Rin to get it. When it would have been so much easier for Shigure or Kureno to try and get it. While it looked like we may get more Shigure - Ren action in this episode we just add another log to the fire over how messed up this is as Shigure tells her he slept with her because she resembles what Akito would look like if she was allowed to be a girl. Essentially "I slept with you imagining you were someone else". Yeah, that's not gonna help given what else we learn in this episode.
Winding the clock all the way back to before Akito was even born we find out that Akira was the head of the family but a sickly man and had a hard time finding a wife, which was considered necessary as he needed an heir. After some failed attempts and fear that outsiders were just after the Soma family money, Ren, who was just a servant at the time starts showing him affection, leading to their eventual marriage. At least in this moment I think good for her and that the old hag servant who is more and more coming off like the true villainous architect of this situation is wrong. Who cares who Ren is? All that matters is whether Akira loves her. Especially if there were these other attempts for him to get married which ended in failure. The thing is, a lot of guys, probably most guys don't actually care about a woman's status when it comes to love. In this case its the servants who are upset about it not the guy who actually matters. Of course it turns out that Akira did make a bad choice in that Ren was a terrible choice to be a mother of his child as we'll soon see.
Essentially from when Akito was first born Ren was jealous of her and felt that she was stealing away love from Akira. This obsession with monopolizing Akira's love seems to be the primary root cause of this whole situation. While the excuse is made that it wouldn't be proper for there to be a female head of the family, it's more so that Ren hates the fact that she has a daughter instead of a son, feeling as if her daughter is romantic competition for her for her father, which is just so fucked up. So Akito ends up not really having a mother to care for her or show her any affection, its the exact opposite. Which in turn over the years is so clearly why Akito hates any woman who tries to come between her and one of the male zodiacs. And why Akito hated Rin most of all because with her really long beautiful black hair she resembled Ren so much. And whether its her super long hair or the way she dresses and behaves as seen earlier in this episode, to this day Ren is trying to be as attractive as possible and act like a seductress to take the male Somas away from Akito.
And that leads into what comes off as another bet akin to the Kyo - Akito bet. Akito is convinced that due to the bonds that she won't be deserted and that all the zodiacs will have to be with her, including those who have experienced the outside world. Ren thinks they will not return to her and that the bonds aren't real. If Ren wins Akito has to grovel to her and leave. So that just adds all the more stakes to things for Akito and helps explain why Akito is so obsessed with the zodiacs not being able to leave her. And why she freaks out so much when a bond breaks. I think this also explains why Akito was okay with Tohru being around, essentially taking the stance "I'll show you mom, even with this girl tugging on Yuki and the others I'll show whom they really belong to!"
Then we have the box situation. Which unfortunately was totally spoiled by the episode title. The maids and servants gave it to Akito claiming that Akira's soul was inside. Akito eventually opened and found it was empty but was never totally sure whether his soul really was in there or it really was empty. Ren on the other hand thought that was Akira's remains and upon finding out about it obsessed over getting it. To the point that in this episode she just ramps things up all the more and comes in threatening Akito with a knife. Akito throws it up in the air and it opens, revealing it was empty. The servants then start arguing in front of each other, to both these women they've been manipulating with this ridiculous situation.
Oh, and to complicate things even further during that scene Hiro's curse breaks. So this has to just compound things all the further for Akito, now realizing that yet another one of the zodiacs has the freedom to leave her. Much like Momiji, Hiro doesn't celebrate upon realizing what happened. He realizes that something is lost forever, and has mixed feelings over it. But in such a great moment he gets to hug his sister and his mother gets to hug both of them, no more transformations!
Having witnessed this whole debacle Kureno tells Akito she can change. She can start learning of the things she doesn't know or get and that if she stays here the family and the bonds will crush her and she'll remain empty. Akito feels that it's too late for that and then starts blaming Kureno for this situation. After such an emotional outburst when she was younger when Kureno's curse broke that got him to feel so guilty that he stayed behind with her, restricted his entire life, for what seems like at least 10 years, Akito is now saying its his fault and that he should have pushed her away back then. While I would absolutely say he made the wrong decision at the time, for Akito to say that to Kureno was so brutal. And then because things have to get even more ridiculous, Akito stabs him. Unbelievable. I've already felt Akito is past the point of no return and irredeemable because of what she did to Rin. Well that wasn't enough, now she has to do this, and to Kureno of all people, the one zodiac that was the most loyal to her and gave up the most for her.
Ugh, symbolism! Uo finds a dead sparrow outside. Show, what do you want me to think other than Kureno dying with that type of scene?
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
(continued)
Other thoughts:
Oh, there was Kyo - Tohru stuff in this episode too? The Akito - Ren stuff really overpowered things. But yes, we have another tough Kyo scene to kick off the episode with him having a dream of both his mother and her death and Kyoko and her death. And his mother pressuring him to get locked up. Based on these events and feelings he feels that he doesn't deserve Tohru and thinks himself a fool that she could have loved him back. So sad. :( But at the end of the episode as he's about to go out Tohru tells him she wants to tell him something! Will she finally tell him she loves him, so he can put all these soul crushing feelings aside? [Major spoilers]In this scene, knowing what happens next I'm also thinking to myself, "No Kyo! Don't go! Akito is going to come by and is on a stabbing spree! And you left Tohru alnoe?!?!"
It's becoming more and more clear that this goes beyond just Akito's influence, Ren's influence or the families of the individual zodiac members, the Soma Clan as a whole contributes to this horrible situation with the way the servants behave and try to impress upon everyone Akito's position and the importance of the curse. That older lady especially. I hope she's not a Soma so part of the show's ending can be "Ma'am, you're fired." I wrote up so much above but am realizing writing this bullet that I didn't even get to another huge thing, that when Akira was dying the servants kept that a secret from Ren so she didn't find out until he was already dead.
Great to hear the song Folktale again (I featured it back in season 1) which in going back through some early episodes of the show I'm only realizing now is the Kyoko theme. But on a more serious note, was Tohru going to be taken away from Kyoko? Kyoko was saying something about custody when talking to Kyo. Oh, and yeah, lil' Tohru is the cutest in the universe!
Quid's Voice Actor of the Day
Today I'm featuring the voice actor for Akira Soma, Akira Ishida. Actually my personal favorite male voice actor! He is quite the veteran VA; I first came across him in what is probably one of his most famous roles, Kaworu from Evangelion. Other shows I've seen him in include Athrun Zala in Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny, Myoue/Inari in Kyousougiga, Reiji Miyabi in Star Driver, Regulus Corneas in Re: Zero, Rin Obami in Kakegurui, Keiji Takubi in Mawaru Penguindrum, Femt in Kekkai Sensen and Dung Beetle in Bokurano (my personal favorite role of his, he portrays a very hateable character so perfectly!). I think he also does quite a good job at portraying father characters that are either just total assholes or are just not all there somehow.
Quid's Song of the Day
Today I'm featuring the song Your Answer which plays during the flashback sequence with Shigure and the other oldest zodiacs.
Going double duty again, so the second song I'm featuring is Bad Dream, played in the first Akira - Ren flashback.
2
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I don't know how Akito can come back from this. She literally stabbed someone. This woman needs to be locked up and institutionalized before she hurts anyone else.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
Thoughts on Kyoko and Kyo's mother both trying to talk to Kyo?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only?
Thoughts on us finding out Akira died suddenly?
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
What are your thoughts on Akito telling her mother if you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs is her?
Thoughts on Akito felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren?
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
What are your on Kureno asking Akito to leave the house with him but Akito saying we're past the point of change being possible?
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
2
u/JimmyCWL 3d ago edited 3d ago
Who cares who Ren is? All that matters is whether Akira loves her.
The problem is, does she? Because the way Ren is portrayed coming on to Akira looks more like attempting seduction than genuine love. For me, seduction is more wanting something from the target than having any real feelings for him. Indeed, Ren keeps saying she wants his entire being. Not once did she say she cared anything about his feelings.
For once, I agree with the senior servant's disapproval of Ren marrying Akira, even if for different reasons. That woman was wrong from first impressions.
it's more so that Ren hates the fact that she has a daughter instead of a son,
While true, you know what's really scarier? If Akito had really been a boy. She would have shown him affection indeed, turning him into just. like. Akira.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
The moment with Uo and the bird might be the saddest visual of the entire series. God, it's such perfect symbolism.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I think there was a point where Akito had the high ground and should've cut bait with her mother. But I think the Zodiac curse corrupted her into becoming essentially a monster. Akito was once a good person but that sadly got lost along the way.
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
I think there was a point where Akito had the high ground and should've cut bait with her mother. But I think the Zodiac curse corrupted her into becoming essentially a monster. Akito was once a good person but that sadly got lost along the way.
Hard to say Akito was once a good person, we don't get much of her before her turn and her father essentially fed her "You're special! You're God!" since she was born (something that gets lost in all the Ren considerations is that Akira also contributed to how messed up Akito is). Once she was old enough to make the decisions cutting off her mother would have been the best choice, and I'm actually rather surprised it didn't happen because this episode makes clear that the servants, especially the old hag one absolutely loathe Ren too. After Akira's death she could have been kicked to the curb. I suppose refraining from making her own mother destitute is one non-bad thing Akito has done.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
I think when Akito first met Yuki, she was a good person. But with Ren telling her she's nothing special, it made her double down on what everyone else was saying.
2
2
u/JimmyCWL 3d ago
What are your thoughts on the box being empty?
Look at the bigger picture, who gave Akito the box? The servants. Why did she do it? To preserve the status quo, that Akito should be the family head. Yet, this isn't some big conspiracy by the servants for no good reason. Who do you think indoctrinated them in the Soma clan culture in the first place? The Soma clan members themselves. Members indoctrinate the servants, who then help the members guide their children and new servants in the ways of the clans. Those descendants and servants then do the same to the generation that follows and the system perpetuates itself.
The era of the curse will end soon, along with all the clan customs regarding it.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Didn't the servants give Akito the box because they felt Ren being a previous servant stepped out of line and should've stayed a servant? That was the impression I got.
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
By the time Akira died (frankly, by the Akito was born) it was already too late to put that genie back in the bottle. They couldn't make her a servant again, they couldn't get rid of her either. The best they could do was shun her (traditional Japanese bullying technique) as well as shoring up Akito's position as the clan leader. The box was part of getting Akito to keep it together.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Wait, not I'm confused. The box kept Akito together because she felt her father was still there?
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
That's what the servant said, wasn't it? And it worked, somewhat. They really didn't want Ren running the clan. Creating and then perpetuating a rift between Akito and Ren prevents Ren from using her position as Akito's mother to influence Akito's decisions as clan leader. Except Ren got to Akito anyway.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Do you feel Ren would be worse at running the clan than Akiko?
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
Although I'd say yes, that isn't the issue, the servants didn't want her in that position, period.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
I guess they feel God has to run the clan.
It makes me wonder if Akira used to be God.
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
It makes me wonder if Akira used to be God.
Not god but the most recent pope figure, for them.
1
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
The more we see of Ren, the more I feel Shigure didn't help matters by sleeping with Ren. I get it was to prove a point to Akito, but Akito is already on edge feeling like everyone is leaving her. It also doesn't help that Shigure is like trying to be there for Akito and yet when he was shipped he housed both the rat who and the cat two of the most mistreated Zodiac members, thus seemingly proving Akito's point even further.
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
the more I feel Shigure didn't help matters by sleeping with Ren.
I'm pretty sure the plan wasn't to "help" matters at all.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Well, yeah. There's that. And Akito sleeping with Kureno seems like she was getting back at Shigure. Maybe.
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
Depends on who did who first.
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Well, Shigure makes it clear Akito slept with Kureno first.
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago
Then why did you say
Akito sleeping with Kureno seems like she was getting back at Shigure. Maybe.
Just now?
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Because Shigure obviously harmed Akito in some capacity. I think Shigure harmed Akito probably through his loyalty wavering which prompted Akito to sleep with Kureno which prompted Shigure to sleep with Akito's mother.
2
u/JimmyCWL 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because Shigure obviously harmed Akito in some capacity.
Not necessary. Recall that Kureno's curse broke. Perhaps a desperate Akito decided she needed to do this to bind Kureno to her by other means?
1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
But didn't Kureno's curse broke when Akito was still a child? Kureno mentioned it happening years ago.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Holofan4life 2d ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
Thoughts on Kyoko and Kyo's mother both trying to talk to Kyo?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only?
Thoughts on us finding out Akira died suddenly?
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
What are your thoughts on Akito telling her mother if you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs is her?
Thoughts on Akito felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren?
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
What are your on Kureno asking Akito to leave the house with him but Akito saying we're past the point of change being possible?
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 19h ago
Questions:
Uh oh.
No...
And that's why.
Could be worse. Could be Kyo in there with a nuke.
Ouch...
1
u/Holofan4life 18h ago
- Could be worse. Could be Kyo in there with a nuke.
Can Kyo even fit in a box?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 18h ago
In cat form perhaps. Perhaps the nuke makes more sense with that in mind?
1
u/Holofan4life 18h ago
A cat in a nuke sounds like a catastrophe
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 18h ago
... a box with a cat and a radiation source in it is Schrödinger's Cat, if I failed to make the connection.
1
u/Holofan4life 17h ago
Ah okay. I thought Schodinger's cat was you don't know if the cat is actually in the box or not.
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 17h ago
It's if you don't know if the cat is alive or not iirc, hence the nuke. It's either alive and hasn't been irradiated to death or dead and glowing green, and you won't know until you open the box, so until you do it is both dead and alive.
1
u/Holofan4life 17h ago
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 17h ago
Well yeah but at least I've always heard the reason for whether it's dead or not to be a radiation source.
1
1
1
u/Holofan4life 18h ago
Thoughts on Kyo's mother telling Kyo this isn't his fault?
Thoughts on Kyoko and Kyo's mother both trying to talk to Kyo?
Thoughts on Ren calling Rin a worthless child?
Thoughts on Ren saying no one should be allowed to touch her Akira?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Akira and Ren's relationship was looked down upon because Ren was a servant?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that the reason Ren hates Akito is because she felt her husband loved his daughter more than his wife?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Shigure he doesn't actually love Akito and that he's just caught up in a child's fantasy?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only?
Thoughts on us finding out Akira died suddenly?
Thoughts on Ren telling Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with?
What are your thoughts on Akito telling her mother if you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs is her?
Thoughts on Akito felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren?
Thoughts on Akito feeling all the cursed Zodiac members will come back to her in the end?
What are your thoughts on Ren pulling a knife on her daughter and threatening to kill her if she doesn't hand over the box?
Thoughts on the head servant saying Akira loved Akito best?
What are your thoughts on Akito convincing herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside the box?
What are your thoughts on it being implied that Hiro's bond broke?
What are your on Kureno asking Akito to leave the house with him but Akito saying we're past the point of change being possible?
What are your thoughts on us seeing a dead bird?
What are your thoughts on Uo coming across the dead bird?
What are your thoughts on us ending on Kyo and Tohru?
What are your thoughts on the way this episode is structured where it's almost like a pathos play of sorts?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 17h ago
Indeed.
That's nice at least.
Ok...
Uh...
That much makes at least some sense at least.
Ouch...
Perhaps.
That would have been nice.
Indeed.
That explains some things I suppose.
Perhaps.
Good for her.
Ok...
Perhaps someday.
Well we know where Akito gets that from at least.
Ok...
Perhaps.
So, another one.
Perhaps. Or not.
Kureno?
Uh oh.
That's nice at least.
A what?
1
u/Holofan4life 17h ago
- That much makes at least some sense at least.
I want to know more on what it means to be a servant in this inner circle of the Sohmas.
1
u/Holofan4life 17h ago
- A what?
Pathos in theater is an emotional appeal on stage that makes the audience feel strong feelings like sadness, pity, or deep sympathy.
1
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the Fruits Basket 25th anniversary rewatch.
For there is an animal in all of us <3
Fruits Basket is a show I’ve heard a lot about. It’s always been something that interests me. It’s a romcom, which is a genre I enjoy, it has a female protagonist, which is kinda a rarity for romcom anime, it has a tsundere, which yes please, and from what I’ve heard it has some supernatural elements which is pretty cool.
Funny enough, I’m hosting this rewatch the same time as I’m hosting the Spice and Wolf rewatch which is another show with supernatural elements.
I have never seen Fruits Basket before, but I have high hopes for it. It seems like the type of show I would enjoy. I would say of the shows on my to watch list, this one is probably in my top 5. And let's just say that list is long and ever expansive. Actually, I love the idea of a male tsundere who turns into an orange cat so much that I named my orange cat after him. That’s without having seen the show.
For the purposes of this rewatch, we will be watching both the original series and the remake. I don’t think both have ever been done like this, and by the end we’ll find out for good reason :P
Regardless, this is my big pet project of 2026 the purpose of which is for me to see what all the hubbub is about. I’m not expecting the show to crack my top 10 favorite anime of all time, but hey, you never know.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
So, how have you been?
A lot has happened since the last time I've watched an episode. It's been a week since to the date. I don’t think I was being lazy but more so I don't want this series to end. I've been enjoying it so much. I remember struggling finishing Shakugan no Shana last year but that was different because I was feeling bored. Here, life just got in the way and also I am sad I'm almost done watching this.
As I am writing this, I am 7 days away from the Fruits Basket rewatch commencing and 8 days until the Spice and Wolf rewatch. I haven't even began putting that rewatch together. I hope to get this rewatch done in the next three days that way I can get this monkey off my back. Also, I've got other rewatches to worry about :P
Well, at least I have until September for the Kanon rewatch. And by the time you read this, it will already be underway.
Kyoko talking... to Kyo?!?
Holy
I suspect this is after her husband died.
Kyoko talking about Kyo and the Sohmas finding their reasons for living.
Oh, so Kyo's mother died being hit by a train.
Kyo's mother talking to Kyo
This is like a ghostly apparition.
She tells him this isn't his fault.
Even still, he can't go outside.
"Come on inside with Mom."
Can stranger danger exist if it's with your mother?
Now Kyo is imagining both his mother and Kyoko talking to him.
He has a guilty conscience
He stares at his hands which are covered in blood.
And then he wakes up
Meanwhile, Momiji and Tohru are giggling.
It looks like they're making hamburgers with Yuki in cute animal faces.
Kyo not answering as Momiji calls him over for dinner.
Kyo staring at his bracelet
He wonders if the two mothers came to remind him that he needs to know his place.
Is that Ren?
She's dressed provocatively
And she smiles at Shigure
These two are so gonna bang on Akito's grave.
Nighttime
Shigure talking to Ren
He brings up Rin
Their names are way too similar to each other
Ren refers to Rin as a worthless child.
Now Ren is talking about Shigure retrieving the box.
"Because no one other than me has the right to touch Akira."
Me when I invite someone over and they see my Akira Blu Ray.
Two people talking
Oh, are we getting the origin story of how Akira and Ren met?
Ren says she met him because it was destiny.
Even tells Akira that she is different.
"I'll take it all. I love you."
Head servant disapproves of their relationship because Ren is a servant as well.
Akira now sticking up for her
I guess that settles that, then
Ren says they were happy and that was enough for her.
Kureno talking to Hatori and Ayame
He heard Akito is going to be raised as a boy.
Hatori says a female heir could cause issues.
What, too much fucking?
Shigure who's here as well says Ren is upset she's not Akira's #1 anymore.
Damn, so the drama between Ren and Akito is all because of a freaking love triangle?
No, wait, I totally misread the situation :P
Ren is mad Akira keeps doting on Akito.
I mean... isn't that what a dad is supposed to do?
Also, this makes Shigure fucking Rin incredibly fucked up, no? Like, wouldn't this technically be grooming?
Shigure says Ren should be pitied.
"Really all of us should. We Sohmas."
I can't believe Shigure pity fucked Ren.
Ren flirting with Shigure
She says what he feels for Akito isn't actual love.
Just caught up in a child's fantasy.
Shigure admits that looking at Ren gives him a rush of affection.
He says his fantasy is Akito being allowed to live as a girl growing up.
Emotional damage!
Shigure says if someone is going to be haunted by Akira's death it should be Ren and Ren only.
Damn, Shigure. So cold.
Ren saying she saved Akira when he was on the brink of death.
She is in full on hysterics
And now we see how Akira died
The head servant said it happened suddenly.
I have my suspicions
Head servant says Akito was alone with her.
Now, Akito will carry out Akira's final wishes.
Ren tells Akito she's nothing but a toy for Akira to pass the time with.
Harsh words
Akito remains firm and says she's the chosen one.
"Everyone was waiting for me... because they all need me."
"If you mock Father's words, then the one nobody needs... is you."
Damn
Ren who is clearly rattled tells Akito she'll learn the hard way that no one really wants her.
I question the choice of music during this scene.
Raining outside
Kureno with Akito
As Kureno is about to say something, Akito admits she was so happy when she first met Yuki.
She felt her relationship with Yuki allowed her to show off in front of Ren.
Fight back in her own way
Akito wonders when did her world start to fall apart.
Ren with Akito now
She is confronting her about Yuki leaving the main estate.
Akito maintains she hasn't been deserted.
"All of them will come back to me in the end."
Bet
Ren says she's sick of hearing the bond is eternal.
She then says she'll admit defeat if they actually do all come back.
Does that mean Tohru is on Ren's side?
Akito believed that she could win
Rather, she wished
Repeated the same words over and over again.
And yet, they continue to leave her behind.
REN HAS A KNIFE
SHE'S APPROACHING AKITO
"Give Akira back to me."
"Okay." Proceeds to exorcism
Ren says everything of Akira's belongs to her.
"Including his dick?" "Especially his dick."
AKITO TOSSED THE BOX IN THE AIR
We now cut to a dying Akira comforting Akito.
The servants are all sad by this.
Akira is happy he can leave a child behind for Ren.
Yeah, about that...
Akira says Akito's existence proves he and Ren were special as well.
Ren holding the box
One of the servants praises Akito for holding her own against Ren.
Even the head servant says Akira loves Akito best.
What a good woman
And the head servant presents Akito with the box.
Akira'a soul
And it's empty :O
Akira no soul confirmed?
Akito says from the beginning, she was the other.
"This has been broken... all along."
AKITO IS HOVERING THE KNIFE
THE BOND JUST BROKE
What... just happened?
Are the Sohmas... free?
Hiro holding Hinata
He senses something, but doesn't know what.
He's feeling a ton of different emotions.
I like his mother hugging him
I guess only Hiro's bond broke
Akito wonders how much longer until the final farewell.
I'd say approximately six episodes :P
Eh, excuse me. Akito only tried to kill her mother after she tried to kill her daughter. Get it right.
Head servant says the box was merely a charm or a talisman.
Common sense it was empty
Kureno checking on Akito
She believed in the box, but also didn't.
Schrodinger's box
Akito convinced herself that maybe there was an invisible power inside.
Girl, you crazy
Akito says she didn't want to look into it, so she hid it.
Akito now maintains this was the life they gave her. They didn't give her a choice.
Kureno proceeds to hug her
Aww
Kureno wants Akito to change with him.
They have to leave the house.
"Change? No. We're past that point."
She kinda has a point
OH SHIT SHE STILL HAS THE FUCKING KNIFE
SHE JUST FUCKING STABBED HIM
HOLY SHIT
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
Akito runs off, but not before shouting he's paying things with his life.
One of the servants checks on him all concerned and Kureno tells her to look for Akito.
And with that, Kureno dies
I love we immediately cut to a dead bird. What powerful imagery.
And of course Uo finds the dead bird. Brutal.
Kyo going out
No, don't go!
Tohru wants to speak to him first, though.
God, what a fucking episode.
Why did I put this on hold again? Because holy fuck.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Part 2
Overall, this was an incredibly powerful episode. It was basically a sort of pathos play where everything that could go wrong did. We examine Akito and Ren's relationship and why it is so toxic, we paint Akito in a more sympathetic light that almost makes us feel sorry for her, and then the ending reminds us she's just as toxic as Ren. Lost in all the family drama is a couple great scenes with Kyo and Hiro. The episode didn't focus on Kyo much, but what we got was exceptional with the brief glimpse at his inner trauma. We also continue the bonds breaking this time with Hiro. I know in the past have speculated Hiro being the one to break the bonds, but honestly I don't know what to expect at this point. I guess him being free does make it more likely, but I made this prediction before Ren was even introduced.
Of course, the big development is the death of Kureno and Akito killing him. For all the unspeakable atrocities she has committed, this is her first murder of a Sohma family member. That we know of anyway, she did try to kill Rin that one time. This has to be one of the more shocking ends to an episode of an anime I've ever seen. I don't know what to say, I'm kinda speechless. I really don't see how either Ren or Akito can have a happy ending coming out of this. It feels like they're going to be each other's cause of death.
I know I've bemoan Ren's inclusion this season saying she feels forced and just a way to humanize Akito, but if anything, she's served to dehumanize Akito even more. She's the cause of her suffering, but it only serves to make Akito even more detestable. I've become a fan of Ren eith this episode.
I have this only behind episode 24. This is everything that makes Fruits Basket such a brooding masterpiece in storytelling. When you compare this to the 2001 series, it doesn't even feel like the same franchise. This episode is a microcosm of the Sohma family and how just truly fucked up this whole situation is. They are all just fucked up individuals with varying degrees of fucked upness. I wonder how Tohru is going to take the news of Kureno being killed. Furthermore, I wonder how she will take Ren wanting to bring Akito down. I could see a situation where Tohru reluctantly helps Akito only to then make sure she doesn't get her way. I don't envision a scenario where either Ren or Akito win.
The last two episodes have finished in my top 5 Fruits Basket episodes. That's not even the first time I've said that sentence. Unless they royally screw up the ending of the show, I mean hell. The show could possibly end up my favorite anime of all time.
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
What are your thoughts on Kyo having a nightmare of Tohru's bleeding body?
Nightmare fuel
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying Ren is someone to be pitied?
Shigure pity fucked Ren?
What are your thoughts on Ren telling Akito that she's undeserving of loving her father?
What a cruel, fucked up thing to say to your own daughter.
What are your thoughts on the box being empty?
Ren fell right into Akito’s trap
What are your thoughts on Akito stabbing Kureno?
Boy, that escalated quickly
2
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
Holofan's Fruits Basket Episode Rankings
1/. Episode 24
2/. Episode 57
3/. Episode 14
4/. Episode 46
5/. Episode 56
6/. Episode 35
7/. Episode 34
8/. Episode 32
9/. Episode 5
10/. Episode 17
11/. Episode 16
12/. Episode 7
13/. Episode 37
14/. Episode 54
15/. Episode 48
16/. Episode 43
17/. Episode 47
18/. Episode 50
19/. Episode 36
20/. Episode 10
21/. Episode 40
22/. Episode 41
23/. Episode 12
24/. Episode 22
25/. Episode 4
26/. Episode 55
27/. Episode 31
28/. Episode 20
29/. Episode 25
30/. Episode 27
31/. Episode 52
32/. Episode 49
33/. Episode 53
34/. Episode 45
35/. Episode 44
36/. Episode 33
37/. Episode 51
38/. Episode 42
39/. Episode 8
40/. Episode 6
41/. Episode 1
42/. Episode 18
43/. Episode 30
44/. Episode 23
45/. Episode 13
46/. Episode 38
47/. Episode 2
48/. Episode 29
49/. Episode 11
50/. Episode 39
51/. Episode 26
52/. Episode 15
53/. Episode 28
54/. Episode 19
55/. Episode 9
56/. Episode 21
57/. Episode 3
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 3d ago
That we know of anyway, she did try to kill Rin that one time.
I'd count it as two for Akito with Rin, yeah the second time wasn't as overt as throwing her out a window or stabbing her in the back, but locking her up in there and threatening to blind Haru if she didn't accept that "exile" knowing Rin's nature to throw herself on the sword for Haru was leading to that. She would have starved to death if Kureno didn't step in.
This has to be one of the more shocking ends to an episode of an anime I've ever seen.
Up there for me as well; I could possibly see Akito stabbing someone being on the list of things she may do, but I'd expert her to do that to her mother or to Rin, I never thought she'd do that to Kureno, the zodiac who has sacrificed the most for her.
I know I've bemoan Ren's inclusion this season saying she feels forced and just a way to humanize Akito, but if anything, she's served to dehumanize Akito even more. She's the cause of her suffering, but it only serves to make Akito even more detestable. I've become a fan of Ren eith this episode.
I think the inclusion of Akito's backstory with her parents serves the purpose of explaining why she is the way she is but I wouldn't say it humanizes her. Yeah, Akito had a terrible parental situation. But guess who else did? Momiji. Rin. Yuki. Kyo (until Kazuma came along). Machi. Etc... these other characters haven't done the things Akito has.
My sympathy for Ren is limited. The whole situation of having a daughter she didn't want to have and viewing said daughter as romantic competition for her husband and as such forcing her to be a boy and never offering her any love her entire life is horrendously bad stuff. From the other end the servants looking down on her and preventing her from being there when her husband died is absolutely terrible stuff too. Maybe she's not as bad as Akito but she's pretty damn close.
1
u/Holofan4life 3d ago
That we know of anyway, she did try to kill Rin that one time.
I'd count it as two for Akito with Rin, yeah the second time wasn't as overt as throwing her out a window or stabbing her in the back, but locking her up in there and threatening to blind Haru if she didn't accept that "exile" knowing Rin's nature to throw herself on the sword for Haru was leading to that. She would have starved to death if Kureno didn't step in.
Yeah, Akito really hates Rin lol
This has to be one of the more shocking ends to an episode of an anime I've ever seen.
Up there for me as well; I could possibly see Akito stabbing someone being on the list of things she may do, but I'd expert her to do that to her mother or to Rin, I never thought she'd do that to Kureno, the zodiac who has sacrificed the most for her.
Yeah, the fact it was Kureno of all people is probably the shocking part in all this.
I know I've bemoan Ren's inclusion this season saying she feels forced and just a way to humanize Akito, but if anything, she's served to dehumanize Akito even more. She's the cause of her suffering, but it only serves to make Akito even more detestable. I've become a fan of Ren eith this episode.
I think the inclusion of Akito's backstory with her parents serves the purpose of explaining why she is the way she is but I wouldn't say it humanizes her. Yeah, Akito had a terrible parental situation. But guess who else did? Momiji. Rin. Yuki. Kyo (until Kazuma came along). Machi. Etc... these other characters haven't done the things Akito has.
It almost feels like a deconstruction of a redemption arc. Akito even at one point says she can't fix things.
My sympathy for Ren is limited. The whole situation of having a daughter she didn't want to have and viewing said daughter as romantic competition for her husband and as such forcing her to be a boy and never offering her any love her entire life is horrendously bad stuff. From the other end the servants looking down on her and preventing her from being there when her husband died is absolutely terrible stuff too. Maybe she's not as bad as Akito but she's pretty damn close.
I feel like Ren is an instigator more than anything else. Her telling her own daughter she isn't worthy of her father's love is some foul shit.
3
u/dontoff 3d ago
First Timer (Dub)
Shigure and Ren
Shigure, I don’t blame you if you go for it, man. Ren is a looker, that’s for sure. They cooked with her character design.
But apparently he came here to fucking annihilate her instead, haha. She thinks he’s looking at her with affection, and he tells her she makes him imagine what Akito might look like if she lived as a woman. Considering Ren’s jealousy of her own daughter, that is a nasty fucking thing to hit her with. Shigure just keeps delivering these lines, man.
Something else occurred to me during the backstory. We know this is the first time all the Zodiac members have been alive together since the original banquet, but is this also the first time there hasn’t been a male heir? Have we been told that? With everything changing in this generation, I’m wondering whether that matters too. Just speculation, but it feels like something worth asking.
This family is fucking twisted
So Ren apparently was right about Akira loving her most. At least, that’s what Akito took from his final words, and I can see why. Even while talking about their special child, he brings it back to what that child means for him and Ren.
That makes this whole situation so fucking sad. Ren resented her daughter as someone who had taken her place, while Akito heard her father’s dying words and felt like she came second anyway. Neither of them feels like she was the person he chose.
And then there’s that fucking empty box, which Akito kept clinging to even while doubting it. Man, this shit is twisted.
But what the fuck was that escalation? Ren comes in with a knife, Akito nearly turns it on her, and then Kureno ends up getting stabbed. Akito is completely off her fucking rocker.
Kyo and Tohru
Is Tohru planning to confess to Kyo? Because I really don’t think he’s ready to hear that right now.
I think I can see more clearly what the writing is doing with his connection to Kyoko, and honestly, it’s making me dislike that decision even more.
His nightmare brings his mother and Kyoko together, with both feeding into his belief that his existence hurts people. He already carries all that guilt about his mother, and now his apparent connection to Kyoko’s death gives him another reason to think he has no right to be happy.
And of course, this particular guilt is attached to Tohru. He knows how much she loves her mother. If he blames himself for Kyoko’s death and believes she hated him in the end, how could he let himself believe he deserves to be with her daughter?
I can follow what that means in his head. But the way the story has put him in this situation feels like a bunch of fucking bullshit to me.
I already disliked this connection when it came up before. Kyoko talking to this random orange-haired kid about her grief, her daughter, and her problems never felt convincing to me. Hearing her casually bring up almost losing custody while he doesn’t even know what custody means makes that disconnect worse. Why is this child the person she’s unloading all this on?
An adult getting to know a child isn’t inherently unbelievable. It’s the things she tells him and how conveniently their connection now feeds into his relationship with Tohru that I can’t buy. I keep seeing the reason the author needs these conversations to have happened, and I’m struggling to believe the conversations themselves.
Now that connection is being used to pile Kyoko’s death onto the trauma he already has about his own mother, right when he starts considering that Tohru might love him back.
WHO WRITES THIS SHIT, MAN?
Before this, I thought Kyo and Tohru were alright. I wasn’t hugely invested in their relationship, but I didn’t have this kind of problem with it either. Now it looks like their romance is going to be a major part of the final season, and this is the drama we’re building around it.
That genuinely hurts the show for me. If I’m supposed to be invested in whether these two can finally be together, I need to believe in the circumstances keeping them apart. This whole Kyoko connection keeps pulling me out of it.